Turn Based Strategy/Wargames

[Malakili]

I've been wanting to get into a Turn Based Wargame lately.  I'm not really talking Civilization, but something like a world war two wargame.  Hearts of Iron 3/Europa Universalis struck me as almost everything I wanted EXCEPT that its real time and pausable, which isn't really what I am looking for.  I'm pretty inexperiences in the genre, but I don't mind having to dig into a game to learn the mechanics, and in fact something where I have to manage diplomacy, economy, research, and have a bit more tactical combat that something like Civ would be ideal.  I've been a bit of time hunting around but I haven't found really what I'm looking for.   

Or maybe HoI / EU are closer to what I want than I think?

Any suggestions are appreciated!

[ghost]

Hearts of Iron is interesting.  Have you tried it?  The real time part of it can be agonizingly slow, so you might feel that it isn't too different from turn based.

[tgr]

What's wrong with pausable real-time?

I've recently bought HoI3 myself, but I've also bought AI Wars and concentrating on that to start with, but the little I tested of HoI3 showed me that there were a TON of stuff to keep track of. Almost so much so it's going to be overwhelming, but I really do think it'll be one of my next long-term games.

Hell, I looked at starting in 1936, and it took 10-15 seconds (I think) for a full day to pass in-game, even at full acceleration. I'd be surprised if it turned very hectic to start with.

[Malakili]

What's wrong with pausable real-time?

I've recently bought HoI3 myself, but I've also bought AI Wars and concentrating on that to start with, but the little I tested of HoI3 showed me that there were a TON of stuff to keep track of. Almost so much so it's going to be overwhelming, but I really do think it'll be one of my next long-term games.

Hell, I looked at starting in 1936, and it took 10-15 seconds (I think) for a full day to pass in-game, even at full acceleration. I'd be surprised if it turned very hectic to start with.

Hmm, that is promising.  I guess I just worry about forgetting to do stuff in the real time game, where with a turn based thing I can simply run down a checklist, click "done with turn" or whatever, and then wait for the opponent to make their moves.  The complete version is only 15 bucks, so it might be worth picking up.  I might wait until the 4th tough, cause knowing my luck it'll be one of the daily sales and I'll end up wasting 5-10 bucks (not that it is the end of the world).

[Ingmar]

Rise of Prussia (http://store.steampowered.com/app/42870/) and its predecessors are all turn-based neckbeardy war games. I haven't gotten around to trying them myself but it sounds like they might be up your alley.

[Malakili]

Rise of Prussia (http://store.steampowered.com/app/42870/) and its predecessors are all turn-based neckbeardy war games. I haven't gotten around to trying them myself but it sounds like they might be up your alley.

Thanks for the tip. I think I am going to keep an eye out for some sort of Paradox Interactive crazy deal pack until the end of the Steam sale before buying any of this because maybe I'l be able to get a pack of these games for like 50 bucks for all of them or something.  Untll then I'll keep researching which one I think has the best bet of being a winner for me in case I have to buy just one at the end of the sale.

[tgr]

Curse you, ingmar. Cuuuurse youuuuuu!</zim>

That does indeed look like a game to keep in my repetoir, thanks for that.

[ghost]

You can stop the action in HOI3, which essentially can make it "turn based". 

[cironian]

You can stop the action in HOI3, which essentially can make it "turn based". 

This. HOI is really a discrete turn-based system with 1 hour = 1 turn. Only for most hours, you don't really have any useful orders to give, so you let the game move through those at a selectable speed. Then you pause either manually or using the auto-pause function that's available for virtually any event that might happen. Once paused you give your orders in peace, before unpausing. It's really more like Civ in that aspect, except the computer takes care of hammering the Next Turn button on those boring stretches.

[Zane0]

Hmm, that is promising.  I guess I just worry about forgetting to do stuff in the real time game, where with a turn based thing I can simply run down a checklist, click "done with turn" or whatever, and then wait for the opponent to make their moves.

I was just like you for the longest time. And it took a herculean effort on my part to overcome my initial reserve for paradox's esoteric real-time gameplay. But you're only doing yourself a disservice - there are a great set of games waiting under there, especially for someone looking for more measured gameplay that isn't absolutely inaccessible.

[JWIV]

http://www.crypticcomet.com/games/SI/Solium_Infernum.html.  I haven't played it, but have heard very good things.  As a bonus recommendation, if you listen to podcasts, you need to sub to Three Moves Ahead.

[Aez]

http://www.crypticcomet.com/games/SI/Solium_Infernum.html.  I haven't played it, but have heard very good things.  As a bonus recommendation, if you listen to podcasts, you need to sub to Three Moves Ahead.

Very interesting but I'm worried about opponent's AI, it can male or break this type of game and the reviews I founded didn't cover it.

[Megrim]

http://www.crypticcomet.com/games/SI/Solium_Infernum.html.  I haven't played it, but have heard very good things.  As a bonus recommendation, if you listen to podcasts, you need to sub to Three Moves Ahead.

I've just read through the RPS writeup of that game. It's here and gives a pretty good impression of the game. I think i'd like to get around to trying it, based on this, when i have the time.

[tgr]

One other to look for might be http://www.ufo2extraterrestrials.com/ but I haven't actually tested this. A friend of mine pointed me towards it, saying it was more like the old xcom, so I've got hope.

[Tannhauser]

If you want turn-based then http://making-history.com/ might be for you.  It's a more streamlined version of HOI and even includes a unit editor so you can give Germany 100 u-boats at game start.  You can play as any nation in 1936 and the game goes to 1946.  It does have its problems (Rumania has a small amount of oil) but a lot can be fixed by the editor.

It has a sequel now; Making History 2 (dur) which I want to pick up from a b&m but haven't found it yet.  I like MH much more than HOI3 which came out of the box unplayable. 

[Stormwaltz]

As a bonus recommendation, if you listen to podcasts, you need to sub to Three Moves Ahead.

This. Here, I'll even give you a link.

For wargames, I'd recommend browsing through the catalogs of Matrix Games and Battlefront.com.

If you're unbelievably hardcore, try War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition. It's so detailed, it's practically unplayable.

For something between War in the Pacific and Axis & Allies (odd as that sounds), there's World at War: A World Divided.

if you're open to fantasy, Dominions 3: The Awakening remains the standard-bearer. Hands-down, no-shit, period.

[Malakili]

I appreciate the input everyone.  At this point I'm leaning back towards Hearts of Iron III, for a variety of reasons, including the fact that I like the time period and that it has Steamplay, which means I'll be able to play it on my laptop as well, which is ideal.  Europa Universalis is also a possibility especially for the latter reason as well.  Still waiting until the last day of the steam sale to see if a pack goes on sale or something, and I unfortunately missed the EU one day sale (though even if I buy it at its current price, it only cost me 5 bucks not to buy it, so no huge loss).

[Reg]

Has Hearts of Iron 3 been patched to point of playability yet? When it first came out reviews weren't very good but from what I hear that's par for the course with those developers/

[Malakili]

Has Hearts of Iron 3 been patched to point of playability yet? When it first came out reviews weren't very good but from what I hear that's par for the course with those developers/

From what I've been reading, the launch issues were resolved in a patch.

[Teleku]

Any idea if I should bother getting the Semper Fi expansion for HOI3 or not?

Also, why can't Matrix Games put all their shit up on Steam.  

[Ingmar]

Also, why can't Matrix Games put all their shit up on Steam.   

They're kind of a "special" company in a lot of ways.

[ffc]

http://www.crypticcomet.com/games/SI/Solium_Infernum.html.  I haven't played it, but have heard very good things.  As a bonus recommendation, if you listen to podcasts, you need to sub to Three Moves Ahead.

I've just read through the RPS writeup of that game. It's here and gives a pretty good impression of the game. I think i'd like to get around to trying it, based on this, when i have the time.

I gave this a shot based on the RPS writeup.  Other than the cool artwork on the "cards" and neat premise, the game looks ugly and the UI is literally from hell.

There were obvious moves which were better than others and I quickly setled onto a routine that got boring.  Well, I should say relatively obvious because I'm sure I missed some subtle nuanced moves since it felt like I was learning Dwarf Fortress.  And that didn't go well.

As outlined in the RPS writeup the real draw is supposed to be multiplayer email/wave games but in reality they take forever and a day to play.  Consequently people lose interest 1/3 of the way in bringing the game to a halt (you can replace them with AI) or just quit when they fall far behind.  Unless you have the RPS guys standing over your shoulder narrating the game for you and sending you turn summaries because you forgot what your last turn was since it took so long, the game is slow and boring in practice.

[Speedy Cerviche]

http://elementalgame.com/

Scheduled for August release. From the guys who made Galactic Civilizations.

[Yoru]

http://elementalgame.com/

Scheduled for August release. From the guys who made Galactic Civilizations.

Okay, that looks legitimately awesome.

[Baldric]

If you like 4x games I highly recommend sword of the stars and its 3 expansions.  The collection is $20 on steam these days.  A brief description of the game is a well done total war game, but in space.   The strategic portion is deeper than it appears at first.

I also recommend the three moves ahead podcast.  I first saw it linked somewhere on this board and listened to ten podcasts that very day.

[Baldric]

Any idea if I should bother getting the Semper Fi expansion for HOI3 or not?

Also, why can't Matrix Games put all their shit up on Steam.  

Semper fi greatly improved hoi3, there are some goofy issues like the Japanese joining the Comintern, if Germany doesn't influence them from day 1 and if you play USA in the 1936 scenario don't expect anything like Pearl harbor to thrust you into the war.

That being said paradox has a beta patch in the works that addresses some of the remaining quirks and there is an active mod community that addresses some of the remaining issues as well.

[dusematic]

Revolution '76 is a goodly turn based strategy wargame. Check it out!  (http://www.cdosabandonware.com/std_games_details.php?gameid=1012 )

[Yegolev]

I noticed that there is currently a sale on Impulse for HOI3 + Arsenal of Democracy, which seems to be a mod or some such.

[Stormwaltz]

Arsenal of Democracy, which seems to be a mod or some such.

It's a very elaborate mod of HoI2.

[Ingmar]

Arsenal of Democracy : HoI2 :: For the Glory : EU 2

[Lum]

Arsenal of Democracy is essentially the current version of HOI2. It supports modern resolutions including widescreen which alone kind of makes it essential. It also has a superior (read: functional) AI and is overall a lot of fun. Not a lot of mod support for it yet but it doesn't really need an AI mod and event mods will come eventually.

HOI3 - not so much. An expansion pack (Semper Fi) was just released which helped address *some* of the issues with the game, but overall it's still pretty fatally flawed. In particular it has an insanely complex logistics and supply system which just doesn't work. So for Semper Fi you have the option to play "Arcade Mode" which basically turns supply back into HOI2 (big stockpile in your capital which magically gets out to your troops). The main problem with HOI3 though is just the scale. It's too big and requires you to automate too much, which results in a very Master of Orion 3 style of experience where you point at something and hit End Turn waiting for something to happen (except in this case you don't even hit End Turn).

[Jimbo]

Has anyone played Laser Squad Nemesis?

Why the hell can't they take this idea and use Warhammer or War 40K to it?

I really don't have time to try this out, but it looks pretty fun.

[Trippy]

Has anyone played Laser Squad Nemesis?

Why the hell can't they take this idea and use Warhammer or War 40K to it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_Gate

[Sheepherder]

Yes, that was an awesome game.

[Sir T]

If you like your scale a bit more closer to the battlefield you could do worse than the Combat Mission games from Battlefront. basicly you give orders to your units and then a minute of time goes by and you see whats happening, followed by you giving new orders. Its pretty decent fun. You can look at a demo for one of the games here