2K Games just Announced XCOM

[UnSub]

Although I think the idea of an XCOM FPS is a bit stupid, the rest of the thread makes me feel like I just walked into the old peoples' home. "Real-time??? BAH! In my day, you had to wait 15 minutes real-time for the computer to work out its moves, then watch the outcomes before you could take your turn! That was real gaming! And we didn't even have a mouse - it was all done through keyboard shortcut commands!"

[Tebonas]

Its no evolution, its a different kind of game.

Compare Nethack to Diablo. While both are fun, the removal of Turns makes a strategic game where you can ponder your next move (1hp left, should I drink this unidentified potion and hope for healing or cure poison, or should I pray and hope my god isn't mad at me) into an action rpg where you open loot pinatas. While both are fun, they are fun in a different way.

[tgr]

I honestly don't see that much of a difference between the different games, and I don't really care that much about what graphics look like.


Hell, I'm happy to fire up this, because I think it's a fun game.

Not pretty, fun. It gives you enough information to make decisions, and it gets the job done. And it takes a long time to play through one campaign. Today's games still seem to be going for graphical glitz (fair enough, but not the holy grail in and of itself) and returning a lot less actual gameplay content for each dollar invested (both for the developer AND the consumer).

I'd actually start looking more seriously at some of the older games out there if it wasn't for the fact I'm usually spending most of my time in EVE these days, simply because I'm getting disillusioned both by the majority of today's games for their own sake (lame gameplay, lame controllers, consoleitis), and because the publishers keep on upping the DRM in an effort to "curb piracy".

Although I think the idea of an XCOM FPS is a bit stupid, the rest of the thread makes me feel like I just walked into the old peoples' home. "Real-time??? BAH! In my day, you had to wait 15 minutes real-time for the computer to work out its moves, then watch the outcomes before you could take your turn! That was real gaming! And we didn't even have a mouse - it was all done through keyboard shortcut commands!"

The last 2 years of gaming releases makes me feel old, simply because I can say "I think games were better back in the day", and mean it.

[Ironwood]

Yeah.  That.  When games design and development was more unfettered and free, it was far more creative and fun.

Far more.

[Kail]

Although I think the idea of an XCOM FPS is a bit stupid, the rest of the thread makes me feel like I just walked into the old peoples' home.

I have nothing against FPS in general, but I can't think X-COM FPS without thinking of the phrase "ENFORTH thothe alienth!!!!"

[KallDrexx]

What year do you want your graphics from?  Of varying quality, so buyer beware, or at least do your research first.

2003
http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/ufo_aftermath

2005
http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/ufo_aftershock

2007
http://store.steampowered.com/app/7500/

2010 (although really around 2007)
http://store.steampowered.com/app/37030/

Have you played them? Are they any good?

They're all shit.  Except that last one.  Not tried that yet.

I Really enjoyed Afterlight.  It added quite a few new elements to the whole x-com theme that I really enjoyed.  Not sure why you thought it was shit.

[Yegolev]

About the UFO series, I only actually played the demo for Aftermath and it was entirely shit.  I mean that inventory bugs were immediate and obvious in the demo.  This was patched, of course, but I never got around to trying the rest of the series because of that (pay attention here, devs!).

UFO: Extraterrestrials, I know nothing of this.  Is it of the same series as the UFO: After* games?  Let's forget this FPS nastiness and resurrect talk of the X-COM clones.

Although I think the idea of an XCOM FPS is a bit stupid, the rest of the thread makes me feel like I just walked into the old peoples' home.

You're steppin' on me begonias!

The curse of being young is turning into the people you are mocking.  The problem with being old is nostalgia.  Insurmountable.  I have played too many games for too long to put up with a half-ass but shiny X-COM clone.  The gameplay has to evolve, not devolve, otherwise I'm sitting there directing pretty soldiers and wondering why they are missing entire sets of gameplay mechanics that I remember from the original.  One that bothered me just this week was while playing Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup.  I wanted to dip a dagger into a potion, but I don't think DCSS will let me do that.  I will have to read the manual some more, or go back to Nethack.

[Merusk]

Although I think the idea of an XCOM FPS is a bit stupid, the rest of the thread makes me feel like I just walked into the old peoples' home. "Real-time??? BAH! In my day, you had to wait 15 minutes real-time for the computer to work out its moves, then watch the outcomes before you could take your turn! That was real gaming! And we didn't even have a mouse - it was all done through keyboard shortcut commands!"

Some games are more fun and tactical turn-based vs real time.  The mention of final fantasy tactics is an excellent one.  Would that be better as a RTS game where you're managing your squad of 8 characters?  Will X-Com the FPS even be able to hold a candle to X-Com the TBS?  

Also, some of us simply have never had the right mix of reactions and micromanagement to do RTS very well and so we don't enjoy them.  I keep hearing how the *craft series or other RTS games are fun, immerse and challenging.  I get my ass stomped in 20 mins on easy difficulty without cheating, so I wouldn't know.  My mind is such that I actually focus TOO MUCH on one thing and lose sight of others. I have a huge number of lists to track stuff IRL so I don't forget to come back to them while doing other things.  The result is the games are not for me.

Bioware's pase-based RPGs are almost the best possible mix of turn-based and real-time RPGs.  It lets you walk places without pausing every few steps and keeps the combat much more tactical. If I could actually get my characters to stay in one place when I want them to, like in TBS games - without having to completely turn off all character automation - they'd be perfect.

[KallDrexx]

UFO: Extraterrestrials is more of a direct remake with new graphics and kept all the gameplay and everything intact. The After* games are spriitual successors which added onto/changed some of the gameplay. I think different studios made each.

[Xilren's Twin]

Count me in the old people's home waxing nostalgic over turn based strategy games.  Just being turn based opens up layers of complexity and strategy you just cant get in a real time setting.  Hell its one of the reasons modern pausable party based RPG type games keep having the party size shrink.  3 people? Hell give me 6 to 8 plus summons and crap.  A 7 year old can beat me consistently in an FPS on reflex speed alone; screw that, let me use my brain.

Yeah, RTS is supposed to be a mixture of brain and reflexs, but i just never got into them.  Nowdays i see so many RTS games that i wish were turn based it's not even funny.  Starcraft/Warcraft et all is fine for lots of folks but I just dont enjoy them.  HoMM/Disciples/Civ? Yes please, and of course MtG that still is tragically not capitalized on for a killer MMO.

XCom is like Master of Magic.  Kept on the hard drive of any computer i've owned since they came out.  Still enojyable, despite the dated graphics and having to use DOSbox and such.  How many FPS games can you say that about; how many folks are playing the same FPS they enjoyed 5 years ago? Or even 2? FPS games tend to last about as long as a carton of milk in terms of long term replayability (course that's an argument in favor of developers to make more FPSs so they can keep selling new ones I know, but im a consumer damnit).

[tgr]

I played Doom and Quake for 3-5 years straight, but that's because it was moddable. Hell, I even did my fair share of modding (trying to make a model of my parents' house for example), but the point still stands, FPS games these days tend to tell a story, and once that story's told, that's it. The game's consumed, and there's not that much of a reason to replay it. Maybe if it's a deeper game like mass effect etc, but that still only adds a few replays to the game.

Hell, I still sometimes (seldom, but it happens) fire up the good old Last Ninja from the C64, because I used to play the fuck out of that when I was much younger.

[Azazel]

Fuck you guys and your FPS hate, it's going to be all about the atmosphere and crazy UFO shit. If they manage it it'll be great, even as a shooter.

Go play Resistance/2/Gears of War/2? 

[Azazel]

Fuck you guys and your FPS hate, it's going to be all about the atmosphere and crazy UFO shit. If they manage it it'll be great, even as a shooter.

This isn't about hating on fps, well not for me I like a lot of fps games, but XCOM the fps isn't XCOM. It's a cash cow.

http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt1468290/usercomments
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/41591
http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0861907/

[jakonovski]

Go play Resistance/2/Gears of War/2? 

I love those games. Except the end of GoW2. It's shit.

[Amarr HM]

http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt1468290/usercomments
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/41591
http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0861907/

Don't they know there are no asteroid fans left?

In response to what people are saying about how the best way to revamp the x-com series without botching into oblivion, a la UFO and other failed attempts. The closest I got was in Silent Storm but it was still buggy as hell and all it managed to do well was to mimic the turn based engine somewhat nicely. There's a few things every remake missed out on and probably thought was uneccessary, throwing light beacons to reveal blind spots being a major example. I'd say most remakes where like why do we need to add that it only slows you down from getting to what's really important killing aliens and getting shiny. This is not true cause what (I reckon) was really important in XCOM was the mood & the tension, throwing lights around in the night missions really added to this. Also I always found the AI was weirdly unpredicatable, not sure if this was down to good or bad programming, every so often it would throw you a curveball and catch you out.

[Khaldun]

So if you sat down with people and said, "What was really fun about X-Com? Why do you continue to class it as one of your favorite games ever?"

I think you'd get the following:

1) The theme
2) The base management and tech-tree advancement
3) Skilling up soldiers, identifying with your troops as they get better
4) The different abilities of the aliens and the way that they progressively get revealed as a game session goes on

Ok. So far, I guess you could try to capture that in an FPS.

But then, I'm almost certain everybody would also say:

5) The beautiful match between turn-based, squad-based, isometric display combat and all the aforementioned attributes. E.g., what made the theme (desperately overmatched Earth UFO-fighting agency trying to deal with mysterious alien incursions) work in part was the way that a turn-based and squad-centered mechanic made every fight a tense exercise in managing your movement, controlling chokepoints, and sometimes having to leave a squaddie exposed in order to work up a solid attack or capture in the next turn. What made the skilling-up great was the focus on individual squaddies and the way that the combat mechanic necessarily put them at risk (as opposed to the typically disposable, abstract units in your average FPS). What made the progressive reveal of different aliens interesting and tense was the mechanics. Etc.

So yeah, this is a case of folks just not understanding what it is that they've bought, or understanding perfectly well and buying just to snatch a name that they think has some reputational value. It's stupid.

[Amarr HM]

6) The TBS engine was designed really well. Shooting through walls and windows, the build up of tension, the oh shit it's a trap moments. The AI was well programmed in that the states were used quite effectively, like the aliens chillin in their ship and you have to break in and blow them all up through one door without getting killed upon entry. Plus the usage of lighting and the aliens could always see that little further than you meaning you had to use a bit of strategy to sneak up on them using light posts as cover etc.

[KallDrexx]

Also the tension in knowing that if you walk around the corner the soldier you skilled up could be one shotted, or even turned into an alien (those black aliens always made terrorist missions so extremely stressful, in a fun way though)

*edit* oh yeah they turned you into zombies, that then morphed into another crystalis (or whatever it was called) when you killed the zombie.

[HaemishM]

Don't forget destructible terrain and cover that meant a metric fuckload, something FPS games haven't really gotten right yet.

[Arinon]

Christ.  Seeing that JA2 screenshot up there makes me want to reinstall that shit.  I think I will.

[Yegolev]

Yes to destructible terrain.  I remember the glee when I found out that the alien pistol I had confiscated could shoot holes in the fucking houses.  Yeah, who's the bitch now, eh?  I'll perforate this whole neighborhood if I have to!  What?  That was a load-bearing wall?  ARGH!!

[Teleku]

Yeah, I loved the destructible terrain.  I always couldn't stand losing one of my leveled up guys, so I'd always restart if one of the bought it.  This lead to me playing the game like Team America.  My strategy on most missions was to have everybody armed with rocket launchers (or later, the alien rocket launchers that basically shot the mini nukes from Starship Troopers).  I'd then proceed very cautiously around the stage, leveling half of it with high explosives.

"I saw an alien move by the window in that house!"  *several rockets collapse the house* "Ok, good."
"Hmm, there could be an alien behind that hedge."  *rocket salvo*

I loved the alien rocket launchers that you could control the flight path of.  I'd basically stand out side of any UFO and launch salvo's into them, destroy every room before running in.

[Sheepherder]

Although I think the idea of an XCOM FPS is a bit stupid, the rest of the thread makes me feel like I just walked into the old peoples' home. "Real-time??? BAH! In my day, you had to wait 15 minutes real-time for the computer to work out its moves, then watch the outcomes before you could take your turn! That was real gaming! And we didn't even have a mouse - it was all done through keyboard shortcut commands!"

I'm not old.  There's just a good fucking reason that humans haven't invented real-time chess yet.

[ezrast]

Although I think the idea of an XCOM FPS is a bit stupid, the rest of the thread makes me feel like I just walked into the old peoples' home. "Real-time??? BAH! In my day, you had to wait 15 minutes real-time for the computer to work out its moves, then watch the outcomes before you could take your turn! That was real gaming! And we didn't even have a mouse - it was all done through keyboard shortcut commands!"

I'm not old.  There's just a good fucking reason that humans haven't invented real-time chess yet.

You're old.

[Amarr HM]

You're old.

I'm so playing that right now.

[Sheepherder]

You're old.

I hate you and everything you stand for.

[Amarr HM]

That was a terrible game thus proving TBS>RTS.

[UnSub]

Not pretty, fun. It gives you enough information to make decisions, and it gets the job done. And it takes a long time to play through one campaign. Today's games still seem to be going for graphical glitz (fair enough, but not the holy grail in and of itself) and returning a lot less actual gameplay content for each dollar invested (both for the developer AND the consumer).

The last 2 years of gaming releases makes me feel old, simply because I can say "I think games were better back in the day", and mean it.

That's probably nostalgia talking to some extent. There is also some extent of consoles dividing the market based on what you can play (so that you either need all consoles and a PC to play the best games of each, or you miss out on some titles... although arguably that's been happening since the 2600 as well). Plus it is also hard to view the classics of right now until probably a few years have passed and the chaff gets filtered from the wheat. Outside of the relatively major issue ( ) of limited publisher diversity, gaming is very strong, with a pretty good range of titles to suit most people.

I liked XCOM, never played the sequels based on word of mouth. I also remember the howls of outrage over Fallout 3 going 'real time' and how that ended up. As for XCOM the FPS? We'll see. If you can pause it and flip between members of your unit, plus the AI on both sides isn't retarded, it could do a lot of the things mentioned above. Add in a destructible environment and it'd be golden.

... or we might get XCOM: Gears of Halo.

[Aez]

If you can pause it and flip between members of your unit, plus the AI on both sides isn't retarded, it could do a lot of the things mentioned above. Add in a destructible environment and it'd be golden.

[tgr]

That's probably nostalgia talking to some extent.

Not really. I'll admit that old games like commander keen, wolfenstein, doom etc would probably be a bit boring by today's standards, but that has to do with the fact we're more demanding now than back then. However, games like JA2 are still as fun now as it was back then, same goes for civilization, sim city, openttd, and probably moo3 (although I haven't played that one). None of those have what I would call "stellar graphics", and are far from new.

And very few of today's attempts at basing themselves in these general niches have ever expanded on the featuresets. They've got better graphics, sure, but the underlying mechanics always seem to be simpler, with less to do.

I'd love to be proven wrong, though, since that would mean there's been new games which are actually worth replaying. I just generally don't feel that's the case these days.

[Amarr HM]

Developers who are basically thrown these projects probably haven't the first Iota what made these games good, Civilization is safe cause it's still supervised by the original creator, XCOM isn't. You will likely have a bunch of hairbrained developers who go, oh there's this game called XCOM that everybody loves its about "shooting aliens" and setting up bases so you end up with this micro managment heavy half assed attempt at the original that has an RTS engine with about as much strategy as "Whack a mole".

[Typhon]

[...]moo3[...]

you definitely meant "moo2" because moo3 SUCKED AND KILLED THE FUCKING FRANCHISE.  Motherfucking morons... but I'm not bitter!

[tgr]

but I'm not bitter!

I can see that.

I honestly have no idea about any of the MOO games, since I never played any of them, I just remembered somebody said they were good. But actually, now that you mention it, I do remember having a conversation with a friend of mine, where he mentioned that moo3 sucked.

Probably should give moo2 and 3 a try myself, just to see if it is as bad as I'm sort of starting to fear.

[Typhon]

Try moo1 and moo2.  They are both very different takes on 4X.  MOO1 focuses on massive numbers of units and diplomacy.  Very much a emperor-level vies of a space empire.  MOO2 focuses on customized ships, heros and tactical combat.  Very different experiences.  Both are fun.

If you are wondering how moo3 plays, open a spreadsheet and take a nap.

[Khaldun]

JA2, though, is fun not just because it's squad-based turn-based tactical, a sadly underrepresented genre even at the best of times, but because the personalities of the mercs and how it meshes with the management of a mission team is so fucking awesome. That dimension of gameplay, I have to say, can be found in some later games, though not nearly as often as it should be.