StarCraft II

[Mosesandstick]

My impression of the Blizzard trailers has always been that seems really spoilery... then you play the game and it's just a small bit of the puzzle.

[Ratman_tf]

It does ruin the story and I'm kinda glad that I know it now.  Her going back to the zerg is just really hacky and makes the plot so bad I might not buy it now.  Could they not come up with any more interesting way to be commanding zerg forces?  It's an rts so most people won't care but it makes everything you did in the last game pointless at best and disastrous at worst.

[goishen]

It does ruin the story and I'm kinda glad that I know it now.  Her going back to the zerg is just really hacky and makes the plot so bad I might not buy it now.  Could they not come up with any more interesting way to be commanding zerg forces?  It's an rts so most people won't care but it makes everything you did in the last game pointless at best and disastrous at worst.

Blizzard isn't known for their ability to write themselves out of a wet paper sack.

[Maledict]

And yet the original Starcraft + Broodwar has easily the best storyline in an RTS, and one that's stuck with me for years just because how well put together it was.

Even Warcraft 2 was good in the storyline department - wonder what went wrong down the line?

[Kail]

And yet the original Starcraft + Broodwar has easily the best storyline in an RTS, and one that's stuck with me for years just because how well put together it was.

Even Warcraft 2 was good in the storyline department - wonder what went wrong down the line?

I think it's more that Blizzard were good with single shot, short arc "movie style" stories, until WoW came along and they had to switch to this comic book style "keep it going forever without really being able to change anything" style of writing to make the setting fit the genre of the game.

I haven't played D3, but SC2 definitely felt like more of that, trying to be all very character focused and small scale, and I don't think it really worked in the context of the "here's a million disposable space marines" mechanics of SC2.  Unless I'm misremembering it, which I could easily be.

[Paelos]

D3 actually made a story about fighting demons spewing from the burning hells seem trite and bland.

It's almost an amazing feat if you really think about it. Anything involving that setup sounds cool, and yet we go sidekicked by one of one of the worst female characters in a Blizzard story.

[Malakili]

D3 actually made a story about fighting demons spewing from the burning hells seem trite and bland.

It's almost an amazing feat if you really think about it. Anything involving that setup sounds cool, and yet we go sidekicked by one of one of the worst female characters in a Blizzard story.

I think part of it is actually that they are doing TOO much.  If you think about something like Diablo 2 compared to Diablo 3.  D2 had very "minimal" story.  You had 6 quests per act, some general story arc points, and that was it.  You filled in a LOT with your own experience/gameplay.  In Diablo 3 every little thing is spelled out for you in a quest, which makes it feel a lot less like an epic story of which you are a part/even a contributor.  They break it down into so many small tasks that the whole thing feels trivialized to me.

Furthermore, Diablo 2 had this dual story line.  You, the hero, and Diablo whose story was told through the cutscenes between acts (and then the two story lines clash at the end of act 3, and through Act 4).  In Diablo 3, the Only real story is LEAH'S (Diablo's) story.  That is the story they want to tell, it isn't YOUR story for the most part.

[Megrim]

So does anyone know of any good streams to watch, for gameplay of the new Starcraft expansion?

[Malakili]

So does anyone know of any good streams to watch, for gameplay of the new Starcraft expansion?

The beta servers are down now, so I don't think as many people are streaming anymore, although there are still some servers up for the pro games.  You can browse teevox.com to see if anyone is showing it.  If you are looking for single player, basically nothing has been revealed.

[Megrim]

Cool, I'll have a look when I get a chance. I'm looking for multi btw, since I couldn't give a rat's arse about the sp.

[K9]

HuskyStarcraft has been doing good coverage of Beta games on his YouTube channel

[Soulflame]

I was going to mention Husky, but I see that's been taken care of...

[Malakili]

Oh yeah, I'm an idiot.  All the move towards live streaming these days has practically made me forget that youtube VODs are still a thing.  Day9 also did lots of Heart of the Swarm dailies, which you can find at blip.tv/day9tv

[Fordel]

And yet the original Starcraft + Broodwar has easily the best storyline in an RTS, and one that's stuck with me for years just because how well put together it was.

Even Warcraft 2 was good in the storyline department - wonder what went wrong down the line?

When was the last time you actually experienced any of those stories? W2, Sc1, especially BW, all those stories if you played through them now, would not stand the test of time. I can virtually guarantee it.


Most of us played those games in our what, teens? Pre-Teens? Maybe some of you old timers hit it in your college years. It's Dragonlance syndrome, you loved it when you were 14. Now? Man, I was a stupid kid 




As to streams, as always, http://www.teamliquid.net/ will have all the relevant ones up on the side bar.

[Paelos]

W2 has virtually no story. It's orcs streaming out of a portal.

Starcraft had a story, but I honestly couldn't tell you jack shit about it without looking it up.

[Job601]

Pretty much the only Blizzard game which effectively tells a story is Warcraft 3, and even there the dialogue is pretty cheesy and the characters are pretty thin.  I think that the thing people like about Blizzard's storytelling is the way the mechanics of their games reflect the flavor.  Playing as Zerg really feels like you're controlling a swarm, etc.

[Trippy]

I played through SC + BW three times for the story

[Rendakor]

I played through SC + BW three times for the story

Same, although I used cheat codes when playing as the Terran and Toss since I can really only play as Zerg well. Did SC2 have cheats for the single player? I never finished it because I just don't like playing as Terrans.

[Malakili]

I played through SC + BW three times for the story

Same, although I used cheat codes when playing as the Terran and Toss since I can really only play as Zerg well. Did SC2 have cheats for the single player? I never finished it because I just don't like playing as Terrans.

No, but playing it on the easiest difficulty is really really easy.

[Maledict]

Pretty much the only Blizzard game which effectively tells a story is Warcraft 3, and even there the dialogue is pretty cheesy and the characters are pretty thin.  I think that the thing people like about Blizzard's storytelling is the way the mechanics of their games reflect the flavor.  Playing as Zerg really feels like you're controlling a swarm, etc.

Whilst I thought Warcraft 3 was the first time their storytelling started to slip and vanish down a hole. Wasn't anywhere near as bad as later products but still felt weaker than SC etc.

Clearly different opinions as to what counts as a story though - don't know how anyone could play Starcraft and not remember the story, it was easily one of the best bits about it and still stands alone as the best RTS storyline ever by a long way.

[Teleku]

Yeah, SC had a story that was enjoyable really enhanced the game.  Even if more simplistically told, I actually liked the story of Warcraft 2 as well, and remember being pretty bummed when Lothar died.

[Special J]

So SC2 is 20 bucks right now.  I'm not huge fan playing RTS online so it would mainly be for the single player campaign.  Is it alright?

[Soulflame]

Yes.

[Maledict]

And yet the original Starcraft + Broodwar has easily the best storyline in an RTS, and one that's stuck with me for years just because how well put together it was.

Even Warcraft 2 was good in the storyline department - wonder what went wrong down the line?

When was the last time you actually experienced any of those stories? W2, Sc1, especially BW, all those stories if you played through them now, would not stand the test of time. I can virtually guarantee it.


Most of us played those games in our what, teens? Pre-Teens? Maybe some of you old timers hit it in your college years. It's Dragonlance syndrome, you loved it when you were 14. Now? Man, I was a stupid kid 




As to streams, as always, http://www.teamliquid.net/ will have all the relevant ones up on the side bar.

Sorry missed this - I replayed Starcraft last year actually. Story absolutely stands the test of time, and I love the presentation method which really helps (the pre-mission voiced commentary by all the different leaders of each faction worked really well).

[K9]

So SC2 is 20 bucks right now.  I'm not huge fan playing RTS online so it would mainly be for the single player campaign.  Is it alright?

The single player is really polished. The plot is pretty derpy, but the gameplay itself is pretty exceptional. There are also a ton of single player modes outside of the campaign that add on some extra hours of play.

[Setanta]

Yeah, the SC/BW story stands up well all things considered. The WC3/TFT although slightly-Metzen was enjoyable and fun and they even integrated a panda into it without boning the whole game. I'd rate the SC2 writing to be close to the WC3 but with the added bonus of slight choices.

D2/WC3/SC are about as good as it gets for Blizzard

[goishen]

Yeah, the SC/BW story stands up well all things considered. The WC3/TFT although slightly-Metzen was enjoyable and fun and they even integrated a panda into it without boning the whole game. I'd rate the SC2 writing to be close to the WC3 but with the added bonus of slight choices.

D2/WC3/SC are about as good as it gets for Blizzard

And that isn't that good.  They had a reason for the quests, it's just the fact that I didn't give a shit.  In any of the three.  D2, blew past.  WC3 I didn't even buy until it was on sale for like $2.98.  SC I used cheat codes to get through half of the game.  There are reasons for each, but nothing that made me stop and go, "Whoah, this is a good game."  And certainly nothing that I put 468 hours (and counting) into.  Thanks Steam, for letting me know how big a geek I really am.  I can guarantee you, the only reason that each one of those games had a story at all was Blizzard North.

In what?  2007?  2008?   They shut Blizzard North down, and hey.  Look, they're releasing crap.   Big surprise.

EDIT :  I'm sorry.   I haven't played SC2, nor do I intend to.  I've only played their "starter" mission.   And that was crap.

[Maledict]

Which is fine but you have to acknowledge you are an outlier there. People have written essays about how good Starcraft's storyline is. It's still commented on by reviewers and games industry people today. As objectively as you can be when discussing how good a storyline is, Starcraft seems to be up there as an acknowledged good piece of writing.

Also don't understand the Blizzard north comment - blizzard north had nothing to do with Starcraft or Warcraft AFAIK, and what the guys at Blizzard North went on to release certainly didn't convince me they were titanic genius's of gaming...

[goishen]

Also don't understand the Blizzard north comment - blizzard north had nothing to do with Starcraft or Warcraft AFAIK, and what the guys at Blizzard North went on to release certainly didn't convince me they were titanic genius's of gaming...

I dunno, I just find it funny that they released all of their hit games when they owned Blizzard North.  Now that they've shut it down, their quality seems to have suffered.  Blizzard North were the ones responsible for D1 & 2 (and the expansion, I forget what it's called).

[Malakili]

I dunno, I just find it funny that they released all of their hit games when they owned Blizzard North.  Now that they've shut it down, their quality seems to have suffered.  Blizzard North were the ones responsible for D1 & 2 (and the expansion, I forget what it's called).

Lord of Destruction.  Story wise and content wise LoD was somewhat coolly received on launch if I recall correctly (lots of repeated tilesets).  The thing that made LoD a classic was that it absolutely NAILED itemization so much that it has basically become the gold standard for ARPG loot.  Yes, I know there were notable patches which changed itemization pretty significantly, but the boost is incredibly noticeable even from vanilla D2 to the unpatched expansion.

Making fun of WoW is cool the last couple of years, but before that it was a powerhouse and is still the MMO most of us go back to if we get the itch.  Even Diablo 3 which had a crap launch and still lacks great itemization is a pretty damn good game (and only getting better with every patch).

Anyway, since this is the SC2 thread I'll end on SC2:

Starcraft II, whether the story is up to the first or not, is a global phenomenon and Blizzard has stepped up to the plate on the competition side of things in a big way in the last year.  The single player campaign DID have quality gameplay and was round about 30 missions long if you did all the optional stuff (28 maybe?).  Perhaps that hurt it?  The entire Terran story in SC1 is told in 2/3 of that (including Brood War).  Perhaps also the fact that they are doing one race at a time is hurting it a little.  SC2 and Brood War both gave you all three races perspective and I think that enriched the experience. 

[Special J]

So SC2 is 20 bucks right now.  I'm not huge fan playing RTS online so it would mainly be for the single player campaign.  Is it alright?

The single player is really polished. The plot is pretty derpy, but the gameplay itself is pretty exceptional. There are also a ton of single player modes outside of the campaign that add on some extra hours of play.

Bought.  And yeah, even if I don't touch any multiplayer stuff, looks like it'll be well worth the $20.

[Malakili]

First time I've ordered something from Amazon for release day delivery and happy to say that it came right on schedule.  Playing the single player now.  I have mixed feelings about the story so far, but I'll write more later (with spoiler tags of course).

[Phildo]

I'm about two hours into the single-player campaign for Heart of the Swarm and so far there are some things that make me wonder if choices in the first game actually do effect the story here.

[jakonovski]

I don't remember SC2's plot at all. I think I need to replay it for HOTS.

[luckton]

Queuing this up for next purchase.  Still salivating over Tropico 4 + all of the DLC and expansions for $10.