Thor

[Mazakiel]

I'm expecting Iron Man to be essentially Malcom Reynolds, and everybody else having the weight of the rest of the Firefly cast. That is to say, plenty for the actors to chew on, but the story still centered on Iron Man.

Also, did Whedon write the toad line? I'd convinced myself that was a Halle Berry ad-lib.

I think he did.  I remember reading that whoever wrote it was pretty annoyed by Halle Berry on that one though, because they'd written the line to be delivered in a completely different tone than she ended up using. 

[Sky]

Because Halle Berry was a shitty Storm? Good riddance.

[Margalis]

Yeah, Halle Berry is totally to blame for that. A better actress would have made that line awesome.

Anyway as far as re-introducing the cast and such for Avengers, it can be done quickly. I mean everyone knows who The Hulk is. There have been movies, animated shows, a live-action show, "Hulk Hands", inflatable Hulk punching bags. Just the other day at the supermarket I heard some guy saying "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry" to a cashier. As far as stuff like Iron Man being an advisor rather than leader or whatever - how many people are even going to remember that, and how many would care if it was explained away with a few lines of dialogue?

[Velorath]

As far as stuff like Iron Man being an advisor rather than leader or whatever - how many people are even going to remember that, and how many would care if it was explained away with a few lines of dialogue?

It was a scene at the tail end of Iron Man 2 that was specifically setting up the character for the Avengers.  All that continuity they're trying to establish will be for shit if they can't even get the end of Iron Man 2 to flow into the beginning of The Avengers.

[MuffinMan]

These are movies based on comic books, I assume disregarding continuity is expected from both sides.

[CmdrSlack]

Also, the mass market is not us.

The vast majority of folks will go to see the kickass summer blockbuster superhero movie, not worry about whether Marvel fully developed the leadins to the ZOMG HERO MOVIE CONVERGENCE movie.

[Margalis]

It was a scene at the tail end of Iron Man 2 that was specifically setting up the character for the Avengers.  All that continuity they're trying to establish will be for shit if they can't even get the end of Iron Man 2 to flow into the beginning of The Avengers.

Again, how many people will even remember, and out of those how many will care?

Avengers Member: (Talking to Stark) I thought you were just going to be an advisor?
Stark: That was before I cleaned up my act.

Bam. Explained in two lines of dialog. Or "With my ego?" Or "And I thought Lindsey was a natural blond. (Raises eyebrow)" Or "nobody puts baby in the corner." Or "Do you know what happens to a toad when you hit it with lightning?"

Ok...maybe not that last one. Point is, it can be explained in literally 5 seconds. Sure, they could make Stark just an advisor, or start him as an advisor but it becomes clear that he's a natural leader or whatever, but if they want to just start with him leading the Avengers they can give him a single quip and Downey's charm and smarm can sell it.

[MuffinMan]

Yea, I think those after credit scenes are there so fanboys can crank one out into their popcorn and then go home to create Internet buzz.

[Velorath]

It was a scene at the tail end of Iron Man 2 that was specifically setting up the character for the Avengers.  All that continuity they're trying to establish will be for shit if they can't even get the end of Iron Man 2 to flow into the beginning of The Avengers.

Again, how many people will even remember, and out of those how many will care?

I guess I just don't really see the benefit of dismissing stuff from the previous movies that was obviously meant to be built upon on the basis that nobody will remember or care.  I realize this is just a "comic book movie", but lazy writing is lazy writing.  I'm not even trying to go comic book nerd here.  I was speculating how they're going to put the team together based on what they've built up so far, and the reaction seems to be "fuck all that, just have Nick Fury say some shit and move on to the action".  Is there that strong of a desire to just see two hours of the Avengers fighting people that any and all character development needs to be rushed through before the opening credits have even faded from the screen?  Maybe it's just me but Downey and Hemsworth at least both seem more entertaining in these movies when they aren't doing super hero stuff.  I'd settle for maybe three good action scenes and the rest of the time let the cast play off each other.

Yea, I think those after credit scenes are there so fanboys can crank one out into their popcorn and then go home to create Internet buzz.

 

I guess this is proof positive that people don't remember.  It wasn't an after credits scene.  It was the scene right before the credits.

[Ironwood]

Doesn't really negate his point tho.

[Chimpy]

Dear neckbeardy comic book types:

We don't read comic books, we know nothing about the 'backstory' of the Avengers, and frankly we don't care. As long as the movie has a trailer with buff dudes (and dudettes) fighting bad guys, explosions, and maybe a comic one liner we will probably decide to see the movie. As long as the movie is enjoyable and tells its particular story in a plausible way, we will be happy. We knew almost nothing about the X-Men and we went to see multiples of that and did not really care when those of the neckbeardy persuasion tried to tell us how 'so and so is going to become so and so" or "The movie totally broke from the comic on such and such plot item". We knew of Iron Man only from the Black Sabbath song. Captain America is a guy in a red, white, and blue suit. Most of us were not totally aware that there even WAS a comic about Thor, we just know of him as the God of Thunder from school. The hulk is a big green guy who ruins a lot of clothes.

Regardless of what you seem to need from a movie for it to 'work', we don't really care. We, the general movie going public, want a movie that removes us from our shitty lives for a couple of hours and is entertaining. Large numbers of us even like to see total pieces of storytelling garbage like Transformers 2. And you know what is 'great' about these little tidbits? We are the people these movies are made for because we pay the bills. So if the story does not 'develop properly' enough for you who hang out in comic book stores, it does not matter. The movie will make a profit and we will get our 2 hours of escape from reality.

Sincerely,

The majority of the real-world population.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Dear neckbeardy comic book types:

We don't read comic books, we know nothing about the 'backstory' of the Avengers, and frankly we don't care. As long as the movie has a trailer with buff dudes (and dudettes) fighting bad guys, explosions, and maybe a comic one liner we will probably decide to see the movie. As long as the movie is enjoyable and tells its particular story in a plausible way, we will be happy. We knew almost nothing about the X-Men and we went to see multiples of that and did not really care when those of the neckbeardy persuasion tried to tell us how 'so and so is going to become so and so" or "The movie totally broke from the comic on such and such plot item". We knew of Iron Man only from the Black Sabbath song. Captain America is a guy in a red, white, and blue suit. Most of us were not totally aware that there even WAS a comic about Thor, we just know of him as the God of Thunder from school. The hulk is a big green guy who ruins a lot of clothes.

Regardless of what you seem to need from a movie for it to 'work', we don't really care. We, the general movie going public, want a movie that removes us from our shitty lives for a couple of hours and is entertaining. Large numbers of us even like to see total pieces of storytelling garbage like Transformers 2. And you know what is 'great' about these little tidbits? We are the people these movies are made for because we pay the bills. So if the story does not 'develop properly' enough for you who hang out in comic book stores, it does not matter. The movie will make a profit and we will get our 2 hours of escape from reality.

Sincerely,

The majority of the real-world population.

   

[Sky]

I mean everyone knows who The Hulk is.

Bring back Lou Ferrigno, bitches!



Also:

Also, the mass market is not us. 

My fiancee and I were the only two that stayed in the theater for Iron Man 1's Nick Fury reveal after the credits. I then had to explain why it was so kick ass.

[Ratman_tf]

We, the general movie going public, want a movie that removes us from our shitty lives for a couple of hours and is entertaining. Large numbers of us even like to see total pieces of storytelling garbage like Transformers 2

Just drop acid. It's cheaper than movies and probably better for your brain.

[Velorath]

Dear neckbeardy comic book types:

We don't read comic books, we know nothing about the 'backstory' of the Avengers, and frankly we don't care. As long as the movie has a trailer with buff dudes (and dudettes) fighting bad guys, explosions, and maybe a comic one liner we will probably decide to see the movie. As long as the movie is enjoyable and tells its particular story in a plausible way, we will be happy. We knew almost nothing about the X-Men and we went to see multiples of that and did not really care when those of the neckbeardy persuasion tried to tell us how 'so and so is going to become so and so" or "The movie totally broke from the comic on such and such plot item". We knew of Iron Man only from the Black Sabbath song. Captain America is a guy in a red, white, and blue suit. Most of us were not totally aware that there even WAS a comic about Thor, we just know of him as the God of Thunder from school. The hulk is a big green guy who ruins a lot of clothes.

Regardless of what you seem to need from a movie for it to 'work', we don't really care. We, the general movie going public, want a movie that removes us from our shitty lives for a couple of hours and is entertaining. Large numbers of us even like to see total pieces of storytelling garbage like Transformers 2. And you know what is 'great' about these little tidbits? We are the people these movies are made for because we pay the bills. So if the story does not 'develop properly' enough for you who hang out in comic book stores, it does not matter. The movie will make a profit and we will get our 2 hours of escape from reality.

Sincerely,

The majority of the real-world population.

Very few comic nerds maintain the belief that the movies have to completely follow the comics.  If movies where completely locked into what the comics did, we wouldn't have the last two Batman movies among other things.  Most people didn't really even care that part of the ending to Watchmen was changed (in fact most of the criticism here was that it tried to be too faithful to the comic).  In short, I think you're arguing against a mindset that hasn't really existed since X-Men 1, or Spider-man's organic web shooters.  Also, I wouldn't brag about being one of the people that helped a shit movie like Transformers 2 make a profit.  If you can't come up with a better means to get two hours escapism than that, that's a shame.

[Slyfeind]

We, the general movie going public, want a movie that removes us from our shitty lives for a couple of hours and is entertaining. Large numbers of us even like to see total pieces of storytelling garbage like Transformers 2

Just drop acid. It's cheaper than movies and probably better for your brain.

"Is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark

[Ratman_tf]

"Is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark

Touche'

[Chimpy]

Very few comic nerds maintain the belief that the movies have to completely follow the comics.  If movies where completely locked into what the comics did, we wouldn't have the last two Batman movies among other things.  Most people didn't really even care that part of the ending to Watchmen was changed (in fact most of the criticism here was that it tried to be too faithful to the comic).  In short, I think you're arguing against a mindset that hasn't really existed since X-Men 1, or Spider-man's organic web shooters.  Also, I wouldn't brag about being one of the people that helped a shit movie like Transformers 2 make a profit.  If you can't come up with a better means to get two hours escapism than that, that's a shame.

I did not spend a dime on seeing Transformers 2 (unless you count watching it via a netflix rental because of the thread about the next one on here). I was not speaking for me per se, but paraphrasing the thoughts of the people who blockbuster movies (which the majority of superhero movies have been since Christopher Reeve was wearing a cape and tights) are marketed at.

You also missed the point that the "well they NEED to develop such and such or the movie will suck" back and forth in threads like this mean two things in the blockbuster movie business: jack and shit.

[Velorath]

You also missed the point that the "well they NEED to develop such and such or the movie will suck" back and forth in threads like this mean two things in the blockbuster movie business: jack and shit.

I didn't miss that point, I just don't see how it pertains to this thread.  People are arguing over their preferences for how they'd like to see the Avengers done (in particular how much or little time should be spent on putting the team together, and how strictly the writers need to adhere to what happened in the previous movies), but I don't think anybody here has argued that the success or failure of this movie is going to be determined by it or that they need to appeal to comic books fans or any of that shit. 

That there are blockbuster movies that do big box office numbers regardless of quality is a "yeah, no shit" argument.  Mind you most of us here don't get any of that money, so I'm not sure what you've got to gain as a consumer by championing movie studios' rights to make shit movies like Transformers, but whatever.

[K9]

Dear neckbeardy comic book types:

We don't read comic books, we know nothing about the 'backstory' of the Avengers, and frankly we don't care. As long as the movie has a trailer with buff dudes (and dudettes) fighting bad guys, explosions, and maybe a comic one liner we will probably decide to see the movie. As long as the movie is enjoyable and tells its particular story in a plausible way, we will be happy. We knew almost nothing about the X-Men and we went to see multiples of that and did not really care when those of the neckbeardy persuasion tried to tell us how 'so and so is going to become so and so" or "The movie totally broke from the comic on such and such plot item". We knew of Iron Man only from the Black Sabbath song. Captain America is a guy in a red, white, and blue suit. Most of us were not totally aware that there even WAS a comic about Thor, we just know of him as the God of Thunder from school. The hulk is a big green guy who ruins a lot of clothes.

Regardless of what you seem to need from a movie for it to 'work', we don't really care. We, the general movie going public, want a movie that removes us from our shitty lives for a couple of hours and is entertaining. Large numbers of us even like to see total pieces of storytelling garbage like Transformers 2. And you know what is 'great' about these little tidbits? We are the people these movies are made for because we pay the bills. So if the story does not 'develop properly' enough for you who hang out in comic book stores, it does not matter. The movie will make a profit and we will get our 2 hours of escape from reality.

Sincerely,

The majority of the real-world population.

 

[UnSub]

Yea, I think those after credit scenes are there so fanboys can crank one out into their popcorn and then go home to create Internet buzz.

Who has popcorn left over by the end of a movie?

[SurfD]

Yea, I think those after credit scenes are there so fanboys can crank one out into their popcorn and then go home to create Internet buzz.

Who has popcorn left over by the end of a movie?

LOTS and LOTS of people.  I work at a movie theatre, and it boggles my mind the sheer number of people who will spend 20+ bucks on obscenely overpriced concession items and then only eat half of them.  Hell, quite often they don't even finish their chocolate coated rasins / sweedish berries / Gummie bears too.

[Lakov_Sanite]

It's because there's little incentive to buy the small popcorn when you're already paying $5 for a fucking small, might as well pay 50 cents more for a ton of popcorn you won't eat.  The whole price gouging on concessions has got to be reashing critical mass, it's gotten disgusting.

[Typhon]

I liked the movie, was happy with their selection for Thor.  Natale Portman was a poor choice.  Would have rather they played Odin as slightly-unstable.  Really liked that Loki calls him out on "there had to be another reason".

Re: Tony Stark being 'just a consultant'.  The very moment this was said I chuckled - Tony's personality is either complete disinterested or all-in, there is no way he'd be a contributing consultant.  I thought that exchange showed some clever back-and-forth between the two egos/personalities getting to a point where they could work together.  Just more groundwork showing Tony saying one thing, but then doing another (like giving away the Iron Man secret)

[RhyssaFireheart]

Yea, I think those after credit scenes are there so fanboys can crank one out into their popcorn and then go home to create Internet buzz.

Who has popcorn left over by the end of a movie?

LOTS and LOTS of people.  I work at a movie theatre, and it boggles my mind the sheer number of people who will spend 20+ bucks on obscenely overpriced concession items and then only eat half of them.  Hell, quite often they don't even finish their chocolate coated rasins / sweedish berries / Gummie bears too.

Husband takes the leftover popcorn home, because he actually likes slightly stale movie theatre popcorn.  It's obscene how much things cost though, which makes me glad I have a large purse sometimes.

Since I'm fairly certain the husband won't go see this with me, I may have to go by myself this weekend and enjoy the beefcake.. err.. story and effects.  Yeah.

[shiznitz]

It's because there's little incentive to buy the small popcorn when you're already paying $5 for a fucking small, might as well pay 50 cents more for a ton of popcorn you won't eat. 

The fact that people bite at that reasoning is why so many Americans have credit issues.  It makes no economic sense.  People pay extra for something that delivers zero marginal enjoyment/benefit/utility.

[Minvaren]

My understanding is that the film studios take a high percentage of the door prices (I've heard of 90-100% rates for some hot films), so that the main way a theater makes money is off of the concession stand.  This study seems to agree.

That said, I get the jumbo popcorn myself and have it for a snack the next night or two when I go.

[Ratman_tf]

I think a lot of people see a movie as a trivial extravagance. Big box of popcorn! Big soda! Big spender! 

[DraconianOne]

 

[Velorath]

My understanding is that the film studios take a high percentage of the door prices (I've heard of 90-100% rates for some hot films), so that the main way a theater makes money is off of the concession stand.  This study seems to agree.

That said, I get the jumbo popcorn myself and have it for a snack the next night or two when I go.

I'm surprised somebody had to do a study for that as recently as two years ago.  It's a pretty commonly acknowledged fact about the industry.

[Teleku]

Huh.  Wasn't expecting this sort of reaction.  Normally I'm the person who is overtly accepting of movies!

It's probably because I saw this in France with all my French friends, but I didn't think it was very good.  I think this was influenced by all of said French friends mocking the movie the entire way through, then making jokes about how god awful the movie was the entire rest of the trip.  I think I enjoyed it a lot until the credits, when everybody I was with started pointing out how shitty it was.  

I was expecting a similar reaction here, but it seems not.  Overall, I actually enjoyed it, but it had some flaws that kind of ruined it for me.

[Margalis]

It is true that summer blockbusters can be bad movies and make bank but I'd prefer good movies personally. Velorath is not arguing that Avengers needs to be true to the comic, he's arguing that it should make sense in relation to the other movies. Which it should, even though it will make money regardless.

[Ratman_tf]

I think I enjoyed it a lot until the credits, when everybody I was with started pointing out how shitty it was.  

Maybe it didn't have enough cigarette smoking flimed in black and white for them?  

[Merusk]

When the French stop actually being the pricks everyone accuses Americans of being I'll start accepting their opinions of shit.  

[Slyfeind]

I thought they were pretty obvious not making Natalie Portman a love interest, and rather just a chick who wanted to fuck Thor.

Also, ooo, some French people didn't like something that came from America, directed by someone from Britain. News At Eleven.