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f13.net General Forums => Gaming => Topic started by: sinij on September 29, 2010, 06:35:50 PM



Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on September 29, 2010, 06:35:50 PM
What? RTFM?!!

/RAGEQUIT

What manual? It doesn't have one. There is DVD with Steam install and tech map. So is there a way to play this offline or not?


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Lantyssa on September 29, 2010, 06:37:41 PM
No.  They've pre-banned you.  Return the disk.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Paelos on September 29, 2010, 07:19:26 PM
What? RTFM?!!

/RAGEQUIT

What manual? It doesn't have one. There is DVD with Steam install and tech map. So is there a way to play this offline or not?

I guess me saying yes to that same question 5 posts ago didn't get the job done. Stop being a moron.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on September 29, 2010, 07:26:36 PM
Here is what I did after I read your "yes".

1. Run install again, this time when it realized Steam was already installed it went to ask me if I want to install Civ5. It didn't do it first time, only installed Steam. There also no obvious "install Civ5" setup file or option on the DVD, but looking at used space (about 3Gig) I knew Civ5 files are hiding somewhere.

2. Went through install, welcome FuckYouSteam1234 (FuckYouSteam was already taken, so was FuckYouSteam1, 2 and 3), newest "customer". Accepted all meaningless and non-binding agreements.

3. Activated Civ5 by typing code from popup (why do we need Steam for this?!)

4. Watched cool intro, quit the game. Browsed around Steam looking for "enable offline" option. Didn't find it.

5. Created desktop shortcut for Civ5 DX11.

6. Uninstalled Steam, it also uninstalled Civ5 without asking me. Assholes.

Do tell me where I went wrong.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on September 29, 2010, 07:35:54 PM
Steam->Go offline :oh_i_see:


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Paelos on September 29, 2010, 08:08:52 PM
Steam->Go offline :oh_i_see:

Yeah, I mean it's really in the first menu on the top left. Your reaction to this is akin to uninstalling Word because YOU COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO FUCKING SAVE RAAAAAAAAAWR!


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on September 29, 2010, 08:42:56 PM
I can understand raging if you buy f.ex assassin's creed 2 and end up being unable to play because your internet's down, but steam? If we ignore the whole euro pricing thingie, and a few minor things like how you can't sell games after you're done with them if you so choose (who does that anyways? but it would be nice to have the option) etc, then I'd say steam is pretty much perfect.

Well, GOG is probably absolutely perfect since there's no DRM there whatsoever, but good fucking luck in getting new games to go with them.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Miasma on September 29, 2010, 09:37:25 PM
It's okay sinij, I used to hate Steam and was aghast that people used it too.  But then I gave in, and all the hatred and indignation slowly flowed out of me as my library grew.  In the PC gaming apocalypse it's much more enjoyable to be one of the steam zombies than one of the handful of survivor hold-outs valiantly fighting against the system, trust me.

One of us.  One of us.  One of us.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Lantyssa on September 29, 2010, 10:02:21 PM
Sinij got PK'd and corpse looted by Steam.  Hahahahahaha.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Sjofn on September 30, 2010, 12:42:40 AM
Steam killed him in an RvR zone.  :ye_gods:


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Wasted on September 30, 2010, 01:09:54 AM


6. Uninstalled Steam, it also uninstalled Civ5 without asking me. Assholes.


That is where you went wrong.

Obviously. 

Though I suspect you are being deliberately stubborn to prove your point (you don't want steam) I'll indulge you.

http://www.2kgames.com/civ5/support/#systemreqs

relevant quote

Quote
Sid Meierís Civilization V is powered through Steam, an online game platform and distributor. Steam allows for automated updates, easy access to DLC, and a quick way to join up with your friends for Multiplayer games.

Steam is required to play Sid Meierís Civilization V, and an internet connection will be required only when you first run the game. See the Installation section for more details, or visit http://store.steampowered.com/ for more information about the service.



Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: ffc on September 30, 2010, 03:48:53 AM
...like how you can't sell games after you're done with them if you so choose (who does that anyways? but it would be nice to have the option)...

I generally like to get rid of games after I'm done playing them but I have slowly come to terms with not being able to do that for much longer.

As for Steam's one-time online activation for Civ, it's pretty benign compared to other DRM schemes (e.g., Settlers 7).


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on September 30, 2010, 07:13:27 AM
I am not interested in changing my ways and not interested in giving Steam another chance. They destroyed my CS and this is very much unforgivable sin in my book.

There is absolutely no reason why single player Civ5 ever needs online access after activation. I am not interested in multplayer, I am also not interested in logging in every time I want to play. I am also not interested in Steam riding in the background when I am not playing any games. Steam *has to be* disabled, taking it offline implies that I first log in, then take it into offline mode then it denying me ability to play if I don't happen to have internet connection and haven't logged in in a while.

For example I don't mind Impulse, you don't have to use it if you don't want to past activation - you can go directly to playing game without ever dealing with it.



Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Reg on September 30, 2010, 07:21:37 AM
I understand your feelings and I even agree. But I expect that Steam is going to be the DRM of choice for a lot of popular upcoming PC games. You either need to get over your aversion or not play them. Or just pirate them I guess.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Murgos on September 30, 2010, 08:02:18 AM
There is absolutely no reason why single player Civ5 ever needs online access after activation.

I like playing games on my PC, I like the ease of use and features of steam.  Heck, the unified installer/patching infrastructure alone is worth a heck of a lot more hassle than steam makes and they provide so much more.  Companies also like steam because it cuts out a lot of overhead and provides them a measure of protection from the depredations of piracy. It's a win-win.

Steam, and similar services, are some of what makes PC gaming continue to be viable (even preferred to some extent) even with bi-annual pronouncements of the 'death of PC gaming'.

Enjoy the 20th century Luddite, I'm moving on.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Malakili on September 30, 2010, 08:07:15 AM
I am not interested in changing my ways


Ok, sucks for you then.  Seriously, most of us had this crisis 5 years ago, and then realized that it actually improved out gaming experience significantly.   If it makes you feel smugly superior not to have Steam installed, more power to you.  Meanwhile, I'll be enjoying my minimally intrusive (In fact, far less intrusive than many games that don't require it) PC gaming.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on September 30, 2010, 08:27:59 AM
I am not interested in changing my ways and not interested in giving Steam another chance. They destroyed my CS and this is very much unforgivable sin in my book.

There is absolutely no reason why single player Civ5 ever needs online access after activation. I am not interested in multplayer, I am also not interested in logging in every time I want to play. I am also not interested in Steam riding in the background when I am not playing any games. Steam *has to be* disabled, taking it offline implies that I first log in, then take it into offline mode then it denying me ability to play if I don't happen to have internet connection and haven't logged in in a while.

For example I don't mind Impulse, you don't have to use it if you don't want to past activation - you can go directly to playing game without ever dealing with it.

I'm probably the one that's been railing the hardest against DRM the past few months, but I have to admit that Steam (and similar services) is probably just the thing to help PC gaming through the latest "zomg piwatez iz killing our pwofitz" craze (it certainly isn't the fact the costs have spiralled).

I've had one bad experience with steam, and that was at a LAN party. I downloaded the game at home, thinking that was sufficient, packed the computer down and drove to the LAN party, where the internet was down. I was completely unable to start the game, because no matter what I did, the game hadn't downloaded that final piece or checked for updates or whatever because I hadn't started the game the first time after I downloaded it. If I'd done that, I would've been fine.

Another time I lost internet for a full week, but I was still able to play all the games I had downloaded and started at least once, by just setting steam into offline mode. I haven't seen anything about this being time-limited, just that you have to authenticate and update the game before going into offline mode and you should be fine.

Now, having said that, I've found steam to be the best content delivery and maintenance platform I've used. Impulse isn't bad, but it's lacking somewhat in content compared to steam, and I haven't tried out the other alternatives, but I've bought so many small games by impulse while browsing around on steam, games I probably never would've bought if I were just browsing in a store. This is a good thing.

It's also way less obtrusive and way more flexible/forgiving than that piss-poor attempt at DRM which Ubisoft and EA came up with, and if I were to choose between EA/Ubisoft's way, and steam, I'll choose steam any day. I do not trust Ubisoft/EA to actually put money into supporting gamers playing "old" games, whereas I'd put much more trust into Steam doing that (since that's the core of their business model).

And as Numtini mentions, the whole "oh god where did that disc go" problem is gone. I've put up with that since that's what I saw as a valid tradeoff against piracy, but there's been a lot of times where I feel like playing a specific game, but I end up not bothering because the disc isn't in the drive and isn't on my desk at the time.

I only hope there'll be more high-quality providers to give steam some competition.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Paelos on September 30, 2010, 09:10:02 AM
I've switched computers during my Steam buying, and reloading my entire system has been a breeze due to Steam's library. I just set the games to download, walk away for a day, and come back with my entire system ready to play.

And since Sinij is still being such a whiner about it: Here's Steams Support page on exactly how to set offline mode for all your games. (https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-agcb-2555)

Quote
Offline Mode allows you to play games through Steam without reconnecting to the Steam Network every time you wish to play - this is particularly useful if you do not plan on playing over the internet and would prefer not to download new updates for your single-player games.

Welcome to the jungle, baby. Try Google next time before you flip your shit.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on September 30, 2010, 09:14:47 AM
It doesn't specify that you won't ever have to reconnect, but I'm assuming that's the case. I hope they'd specify it there if you had to reconnect, say, every 30 days to reauthenticate your game.

Quick ninjaedit: Actually, I'm going to test that out. I've a laptop which isn't doing much, I'll let that sit and stew on a game for a few months and see what happens.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Musashi on September 30, 2010, 09:29:08 AM
If you're mad at Steam because you think they're dirty DRM double donkey dicks, you're doing it wrong.  They are the Freedom Fry munching alternative to that.  Because if Steam doesn't give publishers a reason not to Starforce the shit out of everything, you can bet they would.  So pick your poison: Steam, Starforce, or pirate.  Otherwise, fuck you.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Pezzle on September 30, 2010, 10:08:57 AM
In my case it is irritating because if I wanted it on steam it is easy enough to download the client.  I wanted the disc and box.  I did not want them associated with steam.  Why?  Because I wanted it that way.  This is not some anti-steam rant, just a choice.  Having games not associated with steam should be a legitimate option.  The points about DRM are well made though.  This is what we get, meh. 


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Paelos on September 30, 2010, 10:14:07 AM
It doesn't specify that you won't ever have to reconnect, but I'm assuming that's the case. I hope they'd specify it there if you had to reconnect, say, every 30 days to reauthenticate your game.

Quick ninjaedit: Actually, I'm going to test that out. I've a laptop which isn't doing much, I'll let that sit and stew on a game for a few months and see what happens.

As long as you follow instructions, are proactive about getting your games launched and to 100% ready when offline once, then save your settings and switch to offline mode, you are good for the long haul.

The people that bitch about Steam not working in offline are the ones who lose connection unexpectedly and never took the time to update their stuff while they had online mode on. That's why I always suggest to friends to run Steam in offline mode unless you are buying things, because that way you know exactly what will/won't work in advance.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: NiX on September 30, 2010, 10:17:18 AM
In my case it is irritating because if I wanted it on steam it is easy enough to download the client.  I wanted the disc and box.  I did not want them associated with steam.  Why?  Because I wanted it that way.  This is not some anti-steam rant, just a choice.  Having games not associated with steam should be a legitimate option.  The points about DRM are well made though.  This is what we get, meh. 

A lot of Steam games can be bought as physical copies, unless you're referring to games bought over Steam, which is a silly argument considering the purpose of digital distribution is to cut out that cost.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Nevermore on September 30, 2010, 10:42:33 AM
I am not interested in changing my ways

And today in Bizarro World, someone longs for the good old days of SecuROM.  :roll:


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: ffc on September 30, 2010, 10:57:32 AM
There is absolutely no reason why single player Civ5 ever needs online access after activation. I am not interested in multplayer, I am also not interested in logging in every time I want to play.

Ok.  Here's an offline Steam tutorial.  After installing a game and doing the one-time online activation with no other preparatory steps taken:

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2938963/s0.jpg)

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2938963/s1.jpg)

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2938963/s2.jpg)

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2938963/s3.jpg)

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2938963/s4.jpg)


Steam isn't just terrible DRM.  In exchange for it's one-time online activation requirement it has a host of benefits as outlined in response to your rage which makes it palatable or even beneficial to have.  You can even check and update AMD video drivers through Steam.  This is why Steam can be good while Ubisoft's DRM is all bad.

So pick your poison: Steam, Starforce, or pirate.

Pirating as an alternative to terrible DRM is one thing, but with Steam's positives as an easy download/storage tool it can be a better alternative to pirating. 

As for boxed copies it would be nice if Steam's default prices were lower than its boxed game counterparts.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on September 30, 2010, 11:11:50 AM

A lot of Steam games can be bought as physical copies, unless you're referring to games bought over Steam, which is a silly argument considering the purpose of digital distribution is to cut out that cost.

I *specifically* purchased physical copy of Civ5. There is no way to install it and not get involved with steam. Even if you already activated/validated/whatever the game, you still have to install Steam, connect/update/patch and then and only then it might be kind enough to let you put it into offline mode, but it will work only if you did all these steps correctly, and you actually have to block it from internet for it to be possible, you can't simply tell it not to go online. How is this functionally different from malware/spyware?

I avoided games with draconian DRM, I will continue to do so in this case. Industry can DIAF, they are not going to get a penny out of my rather substantial entertainment spending until they can provide hassle-free experience for me.

Lets compare Impulse GalCiv2 installation with Civ5 istallation.

GalCiv2 - run DVD, optionally type in product key (it will work but won't let you patch until you do), optionally install and/or run Impulse. Play by running game directly or via Impulse.
Civ5 - run DVD, mandatory install Steam, mandatory create Steam account, mandatory type product key, mandatory run Steam to Play, doesn't ask you about connecting/patching.

Fuck. That. Shit.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on September 30, 2010, 11:27:05 AM
And I thought I was being obstinate and difficult when I was all rawr rawr DRM IS EBUL when it was DRM which either had a limit on number of activations or demanded you reauthenticate yourself every x days or (lately) stay connected at all times. And it turns out I'm almost reasonable, comparatively.

How the fuck did that happen?

Quick ninjaedit:
I've switched computers during my Steam buying, and reloading my entire system has been a breeze due to Steam's library. I just set the games to download, walk away for a day, and come back with my entire system ready to play.
Actually, if you want to save yourself that day, copy all the crap off your old harddisks and either onto an external disk before reinstlal, copy everything back, and just reauthenticate them. Win.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Big Gulp on September 30, 2010, 11:27:49 AM

Fuck. That. Shit.


You will be missed.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: WayAbvPar on September 30, 2010, 11:29:32 AM
How the hell did you go the past 2 years without knowing Civ V was packaged with Steamworks? It has been  :dead_horse: on pretty much every website that ever mentioned the game. I am also willing to bet that it is mentioned on the actual game box, so even if you just got off a plane from a desert island with no internet connection for the past 2 years you would still be prewarned.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on September 30, 2010, 12:20:43 PM
How the hell did you go the past 2 years without knowing Civ V was packaged with Steamworks?

By a) not playing close attention b) assuming that buying DVD for a single player game will let me get out of Internet-only platforms like Steam

[Edit: Seems I am not the only one]


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Samwise on September 30, 2010, 12:24:43 PM
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40386/Misc/meowmeow.png)


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Pezzle on September 30, 2010, 12:33:13 PM
That is really not the point I am trying to make Samwise.  Yes you can offline.  How about no steam?  Steam only obviously was not the end of the world for me.  It is contrary to my desire for this particular product though.  


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Samwise on September 30, 2010, 12:35:02 PM
That is really not the point I am trying to make Samwise.

I wasn't talking to you.  You're an entirely different sort of crazy.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on September 30, 2010, 12:35:41 PM
By a) not playing close attention b) assuming that buying DVD for a single player game will let me get out of Internet-only platforms like Steam
If you really think that buying DVD for a singleplayer game this past 1-2 years automatically meant you would get out of internet-only platforms "like steam", then you really, seriously, haven't been paying much attention. It began with Spore requiring online activations, and that was in 2008. It got worse and worse as time went on, culminating with Ubisoft and EA's latest "services". Steam is the benign cuddly uncle compared to those systems, because it actually brings a ton of useful features along for the ride.

Seriously, if you want to see where PC games were heading, buy assassin's creed 2, install it, start playing and unplug your internet connection. Watch what happens.

You're seriously at least 2 years out of date with how fucked PC gamers were getting.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Pezzle on September 30, 2010, 12:41:14 PM
That is really not the point I am trying to make Samwise.

I wasn't talking to you.  You're an entirely different sort of crazy.

Oh.  Ok then.  Glad we have that cleared up!


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Malakili on September 30, 2010, 12:49:57 PM


I avoided games with draconian DRM, I will continue to do so in this case. Industry can DIAF, they are not going to get a penny out of my rather substantial entertainment spending until they can provide hassle-free experience for me.


Just save yourself the trouble and pick up a new hobby then, because Steam is on the GOOD end of where PC gaming is going.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on September 30, 2010, 12:52:15 PM
You're seriously at least 2 years out of datebuying with how fucked PC gamers were getting.

I skipped all these games despite having interest in playing them, so I wouldn't know if it was rape-your-soul bad or kick-your-dog bad... Your justification of "well its not as bad as Holocaust" does not work for me, it is still bad enough by my standards , that I wouldn't knowingly participate in it.  I wrote 2K support asking for a refund, with full intention of returning the game. We will see what comes out of that.

I did read the box before opening. It said in a very small print: "Internet connection and acceptance of Steam Subscriber Agreement required for activation. Access to special features my require internet connection.... Apparently ability to play Civ5 is considered "special feature".



Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on September 30, 2010, 01:04:40 PM
Apparently ability to play Civ5 is considered "special feature".
Oh no, you did not just ignore everything we just said. :oh_i_see:

Start game, shut down game, set steam into offline mode, play without internet until your balls fall off. How is that a problem?

If you really are going to take the stance where you're going to avoid any and all games which require activations in any way, shape or form, then like Malakili said, find yourself a new hobby now. Steam is seriously on the better end of where PC gaming is heading. It had seriously gone from "meh, I need the disc in the drive to start, but it's :effort: to find it" to "oh dear, the internet connection between me and the publisher had a fit and now I have to restart this level". It's beyond rape-your-soul bad.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: kildorn on September 30, 2010, 01:16:59 PM
You're seriously at least 2 years out of datebuying with how fucked PC gamers were getting.

I skipped all these games despite having interest in playing them, so I wouldn't know if it was rape-your-soul bad or kick-your-dog bad... Your justification of "well its not as bad as Holocaust" does not work for me, it is still bad enough by my standards , that I wouldn't knowingly participate in it.  I wrote 2K support asking for a refund, with full intention of returning the game. We will see what comes out of that.

I did read the box before opening. It said in a very small print: "Internet connection and acceptance of Steam Subscriber Agreement required for activation. Access to special features my require internet connection.... Apparently ability to play Civ5 is considered "special feature".



... the fine print is perfectly accurate. Steam is required for activation. In order to play a steam activated game, steam's process MUST BE RUNNING.

This is akin to complaining that not only do you need windows for the INSTALLER to run, but the actual PROGRAM, too!

Seriously, flip steam to offline, play Civ 5, and continue to be in that odd minority on the internet who thinks steam (and steamworks, which is what Civ is using) are a terrible thing. This isn't akin to saying it's not the holocaust level of bad, this is akin to saying it's not bad, it's the freaking salvation of PC gaming. And if you want to opt out, all you need to do is start the game once, flag offline mode, and then live happily ever after.


On a game related note: turn 7 last night, I had 4 brutes and a trireme chilling out in my home city's turf. Seriously, someone set my barbarians to Crazy. By turn 100 or so my small island had spawned a new barb camp every ~2 turns.l


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Daeven on September 30, 2010, 01:39:52 PM
I am not interested in changing my ways and not interested in giving Steam another chance. They destroyed my CS and this is very much unforgivable sin in my book.
Oh. My bad. I thought you were looking for help. The Department For Free Horse-Buggy whips is thee doors down. Have a nice day.

P.S. There is a lovely full color manual. In .pdf. You have to use THE EVIL to download it. It might even be present on your oddly retrograde physical medium with the crappy low-bandwidth 'car' bitrate. I'm not certain though.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Sky on September 30, 2010, 01:57:30 PM
(http://forums.f13.net/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=2491;type=avatar)


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: NiX on September 30, 2010, 02:10:05 PM
Why is Sky the voice of reason?

I'm tempted to split this and den the Steam stupidity.


Title: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Ingmar on September 30, 2010, 02:11:53 PM
I think this thread is starting to circle the drain.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Segoris on September 30, 2010, 02:58:33 PM
So does the direct2drive version, or any other version available another digital download service that may have it, require Steam as well? If not, I'm curious as to how they handle the updates since they don't use a client like Steam. If so, damn that Gabe is a sly mofo to have competitor's require his product for items they sell.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Ingmar on September 30, 2010, 03:00:43 PM
So does the direct2drive version, or any other version available another digital download service that may have it, require Steam as well? If not, I'm curious as to how they handle the updates since they don't use a client like Steam. If so, damn that Gabe is a sly mofo to have competitor's require his product for items they sell.

Doesn't matter how you get it, they all use Steamworks.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Segoris on September 30, 2010, 03:04:16 PM
I just looked it up and yeah, I'm seeing that now. That is a smooth move by Steam, and it's just now hitting me how big of an importance that is where as before I didn't think much of it as I've taken Steam for granted lately. Especially since I, for one, welcomed our Steam overlords a while ago.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Lantyssa on September 30, 2010, 03:06:59 PM
I think this thread is starting to circle the drain.
:heart:


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on September 30, 2010, 03:13:27 PM
Quote from: http://www.direct2drive.com/4/9620/product/Buy-Sid-Meier%E2%80%99s-Civilization-V-Digital-Deluxe-Edition-Download
Other Requirements: Initial installation requires one-time Internet connection for Steam authentication; software installations required (included with the game) include Steam Client, Microsoft Visual C++2008 Runtime Libraries and Microsoft DirectX.

D2D is just the delivery vehicle, whereas steam is the primary content delivery platform, then, which Civ5 has been tightly integrated. I guess this is a nice indication that the other networks might be a tad too late in fleshing out their functionality, and that steam might soon be the de-facto platform for all PC games.

I'm not sure if I should be slightly worried about the potential monopoly we might be getting here, or happy if it means less of the mindfuckery that is Ubisoft/EA's "solutions". I'm currently kind of rooting for steam since the alternative will entail "get another hobby".


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on September 30, 2010, 03:30:43 PM
I still don't see my reaction of "buy DVD, play the game" as unreasonable. I might be older than target demographic of most of the games these days (but probably not Civ franchise), but is always-connected, Facebook-updating in-your-face intrusive DRM what current over-shearer generation expects and thinks is the new norm?  I really fail to see where/how money is gained with this, it certainly doesn't stop piracy... so why bother?


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on September 30, 2010, 03:35:21 PM
Tell me how steam is "always-connected", "facebook-updating", and "in-your-face intrusive".


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Reg on September 30, 2010, 03:37:33 PM
Jesus, it's like he completely ignored the half dozen posts where helpful people explained in excruciating detail how to run it offline.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on September 30, 2010, 03:38:56 PM
Facebook-updating was reference to Bnet2; always-connected is just how steam works, while as was explained to me it is possible to block it and use it in offline mode, default mode of operation is login and connect.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on September 30, 2010, 03:40:28 PM
Jesus, it's like he completely ignored the half dozen posts where helpful people explained in excruciating detail how to run it offline.

I carefully read them, appreciated advice and understood it.

You are confusing "not willing to put up with it" with "not understanding how it works". Different people have different standards, someone out there will tolerate getting anal probed as part of DRM scheme. You might think my expectations of "single player games need to stay offline" as unreasonable, but nonetheless I am entitled to act on them as you are entitled to enjoy your anal probing.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Reg on September 30, 2010, 03:42:41 PM
Well then, as has already been suggested it's time for a new hobby. Because running on Steam is by far the least objectionable modern DRM scheme.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: shiznitz on September 30, 2010, 03:43:05 PM
Jesus, it's like he completely ignored the half dozen posts where helpful people explained in excruciating detail how to run it offline.

None of that allows one to even start the game if one's internet is down, which does happen more than occasionally.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: slog on September 30, 2010, 03:43:47 PM
Moral of the story:  A DVD is the box is truly just another way to download the game.  In the PC game world, all roads will soon lead to centralized authentication.  



Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: proudft on September 30, 2010, 03:44:13 PM
You like patches, don't you?  Would you rather periodically check the Firaxis site to see if a patch has been released, run the game to check the start screen to figure out if you already have it, download the zip or installer, install it, and waste 5d4 minutes of your life with all this - or have Steam silently do it in the background while you are doing something useful?

This is the kind of intrusiveness that Steam is bringing you.   :grin:

Edit:
None of that allows one to even start the game if one's internet is down, which does happen more than occasionally.

wat?   I run Steam games on a laptop unconnected to the internet all the damn time.  It pops up a little window saying HEY YOU'RE NOT ONLINE and you say I KNOW, RITE? and on you go.



Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Paelos on September 30, 2010, 03:46:30 PM
Way to go Sinij, your brand of obstinate trolling got you your own special unintentional thread.  :grin:


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on September 30, 2010, 03:47:25 PM
I would rather Big Brother stay the fuck out of my gaming, regardless of form, reason or origin.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on September 30, 2010, 03:48:31 PM
Way to go Sinij, your brand of obstinate trolling got you your own special unintentional thread.  :grin:

I could always start a new thread if trolling was my intention, we aren't running out of new thread materials around these parts, are we?

This community was always too conformist, if you aren't anti-PK, pro-Furry, pro-Steam, pro-Whatever you are called troll.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on September 30, 2010, 03:49:24 PM
I couldn't care less about bnet2, since I didn't buy starcraft2 because I didn't like the terms, but how can you really sit there and say, with a straight face, that because something by default is setup to actually talk to the steam servers (which is what 99.999% of the users will probably want it to do in the first place), it's "always-on"?

Ubisoft's DRM is always-on. EA's DRM is always-on. They can't be shut off, in any way, shape or form (except if you switch off the game, which ... doesn't really count).

None of that allows one to even start the game if one's internet is down, which does happen more than occasionally.
It'll be a problem the first time. It's bitten me all of ... well, once, in 6 years. For 4 hours I think. I can live with that compared to having to start your level over because ubisoft's servers had a hickup.

The alternative is to wait 11-12 years and watch it pop up DRM-free on GOG.com. vOv


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on September 30, 2010, 03:53:41 PM
The alternative is encrypted-key USB dongles. A lot of professional software uses it these days, why not games?

I couldn't care less about bnet2, since I didn't buy starcraft2 because I didn't like the terms

With this said, on what grounds are you trying to give me hard time over doing exactly the same thing with Steam?


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Goreschach on September 30, 2010, 03:58:40 PM
The alternative is encrypted-key USB dongles. A lot of professional software uses it these days, why not games?

You think steam is too much of a hassle, so you want a dongle for every game you own?


That's really fucking stupid.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on September 30, 2010, 04:02:54 PM
I want DRM-free games, dongle is just an alternative.

Yes, I find dongle less intrusive, simply because it is contained system with limited scope. Dongle won't attempt to install advertising in your old games, it won't add/remove features from your product without asking you, it won't try to track your use/other activities and sell it to advertisers/google.

Lets say in 2015 Steam decides to show Coke adds with every loading screen, and make sure you need to load something every 15 minutes for at least 30 seconds. There isn't a thing you can do about it when you try to play Civ5, even if when you originally purchased it in 2010 it didn't have any adds simply because you clicked "accept" to 'we can do whatever the fuck we want' TOS 5 years ago.

...

or they simply can go out of business and/or get purchased by EA/UBI and retroactively change how things work.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Paelos on September 30, 2010, 04:09:16 PM
Tell you you what, they attach a dongle to your game, and then they attach that to an account, which is online to your email address and a credit card.

And then you have Steam, except it's on a dongle you have to find every time you load a game.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on September 30, 2010, 04:11:31 PM
I don't think I am communicating this clearly...

When Steam get purchased by EA or UBI all your Steam games will retroactively get Assassin's Creed 2-style DRM patched into them and/or adds and/or turned into distributed computing bot and/or whatever else they want to do with you. You won't walk away from your entire collection of games, including your single-player games, so they have you by the balls.

Ether way, I am done arguing this since it all falling on deaf ears.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: naum on September 30, 2010, 04:14:46 PM
Even bypassing Steam, and buying game disc, still you are not the "owner" of the game software, you still have simply just purchased and procured a license to run said game software on your machine.

While I like Steam and believe it's enactment of DRM to be quite painless and beneficial, I do see, however, the angst in purchasing a disc that just serves as a conduit to Steam.

But that's the deal Civ 5 makers made.

Personally, as much as I enjoy the Civ series, holding out not because of Steam, but because of heavy work and school load AND also because, as I've found with the last couple Civ {$n} iterations, it didn't become a polished game until at least six months or more have eclipsed, and the game is patched into that state.

So you all keep hammering away at it and Firaxis (or whoever dev house is now) will remedy the initial release bugs and ills.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Paelos on September 30, 2010, 04:24:40 PM
Ether way, I am done arguing this since it all falling on deaf ears.

Yes, clearly we aren't listening.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Ironwood on September 30, 2010, 04:28:35 PM

Ether way, I am done arguing this since it all falling on deaf ears.


This does not mean what you think it means.  You just want us to tell you that you're right or, at the very least, to agree with you.

We kinda can't because you're wrong.  It's that simple.

And this comes from the BIGGEST hater of Steam who came to the Steam party so late it was almost last week.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on September 30, 2010, 04:29:29 PM
The alternative is encrypted-key USB dongles. A lot of professional software uses it these days, why not games?

Oh god, yes, that's a nice solution. That's not a hassle at all. Let's have a chat when you have a few hundred games, each with its own dongle.

I couldn't care less about bnet2, since I didn't buy starcraft2 because I didn't like the terms

With this said, on what grounds are you trying to give me hard time over doing exactly the same thing with Steam?
Oh, you thought it was just the "you must connect to a central server to start a game" bit? I'm sorry if I didn't specify what bothered me the most about CS2. I'm not entirely happy about the fact that even though you can "play as guest" after you've authenticated your copy, each authentication only lasts for 30 days and you have to reauthenticate yourself (which is worse than Steam where you auth once and can play forever, without updates. vOv). It's blizzard though, and they're trying to make SC2 into the same competition game SC1 is, and as such they're very likely to keep supporting it for a long long time. So I'm not as bothered by that as I am about

1) Lack of proper LAN support for normal people
2) Regional limitations

But you go ahead and assume away, it seems to be working fine.

I don't think I am communicating this clearly...

When Steam get purchased by EA or UBI all your Steam games will retroactively get Assassin's Creed 2-style DRM patched into them.
Oh. So now it's suddenly a doomsday scenario. That sounds unlikely simply because that would probably single-handedly

1) kill a large chunk of the PC market through anger, which is already weakened.
2) kill whoever bought steam and implemented that retroactively, because I'm pretty sure they would be sued to fuck and back.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Lantyssa on September 30, 2010, 04:45:06 PM
Who's the bigger fool?  The fool or the fool who argues with him?

He doesn't want Steam.  Fine.  There won't be hardly any games he can play in about, oh, six months ago.  Whatever.  You're wasting your time on someone who was never worth it in the first place.  Just... stop.  Please.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: kildorn on September 30, 2010, 04:55:58 PM
I don't think I am communicating this clearly...

When Steam get purchased by EA or UBI all your Steam games will retroactively get Assassin's Creed 2-style DRM patched into them and/or adds and/or turned into distributed computing bot and/or whatever else they want to do with you. You won't walk away from your entire collection of games, including your single-player games, so they have you by the balls.

Ether way, I am done arguing this since it all falling on deaf ears.

Doesn't matter, windows will do this before steam does, or macos, or whatever else.

You're basically slippery sloping the entire conversation from the start. It's basically become "well sure, steam isn't offensive NOW, but *bizarre alternate universe inserted here* to make it wrong"

I mean we're one insane leap from discussing how we shouldn't pay for our copies of windows because MS is just going to eventually use the money to clone Hitler's brain into a shark.

Steam is a profit machine. Even if in some manner Ubi bought them, steam makes SHITLOADS of money. They're not going to buy steam and then destroy it's profit method by making it create a broken system. The worst thing you can say is "what if steam goes out of business", at which point they've already said they have a script that will unlock all the purchases if the company is ever folding.

I'm really not seeing how you can hate steam.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Chimpy on September 30, 2010, 05:04:14 PM
I find it mildly ironic that someone is complaining about a videogame needing what is effectively, a pretty innocuous form of online activation in this day and age where almost all software you buy from OS on down requires an online activation at the time of installation/first startup.



Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Typhon on September 30, 2010, 05:10:05 PM
Who's the bigger fool?  The fool or the fool who argues with him?[...]

Sista, Please!  The amount of bear-baiting you do on this site I'd expect your fingers to rip themselves off your hands for the hypocrisy of typing that post.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: HaemishM on September 30, 2010, 05:29:42 PM
This thread delivers. Sinji doesn't want Steam, the easiest fucking system to use in the goddamn world, but DOES want encrypted USB dongles for his games. That's like whiplash inducing cognitive dissonance.

You keep tilting, Don!


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Sjofn on September 30, 2010, 06:13:34 PM
waste 5d4 minutes of your life with all this

lawl


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Lantyssa on September 30, 2010, 07:29:06 PM
Sista, Please!  The amount of bear-baiting you do on this site I'd expect your fingers to rip themselves off your hands for the hypocrisy of typing that post.
I'm complicated. :-P  (There are also definite patterns to my posting, that should be easy to spot given my prodigious posting history.  At least some people get me. :cry:)

That statement though?  Not sarcastic or joking.  Plus it's for the people trying to reason with Sinij, who obviously aren't aware of his past attitudes.  At best people are wasting their time.  At worst, he's trolling them.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Merusk on September 30, 2010, 07:37:06 PM
I avoided games with draconian DRM, I will continue to do so in this case. Industry can DIAF, they are not going to get a penny out of my rather substantial entertainment spending until they can provide hassle-free experience for me.

I'd get over the whole "ownership" thing and railing against DRM for all of your entertainment wants.  Given the recent 9th circuit ruling on the ownership/ resale of software and the likely decision,  should it go to the Supreme Court as it stands, ownership is a dead notion for all things digital.  Once the RIAA and MPAA figure this out and finally transition to streaming and/or subscription sites  CDs and DVDs will go the way of the dodo, much like games are doing.  You're a permanent renter now, find the best way to rent things.  Steam is currently that for games.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Sheepherder on September 30, 2010, 07:41:46 PM
It's obvious he's trolling, given the claims that EA or Ubisoft will eventually purchase Valve.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on September 30, 2010, 08:04:13 PM
You're a permanent renter now, find the best way to rent things.

I am big science fiction reader and recently (couple months back) Asimovs had a story about dystopian future where everything in "first world" is rented - cars, clothing, housing, education... while third world countries focused on recycling couple-years old stuff and ended in arguably better position due to not having to pay rents.

While I am not familiar with specifics of the case you are talking about, such course of events holds very little appeal to me. Rentership to me implies that goods/services can be withdrawn at any time and/or require on-going payments. While some things, like utilities, are difficult to purchase, other things like goods and services are not. There is very definitive line between you owning a game and renting access to in from Steam.

Now, when this applied to computer games, despite what ELUA and other non-enforceable crap says, you do outright own the game by virtue of having ability to install and play it at any time you want to for as long as you want to. This is not the case with 'online' (Steam et al.) distribution model where your access can be removed/modified for any arbitrary reason.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on September 30, 2010, 08:17:23 PM
You are not worth the effort.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on September 30, 2010, 08:23:02 PM
It's obvious he's trolling, given the claims that EA or Ubisoft will eventually purchase Valve.

Both EA and Ubi are big enough that they can afford it, and post-recession economy is entering another round of mega-acquisitions/mergers. I would be surprised if Steam remains independent for more than couple years, if that.

Companies that have good reasons to by Steam/Valve

Sony
Microsoft
EA
Ubi



Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Wasted on September 30, 2010, 09:17:46 PM
There is no reason to believe they couldn't buy Impulse as well and fuck with it to the worst of all your fears.

There is no reason any game can't be fucked with stealth patches to make your computer bend you over and have its wicked way with you.

There is no reason why Microsoft couldn't slip in with the next security update enough flashing coke ads to send you into seizures.

None of your arguments are Steam specific.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Samwise on September 30, 2010, 09:48:21 PM
Meow meow, we like luddite tears.  Meow meow, thread delivers.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Sheepherder on September 30, 2010, 10:23:16 PM
None of those companies are in a position to be buying out competitors.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Rishathra on September 30, 2010, 10:24:14 PM
I've always wondered if sinij's avatar is his own, or was it given to him like a forum title?  Because every time I see him post, the best response I can think of is that image.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Azazel on September 30, 2010, 11:22:35 PM
only then it might be kind enough to let you put it into offline mode, but it will work only if you did all these steps correctly, and you actually have to block it from internet for it to be possible, you can't simply tell it not to go online. How is this functionally different from malware/spyware?

I don't think you understand how steam works.

I set mine to go offline regularly, since I have various steam installs on different machines. My home and work laptops steam accounts default to offline, and stay that way unless I tell them to connect to the internet. As in the example above with the simple pictures. The actual computers are always connected.

edit - wheee! late to the party!


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Rendakor on September 30, 2010, 11:46:22 PM
You're a permanent renter now, find the best way to rent things.

LOTS OF WORDS
You are not worth the effort.
It's obvious he's trolling, given the claims that EA or Ubisoft will eventually purchase Valve.
MOAR WORDS 3RD POST IN A ROW
You are not worth the effort.
the effort.
:oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: WindupAtheist on October 01, 2010, 01:09:24 AM
This community was always too conformist, if you aren't anti-PK, pro-Furry, pro-Steam, pro-Whatever you are called troll.

Maybe you're just retarded. You should consider the possibility. Also, just go pirate the goddamn game. You've already paid for it, so nobody can give you any shit about it.

Meow meow, we like luddite tears.  Meow meow, thread delivers.

Epic. I literally burst out laughing.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Ingmar on October 01, 2010, 01:31:22 AM
I don't think I am communicating this clearly...

When Steam get purchased by EA or UBI all your Steam games will retroactively get Assassin's Creed 2-style DRM patched into them and/or adds and/or turned into distributed computing bot and/or whatever else they want to do with you. You won't walk away from your entire collection of games, including your single-player games, so they have you by the balls.

Ether way, I am done arguing this since it all falling on deaf ears.

No. Even if that happened, somehow in paranoid fantasy land, it would only be the Valve games that happened to. UBI or EA or PutinSoft can't just slap their own DRM onto other publisher's games if they buy Steam.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Nevermore on October 01, 2010, 01:45:38 AM
If only they had used something that's less of a pain in the ass than Steam, like:



Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Tebonas on October 01, 2010, 01:53:23 AM
Copper
Knight
Efreet

You knew some of the codes by heart quite fast. Oh, the good old times  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Ingmar on October 01, 2010, 01:54:16 AM
Which version of Pool had that? The C64 version just had you look up word 12 in the 4th sentence on page 15 of the manual and stuff like that. Plus journal entries that you had to go to paper for.

Ultima VI on the PC had one of those wheel thingies I think, too.

Or maybe my memory is just gone?


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Sheepherder on October 01, 2010, 02:08:17 AM
No, U6 had a bunch of lore questions.  I still remember the answers to most of them.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on October 01, 2010, 04:31:13 AM
I remember Frontier: Elite II's protection used the manual in the same way to provide letters to keep playing. Ahh, memories.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: K9 on October 01, 2010, 04:32:05 AM
I want DRM-free games

You're living in a dream world


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Simond on October 01, 2010, 05:00:03 AM
So...if I'm reading this thread right, Sinij is a pirate who hasn't paid for a game in two years and is now bitching because The Man is trying to make a living?


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on October 01, 2010, 05:23:40 AM
I want DRM-free games

You're living in a dream world
Not entirely dream world, it's only if you qualify it as DRM-free new games that he's living in a dream world. GOG is providing 10+ year old games, DRM-free. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Malakili on October 01, 2010, 07:11:55 AM
I want DRM-free games

You're living in a dream world


I think the real issue here is that Steam, while having DRM as part of it, is actually a GOOD service.  If, in 2010, requiring an internet connection one time to authenticate a game is too much for you, like I've already said, just pick a new hobby.    I'm as anti DRM as anyone, and Steam has been one of the best things to happen to gaming...ever... in my opinion.  No swapping disks, download things as often as i like, useful community functionality, integrated VOIP...

And seriously, if Steam were to blow up in 5 years, while that would suck, the realistic scenario is that (assuming they didn't somehow allow one less DRM free download of your library or something, which is a fair expectation since we are going for the worst case scenario here), I would be pissed off a lot for a week, probably buy like the 2 games that I was actually playing at the time over again through another store, and move on with my life.  Yeah, I can acknowledge that its bad that something like that could happen, but Steam has been so overwhelmingly a positive experience for me that I really find it hard to believe that people are still acting like they were in 2005 when this was ACTUALLY controversial.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Typhon on October 01, 2010, 07:33:25 AM
Sista, Please!  The amount of bear-baiting you do on this site I'd expect your fingers to rip themselves off your hands for the hypocrisy of typing that post.
I'm complicated. :-P  (There are also definite patterns to my posting, that should be easy to spot given my prodigious posting history.  At least some people get me. :cry:)

That statement though?  Not sarcastic or joking.  Plus it's for the people trying to reason with Sinij, who obviously aren't aware of his past attitudes.  At best people are wasting their time.  At worst, he's trolling them.

:)  I would be flabbergasted if there is a single person who is posting in this thread that thinks that the thread will end with sinij posting, "well, maybe I should give it a chance".

I mostly posted that because I like the cadence of "Sista, Please!" (reminded me of Lum's "Stigga, Please!" which I thought was hysterical).  I partially posted because I didn't want you stopping the poking too soon... lol, but really, there is no chance of that happening.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Pezzle on October 01, 2010, 08:13:16 AM
If only they had used something that's less of a pain in the ass than Steam, like:


Dammit I was going to post that in this morning!

PC version has it.  So did Curse of the Azure Bonds and some of the other Gold Box games.  If memory serves they were all slightly different which lead to frustrations.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Lantyssa on October 01, 2010, 09:49:53 AM
Wow, I completely forgot about the rune wheels.  I kept all my gold box games, so they have to be stashed somewhere.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Sky on October 01, 2010, 10:03:19 AM
This community was always too conformist
:why_so_serious:

I also have one of those awful wheels.

I also think that Ford is going to buy Steam because they mistakenly thought it was an alternative energy company, then all of our games will only be playable in the new Ford Focus Hybrid. It's really the mostly likely outcome, I read a book about it.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: CmdrSlack on October 01, 2010, 10:43:44 AM
The blogosphere is taking it very seriously.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: NiX on October 01, 2010, 11:14:31 AM
This community was always too conformist, if you aren't anti-PK, pro-Furry, pro-Steam, pro-Whatever you are called troll.

HAH! Seriously? You clearly weren't around for when Steam launched. You couldn't open a Steam/Steam Game thread around here without being sandblasted by a bunch of vaginas.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Morfiend on October 01, 2010, 11:27:31 AM
I have always been pro Steam. Even when everyone here riled against it. I think its a fucking fantastic service. I have never bothered to take it offline ether. You know what, if my internet goes down and I cant play, Ill go play my console or go outside or something.

I would take steam style activation over Starforce or SecuROM any day. The fact that a few of the Steam games come with DRM (Bloowbowl) makes me mad. I returned Bloodbowl then scrubbed my system.

Also, the Steam sales are fucking great, for both sides of the sale.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Samwise on October 01, 2010, 12:23:43 PM
This community was always too conformist, if you aren't anti-PK, pro-Furry, pro-Steam, pro-Whatever you are called troll.

HAH! Seriously? You clearly weren't around for when Steam launched. You couldn't open a Steam/Steam Game thread around here without being sandblasted by a bunch of vaginas.
:drillf:


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Ironwood on October 01, 2010, 12:46:11 PM
Nix is not wrong though.  There was a lot of negative reaction (much like any industry reacting to The Cloud at the moment) and I remember being one of them.

That said, I was on FUCKING DIAL UP AT THE TIME.

YOU TRY DOWNLOADING HALF LIFE TWO ON DIAL UP.  YOU CUNTS.  YOU TRY IT !!!!

Ahem.

Aye, Steam at the start wasn't really for me.  Nowadays, I think this kind of thing (plus GOG without the shitty marketing ploys) because it's all about convenience. 


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Yegolev on October 01, 2010, 01:26:41 PM
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/85916/horror_on_internet.png)


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Ironwood on October 01, 2010, 01:27:52 PM
Oh Fuck, that's got me giggling.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: HaemishM on October 01, 2010, 01:34:01 PM
Win.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Yegolev on October 01, 2010, 01:57:55 PM
I don't feel like I won.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Soulflame on October 01, 2010, 02:27:30 PM
After years of Pyroraven link abuse, I seriously doubt the internet could do that to me anymore.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Chimpy on October 01, 2010, 02:58:40 PM
Can someone lead sinij back to his cave so we can go on with our lives?


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on October 01, 2010, 03:05:04 PM
I'd say he's slinked back all on his own.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: HaemishM on October 01, 2010, 03:59:18 PM
After years of Pyroraven link abuse, I seriously doubt the internet could do that to me anymore.

Never bet against the Internet's ability to skullfuck you with the sheer freakydeekiness of the rest of humanity.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: ghost on October 01, 2010, 04:07:06 PM
I think Steam is now providing excellent service to caves all around the world.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Tannhauser on October 01, 2010, 05:16:51 PM
As a recent convert to Steam I have to endorse it.  I got Tropico 3 for like $8 and I pre-downloaded Civ V so as soon as I got home from work, clicked a couple of times and I was off and playing.  No CD swapping, no patches, easy peasy.

The lack of DVD's does bother me a bit (and no farking rulebook), but Steam is just so damn user-friendly.  I wonder what would happen, though if Steam was discontinued? 

If you're a serious PC gamer I've got to think you'll have Steam. 


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Samwise on October 01, 2010, 05:38:15 PM
I wonder what would happen, though if Steam was discontinued?

The absolute worst case scenario, in which Valve went out of business overnight and shut down the Steam servers without warning, is that your local copy of Steam would go into offline mode and you'd be able to keep playing the games that you already had installed at the time.  (If you're a paranoid nut who backs up all his Steam games, you'd still have those as well, and of course you could always just go bittorrent them with a clear conscience.)  Games that themselves depend on Steam for multiplayer would of course be broken, much like Blizzard's games would all be broken if b.net were discontinued and not replaced.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on October 01, 2010, 05:50:09 PM
The thing that makes me literally have to support steam, is all the awesome indie games I've found as a result. Games like Galcon Fusion, Eufloria, osmos, shatter, VVVVVV, AI War, Hacker Evolution, ghost master ... and so on and so on. I might have heard of them if not for steam, but I probably would never have bought them.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Miasma on October 01, 2010, 05:52:07 PM
Sinji if you let steam into your life and join the f13 group I will "gift" you a game come on now that's a free game.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Miasma on October 01, 2010, 05:53:03 PM
We should set up an f13 secret santa revolving around steam.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Merusk on October 01, 2010, 05:58:42 PM
After years of Pyroraven link abuse, I seriously doubt the internet could do that to me anymore.

Never bet against the Internet's ability to skullfuck you with the sheer freakydeekiness of the rest of humanity.

Yeah, I used to think the same way then discovered /b/ and some of that stuff STILL fucks with my head.



While I am not familiar with specifics of the case you are talking about, such course of events holds very little appeal to me. Rentership to me implies that goods/services can be withdrawn at any time and/or require on-going payments. While some things, like utilities, are difficult to purchase, other things like goods and services are not. There is very definitive line between you owning a game and renting access to in from Steam.

Now, when this applied to computer games, despite what ELUA and other non-enforceable crap says, you do outright own the game by virtue of having ability to install and play it at any time you want to for as long as you want to. This is not the case with 'online' (Steam et al.) distribution model where your access can be removed/modified for any arbitrary reason.

I didn't say I was a fan either.  Get familiar with it via this thread: http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=19806.0

It's going to wind-up being the law of the land and it will sucketh for everyone.  As for the "non enforcable" crap.. why do you think everyone in business is pushing so hard for cloud apps?  Most software I've encountered in the last 2 years already have "Must hit server to authenticate" DRMs as it is, regardless of you having a physical copy or not. That not only meets step #2 of the ruling requirement, it provides a real easy way for a company to turn your "owned" software into a coaster.  The same argument you're giving against steam, only with more physical clutter.

Hell, with the online capability of consoles, we're already seeing it move that way there, too.  EA(?)added the whole "This game was previously registered; no free content for you" to their games, expect it to move to "This game was previously licensed, transfer is invalid *brick*" shortly,  Ubisoft added the "Must hit the internet servers" crap with Assassin's Creed 2, already allowing them to do that.  You don't even own console games anymore.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Nevermore on October 01, 2010, 06:08:52 PM
Sinji if you let steam into your life and join the f13 group I will "gift" you a game come on now that's a free game.

We shouldn't be rewarding people who are being dumbasses.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Samwise on October 01, 2010, 06:12:16 PM
Sinji if you let steam into your life and join the f13 group I will "gift" you a game come on now that's a free game.

We shouldn't be rewarding people who are being dumbasses.

He didn't say what game.  I wouldn't assume it's a reward.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Ingmar on October 01, 2010, 06:15:26 PM
I'm guessing Space Siege.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Chimpy on October 01, 2010, 06:17:37 PM
The problem is, with sinji how can you know what he would take as a reward?

For all we know, E.T.: the Extra-Terrestrial on the Atari 2600 is his favorite game of all time.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Xuri on October 01, 2010, 06:19:43 PM
The only issue I have with Steam these days is that they are being total ass-monkeys by no longer letting me shower them with money using my Norwegian VISA-card, just because I happened to drag my sorry ass across the Atlantic.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on October 01, 2010, 06:25:54 PM
You're obviously a viking terrorists then. They don't deal with viking terrorists.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on October 01, 2010, 07:30:19 PM
Last night I decided to see how un-obnoxious Steam could be and reinstalled it. When I logged in it greeted me with an add for some game I didn't care about. Assholes. Fuck you in the ass with your adds! Unist...

... but wait, I am on a mission here. I am giving Steam 'Second Chance'TM because Lantyssa would cry if I don't, and I really, really (no ORly!) care about hurting her feelings. Plus there is a promise of free game in it for me. Maybe I can exchange it for alcohol or blow?

I methodically went through all settings and disabled anything and everything I could. I took it offline. Run Civ5 and it worked (ugghhh why is water so ugly?!)! Now I am about to try it again, see if I have to do anything extra-ordinary to keep it offline.



Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on October 01, 2010, 07:41:31 PM
Quote
Steam is currently set to be in Offline Mode. Many features, such as Friends and the Server Browser, will not be available while offline.

[Go Online] [Start In Offline Mode]


Nagware :/


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on October 01, 2010, 07:44:51 PM
Whiny little bitch. Start steam on boot, never reboot like real men, never see nagging. Problem solved.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on October 01, 2010, 07:46:22 PM
I am going balls deep into this thing!


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: bhodi on October 01, 2010, 08:11:53 PM
All you have to do is check 2 boxes in Settings->Interface - Run steam when my computer starts and Notify me about games, new releases, upcoming releases.

It's a checkbox. Seriously. I mean I'm the biggest pirate around and even I love steam.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Lantyssa on October 01, 2010, 09:22:34 PM
Oh gods.  The thought of Sinij having to endure Steam is almost as much of a turn-on as if the Trammel split happened every year.  I can barely contain myself.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Malakili on October 01, 2010, 09:25:08 PM
I am going balls deep into this thing!

My fucking god, either you are just deliberately trying to be annoyed by everything possible, or you have the patience of a 3 year old.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Nevermore on October 01, 2010, 09:30:33 PM
I am going balls deep into this thing!

My fucking god, either you are just deliberately trying to be annoyed by everything possible, or you have the patience of a 3 year old.

He's just some idiot who thinks that martyring himself on the cross of Steam gives him some kind of bizarre moral superiority.  If he truly believed half the crap he's posted he'd have returned the game days ago instead of constantly coming back here showing off all the horrible scars Steam has left upon his very soul.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Chimpy on October 01, 2010, 09:56:32 PM
Hello, this is sinji we are talking about here. He has a similar relationship with the idea we like to call 'sanity' as Britany Spears does.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Sheepherder on October 01, 2010, 09:59:43 PM
I mean I'm the biggest pirate around

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsJyfN0ICU


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Sir T on October 01, 2010, 10:43:34 PM
I Bought Supreme Commander 2.

Took It home. It forced me to Install Steam. THEN IT FORCED ME TO DOWNLOAD THE WHOLE FUCKING GAME DESPITE THE FACT I HAVE THE FUCKING DISK.

I look on the forums and basically the only way to stop steam doing this is to fuck with configuration files and the registry. Whoopy fucking do. SO I had to wait 14 hours to play the game I had the disk for. Thanks a lot steam.

And every so often if I get a urge to play sup com 2, I have to sit through an hour of steam patching the fucking thing and there's no option to turn this off.

Fuck. Steam.

Impulse, Gamersgate and GOG 4eveh. Why do you think Steam does specials? Because the other sites started doing them and they had to compete. Most of the good Indie stuff on steam you can get on the other download sites anyway, and anything that's not I can live without.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on October 01, 2010, 11:05:02 PM
If he truly believed half the crap he's posted he'd have returned the game days ago

I opened the box and tried to register it. There isn't any way I can return it short of doing chargeback on my CC (not likely to work since they got my signature) or writing to support and asking to return it (already done, but they have not get back to me yet).

IF I KNEW STEAM WAS INVOLVED, I WOULDN'T HAVE PURCHASED IT IN A FIRST PLACE but these sneaky bastards took me by surprise. It was like getting into friends-with-benefits relationship with this super-hot person and discovering they gave you herpes... not exactly advertised on the front page, and you didn't exactly prepare for it, but since you got there despite your best effort you might as well ride it all the way down.

Quote

Hi Sinij,

Your question has been received. You should expect a response from us within 72 hours.

Kind Regards,

Customer Support Take 2 Interactive

For Civilization V issues, we encourage you to view our dedicated support page at: http://www.2kgames.com/civ5/support/ which also has a link to our knowledge database of solutions. Additionally, we are active in the dedicated support forums at: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=86. Thanks for your patience.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on October 01, 2010, 11:13:21 PM
My fucking god, either you are just deliberately trying to be annoyed by everything possible, or you have the patience of a 3 year old.

No, I am pissed that I ended in this situation and now getting my money worth out of the experience with generous amount of forum drama. Added benefit is that some of the asswipes responsible for this fiasco read this site. Now if you don't mind....


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: caladein on October 01, 2010, 11:24:38 PM
And every so often if I get a urge to play sup com 2, I have to sit through an hour of steam patching the fucking thing and there's no option to turn this off.

Fuck. Steam.

Impulse, Gamersgate and GOG 4eveh. Why do you think Steam does specials? Because the other sites started doing them and they had to compete. Most of the good Indie stuff on steam you can get on the other download sites anyway, and anything that's not I can live without.

If you want Steam to stop updating itself, run it in Offline mode.

If you just want it to stop updating a game: right-click on the game in your list, choose Properties, go to the Updates tab, and select "Do not automatically update this game."

It's a very similar procedure in Impulse so I'm not sure why that's magically better.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Nevermore on October 01, 2010, 11:27:30 PM
IF I KNEW STEAM WAS INVOLVED, I WOULDN'T HAVE PURCHASED IT IN A FIRST PLACE but these sneaky bastards took me by surprise.

 :facepalm:

Quote from: The Freaking Box
Other Requirements
Initial installation requires one-time Internet connection for Steam authentication

Quote from: The Freaking Box

one-time Internet connection for Steam authentication


Quote from: The Freaking Box

Steam authentication


Those sneaky bastards!  I don't know where you bought your copy from, but it clearly indicates that it needs Steam activation both on the box and on Amazon.  Suck it up, princess.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: kildorn on October 01, 2010, 11:28:42 PM
I Bought Supreme Commander 2.

Took It home. It forced me to Install Steam. THEN IT FORCED ME TO DOWNLOAD THE WHOLE FUCKING GAME DESPITE THE FACT I HAVE THE FUCKING DISK.

I look on the forums and basically the only way to stop steam doing this is to fuck with configuration files and the registry. Whoopy fucking do. SO I had to wait 14 hours to play the game I had the disk for. Thanks a lot steam.

And every so often if I get a urge to play sup com 2, I have to sit through an hour of steam patching the fucking thing and there's no option to turn this off.

Fuck. Steam.

Impulse, Gamersgate and GOG 4eveh. Why do you think Steam does specials? Because the other sites started doing them and they had to compete. Most of the good Indie stuff on steam you can get on the other download sites anyway, and anything that's not I can live without.

You do know that's GPG's fault more than steam's, right? Some idiot decided that instead of finishing the game and shipping it like they did in the old days, they shipped, and then finished it.

So what you actually did was install 2 gigs of game from the disc, and then steam is applying the 2.2G day zero patch. Apparently this is avoidable (and results in a buggy game) by installing offline. But it's not steam going "you have to download from us, muahahaha", steam is actually totally agnostic about where the files are from. You can copy the supcom dir from one computer to another and it'll just download the activation information before starting up. It doesn't care if the file was made on X Y or Z day, or from disc WhateverTheFuck. It's just diffing the files and going "you need this that and the other" if anything's different from the master record.

GPG basically fucked physical customers (and digital ones, on release day: supcom2 preloaded the bad image, and then dropped said 2.2G patch on release day instead of uploading it beforehand and preloading the patch, too)


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Chimpy on October 02, 2010, 12:03:07 AM
Maybe this thread should get moved to the steam subforum now that someone has decided to get scatalogical about steam regarding a different title?



Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: NiX on October 02, 2010, 12:46:51 AM
Maybe this thread should get moved to the steam subforum now that someone has decided to get scatalogical about steam regarding a different title?



Or we can den it now that the novelty has run its course.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on October 02, 2010, 02:52:31 AM
Please don't, I'm starting to wonder how far sinij will pull his dramaqueening before his head explodes.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Der Helm on October 02, 2010, 03:00:16 AM
Thank you guys. This thread has kept me well entertained during work today.  :heart: :awesome_for_real: :heart:


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Kageru on October 02, 2010, 03:11:31 AM

Wow, buying a physical game disk? That takes me back to the old days.

Steam lets me go into (Australian) EB stores and just laugh at their range and prices. That's pretty much priceless in itself.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Sjofn on October 02, 2010, 03:48:00 AM
Hello, this is sinji we are talking about here. He has a similar relationship with the idea we like to call 'sanity' as Britany Spears does.

LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Simond on October 02, 2010, 05:46:36 AM
I mean I'm the biggest pirate around

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsJyfN0ICU
Better version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbq_1Wy70rE


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on October 02, 2010, 05:50:20 AM
That ninja is a pro dirt digger.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: CaptainNapkin on October 02, 2010, 07:29:06 AM
I mean I'm the biggest pirate around
:oh_i_see:
(http://www.saboism.com/files/pics/big_pirate.jpg)


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Segoris on October 02, 2010, 09:20:18 AM
That is the greatest god damn thing I've seen all week.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on October 02, 2010, 09:48:06 AM
Maybe this thread should get moved to the steam subforum now that someone has decided to get scatalogical about steam regarding a different title?



Or we can den it now that the novelty has run its course.

Or you can den everything you disagree with and end up Furry-central like Waterthread.

 :angryfist:


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: bhodi on October 02, 2010, 09:50:41 AM
That is an awesome picture.  Terrific, lazytown is stuck in my head now.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on October 02, 2010, 09:51:26 AM
I played couple hours of Civ5 last night. To my surprise aside from initial nag screen Steam did not rear its ugly head. I am keeping it offline permanently (and firewalled it on top of that). On other hand Civ5 sucks and with glitchy graphics, Civ4 was much better.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Sheepherder on October 02, 2010, 10:25:18 AM
Or you can den everything you disagree with and end up Furry-central like Waterthread.

This is the second time you said something to the effect, and we're not exactly sure where you're going with this.

This thread is pretty much all about you, and in the immortal words of Ironwood:

Hey, this thread is like a shrine to ME.  We have a summoning of me, a Magic Card of me, Slayerik posting with ME in his sig and finally Endie would have appeared to have kept the Surprise Cockfags poster I made ages ago.

If it continues to be all about me, I'll end up being the new Bruce and be deep inside a vole before you know it.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Malakili on October 02, 2010, 11:05:31 AM
. On other hand Civ5 sucks and with glitchy graphics, Civ4 was much better.
:awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on October 02, 2010, 11:13:37 AM
I just read Fallout Vegas going to use steamworks as well :( :( :(


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on October 02, 2010, 11:16:18 AM
OH MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED SEND FOR BACKUP DIG IN DEFENSIVE POSITIONS MAN YOUR NECKBEARDS


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Samwise on October 02, 2010, 11:27:26 AM
Wouldn't you neckbeard your mans rather than manning your neckbeards?


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: kildorn on October 02, 2010, 11:27:54 AM
I just read Fallout Vegas going to use steamworks as well :( :( :(

Because http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steamworks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steamworks) is awesome.

Err, wait, that's not what I meant. Steamworks is popular because it lets you completely remove distribution costs from your wallet (steam picks up the bandwidth tab in exchange for a cut of the sales), and keeps adding awesome features like saving games to the cloud (now I can uninstall/have my machine blow up and not only reinstall the game, but also have my saves back!) as well as simplifying the shit out of paid DLC. You know, like how bioware should have done the clusterfuck that is ME2 and Dragon Age DLC.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Yegolev on October 02, 2010, 11:40:12 AM
Wouldn't you neckbeard your mans rather than manning your neckbeards?

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/85916/ggggmaaan.jpg)


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Ironwood on October 02, 2010, 11:47:07 AM
Twice.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Chimpy on October 02, 2010, 02:05:36 PM
The SS fatguy picture.

It slays me.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Sjofn on October 02, 2010, 06:48:38 PM
Why wasn't I told this board apparently loves furries? Now I have to shop for cat ears or something to fit in.  :cry2:


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Chimpy on October 02, 2010, 07:23:34 PM
You have a rabbit avatar. I think you fit sinji's definition of furry already.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Bzalthek on October 02, 2010, 07:53:28 PM
Hey, if she wants to find cat ears, let her!


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Paelos on October 02, 2010, 10:47:31 PM
You have a rabbit avatar. I think you fit sinji's definition of furry already.

Uh oh.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Trippy on October 02, 2010, 10:54:00 PM
Furry avatars unite! Wait...


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Sjofn on October 02, 2010, 11:31:42 PM
You have a rabbit avatar. I think you fit sinji's definition of furry already.

Uh oh.

YOUR avatar is even wearing a HAT.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Azazel on October 03, 2010, 04:19:22 AM
Does BF:BC2 use Steamworks by default? It's on Steam for a damn fortune, but I can pick it up cheap from the UK so my wife can have a copy...


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: caladein on October 03, 2010, 04:53:45 AM
I don't believe it uses it at all since my version from the EA Store doesn't have any Steam functionality and it doesn't list anything on the Steam store page (http://store.steampowered.com/app/24960/).


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: WayAbvPar on October 03, 2010, 12:01:35 PM
Sinij, do you post prolifically on civfanatics? All your complaints are mirrors of a very vocal minority on there. Most 50+ year old shut ins, as far as I can tell.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on October 03, 2010, 05:39:30 PM
No, I don't post on civfanatics, but that doesn't make my issues any more/less valid.

2K games are yet get back to me on refund process. I am not amused.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on October 03, 2010, 05:59:10 PM
I am.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on October 03, 2010, 06:00:31 PM
So...if I'm reading this thread right, Sinij is a pirate who hasn't paid for a game in two years and is now bitching because The Man is trying to make a living?

Didn't notice first time around. No, I am not a pirate. My computer doesn't have a single pirated program or even P2P client installed.

I simply didn't buy or play any of DRMed games. Last game I purchased before Civ5 was Elemental.

I did the same thing with my music - when RIAA started suing and/or harassing people for copying music they *purchased* I stopped buying. If you don't play nice, you don't get my money.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: ghost on October 03, 2010, 08:34:57 PM
I simply didn't buy or play any of DRMed games.

That he knows about.   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Azazel on October 03, 2010, 11:29:22 PM
Thanks Cal. I'll make her try it out and see if it's a purchase!


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: KallDrexx on October 04, 2010, 07:26:44 AM
Impulse, Gamersgate and GOG 4eveh. Why do you think Steam does specials? Because the other sites started doing them and they had to compete. Most of the good Indie stuff on steam you can get on the other download sites anyway, and anything that's not I can live without.

Actually that's wrong.  Steam started doing sales because they did a experiment of putting Left 4 Dead (only available on steam) on sale for something ridiculous like 50% or more off for a single weekend and realized they can make more money by discounting games than by selling them at full price.  After that they got other publishers on board and learned how to do constant sales correctly.

It has nothing to do with competition, they know how to convince you to get your money.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Mosesandstick on October 04, 2010, 07:31:15 AM
Rather, they learned how to do it. Which is something pretty rare in this industry  :awesome_for_real:.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Malakili on October 04, 2010, 08:25:50 AM
Rather, they learned how to do it. Which is something pretty rare in this industry  :awesome_for_real:.

I think they realized that people just aren't going to pay full price for a lot of games, but that doesn't mean they won't pay ANYTHING for a lot of games.   There is a certain critical level where I'll buy almost anything I'm remotely interested in, but I won't touch most of it for full price.

If this becomes standard in the industry, i think it can only be a good thing.  I'm fine with shelling out full price for a game I REALLY want, and will play long term, and will play on day 1.  Other than that though, I have a hard time justifying.  Hell, you can get Global Agenda right now for 20 bucks and I still haven't pulled the trigger even though its one of the only games even attempting MMO FPS at the moment.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Murgos on October 04, 2010, 08:28:31 AM
I simply didn't buy or play any of DRMed games. Last game I purchased before Civ5 was Elemental.

I did the same thing with my music - when RIAA started suing and/or harassing people for copying music they *purchased* I stopped buying. If you don't play nice, you don't get my money.

I am Jack's massively overinflated sense of entitlement.

Just as there is no right to listen to music there is no right to play a game.  Suck it up and buy the goods and services that are offered to you that you want or don't.  This endless whining over something inconsequential is borderline psychotic.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: KallDrexx on October 04, 2010, 08:42:31 AM
I think they realized that people just aren't going to pay full price for a lot of games, but that doesn't mean they won't pay ANYTHING for a lot of games.   There is a certain critical level where I'll buy almost anything I'm remotely interested in, but I won't touch most of it for full price.

In my case (and judging from other posts on here) they are also good at putting games cheap enough so people will buy games they will actually never play.  They know the impulse prices for games and how to execute it.  I know I've spent about a good $100 on game sales on steam that I have yet to touch.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on October 04, 2010, 08:51:15 AM
I've tons of indie games I've barely fired up, if that. I've just bought them because, hey it's cheap, hey it looks kinda interesting, and hey it's an indie developer :shobon:.

There are also a few games I'm waiting for when they go below 20 euro or thereabouts before I buy them, even if they're "AAA" games, simply because I know that I'm currently too stuck with eve and minecraft to really waste money on full-price games I might not like.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: AutomaticZen on October 04, 2010, 09:11:36 AM
I think they realized that people just aren't going to pay full price for a lot of games, but that doesn't mean they won't pay ANYTHING for a lot of games.   There is a certain critical level where I'll buy almost anything I'm remotely interested in, but I won't touch most of it for full price.

In my case (and judging from other posts on here) they are also good at putting games cheap enough so people will buy games they will actually never play.  They know the impulse prices for games and how to execute it.  I know I've spent about a good $100 on game sales on steam that I have yet to touch.

Bingo.  I have at least 30 Steam games that I have yet to install.  Developers have received money for games I may never play.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Paelos on October 04, 2010, 09:23:54 AM
I'm willing to give anything a shot on steam is it's remotely interesting and under $20. That's been proven several times with games like King Arthur and Mount and Blade. I think it's a great thing that these guys get a shot.

Hell, I think if the Minecraft dude ever "finishes" his product he should go on Steam and sell it for $20 a head. He'd make enough to be set for life.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Malakili on October 04, 2010, 09:54:26 AM

Bingo.  I have at least 30 Steam games that I have yet to install.  Developers have received money for games I may never play.

I can't say I've gone to this degree yet myself.  Even if something is under 5 bucks I won't buy it unless I intend to play it.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on October 04, 2010, 10:05:04 AM
Not even "I've no idea what that is, but it looks like it might be interesting, and it's cheap as fuck. I'll purchase it and see how it is."?

That's dangerous, that is.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: KallDrexx on October 04, 2010, 11:25:13 AM
I can't say I've gone to this degree yet myself.  Even if something is under 5 bucks I won't buy it unless I intend to play it.

It's not really that I buy games with no intent to play it.  It's just that I have the desire to play it when I get a chance, and it's on sale for cheap enough that I might as well get it now for later playing.  .... And then I just never get around to it.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Sjofn on October 04, 2010, 12:47:52 PM
I can't say I've gone to this degree yet myself.  Even if something is under 5 bucks I won't buy it unless I intend to play it.

It's not really that I buy games with no intent to play it.  It's just that I have the desire to play it when I get a chance, and it's on sale for cheap enough that I might as well get it now for later playing.  .... And then I just never get around to it.

Yeah I've totally done this myself. I INTEND to play the game, then I never really do.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Prospero on October 04, 2010, 01:43:24 PM
I'm willing to give anything a shot on steam is it's remotely interesting and under $20. That's been proven several times with games like King Arthur and Mount and Blade. I think it's a great thing that these guys get a shot.

Hell, I think if the Minecraft dude ever "finishes" his product he should go on Steam and sell it for $20 a head. He'd make enough to be set for life.

He's making 350,000 a DAY. I think he's already well at that point.  :drill:


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Paelos on October 04, 2010, 02:13:24 PM
Nah, it's nowhere near that much. He's made about $3.2M if he's selling it for $10 a head in revenue. That's only 320,000ish copies. It's a great amount for one dude, but not nearly the kind of sales you'd get off Steam, distributed to a set audience, with solid word of mouth. He could easily crush 1M copies sold and live off interest for the rest of his life.

Gotta think big!


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Murgos on October 04, 2010, 03:09:28 PM
I could live off 3.2M for the rest of my life easily.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Chimpy on October 04, 2010, 03:15:25 PM
I could live off 3.2M for the rest of my life easily.

This.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Muffled on October 04, 2010, 03:22:10 PM
You clearly have more modest needs re: hookers and blow than many of us.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Paelos on October 04, 2010, 04:09:37 PM
You clearly have more modest needs re: hookers and blow than many of us.

Pretty much. Also, why not go for the gusto? It's not like he's paying anybody. Toss that sucker on steam, let them have their 50% cut or whatever, and watch the numbers while you kick back in your money hat.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: K9 on October 04, 2010, 05:26:47 PM
I suspect once you've invested yourself in a project like that, you can't walk away from it easily. I'm glad he's done well out of it.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Samwise on October 04, 2010, 05:30:29 PM
The Minecraft guy is expanding his operation, hiring people, leasing an office, etc.  I don't know if it's primarily because he wants a bigger money hat or because he wants to make the game better faster than he could on his own.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Daeven on October 06, 2010, 03:32:18 PM
All I know is that I was able to by the entire Xcom collection for $9.99 with the patches and windows compatibility and all of that. So  I could finally toss the floppies.

Although I'd kill for a ported version of Darklands with a graphics font and resolution that I can actually read.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: WayAbvPar on October 06, 2010, 03:58:54 PM
All I know is that I was able to by the entire Xcom collection for $9.99 with the patches and windows compatibility and all of that. So  I could finally toss the floppies.

Although I'd kill for a ported version of Darklands with a graphics font and resolution that I can actually read.

Oh god please! I tried playing it with DOS-Box but it was buggy as hell and only played in a tiny window. I loved that damned game.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Tarami on October 06, 2010, 04:22:43 PM
Nah, it's nowhere near that much. He's made about $3.2M if he's selling it for $10 a head in revenue. That's only 320,000ish copies. It's a great amount for one dude, but not nearly the kind of sales you'd get off Steam, distributed to a set audience, with solid word of mouth. He could easily crush 1M copies sold and live off interest for the rest of his life.

Gotta think big!
Well, he has made about half of that. The rest is taxes.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Daeven on October 06, 2010, 05:31:40 PM
Oh god please! I tried playing it with DOS-Box but it was buggy as hell and only played in a tiny window. I loved that damned game.

You can still find the 1.7 patch which makes it playable. But man. I just can't read that gothic font in whatever crappy resolution that is any more. :/


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Lantyssa on October 06, 2010, 07:24:58 PM
Well, he has made about half of that. The rest is taxes.
I'd still be set for life with that much.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: WayAbvPar on October 07, 2010, 09:30:09 AM
Oh god please! I tried playing it with DOS-Box but it was buggy as hell and only played in a tiny window. I loved that damned game.

You can still find the 1.7 patch which makes it playable. But man. I just can't read that gothic font in whatever crappy resolution that is any more. :/

Yeah, it is pretty tough on the eyes. I had a bug too where the entire screen on the text options would be black, but I could clear it with the cursor enough to read it. It eventually became too much of a pain in the ass to bother. Would love to see someone update it with new graphics and a better UI. The core game itself was awesome.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Yegolev on October 07, 2010, 10:45:30 AM
Where is this 1.7 patch?  I have Darklands on "COMPACT disc DIGITAL DATA" media.  When I was playing it, it would always crash as soon as a demon appeared in combat.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Daeven on October 07, 2010, 11:00:58 PM
Try this:

http://www.darklands.net/files/files.shtml


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Daeven on October 07, 2010, 11:06:53 PM
Yeah, it is pretty tough on the eyes. I had a bug too where the entire screen on the text options would be black, but I could clear it with the cursor enough to read it. It eventually became too much of a pain in the ass to bother. Would love to see someone update it with new graphics and a better UI. The core game itself was awesome.

I have been a smidge tempted by the idea of extracting the game files and wrapping it in ObjectivC or something. But then I remember I have a life and I'm not in college any more.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: K9 on October 08, 2010, 03:58:44 PM
Ok, genuine (minor) gripe about Steam; genre tags.

Case in point

(http://imgur.com/eOL84.png)



Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: caladein on October 08, 2010, 05:40:12 PM
I thought that might be a Sega thing but it's actually to do with the pre-order offer they have going for Football Manager 2011.  The game itself (http://store.steampowered.com/app/34220/) is tagged with just Sports and Simulation, but the "Here's some old Genesis games." pre-order gift/bundle/thing (http://store.steampowered.com/sub/6151/) has all those categories listed.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: K9 on October 08, 2010, 06:48:20 PM
Ah right, that makes sense then.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Miasma on October 08, 2010, 10:21:11 PM
I wish I could filter out all of those damn train simulation titles from the top ten new releases, coming soon etc. lists.  Same with magic the gathering expansion crap too.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: K9 on October 09, 2010, 04:34:14 AM
Yup, being able to filter just core games would be nice.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: eldaec on October 12, 2010, 04:30:47 PM
Ah right, that makes sense then.

Phew! I was just seconds away from uninstalling steam in protest.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on October 31, 2010, 11:10:10 AM

Hi Sinij,

Your question has been received. You should expect a response from us within 72 hours.

Kind Regards,

Customer Support Take 2 Interactive

For Civilization V issues, we encourage you to view our dedicated support page at: http://www.2kgames.com/civ5/support/ which also has a link to our knowledge database of solutions. Additionally, we are active in the dedicated support forums at: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=86. Thanks for your patience.


Month later:

Quote
Dear Sinij,

Steam will install first, and the game will install from the disk through Steam. Once this is done, you can place Steam in offline mode if you do not want to be connected to the internet.

Kind regards,
Jamie

Technical Support

I guess their approach is better late than never.



Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Ironwood on October 31, 2010, 11:12:20 AM
So it all worked out all right in the end.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: sinij on October 31, 2010, 11:12:56 AM
Yes, I returned the game and eventually got my money back. Had to get CC involved to get my money back.

Moral of the story - don't buy anything involved with Steam if you actually want an ability to return for refund.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on October 31, 2010, 11:24:24 AM
It's not like you can return PC games here in Norway after you've bought them, even if it is a physical game. "Company policy."


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Malakili on October 31, 2010, 11:29:07 AM
Yes, I returned the game and eventually got my money back. Had to get CC involved to get my money back.

Moral of the story - don't buy anything involved with Steam if you actually want an ability to return for refund.

Moral of the story, do 5 minutes of research before you buy something.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Rendakor on October 31, 2010, 11:31:14 AM
Moral of the story, don't feed the troll.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Musashi on October 31, 2010, 11:57:39 AM
Moral of the story, don't feed the troll.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Lantyssa on October 31, 2010, 10:43:12 PM
Moral of the story, laugh until you can't breath.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Chimpy on October 31, 2010, 11:20:05 PM
Or breathe, even.



Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Tannhauser on November 01, 2010, 05:34:07 AM
Don't be a wookie.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 01, 2010, 08:49:49 AM
Well played.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Merusk on November 01, 2010, 06:12:48 PM
Where do all these missing "E"s go to.  I sense a conspiracy.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Bzalthek on November 01, 2010, 06:17:38 PM
I sns a conspiracy too!


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Sky on November 01, 2010, 06:24:59 PM
I blame Lantysa.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: tgr on November 01, 2010, 06:27:52 PM
It was idnight, and the oon was up.


Title: Re: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.
Post by: Bzalthek on November 02, 2010, 12:07:34 AM
(http://www.sillylobster.com/m_pictures/thumbs/letter_thief_234235436.jpg)