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Samwise
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Reply #3605 on: May 22, 2019, 03:12:06 PM

I have no fucking clue what comes next, this is all of I've been doing for 17 years. It's going to be interesting.

My prediction is that you end up making a lot more money, because the longer you've been at a company the more underpaid you are, statistically speaking.

I decided to leave my job of 17 years a couple of years ago, and it took me less than a month to find a job at a lower level that pays more than twice as much as what I was making before.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
RhyssaFireheart
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Reply #3606 on: May 22, 2019, 03:33:28 PM

Yikes!  Sorry about that, Bunk.  May you find something with less responsibility that pays you more money, as Sam said.

Trippy
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Reply #3607 on: May 22, 2019, 04:04:19 PM

I have no fucking clue what comes next, this is all of I've been doing for 17 years. It's going to be interesting.
My prediction is that you end up making a lot more money, because the longer you've been at a company the more underpaid you are, statistically speaking.

I decided to leave my job of 17 years a couple of years ago, and it took me less than a month to find a job at a lower level that pays more than twice as much as what I was making before.
Note that Samwise lives and works in an area where demand for good people with his skills outweighs supply.
Samwise
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Reply #3608 on: May 22, 2019, 04:31:18 PM

Truth.  I doubt everyone can expect to fall ass-backwards into as much easy money as a software engineer in the Bay Area can, but I do see it repeated over and over that changing jobs usually results in a pay increase (in most fields). 

After you've been at a company for a long time it feels wrenching to leave (whether it's voluntarily or because the company went sideways and you had no choice in the matter -- for me it was some of both), but once the shock wears off and you take stock of your other options you might find yourself wondering why you didn't get out of there sooner.  It's a lot like a divorce that way.   why so serious?

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Bunk
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Reply #3609 on: May 22, 2019, 05:16:20 PM

I imagine that's so. Right now I'm just trying to et over the shock. This was both my job and my social life for the last 17 years. Fuck, it took me over an hour just to say goodbye to people and leave.

Hopefully ends up better in the long run - if I get a new job in a reasonable time frame, the severance will pay off some long standing dept. Just not looking forward to re-entering the job hunt at 48.

For now, I've decided to take two weeks for myself and chill, while it all settles in.

"Welcome to the internet, pussy." - VDL
"I have retard strength." - Schild
Yegolev
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Reply #3610 on: May 22, 2019, 06:03:47 PM

Crappy, but embrace the change. Unemployment is incredibly low here, hopefully that is the case where you are as well.

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Samwise
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Reply #3611 on: May 22, 2019, 06:28:30 PM

I definitely feel the intertwined social life thing.  The one positive aspect of everything falling apart at once is that a lot of your friends are all in the same boat and so you have a shared incentive to make the extra effort to keep the valuable social connections alive.

When my previous company went to flinders, we set up a Slack instance so those of us who were so inclined could stay in touch (there's a Facebook group too but Slack just works so much better for actual chatting).  It helped that about half the people at the company had themselves been refugees from an older company (before my time) that maintained a tight-knit social circle, so for many of us it wasn't even the first time going through this drill.  We still organize bar crawls and stuff as a group every couple months or so.  Hell, last month I chartered a giant fucking boat for an ex-work party because the company used to do fun stuff like that and I missed it.

All of which is to say, I'm pretty confident that nothing is as grim as it feels right now.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 06:30:12 PM by Samwise »

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Brolan
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Reply #3612 on: May 22, 2019, 08:18:35 PM

I imagine that's so. Right now I'm just trying to et over the shock. This was both my job and my social life for the last 17 years. Fuck, it took me over an hour just to say goodbye to people and leave.

Hopefully ends up better in the long run - if I get a new job in a reasonable time frame, the severance will pay off some long standing dept. Just not looking forward to re-entering the job hunt at 48.

For now, I've decided to take two weeks for myself and chill, while it all settles in.

Having been through this before I recommend you don't wait but go out and start talking to your network of work friends, friends, and family now and let them know the situation you are in, and that you need any leads they can give you. The longer you wait the harder it is to start and the less likely people are going to be motivated to help you. I would also work with a recruiter as they get a lot of jobs that never make it to any job board.
Shannow
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Reply #3613 on: May 22, 2019, 09:17:36 PM

That sucks Bunk, good luck. I hope they give you more than the bs line of '1 week severance per year of service'. If I hear another company say that I'm going to punch someone. That's a fucking corporate line that some HR arsehole came up with so that other corporations can cover their asses for being cheap.

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Samwise
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Reply #3614 on: May 23, 2019, 12:05:48 AM

That sucks Bunk, good luck. I hope they give you more than the bs line of '1 week severance per year of service'. If I hear another company say that I'm going to punch someone. That's a fucking corporate line that some HR arsehole came up with so that other corporations can cover their asses for being cheap.

My old company did that with the people they laid off, but they capped it at 5 because so many people had been there for more than a decade and they were THAT cheap.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Cyrrex
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Reply #3615 on: May 23, 2019, 12:56:49 AM

Ouch.  In my experience, the norm has been 1 MONTH per year worked although it will often cap at 6 months or something.  That's if you just get regular old "fired".  Restructuring often had people sometimes getting 1 to 2 years severance depending on position and lenght in service.  Socialism sure is evil.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Bunk
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Reply #3616 on: May 23, 2019, 01:57:55 PM

That would have been nice... policy is 1 week per year, up to 13 max, which I was at. They did however give me a further bonus (that apparently I can't legally disclose) + my vacation hours. It works out to be over 6 months. Plus most of my benefits and medical apply for sixth month as well. They also through in some job placement training/workshop service, which I'll take a look at.

Plan right now is to unwind my brain for a week or so while letting my extended circle of past colleagues know about the situation, and then start looking seriously.

Just had brunch on a sunny riverside patio, mid-week. So that was kinda nice.

"Welcome to the internet, pussy." - VDL
"I have retard strength." - Schild
Paelos
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Reply #3617 on: May 23, 2019, 03:44:41 PM

Sorry you got laid off that sucks, but I agree with everybody else that the workplace right now is extremely competitive and you're in a good position with that kind of severance.

Just declare this THE SUMMER OF GEORGE!

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Shannow
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Reply #3618 on: May 23, 2019, 09:13:27 PM

Wish I’d get laid off in spring or summer. Instead it keeps happening in bloody winter.  Now after 4 1/2 months off I get a job offer.  Which I’ll probably take but still...I want a summer off!

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Reply #3619 on: May 23, 2019, 09:51:38 PM

Sorry you got laid off that sucks, but I agree with everybody else that the workplace right now is extremely competitive and you're in a good position with that kind of severance.

Just declare this THE SUMMER OF GEORGE!

sorry, i've already declared my summer the summer of george

Cyrrex
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Reply #3620 on: May 24, 2019, 12:57:14 AM

I was in a similar situation some years back where I got a half year or so of severance, and it worked out that the severance ran out more or less coinciding with starting a new job.  Admittedly a bit lucky that it lined up so nicely, and having that 6 months off was fucking amazing. 

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Teleku
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Reply #3621 on: May 27, 2019, 10:42:17 PM

My offer letter to join the Foreign Service in July arrived to me in February.  So I quit my job in March and lived of savings just so I could fuck around for 3 months like the good ol' days.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
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Draegan
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Reply #3622 on: May 29, 2019, 10:34:21 PM

This day and age, everyone I talk to seems to abhor the idea of staying at the same job for more than 5 years. Seems like 3-4 is the optimal number.
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Reply #3623 on: May 30, 2019, 11:43:37 AM

This day and age, everyone I talk to seems to abhor the idea of staying at the same job for more than 5 years. Seems like 3-4 is the optimal number.

I'm that way and there's usually a reason. Companies don't give real raises anymore. If you want to make a leap in salary you need to move, because once a company has you they seem to think it's okay to pay you the same wage forever with COLA increases.

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Reply #3624 on: May 30, 2019, 11:54:31 AM

If you're getting COLA raises, you are lucky. I've gotten one half of COLA raise in the last decade.

Samwise
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Reply #3625 on: May 30, 2019, 01:40:49 PM

I'm coming up on three years at my current job and have definitely been giving that some consideration.  The main argument against it is that the hypothetical pay increase needs to be worth about a year worth of high stress as I acclimate to the new job, and the value of not having to deal with that is feeling pretty high right now.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Draegan
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Reply #3626 on: May 31, 2019, 07:25:15 AM

This day and age, everyone I talk to seems to abhor the idea of staying at the same job for more than 5 years. Seems like 3-4 is the optimal number.

I'm that way and there's usually a reason. Companies don't give real raises anymore. If you want to make a leap in salary you need to move, because once a company has you they seem to think it's okay to pay you the same wage forever with COLA increases.

Yup. My last job I was there almost 3 years, found a better job with a slight increase but large increase in bonus potential. It was a good move. The point though, before I left they offered me $15-20,000 to stay. I shrugged and said no thank you. I was out the door anyway. They should have offered that to me at the end of the year when instead they gave me a 2% or 3% salary increase.

My boss had the nerve (or ignorance? or naivete? he was a good guy, good boss otherwise) to say "I'm not sure what the going rate is out there. You should have come to me to talk about this before you decided to leave!"

Crazy. Like you should know what the competitive salaries are out there. You should have actually sat down with me at the end of the year to have a review when we were supposed to but you put it off. You really think an employee, of only 2.5 years is going to come to you out of no where and say "I think I deserve a raise!"

So you find a better job. There are a lot of them out there.

They still haven't filled my old position after 8 months.
Draegan
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Reply #3627 on: May 31, 2019, 07:27:04 AM

I'm coming up on three years at my current job and have definitely been giving that some consideration.  The main argument against it is that the hypothetical pay increase needs to be worth about a year worth of high stress as I acclimate to the new job, and the value of not having to deal with that is feeling pretty high right now.

Depends what you value more. Better pay or easy job. My first job I was ever in was for 9 years. I got comfortable and lost out on some advancement. I've caught up, but I see a lot of people fall in to that trap.
Samwise
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Reply #3628 on: May 31, 2019, 12:22:56 PM

I'm coming up on three years at my current job and have definitely been giving that some consideration.  The main argument against it is that the hypothetical pay increase needs to be worth about a year worth of high stress as I acclimate to the new job, and the value of not having to deal with that is feeling pretty high right now.

Depends what you value more. Better pay or easy job. My first job I was ever in was for 9 years. I got comfortable and lost out on some advancement. I've caught up, but I see a lot of people fall in to that trap.

Part of the calculus is that I'm thinking more about my exit strategy (which is currently about five years out) than about "advancement".   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?   DRILLING AND MANLINESS

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
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Reply #3629 on: May 31, 2019, 12:57:10 PM

Part of the calculus is that I'm thinking more about my exit strategy (which is currently about five years out) than about "advancement".   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?   DRILLING AND MANLINESS

Roger that. Congrats.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
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Reply #3630 on: May 31, 2019, 01:41:38 PM

How do you all handle vacation/time off negotiation when switching jobs?

My parents were blue collar workers that stayed at the same place for 25+ years. By the end of their careers they had 6-8 weeks a year vacation. We keep switching jobs and starts us over each time at two weeks. Then we have to negotiate for three and it only moves to four after five years.  By then we are usually long gone, starting the process over.

Samwise
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Reply #3631 on: May 31, 2019, 01:53:42 PM

How do you all handle vacation/time off negotiation when switching jobs?

In the tech industry the norm is "unlimited" PTO, which means no negotiation necessary for new employees and no payout necessary for departing employees.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Brolan
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Reply #3632 on: May 31, 2019, 02:03:26 PM

You make it part of the negotiation process with your salary.  Any agreement you make trumps the HR policy.

So when they make the salary offer you accept or counter that, then you make your vacation counter by saying you need to start at 4 weeks vacation and 5 by 4 years in. 
Draegan
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Reply #3633 on: May 31, 2019, 02:42:17 PM

I always start at 3 weeks, and go from there.

I personally don't need that much vacation since I don't take that many multiple weeks off. But on the other side, if I have to take off a day here or there, I just do it. I work from home and travel so I'm in a different set of rules.
Paelos
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Reply #3634 on: June 03, 2019, 01:12:25 PM

How do you all handle vacation/time off negotiation when switching jobs?

My parents were blue collar workers that stayed at the same place for 25+ years. By the end of their careers they had 6-8 weeks a year vacation. We keep switching jobs and starts us over each time at two weeks. Then we have to negotiate for three and it only moves to four after five years.  By then we are usually long gone, starting the process over.

3 weeks is the new baseline in the American white-collar world. If they are offering you two weeks for anything outside of entry-level college jobs? You politely decline and suggest 3 weeks as your starting point, 4 weeks after 2 years. If it's largely corporate this kind of thing should be standardized. As an example, Coca-Cola recently went to 3 weeks starting vacation.

Currently in my position I have 4 weeks as a new employee, 5 weeks after 4 years, and 6 weeks after 10 (which I'll likely never see so it doesn't matter).

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Paelos
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Reply #3635 on: June 03, 2019, 01:15:14 PM

Yup. My last job I was there almost 3 years, found a better job with a slight increase but large increase in bonus potential. It was a good move. The point though, before I left they offered me $15-20,000 to stay. I shrugged and said no thank you. I was out the door anyway. They should have offered that to me at the end of the year when instead they gave me a 2% or 3% salary increase.

My boss had the nerve (or ignorance? or naivete? he was a good guy, good boss otherwise) to say "I'm not sure what the going rate is out there. You should have come to me to talk about this before you decided to leave!"

Crazy. Like you should know what the competitive salaries are out there. You should have actually sat down with me at the end of the year to have a review when we were supposed to but you put it off. You really think an employee, of only 2.5 years is going to come to you out of no where and say "I think I deserve a raise!"

This is a good point and something I wanted to highlight. I DEMAND an annual review if one isn't actually standardized. I schedule it on the calendars and walk into it with an understanding that this is the time to discuss my performance and compensation for the year.

If your boss doesn't do one, it's fine to take control of the process and have it scheduled. They actually respect that kind of initative. Now, I'm not saying you will always agree, and a lot of people aren't comfortable openly discussing what's going on. If that's the case, it's a better idea to move than just fight against the system.

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Chimpy
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Reply #3636 on: June 03, 2019, 02:59:07 PM

Paid Time Off =/= vacation time.

Lots of private sector jobs have moved to that rather than separate pools for sick and vacation and it is bullshit unless they give you an amount equal or greater than the combined total of the two. It is also a way to get people to take less sick days because they don’t want to “lose their time off”.

I may not get paid nearly as much as someone in my position in the private sector would but having five weeks of vacation and up to five weeks of sick time a year is definitely good for the quality of life.

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01101010
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Reply #3637 on: June 04, 2019, 06:10:43 AM

Paid Time Off =/= vacation time.

Lots of private sector jobs have moved to that rather than separate pools for sick and vacation and it is bullshit unless they give you an amount equal or greater than the combined total of the two. It is also a way to get people to take less sick days because they don’t want to “lose their time off”.

I may not get paid nearly as much as someone in my position in the private sector would but having five weeks of vacation and up to five weeks of sick time a year is definitely good for the quality of life.

Amen. I work for Pitt and have sick and vacation time banks. However, UPMC employees (which I used to be) only get 1 PTO bank. Pay is a little better over there (depending on type of position), but not enough to compensate - not to mention UPMC is farming out most of it's work to contractors and a lot of those are "part time" staffing agencies.

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Paelos
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Reply #3638 on: June 04, 2019, 08:31:09 AM

I may not get paid nearly as much as someone in my position in the private sector would but having five weeks of vacation and up to five weeks of sick time a year is definitely good for the quality of life.

The reason many companies moved to one time bank is that employees were constantly having to make up illnesses when they really wanted more vacation time. Instead of that, they just went to one bank of time.

Granted if they are giving you less time than the two combined? That sucks, but that wasn't my experience in my industry, it was the same amount of time without the stupid "sick day" hoops to jump through or fake.

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01101010
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Reply #3639 on: June 04, 2019, 09:18:00 AM

I may not get paid nearly as much as someone in my position in the private sector would but having five weeks of vacation and up to five weeks of sick time a year is definitely good for the quality of life.

The reason many companies moved to one time bank is that employees were constantly having to make up illnesses when they really wanted more vacation time. Instead of that, they just went to one bank of time.

Granted if they are giving you less time than the two combined? That sucks, but that wasn't my experience in my industry, it was the same amount of time without the stupid "sick day" hoops to jump through or fake.

Yeah the UPMC people get screwed as they don't get nearly the same amount of hours per month as Pitt employees. Sick time, you get 5 when you get hired, and get a day a month. Vacation you don't start with any but get 2 weeks a year and 3 after 5 years. So currently I get 7.5 sick and 9.375 vacation per month plus 15 hour personal time granted each fiscal year to be used whenever on whatever. This is in conjunction with a 37.5h work week and my job is very liberal with time in office requirements (no official work from home standards).

My wife works as a contractor to UPMC and they are much more rigid with the hours but have structured in 2 work from home days. But as a PT contractor, she gets no PTO. Luckily I carry the insurance on both of us for dirt cheap. It's really the only thing postponing me from job hunting - but that is quickly changing given the leadership in my dept currently is crashing down.

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
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