Super Newbie

[Morfiend]

Hey gang,

So on a whim last night I picked up EVE to play with a few of my friends who have been really in to it lately. I played for a few weeks several years ago, so basically I am a total newbie. I have just under 1 mil skills points. I am hoping some people here can answer some questions for me.

Basically, I like combat, I dont really want to focus on mining or anything like that, although I wouldnt mind doing a little bit of it. I would like to fly a smaller very very fast ship. Probably DPS or support or both. My current character is Amarr Cyber Knight, and I seem to have lasers in all my ships. I think I can fly t2 Frigates (not totally sure).

Since my skill points are so low, I would have no problem rerolling, especially now that the character creation seems to have totally changed. Ok, on to my questions:

1) I would like to fly a VERY fast  smallerish ship. What ship should I go for?

2) I like the idea of a covops ship, is that compatible with the above, and if so, what race and starting character should I be?

3) I heard lasers are not very good these days. Should I go for something else?

4) I am hoping to make money ratting, and to do PVP with you guys once I get set up, if any of you are still playing. Can I make money mostly ratting?

I have read multiple newbie guides, but its hard to tell what information is still valid and what has changed.

Thanks in advance gang. I really want to give EVE a good try this time.

[Phildo]

1) Interceptors

2) Electronic Attack Frigates combine cloaking with PvP utility, as do Stealth Bombers.  Neither is quite as speedy as interceptors, but you can still get them moving pretty quickly.

3) Lasers are fine, although they're not great against certain types of NPCs.  Projectiles might serve you better in that sense, especially if you're looking to hook up with us down the road.

4) Yes, though it's not the best income in the game.  I've managed to mostly support myself through ratting and running missions for a few years now, although you will never be a multi-billionaire.

Do you know what group your friends play with?

[Sir T]

If you like speed go for interceptors and then interdictors. Dictors are vital in any 0.0 fleet. Minmatar are the speed kings, but Amarr are excellent.

Anyway in order

1) I would like to fly a VERY fast  smallerish ship. What ship should I go for?

Stilettos are one of the best interceptors, and that leads to the Saber, the king of the dictors.

2) I like the idea of a covops ship, is that compatible with the above, and if so, what race and starting character should I be?

The Cheetah is the fastest and most versitile Covops frig and is Minmatar also. And The hound os one of the best stealth bombers.

3) I heard lasers are not very good these days. Should I go for something else?

Lasers are pretty good. They have excellent tracking at a long range, and are very good for sniping. Artillery are good for a HUGE Alpha.

4) I am hoping to make money ratting, and to do PVP with you guys once I get set up, if any of you are still playing. Can I make money mostly ratting?

If you want to make serious money ratting then see about joining up with the guys in 0.0 and learn how to run anomalies. Doing it in high sec and low sec is basicly pointless. You could also see about wormholing.

[Morfiend]

Im going to sirbruce this.

1) Interceptors

Are they any good at combat? I'm still really new so I dont know what Interceptor "means". Fast and fragile? Good frigates for combat?

3) Lasers are fine, although they're not great against certain types of NPCs.  Projectiles might serve you better in that sense, especially if you're looking to hook up with us down the road.

Ok, Ill keep that in mind. What about missiles?

Do you know what group your friends play with?

I don't think they are playing with anyone right now. They only started about a week ago, although they both have characters from previous plays. One is a hardcore miner type guy, the other guy is trying to train up PVP skills also.

2) I like the idea of a covops ship, is that compatible with the above, and if so, what race and starting character should I be?

The Cheetah is the fastest and most versitile Covops frig and is Minmatar also. And The hound os one of the best stealth bombers.

What roll in combat do Stealth Bomber play?

3) I heard lasers are not very good these days. Should I go for something else?

Lasers are pretty good. They have excellent tracking at a long range, and are very good for sniping. Artillery are good for a HUGE Alpha.

I dont know what an alpha is. What type of weapons go good with the Stealth bombers or Interceptors?

4) I am hoping to make money ratting, and to do PVP with you guys once I get set up, if any of you are still playing. Can I make money mostly ratting?

If you want to make serious money ratting then see about joining up with the guys in 0.0 and learn how to run anomalies. Doing it in high sec and low sec is basicly pointless. You could also see about wormholing.

What style of ship is good for ratting or this wormholing? Is a small fast combat ship any good for this, or do I need like a battleship for the higher level missions and stuff?

[Phildo]

Interceptors are good at combat.  Each of the four races has two of them, one good at catching hostile ships and another that kicks ass in combat.

Missiles are great for PvE, but less useful than guns in most instances of PvP.

Stealth bombers, on the other hand, all use torpedos and bombs regardless of race.  They do extremely nice amounts of damage but are also incredibly fragile and often work only in specialized gangs.

Alpha means the volley damage of guns, as opposed to Damage Per Second (DPS).  Alpha damage is important if the thing you're fighting repairs itself quickly or is able to get away after surviving one or two volleys.  Artillery, the long-rang projectile weapons, have extremely have alpha values but a lower rate which is great in some situations.

For killing NPCs past the l1 and l2 missions, you're generally going to need a battlecruiser or battleship.  Later on you can do this with advanced Tech 2 or Tech 3 cruisers, but for the better part of your first year you won't have the skills to make it work without using a larger ship.

[Slayerik]

Offered Morph a nice specialized Caldari character to play. Up to him if he wants to use her :)

[Comstar]

Interceptors main job is to go really really fast and tackle the enemy with a warp scrambler. They use their speed and agility to avoid getting hit. If they get hit, they die. They are designed to hold the enemy in place allowing bigger and slower ships to kill them. They are not as vital in 0.0 warefare as they once were, and Armour HAC gangs tend to kill them before they get in tackle range, but they are still very much needed in a balanced fleet. They are also good at gate camping with fast lock times. Note the Minmater Frigate Vigil can be made to go nearly as fast at 1/10 the price - makes a good way to practice it.


Missiles are used nearly always in PvE because you can easily modify the damage based on the targets lowest resists. However, Drakes, the Caldari Battlecruiser, are used in PvP Drakefleets en masse as well. This makes training for a Drake a very good PvP AND PvE ship.


Covert ops are not designed to fight - they act as scouts. They move forward of the fleet to watch for ambushes or trail enemy fleets to keep tabs on them. They also can use probes to discover ships hiding or ratting in a system allowing the rest of the fleet to catch them. In a fleet action they will observe the enemy fleet and act as a warp in for the friendly fleet to engage the enemy at the best terms. You never get on a kill mail, but every fleet needs a few of them. Helps to be happy to fly by yourself and watch a hostile Titan in a enemy POS for hours at a time.

Stealth Bombers are covert op shops that fight. They often act as bombing wings - a FC will act as a warp in for a wing of bombers (one squadron at a time)( who come in cloaked, decloak, drop area of effect bombs, and warp out. 8 bombs each time can kill 100's of enemy battleships at one stroke. It requires precise planning, flying, timing and execution where the bomber pilots all follow the FC's orders exactly. It's the closest the game gets to Death Star Trench Runs.  Bombers can also jump through covert-op Battleship cynos and ambush enemy ratters and do large amounts of high speed damage to lone targets - aka Hit'N'Fade attacks. However they are extremely fragile, more so than interceptors.


Lasers are pretty good these days- the 0.0 fleets are often made up of Laser firing Amarr HAC's. They are also very nice in that you can get in a BC/BS/Dreadnoght and go AFK while the fleet shoots a Station or POS without worring about swapping ammo. PvE missiles or projectiles are slightly better.

Interceptors- Tech II Small guns of whatever type fits on the ship. DPS isn't really a requirement- speed (MWD) and agility is more important. Bombers- Bomb launchers and Torpedo Launchers, and using Covert Cloaks.


Making money ratting is very easy in 0.0. It's not the fastest way to do it, but it's straight forward. You want to be able to fly a Battlecruiser though, though you can rat in the lower level encounters  in a frigate/cruiser and not have to share them because everyone else will be running the higher level ones.


Any of the level 2 Battlecruisers (Harbinger, Drake, Hurricane) can rat in 0.0 - they can both have the DPS to shoot, the tank to fight and the cargo old to grab the loot. Also they are all good PvP ships which is handy. You can rat in smaller and faster HAC's later.


Don't be afraid of joining us out in 0.0 if you're worried about being a newbie. Goonswarm has the best wiki describing everything there is to know about the game and depends upon and lavishes praise, ships and money on newbee's (unlike some other alliances), though it's understandable if you want to play with your friends. You'll never be rejected from coming on a PvP op in a tech 1 frigate either.

[Morfiend]

Thanks for the great little write up Comstar.

What would you suggest for me to do to get started. Currently as I said I am an Amaar Cyber Knight, and I have rank 3 in most of the learning skills. I think I have Frigate 5. I currently have a Rifter, Predator, and umm, like 2 other ships.

Should I reroll my guy, or should I continue with this one?

What ship should I plan for in the short term / long term? I am really feeling a bit overwhelmed, so I need a short term goal that could also work towards my long term goal.

[Nefar]

Copy from my eve bio :

Morfiend deserted me  after 2 days of his trial.
That bastard!

[Morfiend]

Copy from my eve bio :

Morfiend deserted me  after 2 days of his trial.
That bastard!

This happens to be one of the guys I reactivated EVE to play with. I guess last time it didn't go so well. 

[Slayerik]

Thanks for the great little write up Comstar.

What would you suggest for me to do to get started. Currently as I said I am an Amaar Cyber Knight, and I have rank 3 in most of the learning skills. I think I have Frigate 5. I currently have a Rifter, Predator, and umm, like 2 other ships.

Should I reroll my guy, or should I continue with this one?

What ship should I plan for in the short term / long term? I am really feeling a bit overwhelmed, so I need a short term goal that could also work towards my long term goal.

Just play my character and hop in a Crow interceptor, Falcon recon ship, Cerberus HAC, BS 5 Raven with T2 missiles, Manticore stealth bomber....

Then your goals could be 'have fun' instead of 'wait a month before I can poorly handle 0.0 rats'. Just start PVPing with frigates and cruisers and once you feel more comfortable, you have the skills to do anything Caldari. For PVE, Caldari are awesome and you could start with missions to learn how to handle a spaceship. This isn't Wow, you aren't missing anything on the way to 80. This is a sandbox, and I'm offering you the stuff to make a sand castle instead of clawing at the sand with your bare hands.

Anyway, last time I try to convince ya :)

[Nefar]

I'd use his account.   This game is utterly horrible with the real time skill crap.  I'm doing nothing but mining to get enough money to buy a pvp character.  No way I would train a new character it just takes far to long which will just make you quit.

[tgr]

Mine your way to a PVP char?

Don't they cost a few billion? That's going to take a bit of mining... I'd rather suggest getting skills for a dc2, an mwd, web and warp disrupt and a rifter (for PVP), and salvage 1, tractor beam and cargo expand 2 (for salvaging), and come on up to deklein. It'll take a lot less time.

[Nefar]

Mine your way to a PVP char?

Don't they cost a few billion? That's going to take a bit of mining... I'd rather suggest getting skills for a dc2, an mwd, web and warp disrupt and a rifter (for PVP), and salvage 1, tractor beam and cargo expand 2 (for salvaging), and come on up to deklein. It'll take a lot less time.

I have a guy with a Rokh and Raven with o.k. missile skills.   I was trying out missions & salvaging with him but it took me an hour to an hour and a half to finish a lv 3 mission. (less it was a single battle)   Then it would take another 40+ minutes to salvage all the ships with 2 salvagers and 2 tractors.   I was making about 20- 25 million a run and using a ton of missiles to do it.   Needless to say that account ran out last week and it came down to choice of keep a miner account going or him.  I chose the latter. 

I could not stand the combat anyway, it was the most boring I've ever dealt with.   It reminded me of missile command from the 80's but 200x slower.   Watch the little red + signs, target,  fire.  Kill those and  it re-pops so I can kill 30 more ships. Rinse and repeat the next hour and a half.   I didn't even move my ship 99% of the time, not that you actually 'fly' the ship anyway.  The ability to use a flight stick would make combat so much more entertaining.   

Not that mining is anymore 'fun'.   I have three accounts for mining.  One is close to an orca (currently mines in a hulk),  second is in a hulk and my third is a few days from a hulk.    So my plan this time around is to mine, cover my time codes, and save profits to purchase a decent skilled pvp type pilot.   I'm assuming that 'pvp' will be much more fast paced than the pve combat.  Personally, I would like to have a decent pilot to hunt these hulkageddon shit bags next time around as well.

Least that's the 'plan'.  Overall I still feel I don't really know a damn thing about this game. I know there has to be some fun in here somewhere.  I don't do any corps since Morfiend bolted on me first time around and at that time f13 was in a middle of a war.  So I had to wait about 3 months. I did actually wait, however by the time the 3 months was over I had had it with the game and actually left the day I was going to get an invite.  I did look into some other corps to see what it was like to run in 0.0 space but quite honestly they all looked like a second job rather than a fun time.

As for the price.... Yes, looks like it averages 2.0-5 bill for a pvp pilot.   The highest I've seen is starting bid of 50 billion for a 100 Million sp character. So yes, it will be a little while to save that up ;)

[Kageru]

So I'm not the uber-noobie anymore? yay.

My advice is just ignore all the fancy ships the old-hands mention. They take piloting skills you don't have, they cost isk you don't have and can't afford to lose and they don't actually do anything useful at this point in your career. The base of everything else is having a decent ship that can do a bit of PvP without being laughed at, generate a revenue stream for you and let you explore the gameplay. And the sweatspot is the T1 cruisers -> battlecruisers because you can be flying one decently in a couple of weeks and they're really cost-effective. That let's you start saving for the next one after you get your current blown up.

Of course if you buy a leet pilot and people give you nice ships then eh, go with it. If not buying a single PLEX to start with can smooth the new game experience a lot. At the start there's a large number of pretty pricey things to buy (skill books, implants, ships + fittings, insurance). It's much easier to skip some of the lower tiers of grinding cash and move into a decent ship for higher level missions so you are earning more money / time.

The PvE is damn boring though, to the point where I need to have a book open during it. It's only fun relative to mining. I'm hoping being a part of an 0.0 space holding alliance is "fun" but I'm not overly optimistic about that.

[Phildo]

Empire isn't where the fun is unless you're in a wardec alliance or corporation.  Otherwise, empire exists as a place to grind in relative safety and make piles of isk.  If you get tired of mining and missioning, you could take a look at playing market games and trying to make a profit off of buying and selling.

But otherwise, the staying in empire without a corporation is the surest way to bore yourself out of the game.

[Morfiend]

But otherwise, the staying in empire without a corporation is the surest way to bore yourself out of the game.

Thats what happened to me the last 2 times I played the game. I really want it to be different this time.

So, if I was to create a brand new character for PVP, what race class combo thingy should I do?

[Kageru]

The character creation is largely irrelevant. The main thing it generates is a portrait and a name. Everything else you can decide while playing.

I would work towards Minmatar (more PvP oriented) or Caldari (more PvE oriented) battlecruisers because they can set their damage types which is a PvE advantage and have some ships that still show up in fleets and gangs (Hurricane and Drake respectively).

[Numtini]

I'd diddled around the game since beta and never could stand to play for more than a month at a time. I joined up with the folks here in Goons in January and haven't looked back. Get into nulsec as fast as possible. Getting repeatedly blown up tackling out here is more fun than anything I ever did in empire.

If someone's handing you a character, that's one thing. But don't take an existing character and "reroll" a new character, they're all the same anyway other than a day worth of racial skills. (Exception would be a really stupid name or a bad reputation.) There's almost certainly something there you can use. If your newbie is Amarr, you can be really useful in a Maller cruiser with a warp disruptor and a whole lot of armor. The fit is on the goon wiki.

[Phildo]

In the end, you'll probably be happier if you choose to go with Minmatar ships.  They require slightly broader skill training than other races, but they have no real deficiencies and are the best at a lot of things.

[Kageru]

And the Hurricane looks cool.... :)

I don't believe Goon's are recruiting, though "Test Alliance Please Ignore" seem like a fairly noob friendly / active / growing alliance and are goon allies.

[Phildo]

Relevant quote from the Goonwaffe newbie drive thread:

Alone, Eve is a terrible game. Horrible. This is not World of Warcraft, where you can solo your way through almost everything. You will be lonely and bored and will quit. This is an MMO, and as a Goon you have thousands of friends ready to shower you with help, advice and ways to have fun. You need friends and allies. And most of all you need enemies, too: they give you goals. Eve is, above all else, a game about the big story, and we have enough close friends and hated enemies to give the game its whole point.

E: Also, come play with f13.  We have access to TEST gangs, but we hang out in f13 channels as well.

[Morfiend]

Ok, stats.

On my older guy, I noticed I have perception really high, like 19, and some of my other stats at like 5 (Charisma). My newer guy I made has like 9s in almost everything.

Which is better?

[Kageru]

Stats are only used to determine the speed at which skills train. Each skill will use 2 stats and some stats (eg. Charisma) are very specialized (Leadership / Social skills) and so it is better to move those points into something which supports the skills you plan to focus on. Perception I think is fairly good for combat pilots (gunnery skills?).

Heh, that goon thread was posted today.

So to join -BAT- you need to join goonwaffe but -BAT- people can sponsor or do you guys run your own recruitment? Having to spend three months being an "active" participant on SA.com doesn't hold much allure.

[Phildo]

We have our own corporation independent of Something Awful.  It's generally open to long-time f13 posters and people referred by them.

Perception/Willpower are the most commonly used skills, but starting characters get two respecs so you can be a little more fluid at the beginning.  After the second respec you get a new one after a year.

[Numtini]

For where to go with ships. Short term, see how quickly you could get into a drake. Long term, look to get into Amarr T2 cruisers, Zealots and Guardians--they're essentially taking over the role of battleship for most fleets in nulsec.

[Endie]

Go here http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=19714.0

[mokianna]

I have an Idea, some may think its moki-ish, and that's ok. As a newbie, with the boring grind of learning skills, why not do some simple market trading, play the 1 isk game, with MY isk. Yes, that's right, I will loan you enough isk to be able to afford to buy your ships when you have trained the skills, and after paying me back, you should have alot of isk leftover.

How does this work? It's easy, train up trade to get a few more market slots, then pick a few...5 or so (depending on trade skill) T2 items that have a large (>10% ) difference between buy orders and sell orders. Place a buy order for say....10 of the item and find another item. Check it often via my orders tab and make certain you are the highest buy order (meaning you will pay 1 isk more than the next guy). When orders are filled, immediately place the item for sale and make certain you are 1 isk cheaper than the cheapest seller (so your item will be purchased first). You should make about 100,000 isk or more for each item that you buy/sell.

Whoopie, 100,000 isk is blah. I am currently running 10 items on buy/sell. Overnight my wallet increased substantially. For example, a few days ago I purchased a Jump Freighter for 3,300,000,000 and if I were not going to use it, could turn around and sell it within hours for 3,750,000,000. The more you have to spend, the more you can make. You cannot lose this way, the worst that happens is your (or my) isk is tied up in items as you play the 1 isk game.

This does give you something to do while training the boring learning skills, and does provide some 'passive' income between missions. This is not truely passive, as you do have to occasionally check to see where your orders are in the 1 isk game, but other than that, when the items sell, your wallet grows.

How do I get into this? Join us in Bat Country, then convo Mo Ki, its that easy.

[Morfiend]

So, I really like the look of the Amaar ships. Would it be a horrible idea to go that way over the Minmatar ships, or should I train up Min ships first and then later train Amaar?

Also, as to stats, I understand how they work, what I was asking is would it be better to have fairly even stats at the start or is my guy with the really high Perception and Int better.

Basically, I like the portrait and the name on my newer guy, but it seems like my older guy has better starting skills and stats.

My older guy has Amaar and Min Frigates at 3, and the generic flying skill at 5, along with several gunnery skills at 5, like lasers.

[Sir T]

Train both Amass and Minmatar to cruiser 3 and then train up Battlecruisers. That way you can fly both Min and Amarr Battlecruisers and can figure out which you like more.

[Numtini]

So, I really like the look of the Amaar ships. Would it be a horrible idea to go that way over the Minmatar ships, or should I train up Min ships first and then later train Amaar?

I'd just go for Amarr. I'm not sure if that's despite or because I'm a Minmater pilot.

[tgr]

I love my hurricane, and hug my hurricane, and call it Dirty Sanchez.

[Numtini]

I love my hurricane, and hug my hurricane, and call it Dirty Sanchez.

I love mine too, but it's not reimburseable

[Phildo]

Amarr is a great race as well, though if (when) you eventually come join us in 0.0 you might kick yourself a bit if you try to rat with lasers.  The rats in our region are not laser-friendly.  Still, don't choose your race based solely on ratting.  It can be done with all four races and you should choose the one with ships that you want to fly.

[Nefar]

Ok -- This was my main 'fighter' type account.   How would this guy do?   If I did activate him again what would be the best plan for him to work on?



Attributes
Intelligence: 24.20
Perception:   23.10
Charisma:     11.00
Willpower:    20.90
Memory:       24.20

Drones
Amarr Drone Specialization
Caldari Drone Specialization
Combat Drone Operation
Drone Durability
Drone Interfacing
Drone Navigation
Drone Sharpshooting
Drones
Gallente Drone Specialization
Heavy Drone Operation
Mining Drone Operation
Minmatar Drone Specialization
Repair Drone Operation
Scout Drone Operation
Total Skillpoints in Group: 650,806

Electronics
Cloaking
Electronic Warfare
Electronics
Electronics Upgrades
Long Range Targeting
Propulsion Jamming
Signature Analysis
Survey
Target Painting
Targeting
Total Skillpoints in Group: 627,773

Engineering
EM Shield Compensation
Energy Grid Upgrades
Energy Management
Energy Systems Operation
Engineering
Explosive Shield Compensation
Kinetic Shield Compensation
Shield Compensation
Shield Emission Systems
Shield Management
Shield Operation
Shield Upgrades
Tactical Shield Manipulation
Thermic Shield Compensation
Total Skillpoints in Group: 580,103

Gunnery
Controlled Bursts
Gunnery
Medium Hybrid Turret
Medium Projectile Turret
Motion Prediction
Rapid Firing
Sharpshooter
Small Hybrid Turret
Small Projectile Turret
Weapon Upgrades
Total Skillpoints in Group: 405,429

Industry
Industry
Mining
Mining Upgrades
Refining
Total Skillpoints in Group: 701,020

Learning
Analytical Mind
Clarity
Eidetic Memory
Empathy
Focus
Instant Recall
Iron Will
Learning
Logic
Spatial Awareness
Total Skillpoints in Group: 1,868,315

Mechanic
Armor Rigging
Astronautics Rigging
Hull Upgrades
Jury Rigging
Mechanic
Repair Systems
Salvaging
Shield Rigging
Total Skillpoints in Group: 141,741

Missile Launcher Operation
Cruise Missiles
Defender Missiles
FoF Missiles
Guided Missile Precision
Heavy Assault Missiles
Heavy Missiles
Missile Bombardment
Missile Launcher Operation
Missile Projection
Rapid Launch
Rockets
Standard Missile Specialization
Standard Missiles
Target Navigation Prediction
Torpedoes
Warhead Upgrades
Total Skillpoints in Group: 1,876,785

Navigation
Acceleration Control
Afterburner
Evasive Maneuvering
Fuel Conservation
High Speed Maneuvering
Navigation
Warp Drive Operation
Total Skillpoints in Group: 239,765

Science
Archaeology
Astrogeology
Astrometric Acquisition
Astrometric Rangefinding
Astrometrics
Biology
Cybernetics
Infomorph Psychology
Science
Total Skillpoints in Group: 886,714

Social
Connections
Diplomacy
Negotiation
Social
Total Skillpoints in Group: 191,849

Spaceship Command
Caldari Battleship
Caldari Cruiser
Caldari Frigate
Exhumers
Gallente Frigate
Mining Barge
Spaceship Command
Total Skillpoints in Group: 1,654,802

Trade
Contracting
Total Skillpoints in Group: 1,415

Total Skillpoints: 9,826,517
Total Number of Skills: 114