Bioshock: Infinite

[Surlyboi]

I liked Baseketball.

Hudson Hawk?

I loved Hudson Hawk.

[K9]

Ruin it for me please.

What the everloving fuck did I just read?

[Lakov_Sanite]

Bioshock is the M Night Shyamalan of games.

[Segoris]

I liked Baseketball.

Hudson Hawk?

It's like you don't enjoy good movies

[Fabricated]

I liked Baseketball.

Hudson Hawk?

It's like you don't enjoy good movies

I was thinking more critical/monetary failures rather than if it's good or not. Hudson Hawk/Baseketball are totally watchable but well, they weren't tremendous successes.

[Surlyboi]

Yeah, but most of the shit they've been pumping out of late hasn't even been enjoyable.

[schild]

That's a really terrible ending.

My choice to not trust Adam Sessler was correct.

[HaemishM]

The annoying thing there is that since you can't save the game (it only has a checkpoint system)

Welp that cements my decision to only ever buy this on Steam sale for at least half price or less.

[Paelos]

Are there any writers in this stupid generation that can write a proper ending?

[Nonentity]

I still expect all video game stories to be shit, this one was just slightly less shit and I enjoyed it for what it was, even though it was trying really hard to be deep and meaningful.

Like, maybe too hard.

[Tebonas]

I guess The Walking Dead spoiled me then, because it showed video games CAN have good stories and well executed endings. If some game on a budget can manage it, so should those big AAA titles.

[schild]

I guess The Walking Dead spoiled me then, because it showed video games CAN have good stories and well executed endings. If some game on a budget can manage it, so should those big AAA titles.

The Walking Dead spoiled you?

There's at least 30 modern examples prior to The Walking Dead that should have done that.

[Paelos]

I guess The Walking Dead spoiled me then, because it showed video games CAN have good stories and well executed endings. If some game on a budget can manage it, so should those big AAA titles.

That one had the advantage of hiring the writers from Tales of Monkey Island. I would hire those guys to write any game story over whatever assholes EA is employing.

[Tebonas]

Walking Dead was the first example that came to my mind. Feel free to insert your own favourites.

The point is that bad writing in games isn't something that is inevitable or excusable.

[schild]

At the very least, I feel like an example of good storywriting shouldn't be a licensed property where the core structure of the story is already done.

[Miasma]

I guess The Walking Dead spoiled me then, because it showed video games CAN have good stories and well executed endings. If some game on a budget can manage it, so should those big AAA titles.

That one had the advantage of hiring the writers from Tales of Monkey Island. I would hire those guys to write any game story over whatever assholes EA is employing.

Holy crap I forgot about the new monkey island, at the time I was excited but wanted to buy it whole once all the chapters were out, then forgot.  I now have something to look forward to this long weekend!

[Segoris]

I was thinking more critical/monetary failures rather than if it's good or not. Hudson Hawk/Baseketball are totally watchable but well, they weren't tremendous successes.

Yeah, I just didn't get that Colonial Marines was viewed as good, but I see what you're saying now.

Are there any writers in this stupid generation that can write a proper ending?

Finding a good writer is tough enough, finding one which can also write a proper ending is like trying to find a needle in a haystack where the haystack is made out of cowshit and whatever a sewer cleaner pumps out from under a brothel.
Though, I was also going to say the Walking Dead from what I'm hearing. Having established writers or a core IP doesn't change the fact that the story and ending still need to be executed well. As we've seen time and time again with EA and Bliz - having a licensed property (or any of the most well known or beloved franchises) does not automatically provide a fast path to a good story and proper ending.

[Riggswolfe]

I liked Baseketball.

Hudson Hawk?

Time to out myself. I quite like Hudson Hawk. It was a fun, silly movie. How can you not like a movie where they time robberies by singing a song? Where the team of villains uses candy bars for their code names?

[Shannow]

I liked Baseketball.

Hudson Hawk?

Time to out myself. I quite like Hudson Hawk. It was a fun, silly movie. How can you not like a movie where they time robberies by singing a song? Where the team of villains uses candy bars for their code names?

My name is Shannow, and I like Hudson Hawk too.

Arise my HH loving kin!

(I have actually used 'Swinging on a Star' as a lullaby for my daughter)

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'm gonna say Tomb Raider was a good story and before you stone me, hear me out.

It was concise. It was an Indiana Jones pulp adventure novel with a clear(predictable yes) plot line that told the story it wanted to in an exciting way.  The original bioshock had a "twist!" and that was nice and all, then the ending fell apart. Now it seems like they believe bioshock needs that twist to be good.  Tomb Raider shows you don't need twists or surprises, you don't need edgy and shocking reveals at every turn, all you need is to be concise and tell the story you want, well.

No I'm not saying there isn't room for more thought provoking games, certainly they all shouldn't be as straight forward as Tomb Raider but false depth is one hundred times worse than a simple adventure story.  Go look at the final fantasy series to see what I mean, all style and no substance.

Bioshock from a story perspective seems like all big ideas but then after all the set-up they couldn't figure out a good way wrap it up, which is arguably the most important thing.

[Paelos]

Writers today in shows, games, etc. put no emphasis on wrapping things up. They write terrible, grandiose stories with huge questions, then they provide almost no good answers to any of their crap because they NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THE ENDING.

Then, when they get caught doing it, they spew the same crap that it's all about the characters and the journey and blah blah blah. No, they suck. They deserve to be horsewhipped for not following up on the social contracts of storytelling.

[Lakov_Sanite]

LOST

[HaemishM]

I liked Lost's ending.

[Samwise]

[Segoris]

I was going to say Scrubs because it did have a great ending after a good long life (for a TV show anyways), but then I remembered season 9 which proves Paelos right.

If that season is ignored, as it should be anyways, then Scrubs qualifies. I believe it should anyways since what was originally the last season was during the writer's strike and switched networks yet still managed to be awesome.

[Khaldun]

Don't confuse setting, tone, and art direction with narrative.

You can have a game that has great narrative and shitty settings. Not common but it's possible.

You can have a game that has great setting, tone and art direction and shitty narratives. Much more common.

You can have a game that has great setting etc. and great narrative AND YET not be a completely great *game*. E.g. where what's great about it is not particularly game-like. See The Walking Dead.

A game that's operating on all cylinders where the writers understand not just what an adult emotion is like, what a sophisticated plot might be, and have non-derivative ideas about setting AND ALSO understand the structure of gameplay? Really rare. There's a reason why so many of us love Planescape: Torment so deeply.

[MournelitheCalix]

Just finished the game, the ending is really... strange.   That being said, I like this game a lot more than the original Bioshock.  Unlike the original I was never bored and enjoyed the narrative immensely.  Elizabeth was one hell of a character great job to the team on her.  I hope the direction of Bioshock from now on is more like this one.  One criticism I would have is that I didn't feel like I had any choice whatsoever after the first few chapters.  It would have been nice to have had more choices throughout the game especially at the end.  That is going to really hurt its replayability IMHO.  Now that being said there were some thing about the story I really have no clue on, specifically the endings, I was hoping some others who finished it could enlighten me:

[Riggswolfe]

You can have a game that has great setting etc. and great narrative AND YET not be a completely great *game*. E.g. where what's great about it is not particularly game-like. See The Walking Dead.

I think Deadly Premonition is the poster child for this kind of game. The game side of it is utter shit. The rest though is so awesome (and weird) that I can overlook bad graphics, bad controls, bizarre voice acting, inappropriate and odd music, etc.

[Margalis]

I guess The Walking Dead spoiled me then, because it showed video games CAN have good stories and well executed endings. If some game on a budget can manage it, so should those big AAA titles.

Being on a budget is a plus when it comes to delivering a decent story, not a minus.

On a production like Bioshock 3 you have so many moving parts and team members that there are bound to be different people working on it with totally different views about what the plot, tone, etc are supposed to be. The guy modeling the environment for a particularly section is often going to know fuck-all about how it ties into the overarching narrative. How often do AAA movies have good scripts? Big-budget games have many of the same issues big-budget movies have: too many cooks, strict adherence to convention, set-piece driven design, wow-factor over coherence, etc.

On a small production if the guy in charge is a decent writer or is working with a decent writer you'll get a decent narrative. On a large production even if you have great writers how they fit into the process is usually going to be very awkward.

Let's not even get into the issue of "video-gamey" stuff completely trampling all over what your story is trying to do. It's very rare to find a AAA game where form and function meet in terms of narrative vs. game mechanics. For example Tomb Raider - in cutscenes you're some innocent shocked person who is both opposed to and not good at killing, in the actual gameplay you're like the most cold-blooded and highly trained assassin on earth. A lot of game plots just don't work at all unless you consider what happens during gameplay essentially non-canonical. Usually the more serious they attempt to be the more ridiculous they become.

[rk47]

Press E to comfort Elizabeth

[Margalis]

I hate her character model so much.

[tgr]

Never say that in front of a chick with blood all over her and a pair of scissors in her hand.

[Fabricated]

This is a pretty fun game but I'm not sure why they decided to call it Bioshock anything.

[luckton]

This is a pretty fun game but I'm not sure why they decided to call it Bioshock anything.

"White Racist Killer Simulator" probably wouldn't have sold that well  

[Yegolev]

Can we call Colonial Marines gaming's "Baseketball moment"? Can SimCity be gaming's "Waterworld"?

No, we all agreed that Colonial Marines was bad.