The Thrill Is Gone

[Ingmar]

I kind of feel like there is a 3rd DAOC path in there, but that has dead-ended pretty hard so far too.

[Tarami]

All this is not very different to how I feel about shooters, which I played extensively during the same period, even competed in a few (Quake 2, mostly.)

The thing about it though is that it isn't the games themselves I miss, but the innocence of the the genre's community. You can't release Quake today and expect people to enjoy it, simply because people expect a more balanced game than Quake ever was. I'm betting the same is true for EverQuest and other early MMOs. It's no longer a case of making some half-shoddy, unbalanced content and sticking it in there and have people go "ooh" and "aah" and not immediately rip the developers a new one over some minor inbalance. The community has matured beyond that. If WoW added housing but didn't get it just right people would show up on the offical forums and bitch to no end about it. There's no room for half-assed, broken housing and making housing that really works is much, much harder than half-assing it, obviously. LotRO half-assed it and thus nobody really bothers with it. The tiniest sliver of bad content gets skipped or by-passed unless you force it on people, and that's just retarded to do.

Fun is circumstancial. I don't expect to have as fun with a shooter again as I did playing DAPAK2 in WinQuake with my friends and clanmates. I still occasionally have fun with a shooter, but it isn't that two-year high I was in when I played Quake 2, eventhough shooters have evolved a lot compared to MMOs. I don't see why I would ever have as fun again as I did my first year in WoW, either. It has little to do with the games we've chosen to play, really, and more to do with our attitude to the games. That changes forever and it's no fault of the genre. You used to expect nothing, now you expect all the things you used to have.

[Nebu]

You used to expect nothing, now you expect all the things you used to have.

Fortunately, games like STO, WAR, TR, Matrix Online, Vanguard, Horizons, AC2, SWG, SB, and others have helped us recalibrate back to ground zero. 

[Tarami]

Yeah, well, not trying to smooth over the atrocious shape the genre is in, just making the point that it could come an MMO that was pretty much actual crack and people would still consider it inferior to EQ/UO/whatever in several ways. ("It's TOO fun, EQ was never this much fun!")

I guess though, what really has me puzzled is that people can handle this situation when it comes to so many things, but not MMOs.

[Nebu]

You're right in stating that nostalgia is a powerful thing.  I was just poking fun at the recent release history in the medium. 

Games like EvE, AoC, LotRO, CoH, GW and vast improvements to EQ2 do give me a little hope that we could eventually see a rebirth.  Admittedly, the hope is fading fast.

[slog]

Housing is one of those things that never worked right, will never work right, and I don't expect any MMO to ever attempt it again.

[Malakili]

Housing is one of those things that never worked right, will never work right, and I don't expect any MMO to ever attempt it again.

Do you mean housing that can be placed anywhere only?  For instance, I was always quite satisfied with the way LOTRO did player housing.

[slog]

Housing is one of those things that never worked right, will never work right, and I don't expect any MMO to ever attempt it again.

Do you mean housing that can be placed anywhere only?  For instance, I was always quite satisfied with the way LOTRO did player housing.

I mean permanent non-instanced housing.

[Slayerik]

Housing is one of those things that never worked right, will never work right, and I don't expect any MMO to ever attempt it again.

Beyond turning UO into an urban sprawl, the housing was great. Am I missing something here? IIRC, SWG did pretty well with it.

[Shatter]

The only game I liked housing in was SWG.

[WindupAtheist]

I'm pretty sure Raph has said in the past that UO's world was originally built with the intention of hosting a few hundred players, not thousands, so the urban sprawl is hardly surprising. Outside of that, UO has always had great housing, especially post-2002 when they started letting you build it tile-by-tile from the foundation up.

[robusticus]

I will only vote for playing house if I can step on them with a giant mech.  And since we've seen this movie before the Trammel server introduces perimeter defense that makes it so you can only smash houses by using jump jets.  And you have to use all the fuel to get high enough, so you sort of only get to smash them at random for a huge price.  It could work, really.

Garriot never once thought of that when he was in orbit.  Does that piss you off?  Can't really blame any of them though if the choice is sell out to the devil or go out of business.  I just hope this round these guys will have the option to say thanks but no thanks.  Not that they would, but it would make a better movie.

[eldaec]

Housing is one of those things that never worked right, will never work right, and I don't expect any MMO to ever attempt it again.

Do you mean housing that can be placed anywhere only?  For instance, I was always quite satisfied with the way LOTRO did player housing.

I mean permanent non-instanced housing.

Worked ok in eve, daoc, sb, swg, probably vanguard?

[Ingmar]

DAOC housing was instanced.

[Segoris]

I wouldn't call that instanced. EQ2 is instanced housing.

[Rendakor]

I will only vote for playing house if I can step on them with a giant mech.  And since we've seen this movie before the Trammel server introduces perimeter defense that makes it so you can only smash houses by using jump jets.  And you have to use all the fuel to get high enough, so you sort of only get to smash them at random for a huge price.  It could work, really.

Garriot never once thought of that when he was in orbit.  Does that piss you off?  Can't really blame any of them though if the choice is sell out to the devil or go out of business.  I just hope this round these guys will have the option to say thanks but no thanks.  Not that they would, but it would make a better movie.

Do what now?

[Ingmar]

I wouldn't call that instanced. EQ2 is instanced housing.

The houses all sit inside an instance together, just like LotRO. They're not *individual* instances, but it is still instanced housing, as in, it isn't people putting up their mansion right in your prime farming spot.

[Segoris]

Ok, then the difference here is the definition of instance. To avoid a ridiculous discussion over what is and isn't an instance, the person making the requirements for what they're looking for can decide if by non-instanced they mean housing where people are pvp/pve'ing or if non-instanced just means non-individually zoned houses, and thus, if DAoC fits the requirements.

Edit forgot a few words

[Sheepherder]

I will only vote for playing house if I can step on them with a giant mech.  And since we've seen this movie before the Trammel server introduces perimeter defense that makes it so you can only smash houses by using jump jets.  And you have to use all the fuel to get high enough, so you sort of only get to smash them at random for a huge price.  It could work, really.

Garriot never once thought of that when he was in orbit.  Does that piss you off?  Can't really blame any of them though if the choice is sell out to the devil or go out of business.  I just hope this round these guys will have the option to say thanks but no thanks.  Not that they would, but it would make a better movie.

Something makes me think you have needle tracks inside your nose.

[robusticus]

Do what now?

1. Go get your mech from the hanger (style points for choosing the TimberWolf)
2. Dropship to the planet New Carebearia.
3. Infiltrate player housing complex.
4. Smash stomp and wreack as much havoc as possible.
5. Try to avoid the anti-PK lance that just showed up to gank you.
6. Laugh hysterically at how hard they QQ about the effort involved in building New Carebearia, tile by aching tile.
7. Send in $5 for a new TimberWolf.
8. Rinse and repeat.

[Slayerik]

I love it when they QQ

[slog]

Housing is one of those things that never worked right, will never work right, and I don't expect any MMO to ever attempt it again.

Do you mean housing that can be placed anywhere only?  For instance, I was always quite satisfied with the way LOTRO did player housing.

I mean permanent non-instanced housing.

Worked ok in eve, daoc, sb, swg, probably vanguard?

The definition of Housing is getting out of control here.

[slog]

I will only vote for playing house if I can step on them with a giant mech.  And since we've seen this movie before the Trammel server introduces perimeter defense that makes it so you can only smash houses by using jump jets.  And you have to use all the fuel to get high enough, so you sort of only get to smash them at random for a huge price.  It could work, really.

Garriot never once thought of that when he was in orbit.  Does that piss you off?  Can't really blame any of them though if the choice is sell out to the devil or go out of business.  I just hope this round these guys will have the option to say thanks but no thanks.  Not that they would, but it would make a better movie.

Not sure where you came from, but great post.

[Nebu]

Housing is one of those things that never worked right, will never work right, and I don't expect any MMO to ever attempt it again.

Worked well in ATitD and Wurm, bitches!   

[WindupAtheist]

1. Go get your mech from the hanger (style points for choosing the TimberWolf)
2. Dropship to the planet New Carebearia.
3. Infiltrate player housing complex.
4. Smash stomp and wreack as much havoc as possible.
5. Try to avoid the anti-PK lance that just showed up to gank you.
6. Laugh hysterically at how hard they QQ about the effort involved in building New Carebearia, tile by aching tile.
7. Send in $5 for a new TimberWolf.
8. Rinse and repeat.

Trammel tank brigade shows up, some roleplayer talks for ten minutes and then headshots you while your ridiculous mech is lying on the ground, toppled over after trying to jump through a building.

 

[pxib]

Trammel tank brigade shows up, some roleplayer talks for ten minutes and then headshots you while your ridiculous mech is lying on the ground, toppled over after trying to jump through a building.

 

Anybody can topple a mech. Stack up four tables, then walk forward at exactly the same time as you put a bone breastplate into your backpack.

[robusticus]

Trammel tank brigade shows up, some roleplayer talks for ten minutes and then headshots you while your ridiculous mech is lying on the ground, toppled over after trying to jump through a building.

 

Yes, indeed.  You could take out half a block just by stumbling around tripping over cars and stuff until you were immobile.   Was working that angle but too many typos as it was.

[Sheepherder]

Reminds me of this time I saw a mech in Mechwarrior 3 headshotted by jumping into the underside of a raised highway.

[Ratman_tf]

The answer, obviously, is mech housing.

[Ollie]

Ooo, Howl's Moving Castle. Trust Miyazaki to deliver us from Trammel with his sage-like wisdom.

[Sheepherder]

I was going to say something about Trammel Mechfucker shitting up this thread, but it didn't exactly start on a good note to begin with.

[Musashi]

[WindupAtheist]

I was going to say something about Trammel Mechfucker shitting up this thread, but it didn't exactly start on a good note to begin with.

The dude managed to be anti-Trammel and pro-Mech all in one post. We need to keep him and nurture him until he grows up into a proper WUA foil. Gryeyes fucked off in tears after he got tempbanned in Politics, and Sinij barely posts anymore. I'm dying here.

[Stabs]

Maybe he could begin lobbying for a hardcore pvp Transformers (tm) MMO.

[Shatter]

Maybe he could begin lobbying for a hardcore pvp Transformers (tm) MMO.

YOU HAVE THE TOUCH!!  YOU HAVE THE POWAH!!