Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.

[sinij]

What? RTFM?!!

/RAGEQUIT

What manual? It doesn't have one. There is DVD with Steam install and tech map. So is there a way to play this offline or not?

[Lantyssa]

No.  They've pre-banned you.  Return the disk.

[Paelos]

What? RTFM?!!

/RAGEQUIT

What manual? It doesn't have one. There is DVD with Steam install and tech map. So is there a way to play this offline or not?

I guess me saying yes to that same question 5 posts ago didn't get the job done. Stop being a moron.

[sinij]

Here is what I did after I read your "yes".

1. Run install again, this time when it realized Steam was already installed it went to ask me if I want to install Civ5. It didn't do it first time, only installed Steam. There also no obvious "install Civ5" setup file or option on the DVD, but looking at used space (about 3Gig) I knew Civ5 files are hiding somewhere.

2. Went through install, welcome FuckYouSteam1234 (FuckYouSteam was already taken, so was FuckYouSteam1, 2 and 3), newest "customer". Accepted all meaningless and non-binding agreements.

3. Activated Civ5 by typing code from popup (why do we need Steam for this?!)

4. Watched cool intro, quit the game. Browsed around Steam looking for "enable offline" option. Didn't find it.

5. Created desktop shortcut for Civ5 DX11.

6. Uninstalled Steam, it also uninstalled Civ5 without asking me. Assholes.

Do tell me where I went wrong.

[tgr]

Steam->Go offline

[Paelos]

Steam->Go offline

Yeah, I mean it's really in the first menu on the top left. Your reaction to this is akin to uninstalling Word because YOU COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO FUCKING SAVE RAAAAAAAAAWR!

[tgr]

I can understand raging if you buy f.ex assassin's creed 2 and end up being unable to play because your internet's down, but steam? If we ignore the whole euro pricing thingie, and a few minor things like how you can't sell games after you're done with them if you so choose (who does that anyways? but it would be nice to have the option) etc, then I'd say steam is pretty much perfect.

Well, GOG is probably absolutely perfect since there's no DRM there whatsoever, but good fucking luck in getting new games to go with them.

[Miasma]

It's okay sinij, I used to hate Steam and was aghast that people used it too.  But then I gave in, and all the hatred and indignation slowly flowed out of me as my library grew.  In the PC gaming apocalypse it's much more enjoyable to be one of the steam zombies than one of the handful of survivor hold-outs valiantly fighting against the system, trust me.

One of us.  One of us.  One of us.

[Lantyssa]

Sinij got PK'd and corpse looted by Steam.  Hahahahahaha.

[Sjofn]

Steam killed him in an RvR zone. 

[Wasted]

6. Uninstalled Steam, it also uninstalled Civ5 without asking me. Assholes.

That is where you went wrong.

Obviously. 

Though I suspect you are being deliberately stubborn to prove your point (you don't want steam) I'll indulge you.

http://www.2kgames.com/civ5/support/#systemreqs

relevant quote

Sid Meier’s Civilization V is powered through Steam, an online game platform and distributor. Steam allows for automated updates, easy access to DLC, and a quick way to join up with your friends for Multiplayer games.

Steam is required to play Sid Meier’s Civilization V, and an internet connection will be required only when you first run the game. See the Installation section for more details, or visit http://store.steampowered.com/ for more information about the service.

[ffc]

...like how you can't sell games after you're done with them if you so choose (who does that anyways? but it would be nice to have the option)...

I generally like to get rid of games after I'm done playing them but I have slowly come to terms with not being able to do that for much longer.

As for Steam's one-time online activation for Civ, it's pretty benign compared to other DRM schemes (e.g., Settlers 7).

[sinij]

I am not interested in changing my ways and not interested in giving Steam another chance. They destroyed my CS and this is very much unforgivable sin in my book.

There is absolutely no reason why single player Civ5 ever needs online access after activation. I am not interested in multplayer, I am also not interested in logging in every time I want to play. I am also not interested in Steam riding in the background when I am not playing any games. Steam *has to be* disabled, taking it offline implies that I first log in, then take it into offline mode then it denying me ability to play if I don't happen to have internet connection and haven't logged in in a while.

For example I don't mind Impulse, you don't have to use it if you don't want to past activation - you can go directly to playing game without ever dealing with it.

[Reg]

I understand your feelings and I even agree. But I expect that Steam is going to be the DRM of choice for a lot of popular upcoming PC games. You either need to get over your aversion or not play them. Or just pirate them I guess.

[Murgos]

There is absolutely no reason why single player Civ5 ever needs online access after activation.

I like playing games on my PC, I like the ease of use and features of steam.  Heck, the unified installer/patching infrastructure alone is worth a heck of a lot more hassle than steam makes and they provide so much more.  Companies also like steam because it cuts out a lot of overhead and provides them a measure of protection from the depredations of piracy. It's a win-win.

Steam, and similar services, are some of what makes PC gaming continue to be viable (even preferred to some extent) even with bi-annual pronouncements of the 'death of PC gaming'.

Enjoy the 20th century Luddite, I'm moving on.

[Malakili]

I am not interested in changing my ways

Ok, sucks for you then.  Seriously, most of us had this crisis 5 years ago, and then realized that it actually improved out gaming experience significantly.   If it makes you feel smugly superior not to have Steam installed, more power to you.  Meanwhile, I'll be enjoying my minimally intrusive (In fact, far less intrusive than many games that don't require it) PC gaming.

[tgr]

I am not interested in changing my ways and not interested in giving Steam another chance. They destroyed my CS and this is very much unforgivable sin in my book.

There is absolutely no reason why single player Civ5 ever needs online access after activation. I am not interested in multplayer, I am also not interested in logging in every time I want to play. I am also not interested in Steam riding in the background when I am not playing any games. Steam *has to be* disabled, taking it offline implies that I first log in, then take it into offline mode then it denying me ability to play if I don't happen to have internet connection and haven't logged in in a while.

For example I don't mind Impulse, you don't have to use it if you don't want to past activation - you can go directly to playing game without ever dealing with it.

I'm probably the one that's been railing the hardest against DRM the past few months, but I have to admit that Steam (and similar services) is probably just the thing to help PC gaming through the latest "zomg piwatez iz killing our pwofitz" craze (it certainly isn't the fact the costs have spiralled).

I've had one bad experience with steam, and that was at a LAN party. I downloaded the game at home, thinking that was sufficient, packed the computer down and drove to the LAN party, where the internet was down. I was completely unable to start the game, because no matter what I did, the game hadn't downloaded that final piece or checked for updates or whatever because I hadn't started the game the first time after I downloaded it. If I'd done that, I would've been fine.

Another time I lost internet for a full week, but I was still able to play all the games I had downloaded and started at least once, by just setting steam into offline mode. I haven't seen anything about this being time-limited, just that you have to authenticate and update the game before going into offline mode and you should be fine.

Now, having said that, I've found steam to be the best content delivery and maintenance platform I've used. Impulse isn't bad, but it's lacking somewhat in content compared to steam, and I haven't tried out the other alternatives, but I've bought so many small games by impulse while browsing around on steam, games I probably never would've bought if I were just browsing in a store. This is a good thing.

It's also way less obtrusive and way more flexible/forgiving than that piss-poor attempt at DRM which Ubisoft and EA came up with, and if I were to choose between EA/Ubisoft's way, and steam, I'll choose steam any day. I do not trust Ubisoft/EA to actually put money into supporting gamers playing "old" games, whereas I'd put much more trust into Steam doing that (since that's the core of their business model).

And as Numtini mentions, the whole "oh god where did that disc go" problem is gone. I've put up with that since that's what I saw as a valid tradeoff against piracy, but there's been a lot of times where I feel like playing a specific game, but I end up not bothering because the disc isn't in the drive and isn't on my desk at the time.

I only hope there'll be more high-quality providers to give steam some competition.

[Paelos]

I've switched computers during my Steam buying, and reloading my entire system has been a breeze due to Steam's library. I just set the games to download, walk away for a day, and come back with my entire system ready to play.

And since Sinij is still being such a whiner about it: Here's Steams Support page on exactly how to set offline mode for all your games.

Offline Mode allows you to play games through Steam without reconnecting to the Steam Network every time you wish to play - this is particularly useful if you do not plan on playing over the internet and would prefer not to download new updates for your single-player games.

Welcome to the jungle, baby. Try Google next time before you flip your shit.

[tgr]

It doesn't specify that you won't ever have to reconnect, but I'm assuming that's the case. I hope they'd specify it there if you had to reconnect, say, every 30 days to reauthenticate your game.

Quick ninjaedit: Actually, I'm going to test that out. I've a laptop which isn't doing much, I'll let that sit and stew on a game for a few months and see what happens.

[Musashi]

If you're mad at Steam because you think they're dirty DRM double donkey dicks, you're doing it wrong.  They are the Freedom Fry munching alternative to that.  Because if Steam doesn't give publishers a reason not to Starforce the shit out of everything, you can bet they would.  So pick your poison: Steam, Starforce, or pirate.  Otherwise, fuck you.

[Pezzle]

In my case it is irritating because if I wanted it on steam it is easy enough to download the client.  I wanted the disc and box.  I did not want them associated with steam.  Why?  Because I wanted it that way.  This is not some anti-steam rant, just a choice.  Having games not associated with steam should be a legitimate option.  The points about DRM are well made though.  This is what we get, meh. 

[Paelos]

It doesn't specify that you won't ever have to reconnect, but I'm assuming that's the case. I hope they'd specify it there if you had to reconnect, say, every 30 days to reauthenticate your game.

Quick ninjaedit: Actually, I'm going to test that out. I've a laptop which isn't doing much, I'll let that sit and stew on a game for a few months and see what happens.

As long as you follow instructions, are proactive about getting your games launched and to 100% ready when offline once, then save your settings and switch to offline mode, you are good for the long haul.

The people that bitch about Steam not working in offline are the ones who lose connection unexpectedly and never took the time to update their stuff while they had online mode on. That's why I always suggest to friends to run Steam in offline mode unless you are buying things, because that way you know exactly what will/won't work in advance.

[NiX]

In my case it is irritating because if I wanted it on steam it is easy enough to download the client.  I wanted the disc and box.  I did not want them associated with steam.  Why?  Because I wanted it that way.  This is not some anti-steam rant, just a choice.  Having games not associated with steam should be a legitimate option.  The points about DRM are well made though.  This is what we get, meh. 

A lot of Steam games can be bought as physical copies, unless you're referring to games bought over Steam, which is a silly argument considering the purpose of digital distribution is to cut out that cost.

[Nevermore]

I am not interested in changing my ways

And today in Bizarro World, someone longs for the good old days of SecuROM. 

[ffc]

There is absolutely no reason why single player Civ5 ever needs online access after activation. I am not interested in multplayer, I am also not interested in logging in every time I want to play.

Ok.  Here's an offline Steam tutorial.  After installing a game and doing the one-time online activation with no other preparatory steps taken:












Steam isn't just terrible DRM.  In exchange for it's one-time online activation requirement it has a host of benefits as outlined in response to your rage which makes it palatable or even beneficial to have.  You can even check and update AMD video drivers through Steam.  This is why Steam can be good while Ubisoft's DRM is all bad.

So pick your poison: Steam, Starforce, or pirate.

Pirating as an alternative to terrible DRM is one thing, but with Steam's positives as an easy download/storage tool it can be a better alternative to pirating. 

As for boxed copies it would be nice if Steam's default prices were lower than its boxed game counterparts.

[sinij]

A lot of Steam games can be bought as physical copies, unless you're referring to games bought over Steam, which is a silly argument considering the purpose of digital distribution is to cut out that cost.

I *specifically* purchased physical copy of Civ5. There is no way to install it and not get involved with steam. Even if you already activated/validated/whatever the game, you still have to install Steam, connect/update/patch and then and only then it might be kind enough to let you put it into offline mode, but it will work only if you did all these steps correctly, and you actually have to block it from internet for it to be possible, you can't simply tell it not to go online. How is this functionally different from malware/spyware?

I avoided games with draconian DRM, I will continue to do so in this case. Industry can DIAF, they are not going to get a penny out of my rather substantial entertainment spending until they can provide hassle-free experience for me.

Lets compare Impulse GalCiv2 installation with Civ5 istallation.

GalCiv2 - run DVD, optionally type in product key (it will work but won't let you patch until you do), optionally install and/or run Impulse. Play by running game directly or via Impulse.
Civ5 - run DVD, mandatory install Steam, mandatory create Steam account, mandatory type product key, mandatory run Steam to Play, doesn't ask you about connecting/patching.

Fuck. That. Shit.

[tgr]

And I thought I was being obstinate and difficult when I was all rawr rawr DRM IS EBUL when it was DRM which either had a limit on number of activations or demanded you reauthenticate yourself every x days or (lately) stay connected at all times. And it turns out I'm almost reasonable, comparatively.

How the fuck did that happen?

Quick ninjaedit:

I've switched computers during my Steam buying, and reloading my entire system has been a breeze due to Steam's library. I just set the games to download, walk away for a day, and come back with my entire system ready to play.

Actually, if you want to save yourself that day, copy all the crap off your old harddisks and either onto an external disk before reinstlal, copy everything back, and just reauthenticate them. Win.

[Big Gulp]

Fuck. That. Shit.

You will be missed.  

[WayAbvPar]

How the hell did you go the past 2 years without knowing Civ V was packaged with Steamworks? It has been   on pretty much every website that ever mentioned the game. I am also willing to bet that it is mentioned on the actual game box, so even if you just got off a plane from a desert island with no internet connection for the past 2 years you would still be prewarned.

[sinij]

How the hell did you go the past 2 years without knowing Civ V was packaged with Steamworks?

By a) not playing close attention b) assuming that buying DVD for a single player game will let me get out of Internet-only platforms like Steam

[Edit: Seems I am not the only one]

[Samwise]

[Pezzle]

That is really not the point I am trying to make Samwise.  Yes you can offline.  How about no steam?  Steam only obviously was not the end of the world for me.  It is contrary to my desire for this particular product though.  

[Samwise]

That is really not the point I am trying to make Samwise.

I wasn't talking to you.  You're an entirely different sort of crazy.

[tgr]

By a) not playing close attention b) assuming that buying DVD for a single player game will let me get out of Internet-only platforms like Steam

If you really think that buying DVD for a singleplayer game this past 1-2 years automatically meant you would get out of internet-only platforms "like steam", then you really, seriously, haven't been paying much attention. It began with Spore requiring online activations, and that was in 2008. It got worse and worse as time went on, culminating with Ubisoft and EA's latest "services". Steam is the benign cuddly uncle compared to those systems, because it actually brings a ton of useful features along for the ride.

Seriously, if you want to see where PC games were heading, buy assassin's creed 2, install it, start playing and unplug your internet connection. Watch what happens.

You're seriously at least 2 years out of date with how fucked PC gamers were getting.

[Pezzle]

That is really not the point I am trying to make Samwise.

I wasn't talking to you.  You're an entirely different sort of crazy.

Oh.  Ok then.  Glad we have that cleared up!