So how is the PvP and are there any future changes coming?

[Shatter]

Just curious since I prefer PvP to PvE, what is the current PvP state in WOW?  When I quit WOW before WOTLK it was basically Arenas gave the best gear(not an arena fan) and then that gear was basically handed down to the BG's after a while but the best gear was always arena...is that still the case?  Class wise, what are the strong PvP classes currently and what classes are needed more often then not(Ill assume healers)?  I played a rogue and druid prior to quitting but Im not against making a new class from scratch.  Is Cataclysm bringing anything to the PvP scene?  I havent kept up on WOW changes and plan to read up on what Cataclysm has with it but haven't yet so any input is appreciated. 

[Modern Angel]

Arenas will still be around but the emphasis will be back on Battlegrounds. They're adding in ranked BGs with good gear from them. What, exactly, this system is going to entail hasn't been elaborated on too much yet.

[Paelos]

Arenas are still necessary to get the high level pvp gear that owns. However, you can get arena points through various dailies and eventually buy the next step down stuff without having to worry about ratings.

Cataclysm pvp will bring in rated BGs supposedly, but I don't know about ratings in terms of the gear. I'd expect that they will bring in more requirements to wear pvp gear to make it a distinct progression path, not less.

[Malakili]

Right now you can also uses badges from heroics to buy a full set of PvP gear, though you'd still need rings, trinkets, etc.  Makes the barrier of entry to casual PvP a little less painful because at least you aren't totally in a wrong set of gear.  Frankly I haven't done any PvP in Wrath of the Lich King except for each of the new battlegrounds once just to see them.

I think tree druids are good in PvP.  Frankly, if you want PvP, the MMO genre isn't the best place to do it, WoW is alright, but meh.  The others already said what the changes will be, so there you go.

[WindupAtheist]

Cataclysm pvp will bring in rated BGs supposedly, but I don't know about ratings in terms of the gear. I'd expect that they will bring in more requirements to wear pvp gear to make it a distinct progression path, not less.

Arenas and Rated Battlegrounds will give the same kind of points, and supposedly there will only be rating requirements on a very few top-end things.

[Nebu]

The PvP in WoW really only shines when everyone is on an equal gear plane.  Even then, the class balance issues can be problematic.  I imagine that the arenas would be enjoyable if you have a set team that plays well together.  The BG's and WG are largely a waste of time but you can get some low key fun in WG for a month or so if you haven't tried it already.  

I enjoyed the PvP for a month just by learning the different class strategies and dabbling with the BG's and WG.  By the time I had equipped my toon with pvp gear I got bored.  YMMV

I much preferred Aion, WAR, and DAoC for my MMO PvP fixes. 

[Shatter]

I still play Aion casually and am just waiting for 1.9 to see the changes but Im likely going to drop it soon if I dont like it.  WAR I just started back recently as well but its still lacking in many areas but it got me back to enjoying battlegrounds(scenarios) for quick pvp which is why Im looking again at WOW, at least just for PvP.  Im just trying to decide if I should continue to level and pvp with my druid or rogue or should I look at a different class cause I dont have any idea how good either are anymore. 

[Rasix]

WoW is just not a great PVP game, especially if you're on a PVE server  .  Only thing I really enjoyed lately was Wintergrasp because it incorporates a lot of elements you'll see scattered all over different battlegrounds. Wintergrasp, when it's not lagging to hell, is quite enjoyable.

I don't care for arenas.  I only like a few battlegrounds.  World PVP is dead on a PVE server, but that's expected (and welcome).   Like Nebu said, gear just matters too much, but it's not really hard to get a decent baseline.  You'll just have a window of time where you're a punching bag.

I'm looking forward to seeing what's in store with Cat.  I just hope it's not yet ANOTHER battleground.  Two+ WG like areas with staggered timers would be a lot of fun for me at max level.  Keep adding those and you've got imitation Mythic RVR.  Well, except for any type of zone fluidity and without a clueless dev team flailing their arms wildly like this is their first attempt at a PVP game.   

[K9]

WoW is just not a great PVP game, especially if you're on a PVE server  .

This pretty much.

There's fun to be had, and with the boosts to honour gains and the daily BG feature gaining honour and arena points is easier than previously. The barrier to entry is lower, however we're at the end of an expansion and starting out you will feel weak, especially when facing arms warriors, rets and DKs with 40K HP who can tear you apart as if you were paper. You can get up to a competitive level easier than before which is nice, but expect to spend a while being a punching bag for pretty much everyone.

[Nebu]

I think it's even worse on the pvp servers.  Not only are you a punching bag, but now you're also subject to being a target for some 7 year old with a level 80 toon.  After doing the trip to level 80 a few times already, the last thing I want to happen is for the grind to be longer just because someone with a high level toon wants to inconvenience me.  The entire pvp server concept is wasted on a game where virtually noone is interested in a fair fight... or even fighting in the open world for that matter. 

[Rasix]

I think it's even worse on the pvp servers.  Not only are you a punching bag, but now you're also subject to being a target for some 7 year old with a level 80 toon.  After doing the trip to level 80 a few times already, the last thing I want to happen is for the grind to be longer just because someone with a high level toon wants to inconvenience me.  The entire pvp server concept is wasted on a game where virtually noone is interested in a fair fight... or even fighting in the open world for that matter. 

Play on my server when Cat hits.  You know you want to. 

[Ingmar]

I hit 80 with my ret paladin maybe 2 weeks ago and I'm already sitting at 806 resilience, 4 piece furious, and able to contribute pretty effectively in WG and BGs. Honor adds up pretty fast if you do the random BGs and make sure you hit the WG weekly quests when available (helps if your side can actually win it from time to time of course.) Turn all your keeper shards into more honor, etc.

The one thing is you'll have to PVE for a weapon (and for a shield should you be a shield user), I was lucky enough to get that 232 axe from Pit of Saron on my first try, if that hadn't happened I would be in worse shape for sure.

[Nebu]

Play on my server when Cat hits.  You know you want to. 

I recently played with Tairnyn and friends and quickly learned that WoW demands a dedicated group to be enjoyable.  If I can't log on and have a solid group to run dungeons, etc. with then there's really nothing that the game offers beyond the 1-80 grind, a few faction grinds, and playing several minigames.  I guess I'm not enough of a PvE or gear grind fan to play much without people to shoot-the-shit with.  

I miss my DAoC days... it was great to log on, PvP for 4 hours with a great group, and call it a night.  

[Ingmar]

Play on my server when Cat hits.  You know you want to. 

I recently played with Tairnyn and friends and quickly learned that WoW demands a dedicated group to be enjoyable.  If I can't log on and have a solid group to run dungeons, etc. with then there's really nothing that the game offers beyond the 1-80 grind, a few faction grinds, and playing several minigames.  I guess I'm not enough of a PvE or gear grind fan to play much without people to shoot-the-shit with.  

I miss my DAoC days... it was great to log on, PvP for 4 hours with a great group, and call it a night.  

How was that different?

[Nebu]

How was that different?

Short answer: DAoC was far less gear and group dependent while also being more pvp focused.  You're right about there being a lot to do in WoW solo.  It's just PuG and PvE based.  I'm not interested in gear progression.  I learned that VERY quickly in EQ. 

All MMO's are more fun with a regular group.  That's very true. 

[Ingmar]

My experience in DAOC was that there was actually far less you could do without a group - verging on almost nothing actually, unless you were playing the stealther game-within-a-game - and for a game that was allegedly less gear dependent I spent an awful lot of time leveling my artifacts and farming for scrolls. I do agree that pre-TOA it was less gear dependent, thanks to stat caps. (Said stat caps also created a situation that basically fucked over self-buffing hybrids, but that's a complaint from another decade...)

That said, though, I think given the choice between WoW's gear dependence and DAOC's utterly wretched class and population balance, I'll take the first one every time. As a player I can actually do something to help myself out with the first problem - farm more gear, and population issues don't manifest themselves in WoW PVP except in Wintergrasp. With DAOC all you could do was reroll and hope your new class stayed on top of the pack, or your new realm didn't go down the tubes.

[WindupAtheist]

Other than fragging newbies or maybe catching someone on the ground and ganking them while they're trying to do their dailies, there's really no point to PVP servers anymore. (And if you just want to do the latter, Wintergrasp on a PVE server is as good as anywhere else.) Everyone is just in Dalaran watching a queue tick down anyway.

If you want fun, flag on a PVE server. So many wannabe gankers in PVE gear getting stomped. Mostly it was my friend on her priest getting flagged in various ways, and me dropping out of the sky directly on top of the would-be ganker and unloading before they knew WTF hit them. Good times.

[Rasix]

Play on my server when Cat hits.  You know you want to. 

I recently played with Tairnyn and friends and quickly learned that WoW demands a dedicated group to be enjoyable.  If I can't log on and have a solid group to run dungeons, etc. with then there's really nothing that the game offers beyond the 1-80 grind, a few faction grinds, and playing several minigames.  I guess I'm not enough of a PvE or gear grind fan to play much without people to shoot-the-shit with.  

I miss my DAoC days... it was great to log on, PvP for 4 hours with a great group, and call it a night.  

Well, I imagine we'll be pretty active when Cat hits, which means there may be 4 of us (me, Dan & Tom, Muu) on at night.    Although Tom moving to Virginia may complicate things.  Still, when all us were active, PVP was pretty nifty and having to only carry one random idiot in a 5 man wasn't a problem (plus being out-voted 4-1 means kicks are easy  ).

[Nebu]

Well, I imagine we'll be pretty active when Cat hits, which means there may be 4 of us (me, Dan & Tom, Muu) on at night.    Although Tom moving to Virginia may complicate things.  Still, when all us were active, PVP was pretty nifty and having to only carry one random idiot in a 5 man wasn't a problem (plus being out-voted 4-1 means kicks are easy  ).

Hey... I could be your non-random idiot! 

[DevilsAdvocate25]

Just curious since I prefer PvP to PvE, what is the current PvP state in WOW?  When I quit WOW before WOTLK it was basically Arenas gave the best gear(not an arena fan) and then that gear was basically handed down to the BG's after a while but the best gear was always arena...is that still the case?  Class wise, what are the strong PvP classes currently and what classes are needed more often then not(Ill assume healers)?  I played a rogue and druid prior to quitting but Im not against making a new class from scratch.  Is Cataclysm bringing anything to the PvP scene?  I havent kept up on WOW changes and plan to read up on what Cataclysm has with it but haven't yet so any input is appreciated. 

This link is to the Armory for the new 2010 Arena Tournament coming up in WoW. You should be able to browse the different teams and, based off their records and gear levels, get an idea of where you want to be and what class you want to play. Oddly enough, Hunter-Shaman-Pally seems like the new 3v3 hotness.

[Paelos]

The horde teams in those groupings heavily favor pallies. The alliance teams favor priests.

Both like shamans.

[Ingmar]

Just curious since I prefer PvP to PvE, what is the current PvP state in WOW?  When I quit WOW before WOTLK it was basically Arenas gave the best gear(not an arena fan) and then that gear was basically handed down to the BG's after a while but the best gear was always arena...is that still the case?  Class wise, what are the strong PvP classes currently and what classes are needed more often then not(Ill assume healers)?  I played a rogue and druid prior to quitting but Im not against making a new class from scratch.  Is Cataclysm bringing anything to the PvP scene?  I havent kept up on WOW changes and plan to read up on what Cataclysm has with it but haven't yet so any input is appreciated. 

This link is to the Armory for the new 2010 Arena Tournament coming up in WoW. You should be able to browse the different teams and, based off their records and gear levels, get an idea of where you want to be and what class you want to play. Oddly enough, Hunter-Shaman-Pally seems like the new 3v3 hotness.

Unless of course, he doesn't want to arena - what does well in arenas does not have a strong correlation with what is successful in BGs. A *lot* more things are viable or effective in BGs than in arena.

[Paelos]

I find my prot warrior is very effective in bgs. There are many more goals I can contribute towards like running flags, or guarding nodes without dying while tapping flag cappers.

In arenas I'm laughable.

[Soulflame]

I never personally found Arena to be terribly fun.  It mostly seemed to be going up against cookie cutter teams with matches that lasted 30s or 30 minutes, without a whole lot of space in between.

The smaller scale BGs (Warsong and Arathi) were my favorites, mostly because it was easier to have a direct impact on the game.  It certainly is possible to have impacts even as a single player in AV, but it's harder to do so, particularly if the other team is even halfway smart.

World PvP is rarely interesting.  It was mostly melee or stealthing melee trying to whack people in the middle of mob fights, or running around zones with level 20-30 opposition to gank while they haplessly flailed about.

Sadly, WoW PvP seems to be an afterthought.  It might be better in Cata, with the push for rated BGs.

[Arinon]

Stuff

Pretty much this exactly with the exception that I did have some good times in the 2v2 and 3v3 brackets.  You have to go into it with the expectation that somewhere between 1800 and about 2100 rating you are going to hit a wall based on your class comp.  Very few comps are viable up that high and the ones that do tend to fall into a rock/paper/scissors with each other.  BORING! Climbing to that point can be fun though.

[Shatter]

 Not interested in Arenas, been there did that.  I just want to pvp for fun when I have time so Ill be sticking to stritcly BG's.  My 2 level 70's are a druid and rogue so if I level one of them to 80 which is the best choice for pvp?  I was also debating leveling my 35 mage possibly for the same purpose. 

[Paelos]

Sadly, WoW PvP seems to be an afterthought.

Sorry, I just have to nitpick on this because it's something I hear a lot. Not from you, just from players that came into the game later on. They say it "seems" like an afterthought.

There is no doubt WoW pvp was an afterthought. The pvp we have now was never intended to be part of the game. They simply forced it in there based on player demand. In the beginning, all you could basically do was duel people or play on a pvp server for gankage. They didn't even institute a system or the first battleground until 8 months after release.

Simply put, WoW will never do well at pvp because it was never designed to be a pvp game. They are trying to bolt wings onto a car and make it an airplane.

[Sheepherder]

WoW endgame was also an afterthought, though that's where they prioritized.

[Paelos]

WoW endgame was also an afterthought, though that's where they prioritized.

Yes and no. In terms of what we know as endgame currently, absolutely. Still, the game was defined as having the top end be raids/dungeons. It shipped with Molten Core and Onyxia's Lair, a gigantic rep grind, and a set of epic level armor for each class, and a set of blue class armor from the 5 mans. They've really haven't repeated the class set armor from specifically from 5 mans since then. They just went to "token fever".

[Soulflame]

I'm not saying it's a bad thing that WoW PvP is an afterthought.  WoW PvP works very well for the game, given that it's mostly there as "something else to do" when you're tired of grinding dailies, or resource collection, or etc.  Where it breaks down is if it's something a player intends to do as their focus.  That's all I was trying to convey, although I realize that I probably could have better done so by saying it directly.

[Paelos]

No, I totally agree. The pvp game is good for a distraction, but not as a real end-game focus. I just think if people go whole-hog and talk about pvp as a fully tacked on afterthought in WoW, it would lessen some of the crazy you get from people that scream for balance.

You can't balance an afterthought.

[Rasix]

The hard part about going full on PVP is that if you're only doing it casually, it's incredibly difficult to get a decent weapon.  It's hard enough getting a weapon without raiding, but in WOLK (I don't know about Cat) it was impossible to get weapons above ilvl 200 without an arena rating or raiding until the Icecrown 5 mans.

It was nice when you could buy weapons for honor in TBC.

[Shrike]

Just buy a battered hilt and have at it. Kinda painful (8-9k on Whisperwind), but it's way better than any of the alternatives, unless you have ready access to ICC25.

[Rasix]

Just buy a battered hilt and have at it. Kinda painful (8-9k on Whisperwind), but it's way better than any of the alternatives, unless you have ready access to ICC25.

The hard part about going full on PVP is that if you're only doing it casually, it's incredibly difficult to get a decent weapon.  It's hard enough getting a weapon without raiding, but in WOLK (I don't know about Cat) it was impossible to get weapons above ilvl 200 without an arena rating or raiding until the Icecrown 5 mans.

 

[Ingmar]

There are 219s in HToC too, but yeah. 219 isn't really setting the world on fire now PVP wise either. The stuff out of the ICC 5s is now the baseline really.