Walking Dead

[MrHat]

That episode was for me the best episode of the series, HANDS DOWN.

Right up until the last second reveal.

100x this.

I was thinking he was responsible for some of the shit too, but still, it's going to be disappointing no matter the reveal.

[HaemishM]

I can't imagine anyone is actually surprised by the reveal at the end?

I wasn't surprised, just disappointed. Andrea may be the only character I hate more.

[Evildrider]

When they didn't kill the Governor at the end of last season, you knew he was gonna be back.  I'm not a big Governor fan either, but a lot of the TWD fans like him.  I'd rather they move on, but I guess if you are gonna stretch out the prison you might as well have him around for it. 

[tazelbain]

I would rather have a mustache twirling villain than brain-dead misogynous woman driving the story. I know its a low bar.

[Cyrrex]

I'll hold out some hope that they can write him in for a few episodes without making it too horrible.  Consider how BAD ASS that last episode was, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Best episode of the series.  Herschel is a rockstar.

[KallDrexx]

Am I the only one who thinks that if they had that much ammunition (and skills) they should have gunned down the zombies *before* they broke the fencing?

[Raguel]

The main problem was the illness keeping people from thinning the herd. Since zombies are stupid and no one is going to make ammo for awhile, it makes sense to conserve as much as you can.

[jgsugden]

Am I the only one who thinks that if they had that much ammunition (and skills) they should have gunned down the zombies *before* they broke the fencing?

They were culling the herd without using ammunition.  Ammunition is precious if you do not have the ability to make more - which they do not seem to have.  The herd just grew too much with so many people ill.

[Evildrider]

Not only that, but the sound also draws more walkers.

[Ironwood]

They've also now made it clear that there's a fucking chain swarm living just down the road.

[Surlyboi]

I'm pleasantly surprised by the way this ep turned out. Ben Nichols has an amazing way of making haunting post-apocalyptic songs.

[angry.bob]

An excellent episode and it looks like the show is going to change it's focus for at least the next couple of weeks. Talking Dead is also not sucking for a change.

The whole prison defense thing bugged the shit out of me. There should have been a dry moat ten feet deep all the way around that outer fence. I guarantee there's at least one bobcat in that prison.They also should have been building a solid wall of stuff on the inside of the inner fence as well. Plus, I f all it took was less than fifty people pressing on a prison fence to take it down the US would have a penal system with zero prisons and a billion escapees.

[Surlyboi]

Well, in all fairness, their fences that haven't been maintained for a few years and the zombies aren't worried about guards in towers blowing their brains out. Prisoners just might be.

[Ironwood]

I've never understood why the hollow area between the two chain link fences isn't FILLED WITH SHIT after about a month of living there.  It would have been one of my first priorities.

[Raguel]

I'm really surprised how strong this season has been. Although I really don't get the character, I thought this was a good episode.

[jgsugden]

My take: He started with the right intentions, but didn't deal with the (initial) death of his kid in the same way that others would - and then lost it when the zombie version of her passed.  He stopped trying to do the right thing and began to spiral out of control while seeking vengeance - and realized how far he'd gone only after gunning down most of his remaining people.  From there, he was dealing with what he'd done (burning down Woodbury, walkng the land, etc...) by distancing himself in every way from what he'd done.

When the family connected with him, he started to put himself back together.  He still has to reconcile the crazy %@$# he did with what he wants to be for this family.  The first question is: can he be the man he wants to be, or if things go bad again will he revert to the guy that slaughtered so many people?  And the second question is: If he can be a good man from here forward, what should the people around him do about him?  Accept the good man he can be, or punish him for being the bad man he was?

[TheWalrus]

Round to the grape. Dude's never going to be able to be trusted.

[jgsugden]

Round to the grape. Dude's never going to be able to be trusted.

Well, yeah.  I didn't say it was a hard question.  Especially in the zombie apocalypse.  I could see them setting up this deep internal debate about the quality of redemption and the worth of a man ... and then have Glen blow his brains out the second they see each other.

[tazelbain]

[jgsugden]

[Threash]

[Evildrider]

The Governor was a total dick even before he met Andrea and Michionne. 

[Threash]

To outsiders, sure.  The people of Woodbury had it pretty good though.

[jgsugden]

The people of Woodbury would have been dead without a leader to organize them and their defenses.  You can argue someone else might have stepped up, but that other leader could have abused his power outright rather than putting a cleaner public image out there like the Gov.  If they follow the comics, you'll see other types of leaders out there eventually. 

The Gov. did right by them in so many ways - and, in general, the wrong he did (up and until the gunning down of his people) was either in the name of protecting his people, or retribution.  Then, he snapped.  The Gov. lacked control in some key ways, but started from a place of good.  The horror story really hits when you get to the guy that only cares about himself, has power, and is in full control.  The Governor was a more dramatic villain for the comics, but the villains I think will be much better on screen are still to come... maybe years from now.

[Velorath]

The Gov. did right by them in so many ways - and, in general, the wrong he did (up and until the gunning down of his people) was either in the name of protecting his people, or retribution.  Then, he snapped. 

When he gunned down those soldiers last season I'm pretty sure that was not in the name of protecting his people. He could have brought a bunch of trained soldiers back to Woodbury to help protect the town, but they might have taken control of things. He also sent Merle to kill Michonne after she left Woodbury. The fact is, in both the comics, and in the show last season the Governor was just a really poorly written, one-dimensional comic book villain.

[jgsugden]

I'm not validating his methods, but I think he wanted to preseve the people he was responsible for protecting - and maintaing his role in their community. 

...When he gunned down those soldiers last season I'm pretty sure that was not in the name of protecting his people.

I saw it differently.  I saw it as - "These guys could be great, but they could also take control.  And if they take control, they could do anything.  I doubt they'd understand Penny.  They'd 'kill' her.  We're better off with their guns and without them."

...He also sent Merle to kill Michonne after she left Woodbury...

She'd already shown that she was a threat to the established rule.  She did not trust them, and judged their way of dealing with the world.  She might have come back and sabotaged, might have led another violent group there to 'liberate' the people, etc...  Again, better safe than sorry...  Better to gun her down and make sure she isn't a threat...

A truly one dimension character has no motivation to do evil - they just do evil.  He was in control and was trying to protect both the people he controlled, and his control over those people.  If he lost control, the new power could 'kill' Penny, and could hurt the people of Woodbury.  Nothing he did was out of the blue, and everything started from a place of reason. 

[MediumHigh]

The funny thing is that the Governor is the least badly written villain from the comics. I feel this last episode is the direction Shane should have gone. I told believe the govenor as a badass normal though the show keeps insisting he is. Don't believe he is a "misunderstood good guy" though the show insist that he is. I keep waiting for his "hyde" to show up and nope it doesn't. So now we going the "he is a complex character, basically good guy route." where only a few weeks ago he gunned down his own people after failing a suicidal zerg rush on a group of guys who wanted nothing to do with you. We are to believe the humanizing factor is the little girl?? Ok I'll buy that show, I'll buy that.

[Raguel]

Yeah I don't buy it either, but if I handwave away season three (and who doesn't, amirite  ) then this last episode is good.

[Threash]

I don't see what's unrealistic about someone not doing evil ALL of the time.  I am perfectly ok with someone who guns down a group of people not gunning down every group of people he comes across.  I don't see why a guy who will rape and torture and murder can't also go on a dangerous mission to get a dying old man a can of oxygen.  It doesn't make him any less evil or any more good, it just makes him a more realistic human being.

[Velorath]

I don't see what's unrealistic about someone not doing evil ALL of the time.  I am perfectly ok with someone who guns down a group of people not gunning down every group of people he comes across.  I don't see why a guy who will rape and torture and murder can't also go on a dangerous mission to get a dying old man a can of oxygen.  It doesn't make him any less evil or any more good, it just makes him a more realistic human being.

It's not that he has to be all evil or all good, but the way he tends to go about things makes him the chaotic neutral of the Walking Dead universe. Shooting his own people just felt like the writers going "look how crazy and evil this guy is, he's shooting his own people!". If he came across you there seemed to be an equal chance of him taking you in to live in Woodbury or cutting your head off to put in his fish tank and then tracking down all your friends to kill them too. Or maybe you'd get lucky and instead of killing you, he'd have you beaten while he makes your girlfriend get undressed in the next room while he just creepily stands behind her.

And no, I don't generally think someone who has a habit of gunning down or torturing innocent people typically has the empathy to do nice shit for strangers. Mind you I liked last night's episode because it managed to portray him as more of a complex and tortured individual in one episode than the entirety of the last season managed to, but I don't for a second think it's consistent with his character as portrayed before. I'm willing to forgive that though because the way he was portrayed before was complete shit and because I think David Morrissey does a good job despite the writing frequently being bad.

[MediumHigh]

I liked the episode more when I stopped thinking of him as the governor. Replace him with say Shane and the entire episode not only makes sense but works beautifully.

Now as far as the "way the governor is portrayed?" Man in some respects the tv writers are trying really hard to polish turd. They (tv writers) wanted to make him "sympathetic" in a fucked up amoral way without really knowing what amoral actually means. So he just comes off as two light shades from axe crazy. Comic Governor? Completely axe crazy, even to the point of turning everyone associated with him (i.e everyone in woodbury) into lighter versions of axe crazy. They toned him down for tv, in order to polish the turd (with mixed results). The other walking dead villains are just utterly ham-fisted governor rejects, going into randal flagg territory of comical baseless evil (minus the awesome and the lovecraft elements). Don't know how they going to polish some of those turds.

[CmdrSlack]

I sure hope that they don't try and being the current big bad of the comics to the show.  Not because he would suck, but because there is another leader from that plot line that would just piss me off.

[MediumHigh]

I'm hoping they continue to avoid word for word the graphic novel's plotline. I can do without a lot of the things in the graphic novel

[Hayduke]

Further they stay away from the comics the better imo.

Hopefully the governor will find a way to get the two sisters killed, take the kid for himself, and go back to being a merry little asshole.  And then Michonne can kill him for good, as she should have when she had the fucking chance.  Goddamn this fucking show.

[HaemishM]

Mind you I liked last night's episode because it managed to portray him as more of a complex and tortured individual in one episode than the entirety of the last season managed to, but I don't for a second think it's consistent with his character as portrayed before. I'm willing to forgive that though because the way he was portrayed before was complete shit and because I think David Morrissey does a good job despite the writing frequently being bad.

This. ALL OF THIS. I fucking hated the Governor because he was such an idiotic, schizo character. He was one step from mustache twirling one minute, a good guy doing bad things the next. I'm not sure where they are going with this focus on the Governor, but he was SO much better written in the 40-odd minutes here than in the entirety of time we've seen him before. The writing has been consistently good to great this season so I'm willing to take a few weeks to walk with the crazy person.