Cataclysm Class Changes

[Sjofn]

See, I'm the opposite. I am totally happy to let people die!  


EDIT: Even better, I'll let them die and if they give me lip for it, even though they died because they're too stupid to avoid the GIANT ORBZ OF DOOM, I'll TELL them I let them die because they're morons.

Again: I'm a bad person. :(

[Rasix]

I make it my duty to make fun of people that die to the GIANT LASER or SLOWING MOVING BALL OF INSTANT DEATH.

Peek through the cracks in your bloated UI and try to see what's actually happening. Geez.

[Fordel]

Probably the strangest part about Kael in MrT, is past a certain point, my Balance Druid could solo it.


If we got to floaty orb phase without any phoenix, then everyone else could do whatever they wanted, I got this nonsense.

[Rasix]

Probably the strangest part about Kael in MrT, is past a certain point, my Balance Druid could solo it.

Yah, I did that once or twice.  When I could actually get a heroic group as a boomkin.  I lot of priests I knew ended up doing this as well.

[kildorn]

I look at the paladin changes and think "so they're giving paladins a gimmicky group heal, nerfing Bacon, and deciding what paladins really needed was a BIGGER single target heal"

Also, lawl at the rotation commentary hidden in there. Yeah, you pretty much just press whatever button is lit up once your rotation is going.

[Ingmar]

The 3rd heal thing was inevitable, since shamans and priests now have 3 heals too (and druids already did, essentially). It seems likely that the flash/heal/big heal balance will be roughly the same for all 3 classes.

The I-radiate-wild-growth-from-myself thing will work or not work entirely based on how much it heals for and how far away from the paladin it will still work. I'm predicting it will end up being a pretty long range once it gets hammered on in beta for a while.

[Fabricated]

I look at the paladin changes and think "so they're giving paladins a gimmicky group heal, nerfing Bacon, and deciding what paladins really needed was a BIGGER single target heal"

Also, lawl at the rotation commentary hidden in there. Yeah, you pretty much just press whatever button is lit up once your rotation is going.

Eh, the only group heal that isn't gimmicky is Prayer of Healing. It's at least vaguely interesting.

[kildorn]

I look at the paladin changes and think "so they're giving paladins a gimmicky group heal, nerfing Bacon, and deciding what paladins really needed was a BIGGER single target heal"

Also, lawl at the rotation commentary hidden in there. Yeah, you pretty much just press whatever button is lit up once your rotation is going.

Eh, the only group heal that isn't gimmicky is Prayer of Healing. It's at least vaguely interesting.

Prayer, Circle of Healing, Divine Hymn (unless a cooldown is gimmicky)

Really, the only thinks I consider to be gimmicky AE heals are things like healing stream (nice in some situations, but not a full heal), that silly splash healing from Paladins, and Holy Nova.

You know, things Not Actually Used To Heal Raids Normally, because their requirements for use are more complicated than "point heal, click"

I mean honestly, what's so wrong with giving Holy Paladins a deep ranged AE smartheal.

[Sjofn]

Weird gimmicky heals are the real Paladin Class Feature though.

I totally healed heroic Forge of Souls on my paladin today, I haven't healed anything on her in a billion years. I kept making discoveries throughout the instance. "Oh right, FoL leaves a HoT behind on my sacred shield person for some reason now." "Ha ha, I just crit for a zillion in my shit gear." "Man this is boring."

[Ingmar]

I look at the paladin changes and think "so they're giving paladins a gimmicky group heal, nerfing Bacon, and deciding what paladins really needed was a BIGGER single target heal"

Also, lawl at the rotation commentary hidden in there. Yeah, you pretty much just press whatever button is lit up once your rotation is going.

Eh, the only group heal that isn't gimmicky is Prayer of Healing. It's at least vaguely interesting.

Prayer, Circle of Healing, Divine Hymn (unless a cooldown is gimmicky)

Really, the only thinks I consider to be gimmicky AE heals are things like healing stream (nice in some situations, but not a full heal), that silly splash healing from Paladins, and Holy Nova.

You know, things Not Actually Used To Heal Raids Normally, because their requirements for use are more complicated than "point heal, click"

I mean honestly, what's so wrong with giving Holy Paladins a deep ranged AE smartheal.

That's their RR5 RA.

[proudft]

EDIT: Even better, I'll let them die and if they give me lip for it, even though they died because they're too stupid to avoid the GIANT ORBZ OF DOOM, I'll TELL them I let them die because they're morons.

I had a H-FoS the other day where some hunter stood in the purple circle on the Devourer and dropped dead after about 10 seconds.  When he complained, the healer (I think it was a shaman) just said, "I can't heal stupidity."   

[Sjofn]

Ahahaha, that's awesome.  


EDIT: I should clarify I only tell stupid people they're being stupid if they're in my guild and I am friends with them and I know they can handle it. I'm actually way too nice in my PUGs. :(

[kildorn]

EDIT: Even better, I'll let them die and if they give me lip for it, even though they died because they're too stupid to avoid the GIANT ORBZ OF DOOM, I'll TELL them I let them die because they're morons.

I had a H-FoS the other day where some hunter stood in the purple circle on the Devourer and dropped dead after about 10 seconds.  When he complained, the healer (I think it was a shaman) just said, "I can't heal stupidity."   

I had a healer do that this week. Stood in purple chain healing himself. I did 50%-0% healing my own damned self during his "not beating on the tank" phases.

[Nevermore]

Well, Paladins are now off the short list of classes that didn't have some form of pet.

The way their describing it is it's not really like a pet.  Sounds more like the brewmaidens you get from the tankard trinkets.

[Selby]

When he complained, the healer (I think it was a shaman) just said, "I can't heal stupidity."

I did this a while ago.  A DPS stood in the purple stuff and died, I gave them the "stand in purple, you die and it's not my problem" line when they complained about my lack of healing them.

[Nonentity]

My tolerance level has dropped through the floor on bad PUGs. I have no qualms telling them to their face they are a bad player, complete with linking various recount stats and explaining to them exactly why they are bad. I do this until the timer is up and I can vote to kick them.

I had a level 80 hunter that was doing 600ish dps. 600. He used steady shot seven times in the first three bosses in Nexus, and 75% of his damage was autoshot. I voted to kick him, because he kept meandering into packs and pulling aggro. After wiping us, his druid buddy who was in the same guild defended him by saying I was bad for not picking up the extra packs he pulled, when I was already neck deep tanking the next pack down the road.

I explained to them that I expect people to be able to faceroll their way to a certain level of damage, even if they are bad. I can tolerate when I see people are bad, but they're actually trying. If it is clear they just have absolutely no idea what they are doing, and aren't even trying, that just pisses me off.

His defense was "have you never leveled an alt before?", to which I explained my hunter knew how to feign death if they ran into something stupid by around level 30, and my hunter did around 1200 dps at level 70-71 in blues and greens. It's not like the hunter rotation is hard - throw up serpent sting and steady shot forever. Since the druid wouldn't vote to kick his own friend, I just left the group so they could wait for another tank.

For all the causes in the world to champion, this is a terrible one, but I just get so goddamn mired in the incompetence of others sometimes that it drives me crazy.

[Minvaren]

Probably the strangest part about Kael in MrT, is past a certain point, my Balance Druid could solo it.

Yah, I did that once or twice.  When I could actually get a heroic group as a boomkin.  I lot of priests I knew ended up doing this as well.

Somewhat in reverse, my warrior can solo the instance, Kael excluded.  No takers so far on an achieve run, though I've only asked around twice so far.

[Merusk]

I've been soloing Kael on my DK for the mount.  So just a bunch of blood elf disguises. /sadf.

[Shrike]

I've been soloing Kael on my DK for the mount.  So just a bunch of blood elf disguises. /sadf.

And there's the cherry on the cake of irony. I never saw the inside of the place as enhance in TBC (and I REALLY could have used those axes, but nooooooooooo...had to PvP for the S2 ones, but that's a whole new bitchfest). However, as an 80 shaman, I can rock the joint. No chicken yet, either, but...welll...ironic.

[Sjofn]

We took our enhance shaman to MrT, and he's terrible! 

[Ironwood]

Did you pity the fool ?

 

[koro]

And I'm not entirely sure how you're using "niches" but I am talking about wanting Prot paladins to use slightly different rotations against single targets than against groups. The addition of Crusader Strike (and maybe Holy Shock?) alone start to provide that.

Maybe the addition of Crusader Strike and Holy Shock into Prot's single-target rotation will help out that single-target threat gen you guys were going on about?

[Sheepherder]

Neither will hit hard enough.  One scales off of spell power, one scales off of weapon damage.

[Ingmar]

Neither will hit hard enough.  One scales off of spell power, one scales off of weapon damage.

Prot paladins abilities scale just fine with spell damage currently thanks to Touched By The Light, but remember they're reworking the whole tree, so we can't make any assumptions at all about how hard either will hit for protection paladins. Chances are good they will have talents affecting those new baseline abilities in some way.

[Sheepherder]

The current baseline abilities scale off of AP and Spellpower.  Holy Shock is currently SP only.

If Crusader Strike remains weapon damage it will be a balancing nightmare if they simply toss some "CS does x% more" talents into the tree, because the range of speeds for 1h weapons is commonly from 1.6 to 2.6.  Tanks with tank weapons will be gimp, while tanks with rogue weapons will be ridiculous.  This is why I like the Bloodthirst / Hammer of the Righteous approaches to calculating damage.

Of course, all of this is theoretical, but I would expect them to announce any massive changes to calculating instant attacks with the stat overhaul stuff.

[Ingmar]

We don't know what speed tank weapons will be in the expansion, but it is in fact pretty likely that they will be slow. Heroic strike changing means that warriors will have no reason to favor fast weapons anymore, which finishes putting the nail in that the recent devastate changes started. Crusader strike if it stays based on weapon damage also means that paladins will have reason to favor slow weapons. When there are no classes around that would favor fast tanking weapons, the reason for them to make fast tanking weapons would seem to go away.

It is also possible that there just won't *be* tanking weapons and we'll use dps weapons to tank like DKs do.

[Ragnoros]

The current baseline abilities scale off of AP and Spellpower.  Holy Shock is currently SP only.

If Crusader Strike remains weapon damage it will be a balancing nightmare if they simply toss some "CS does x% more" talents into the tree, because the range of speeds for 1h weapons is commonly from 1.6 to 2.6.  Tanks with tank weapons will be gimp, while tanks with rogue weapons will be ridiculous.  This is why I like the Bloodthirst / Hammer of the Righteous approaches to calculating damage.

Of course, all of this is theoretical, but I would expect them to announce any massive changes to calculating instant attacks with the stat overhaul stuff.

Didn't they normalize all the weapon speeds on special attack calculations like an expansion ago?

[Ingmar]

The current baseline abilities scale off of AP and Spellpower.  Holy Shock is currently SP only.

If Crusader Strike remains weapon damage it will be a balancing nightmare if they simply toss some "CS does x% more" talents into the tree, because the range of speeds for 1h weapons is commonly from 1.6 to 2.6.  Tanks with tank weapons will be gimp, while tanks with rogue weapons will be ridiculous.  This is why I like the Bloodthirst / Hammer of the Righteous approaches to calculating damage.

Of course, all of this is theoretical, but I would expect them to announce any massive changes to calculating instant attacks with the stat overhaul stuff.

Didn't they normalize all the weapon speeds on special attack calculations like an expansion ago?

They normalized the AP contribution part of those calculations but not the part that is dependent on base weapon damage. You're right though, the speed isn't as big of a factor as it once was.

[March]

Vashj'ir is a level 78-82 zone in World of Warcraft: Cataclysm where players will be called to explore the depths of the Great Sea

Wheee... underwater zone.  Ugh, how I hate the underwater "experience"... still scarred from TOA.

[Ingmar]

The word at Blizzcon was that it won't be TOA-style, as you'll be able to 'walk' on the bottom and swimming movement will be more akin to how flight is done in the game (including mounts, which I think will be provided.)

[Mattemeo]

Vashj'ir is a level 78-82 zone in World of Warcraft: Cataclysm where players will be called to explore the depths of the Great Sea

Wheee... underwater zone.  Ugh, how I hate the underwater "experience"... still scarred from TOA.

I loved the underwater zones in ToA. Far, far from the worst thing that expansion did to the game. On the other hand, it was a bolted on mechanic - whereas underwater exploration/combat etc has been in WoW from the get-go, so I'm not expecting many problems.

[Paelos]

The word at Blizzcon was that it won't be TOA-style, as you'll be able to 'walk' on the bottom and swimming movement will be more akin to how flight is done in the game (including mounts, which I think will be provided.)

Still not cool. No Z axis fights. NONE! Why would I want that in raiding? It never works out well when positioning is already a giant problem with 75% of the playerbase.

You know they'll try to pull that Malygos bullshit again. Designers never mentally let go how much the players really really really hated that shit even though Blizzard thought it was fantastic design.

[March]

The word at Blizzcon was that it won't be TOA-style, as you'll be able to 'walk' on the bottom and swimming movement will be more akin to how flight is done in the game (including mounts, which I think will be provided.)

Still not cool. No Z axis fights. NONE! Why would I want that in raiding? It never works out well when positioning is already a giant problem with 75% of the playerbase.

You know they'll try to pull that Malygos bullshit again. Designers never mentally let go how much the players really really really hated that shit even though Blizzard thought it was fantastic design.

I agree with Paelos... but if there is no Z axis and the zone is just a "flight" to the bottom then dismount, then fine.  Otherwise, Occulus... now bigger!

edit: move pesky L

[Ingmar]

Again, they seemed to me to be taking particular pains to indicate that things were not going to be bad in that way.

[Paelos]

Again, they seemed to me to be taking particular pains to indicate that things were not going to be bad in that way.

Sorry, but when they set things underwater I'm going to assume they will try to make us swim. They may not, but it doesn't sit well with me.

BTW, if you're going to do water, I want boats. I want more boat to boat combat. I want personal pvp boats with pirate hats and parrots.