Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
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Some of you really don't live in the real world, having been in IT all this time. I can't think of a salaried position I know of where I worked 40 hours. Nor can I think of a salaried person who ONLY worked 40 hours and survived any round of cuts. Most places expect 45-50 hours per week minimum. That's 6 1/4 - 12 1/2 weeks of free work a year. Suddenly your $50k year a job is paying you an hourly rate equivalent to $40k.
These salaried people you speak of? They work for the wrong fucking companies. Really. I've worked for those wrong companies. The company I've worked at for 12 years now as a salaried worker (ad/marketing agency) rarely ever asks me to work overtime and when they do, I'm usually either compensated with a small bonus (rare) or I get some flex hours somewhere when the crunch is over. I think I've had to work overtime/weekends less than 20 times in my entire 12 years here. When crunches come, we've even hired freelancers to make sure the workers don't have to work overtime, weekends or holidays, or at least minimize that off time spent working. Part of it is that my immediate manager is also my friend of almost 20 years but it's also because when the timeline gets fucked, it's not usually his fault. It's either the client being goddamn insane or somebody between the client and the work that fucks something up. No, it comes from working in an industry with razor-thin margins. You can work overtime or be fired for someone who will because the company can't afford two of you. Mechanical, Electrical, Structural Engineers and Architects in addition to construction field supervisors all have this problem. Don't like it? Good luck transferring that $50k degree into another field. The best you can hope for is becoming a partner or starting your own firm and rolling the shit downhill to the next guy who'll have to follow the same path. We're not marketing, nobody sees value in professional services, all they see is another line-item on their 10mil construction project. Yes, there's companies that have lots of experience building and see value in a professional and are willing to pay for it. They are not the majority of people doing buildings. Those clients you find and keep and guard as jealously as you fucking can; until they too begin to ask you to cut your own throat to save some money.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Johny Cee
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3454
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Sounds to me as though you should create your own company and set up as a freelance PR and media consultant. It's basically sales without the horrors of retail, reasonably creative, you'd be working for yourself and you should already have a decent network by now.
Eric Schild Ocean Marketing?
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schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345
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I was waiting for someone to make the Ocean Marketing joke after Iain's post.
No, there's a reason I have no interest in doing PR. It's a field full of unmarketable people that is rivaled only by HR. Just horrible human beings.
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Murgos
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7474
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Mechanical, Electrical, Structural Engineers and Architects in addition to construction field supervisors all have this problem. Don't like it? Good luck transferring that $50k degree into another field.
Seriously? Any engineer should have skills that transfer from building design & construction to another industry. Is designing the power delivery for a commercial office building the same as designing power delivery for a PCB? No, but it's not so far off someone won't take a chance on you being able to learn. ME should be even more transferable. You may not get 150k right away but you won't be getting chump change either. The US is way short of qualified engineers. If you have an engineering degree and can't find a job you're doing it wrong. And Schild if you have a Comp Sci degree and can't find a job in Austin that's not at a game company you really aren't looking. Every major player in Semi-conductors, Space and Defense and commercial software have facilities there. Real scientific/critical system computer science, even at an entry level, is nothing like greasy code monkey shit.
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"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
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schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345
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I don't have a CompSci degree. I *was* on track to get one. Took a hard u-turn into Digital Media and Film immediately after I met other CS majors.
What an awful lot.
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Viin
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6159
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I know it's cheesy, but have you tried a career aptitude test? Now that you kinda know what you like/don't like...
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- Viin
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HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42629
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
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Sounds to me as though you should create your own company and set up as a freelance PR and media consultant. It's basically sales without the horrors of retail, reasonably creative, you'd be working for yourself and you should already have a decent network by now.
I hear the Avenger controller is looking for a new PR firm.
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Johny Cee
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3454
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Sounds to me as though you should create your own company and set up as a freelance PR and media consultant. It's basically sales without the horrors of retail, reasonably creative, you'd be working for yourself and you should already have a decent network by now.
I hear the Avenger controller is looking for a new PR firm. Okay, admit it you fuckers: There is a secret ignore button, isn't there?
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schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345
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No, it was an obvious joke and Haemish may not have seen there was a new page and has Quick Reply turned on.
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Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
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The US is way short of qualified engineers. If you have an engineering degree and can't find a job you're doing it wrong.
Or you got into that type of engineering because that's what you wanted to do. "I got into electrical design because that's what I wanted to do, not circuit design." I can't read all their minds but I'll ask one next time I'm around 'em why they put up with it. I suspect it's a passion for the product.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42629
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
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No, it was an obvious joke and Haemish may not have seen there was a new page and has Quick Reply turned on.
Didn't see the next page and it really was that obvious a joke. Of course, you need more roids and about 150 less IQ points to get the job, not to mention finding a lack of ethics somewhere.
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Xanthippe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4779
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The only other upside to Seattle, is that there is a massive startup community here.
It's also beautiful around Seattle. If you like fishing, hunting, or hiking, it's a great place to live.
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Cheddar
I like pink
Posts: 4987
Noob Sauce
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Opening in Pittsburgh for Verizon tech support (call center). Not the most exciting gig, but good pay and full bene's.
verizon.com/jobs
edit. This is a union position. It is better to apply sooner rather then later (do not spend a week tweaking your resume as that will only hurt you). Feel free to PM me if you have questions.
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« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 04:44:07 PM by Cheddar »
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No Nerf, but I put a link to this very thread and I said that you all can guarantee for my purity. I even mentioned your case, and see if they can take a look at your lawn from a Michigan perspective.
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Hawkbit
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5531
Like a Klansman in the ghetto.
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The only other upside to Seattle, is that there is a massive startup community here.
It's also beautiful around Seattle. If you like fishing, hunting, or hiking, it's a great place to live. I meant from a job perspective. Yeah, we moved to Seattle simply for the outdoors; the work thing is secondary. That's not really a false statement, either. Ahem. /seattlevoice: I mean it rains all the time here and is ugly and terrible and the people suck. Stay away.
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Lantyssa
Terracotta Army
Posts: 20848
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I don't have a CompSci degree. I *was* on track to get one. Took a hard u-turn into Digital Media and Film immediately after I met other CS majors.
What an awful lot.
I don't know about awful, but a lot of them certainly didn't belong there. I'm not sure if half my starting class could have turned on a computer, much less program one.
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Hahahaha! I'm really good at this!
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Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335
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CS majors are pretty bad.
CS attracts a lot of people who are interested only in computers. Like their entire life revolves only around computers - you go out to dinner and they can't do anything but tell computer-related jokes. In college I skipped most of my CS classes because the people were so intolerable. Like a professor is writing on a chalkboard, runs out of room, someone makes a joke about how it's too bad the chalkboard doesn't support copy/paste, then 10 minutes later people are laughing at that same joke.
That said I haven't really found the same thing to be true out in the real world. Probably depends on where you work but the concentration if socially retarded people was a lot higher in college than outside.
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« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 02:03:36 PM by schild »
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vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
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IainC
Developers
Posts: 6538
Wargaming.net
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Well yeah, because outside of college you are generally encountering the employable ones rather than the raging aspies who can't abide human contact.
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schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345
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The raging aspies either hide in engineering until they become a meme on the internet or stay back and become TAs and shitty associates in colleges to ruin the lives of the non-raging aspie computer science majors.
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Selby
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2963
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Engineering school was 100X better than the CS department. The CS department had a bad rap and most of the engineering professors made fun of how horrible the CS majors were. My engineering school was actually quite focused on making engineers who can present and socialize in groups and on projects, if you were an anti-social twit they actually enjoyed failing you until you got 3 strikes or figured it out. I have a CS degree and it was so painful to get that in addition to my engineering degree, it was almost a complete waste of time.
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Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280
Auto Assault Affectionado
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Someone went to Cal. I knew lots of EECS majors there who were a bit off on the social scale, personally. There's no doubt it was a more rigorous program than the L&S CS major but I have my doubts it produced more well-adjusted people.
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The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT. Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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Selby
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2963
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There's no doubt it was a more rigorous program than the L&S CS major but I have my doubts it produced more well-adjusted people.
My program just had considerably more interaction with people and projects and lots of weeding out that wasn't solely based on classwork. The weird imbalanced people in my years for the most part either switched majors or dropped out for a wide variety of reasons but being unable to present work effectively to a group was definitely one of the big ones for those who were just "into computers."
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Salamok
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2803
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CS majors are pretty bad.
CS attracts a lot of people who are interested only in computers...
The CS majors you really have to watch out for are the ones who aren't interested in computers.
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Rasix
Moderator
Posts: 15024
I am the harbinger of your doom!
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Yes, it was really fun carrying those retards through the 400 level classes. It got even worse in MIS grad school. Either they couldn't code or their code was so bad you'd just end up screwing yourself if you decided to rely on it. Everything was team based and the program was highly technical, yet you still got a lot of "herp-derp MBA with a computer" type.
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-Rasix
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Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335
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CS majors are pretty bad.
CS attracts a lot of people who are interested only in computers...
The CS majors you really have to watch out for are the ones who aren't interested in computers. Key word: only.
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vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
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Lantyssa
Terracotta Army
Posts: 20848
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It was the people who weren't interested in computers that worried me.
But then I only showed up to classes for the grade. I was a post-bac when I got my CS degree, and think I had more practical programming experience than the majority of my professors. (Which explains why the two lecturers I liked were part-time faculty who did programming for a living...)
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Hahahaha! I'm really good at this!
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Chimpy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10619
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Resurrecting just to say:
I got a permanent day job at the University.
It is not anything fancy (pretty lowly job doing clerical work at the health clinic) but it pays pretty good for the work and the University's benefits package is still really good. Plus, the whole "foot in the door" thing.
(still Sky jr. nights and weekends at the library too).
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'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
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RhyssaFireheart
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3525
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Congrats, Chimpy!
Now you've got to do what I say since my taxes pay your salary! *giggle* I've always wanted my very own minion!
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Chimpy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10619
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Tell old Pat to make the state pay the university the half billion it owes the U and then we can talk!
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'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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Yay bennies!
lol @ taxes paying for education
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RhyssaFireheart
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3525
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Tell old Pat to make the state pay the university the half billion it owes the U and then we can talk!
Bah, tell the board of directors and politicians to stop giving away free scholarships and tuition! Or something like that. Illinois is so fucked up which how we fund education around here.
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Chimpy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10619
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Yay bennies!
lol @ taxes paying for education
One of the bennies is a tuition waiver for classes at any state school. Cheap Masters degree here I come.
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'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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One of the bennies is a tuition waiver for classes at any state school. Cheap Masters degree here I come.
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Nebu
Terracotta Army
Posts: 17613
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lol @ taxes paying for education
I assume that you're being sarcastic. I hope that you're being sarcastic.
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"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."
- Mark Twain
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Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
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I think he meant that taxes aren't going to education in a significant amount, not that it wasn't paid for by taxes. A jab at underfunding.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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It means if it's not health care or military or corporate handouts, it's going away in our lifetimes.
We're on a year-to-year thing here at the library as we're being systematically defunded at every level, next year we only have a small amount of dwindling muni funding left.
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