StarCraft II

[Samwise]

In any event, I've been making a lot of mistakes myself today, but at least I'm to the point where I'm noticing what they are.  I'm not losing and thinking "well fuck, I don't know what I could've done."

I'm sort of drifting in and out of this thread, but didn't you say about a page back that you'd uninstalled and were done with this game forever?

[Malakili]

In any event, I've been making a lot of mistakes myself today, but at least I'm to the point where I'm noticing what they are.  I'm not losing and thinking "well fuck, I don't know what I could've done."

I'm sort of drifting in and out of this thread, but didn't you say about a page back that you'd uninstalled and were done with this game forever?

Yeah and then 2 posts later was like "Yeah.. I'll be back and I'm just raging right now" and deleted my other post because I didn't what to shit up the thread.   I've switched away from playing random since then and the game has been SO much better since.

[slog]

I'm seeing nothing but cheese now, especially against Protoss.  Cannon Rush,  2 Gate Stalkers, etc. 

On the plus side, I'm getting better at IDing and beating cheese, but I feel like Blizz kinda screwed up on this one.  The game shouldn't be about cheese as much as it is.

[Strazos]

I get the cannon rush part, but how is 2-gate stalkers cheese? Seems like a legit rush. That would be like raging against 2-rax marauders, right?

[slog]

I get the cannon rush part, but how is 2-gate stalkers cheese? Seems like a legit rush. That would be like raging against 2-rax marauders, right?

Because it's a guaranteed loss if the initial rush doesn't work.

[Rasix]

I get the cannon rush part, but how is 2-gate stalkers cheese? Seems like a legit rush. That would be like raging against 2-rax marauders, right?

Because it's a guaranteed loss if the initial rush doesn't work.

...

 

[slog]

Maybe it's a one gate.  I don't know.

All I know is that Zealots start showing up when I have 1 supply and 1 Barracks out and I usually die. 

I'm doing

10 Supply
12 Barrracks
13 gas.

And I'm already under Zealot attack and I'm losing more than I'm fighting it off.  When I do fight it off, I win.

So you tell me, what am I doing wrong?

[Rasix]

Post a replay.

[Malakili]

Maybe it's a one gate.  I don't know.

All I know is that Zealots start showing up when I have 1 supply and 1 Barracks out and I usually die.  

I'm doing

10 Supply
12 Barrracks
13 gas.

And I'm already under Zealot attack and I'm losing more than I'm fighting it off.  When I do fight it off, I win.

So you tell me, what am I doing wrong?

Well 2 gate zealots is a lot different than 2 gate stalkers.  One is an all in, the other is a moderately early pressure into robo or stargate build.  


Also, cheese is a LOT more viable at lower levels than it is at higher levels (though its still somewhat viable later).  Newer players are much more susceptible to surprise, you aren't as familiar with the timings, and most often pure army size wins.    If I see some sort of 8 or 9 gate zealot rush coming I plop down a gateway immediately and depending on the map might throw down an extra pylon or even another building to totally wall off.  If they are going this, its ALL IN, all you need to do is tough it out to win, and you can lose a bit and still tough it out.  Time is their enemy, so just delay them.  You can often actually get away with getting a super early stalker out about the time 3-4 zealots are coming into your base, and start chronoboosting out a second one immediately.  With no charge upgrade your 2 stalkers sill kill pretty much any number of zealots if you micro them, and meanwhile you can keep pumping out more of them and eventually over whelm them, push out, kill the proxy, and win.  

As Terran if you see it coming FINISH YOUR WALL RIGHT AWAY, and bring over 3-4 scvs to repair your wall while marines build.  Then, shoot the zealots in the face.  The key of course is seeing it coming, and since these kind of all in rushes are really only viable on the small 1v1 maps, you can send out a very early scout if you are worried about it just wen playing those maps.

Of course, knowing its coming is the key to all of this, if the first time you suspect all in cheese is when its in your base, you actually lost the game 2 minutes ago.


EDIT: One last thing about why its more popular at lower levels generally:  Its takes less APM, less awareness, and less skill in general to pull off early cheese than it does to defend early cheese.  Most anyone has the APM to build 2 proxy gateways and spam out zealots, however it takes more to defend it.  However, a bronze level player who practices 2gating every game is going isn't going to be appreciably worse at it than a diamond player in terms of the timing.   Meanwhile, a diamond player defending it is going to be signficantly more likely to be able to deal with it than the bronze defender.   In other words: The meta game really isn't the same across all leagues.

[slog]

I didn't save it.  I'll save the next one.

[Malakili]

I didn't save it.  I'll save the next one.

You're replays wil be saved by Battle.net (maybe indefinitely, maybe for a little while? I'm not sure), but as long as you played the game somewhat recently, it'll be there, and you can stil save it to your local drive.

[slog]

First thing I noticed is that I did double Barracks in order to pump out more Marines and still lost.

[Rasix]

The first thing I noticed is that you didn't scout and messed up your wall in.  One bunker or a non-botched wall-in shuts that down with at most 2 marines.  Your double barracks came after your ass was already toast.  

Your timing on everything just looked off (a lot of money doing nothing that early isn't good and a mistake I tend to make also)and your first marine was a little delayed.   The probe nearly sniping your SCV seemed to throw you off a lot.  

It was a cheeseyrush two gate that you didn't handle well.  It happens.

[Wolf]

zerg harassment: BANELING BOMBERS 

load up 4 banelings in an overlord - drop 2 on the left side and 2 on the right side of the worker line. POW. no workers.

[Wolf]

IEM Starting today

More info in linky, there's plenty of streaming starting at ~15CET

[Ironwood]

 


Nothing boring about the Nydus.

[jakonovski]

This is getting so meta. Apparently everyone's now wised up to the medevac drop and builds defences against it. So what to do instead? Why, go 3 rax and go knocking on their front door. Goddamn Zerg and their Infestors though. I had no idea how to counter them.

[Malakili]

zerg harassment: BANELING BOMBERS 

load up 4 banelings in an overlord - drop 2 on the left side and 2 on the right side of the worker line. POW. no workers.

I remember seeing some really sweet zerg saturation bombing in...I think it wast the HDH but I can't remember who did it.  It was brilliant and I think more zerg players should try it.  You can even do it mid battle if your micro is up to it, and bomb the crap out of those pesky terran.

[K9]

This is getting so meta. Apparently everyone's now wised up to the medevac drop and builds defences against it. So what to do instead? Why, go 3 rax and go knocking on their front door. Goddamn Zerg and their Infestors though. I had no idea how to counter them.

What ability are you trying to counter?

[jakonovski]

The one where they shoot a gazillion infested marines at me.

[Malakili]

The one where they shoot a gazillion infested marines at me.

Infestors are made of paper, kill them.   If they do the infested marines spam and you can't dela with it, run away, they only last a little while and then the infestors are out of energy.

[jakonovski]

Ohh, I thought they were permanent units. Not so scary anymore.

[K9]

Infested terrans are effectively immobile.

[Wolf]

everyone should watch WhiteRa vs TLO Game 2 from Group A of the IEM. Awesomest release game yet.

[Rasix]

everyone should watch WhiteRa vs TLO Game 2 from Group A of the IEM. Awesomest release game yet.

Is there VOD of it out there?  Yes, I'm being lazy.   

Better question: has WhiteRa managed to pull his head out of his ass yet?

[Mosesandstick]

When do replays go up? Livestream feed kinda sucks.

[K9]

Any link?

[Mosesandstick]

IEM Starting today

More info in linky, there's plenty of streaming starting at ~15CET

Goes to two feeds.

[Wolf]

there will be vods after, I think.

Madfrog vs TLO now, there will prolly be spoilers in commentary though. dApollo is doing a very decent job complementing Day9.

Rasix - Kinda, but no :)

[K9]

Ah cheers, could we spoiler win/loss discussion too please?

[Trippy]

Gotta watch till the very end (don't skip ahead on the last video).

HD Starcraft 2 TT1 v MasterAsia

1/4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEV9niTmeOU

2/4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aLBqeKd_lk

3/4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww_w7sh6NWY

4/4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOY2ve7zHb4

[kildorn]

Gotta watch till the very end (don't skip ahead on the last video).

HD Starcraft 2 TT1 v MasterAsia

1/4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEV9niTmeOU

2/4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aLBqeKd_lk

3/4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww_w7sh6NWY

4/4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOY2ve7zHb4

That is goddamned hilarious, especially the last minute.

[Malakili]

I think the most interesting thing is the prospect of draw scenarios.  That was basically a draw, but they just decided to make it not a draw because it was a ladder game that didn't really matter in the long run.  I wonder how something like that plays out if a few thousand bucks is on the line.

[Abagadro]

Blerg. Got posted to Gold and was running wild. Got bumped up to Platinum after just 10 games and am now getting curb stomped.  Can't seem to get units out fast enough so I definitely know where my game is falling down. I think I am going for multiple upgrades too early instead of getting units pumped out.

[Rasix]

Blerg. Got posted to Gold and was running wild. Got bumped up to Platinum after just 10 games and am now getting curb stomped.  Can't seem to get units out fast enough so I definitely know where my game is falling down. I think I am going for multiple upgrades too early instead of getting units pumped out.

Better than getting bumped from Silver to Plat. The ass kicking I've been receiving is just humbling.  Of course, that's resulted in less practicing, which has resulted in more ass kicking. 

/looks at his PS2 backlog.