Cataclysm Class Changes

[koro]

Rogue changes are up. Nothing particularly offensive stands out, and I'm stunned there are no poison revamps as of yet. I just hope that "Assassination will be more about daggers, poisons, and burst damage." doesn't equate to "Burst, then auto-attack until you can burst again."

[Zetor]

Smoke bomb sounds pretty  in pvp if it cuts off enemy heals as well (and very nasty even if it doesn't). It's like a targetable undispellable aoe divine shield / aura mastery combo (for ranged). If it makes enemy targets in it unhealable as well, well, yeah.

[Nevermore]

The real question is: will Smoke Bomb work to stop that Priest in your group from Life Gripping you? 

[SurfD]

The real question is: will Smoke Bomb work to stop that Priest in your group from Life Gripping you? 

Life Grip is going to cause SOOO many bitch posts when it goes live.   I can completely see priests Life Gripping Mele Dps off a target just for shits and giggles.  Not to mention, that it is also going to be a "safety blanket for dumbasses" that i guarantee will cause everyone too stupid to move out of fire to immediately attempt to shift blame to the priest for not Lifegripping their dumabsses to safety.

[Merusk]

They might rename the presences, my biggest gripe is addressed. 

I realized why I hated it.. I'm that fucking OCD.

My new biggest gripe is nothing addressing the uselessness of Unholy Aura.  Unless they're going to try to address that in the stat revamp and the rune recharge really making that big a difference, I can't see anything outdoing the 15% damage increase.

[Kageh]

The biggest thing of all, though:

WHIRLWIND NO LONGER HAS A TARGET CAP. Capped at 50% damage, sure, but STILL FUCKING WORTH IT.

This is a really bad nerf IMO. I really can't think of that many situation requiring you to mass AOE stuff to make up for the loss of damage. And the AOE damage cap of 10 targets still applies, I'd assume?

If they do this, WW is pretty much pushed off the rotation for fury. You're just going to spam BT/Slam and Execute II (formerly known as Heroic Strike).

EDIT: Vengeance sounds like a good idea, but the Charge meets TC is kinda weird. How many more Charge abilities do we need? They should make that a talent for Charge or maybe a Charge replacement past 80.

[Sjofn]

They might rename the presences, my biggest gripe is addressed. 

I realized why I hated it.. I'm that fucking OCD.

Don't feel bad, that was my major problem with it too. 

[Minvaren]

EDIT: Vengeance sounds like a good idea, but the Charge meets TC is kinda weird. How many more Charge abilities do we need?

Sup dawg.  We put a Charge in your Charge so you can pull while you pull.   

[Mattemeo]

Not to mention, that it is also going to be a "safety blanket for dumbasses" that i guarantee will cause everyone too stupid to move out of fire to immediately attempt to shift blame to the priest for not Lifegripping their dumabsses to safety.

I already have a rule associated with people playing in the fire: You Learn, or You Burn. Life Grip isn't going to change that.

[caladein]

The real question is: will Smoke Bomb work to stop that Priest in your group from Life Gripping you? 

Life Grip is going to cause SOOO many bitch posts when it goes live.   I can completely see priests Life Gripping Mele Dps off a target just for shits and giggles.  Not to mention, that it is also going to be a "safety blanket for dumbasses" that i guarantee will cause everyone too stupid to move out of fire to immediately attempt to shift blame to the priest for not Lifegripping their dumabsses to safety.

Every idiot already blames the healers for their deaths.  I don't see Leap of Faith making that any more or less valid.

[Typhon]

A three man team of a rogue, warlock and shaman sounds pretty fun - lay down smokebomb, healing rain and then have the succubus knock melee out of the smoke.  Sounds like a good way to recover a bit a health.

[Ironwood]

EDIT: Vengeance sounds like a good idea, but the Charge meets TC is kinda weird. How many more Charge abilities do we need?

Sup dawg.  We put a Charge in your Charge so you can pull while you pull.   

Lol.

[Nonentity]

Posted Death Knight Rune clarifications and Rogue changes.

[Sjofn]

EDIT: Vengeance sounds like a good idea, but the Charge meets TC is kinda weird. How many more Charge abilities do we need?

It's for the times when your priest life grips you back away from the boss, according to the ZOMG TEH GRIEFZ people, apparently.

[K9]

Hunters get stealth 

[Lakov_Sanite]

I doubt they'll be invisible.  It'll be more like what stealth looks like to party members now.

[Hutch]

Trap Launcher 
Cobra Shot - an attempt to make BM relevant in raids again?
Camouflage - is this really stealth? They describe it as "an obscured state that prevents him or her from taking ranged damage." If it's stealth then 

Ammo change: finally. I wonder if they'll replace it with a relic-type item, but I'll be satisfied to just get rid of carrying ammo.

More pets!

Mana-to-focus change. No comment. My gut feeling is to call it a nerf but we'll see how it plays out.

[Fordel]

I hope Cobra shot actually shoots literal Cobras through the air.

[Ironwood]

I always thought Mana for hunters was ultra retarded anyway.  Glad it's changing.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I always thought Mana for hunters was ultra retarded anyway.  Glad it's changing.

[Minvaren]

Hunters get stealth 

My first reaction to this was "Dem Hibbies are back." 

[Ingmar]

The biggest thing of all, though:

WHIRLWIND NO LONGER HAS A TARGET CAP. Capped at 50% damage, sure, but STILL FUCKING WORTH IT.

This is a really bad nerf IMO. I really can't think of that many situation requiring you to mass AOE stuff to make up for the loss of damage. And the AOE damage cap of 10 targets still applies, I'd assume?

If they do this, WW is pretty much pushed off the rotation for fury. You're just going to spam BT/Slam and Execute II (formerly known as Heroic Strike)

They said already they think Fury will need another strike (and you also left out that fury will have a talent to add some damage onto sunder armor, so that goes in the rotation at least sometimes too.) I assume that they just don't know what form that extra strike is going to take.

EDIT:

Also if Cobra Shot doesn't use the Thulsa Doom snake arrow thing for its animation, I will be very disappointed.

[Typhon]

Hunters get stealth 

My first reaction to this was "Dem Hibbies are back." 

From an more recent clarification post - It's not invis, the hunter becomes see-through ("like Predator"), but obvious (as obvious as the big red "Legolegless <Huntards Unit!>" sign floating over their head.  Also, you can target them (and people in the rogue's smoke cloud), but you can't fire on them with single target abilities ("like they were behind a pillar, or had blocked line of site").

So, classes with ranged AoE should have much of an issue hitting them through camo, but warriors will have some trouble closing to range (charge won't work).  Which classes have ranged AoE damage?   Mage, warlock, hunter, druid, shaman (coming soon!)... I guess dk, but the death and decay range isn't very far.  So yeah, seems like this ability is more to boost lead-off damage and to keep warriors and death knights from closing the gap to hunters as quickly.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I felt this just belonged here.

[Typhon]

Lol, mages throw fireballs, call down blizzards.  Death Knights are, well, dead and can cause the surface of bodies of water to insta-freeze so they can ride over it... and you are having issues with a hunter being able to camoflage (a word which I seem to be unable to spell) themselves?

Clearly I'm misreading your post, but it is a funny picture.

[Nonentity]

Added Hunters to my second post down the page, first one got full.

[Merusk]

Damn.. I might have to start playing my hunter again.  I like the changes they're doing here a lot more.   I think you'll find that Mana to Focus (with SS/ CS giving you increased focus generation) will probably give you more resources over time to work with than mana does.  That equates to better DPS. I'm sure someone at EJ is/ has crunched the numbers and will post a treatise on it shortly.

I like the explaination of the DK rune changes.  It was apparent at the beginning it would slow-down DK's ability to pump out damage and slow down the hits they could ot.  I was worried they wouldn't be increasing the damage of the strikes to compensate.

[Hutch]

Damn.. I might have to start playing my hunter again.  I like the changes they're doing here a lot more.   I think you'll find that Mana to Focus (with SS/ CS giving you increased focus generation) will probably give you more resources over time to work with than mana does.  That equates to better DPS. I'm sure someone at EJ is/ has crunched the numbers and will post a treatise on it shortly.

There aren't any numbers to crunch yet. All the numbers Blizzard posted are subject to change, and I'm sure they didn't tell us everything yet.

In 10-man boss fights in LK, I sometimes have to dip into Aspect of the Viper for a few seconds. But I can often get through a fight without it. I don't see Focus as more resources. I see it as something I'll be waiting on so I can use my high-damage shots. And since SS/CS will add to focus, it's an incentive to use those shots more of the time, instead of as filler between the higher-damage shots.

I think that ultimately, focus will turn into consistent sustained dps, but shitty burst. We'll have to see how haste affects focus gen.

If all your Hunter does is stand around making DPS, then talking about better/worse DPS might not be pointless. None of this goes live until Cataclysm, at which point Hunter DPS relative to other classes is going to get realigned anyway, since the other classes are undergoing changes as well.

The thing that concerns me is this. I'm used to having things like Tranq Shot, Feign Death, Distracting Shot, and Disengage available to me when they're off cooldown. These are all utilities that I use in LK raids. They're not part of a rotation, they're things that get used as-needed. If I have to keep some Focus in reserve "just in case", then I might as well have a shorter Focus bar. I've never raided as a rogue, so I don't know if this is an issue they face right now or not. I do know that rogues have ways to regain focus, uh, energy, aside from just waiting.

[Ingmar]

I assume they'll tweak the numbers such that hunter DPS is relatively the same.

[Gobbeldygook]

If I have to keep some Focus in reserve "just in case", then I might as well have a shorter Focus bar. I've never raided as a rogue, so I don't know if this is an issue they face right now or not. I do know that rogues have ways to regain focus, uh, energy, aside from just waiting.

A lot of rogue abilities don't require energy.  It's likely that say, disengage won't require any focus, but tranq shot probably will.  Yes, if a rogues job is to kick a particular spell every time and he will wipe the raid if he ever misses it, it's about a 10% DPS loss IIRC.

[Malakili]

Druids get magic mushrooms.  Yay?

[Nevermore]

I like the explaination of the DK rune changes.  It was apparent at the beginning it would slow-down DK's ability to pump out damage and slow down the hits they could ot.

This is what I was trying to get at but doing a piss poor job of getting across.  I get that the Devs view an unused rune as potential damage that's 'wasted'.  What I'm not getting across I guess is I like always having a button to push every GCD.  I like the option of having a choice between which button to push depending on circumstance (procs are a good example, but not the only one).  By constraining runes in such a way that they aren't 'wasted' it could mean more standing around autoattacking, which I hate.  Feral Druids have that problem of having to stand around autoattacking while energy builds up.  It's the reason I've been playing my DK so much more than my Druid.  My worry is DKs are pushed to feeling more like a Rogue or Feral Druid when the reason I play one is because it currently doesn't feel like a Rogue or Feral Druid.  I have a Feral Druid and a Rogue already for when I want to play that way.

Now, depending on what they do with runic power to fill in the gaps, as well as the haste mechanism in the Frost tree, this might not be an issue.  Which I tried to allude to in my first post about this.  If it turns out you're still pushing a button every GCD, then I'm fine with that but then why did they make the change to begin with?

Re: Hunters

On the surface Focus looks like a very nice change PvE but a potential nerf in PvP.  Even more than the Rune change, Focus will make a Hunter feel much more like a ranged Rogue with some casty Mage thrown in.  Shots like Tranq Shot, Wyvern Shot and the like will likely cost Focus so Hunters will now have to be aware of their Focus in a way that they didn't have to bother with when they had Mana.  Defensive abilities like Feign Death, Disengage and Deterrence will likely just be on resource free cooldown system, like Rogue defense abilities.  PvP might not suffer as much as it looks like on the surface as long as there are talents like Lock n' Load still in the trees, to make it possible to still have some burst.  I have a feeling Focus will likely still need tweeking well after the release Cataclysm but overall I think it'll be a good change.

Re: Druids

So far Druid and Shaman are my favorite teasers since the two classes are clearly getting buffed while only getting minimal nerfs (though the loss of Cleansing Totem still makes me sad, for PvE reasons).  I'm really liking the Feral stuff (really, it could only be improved from where it's at right now).  The mushroom bomb makes me laugh and laugh though.  Can we have more than one up at once?  Shades of DAoC Animists! 

[Merusk]

So.. yet again.. druid buffs.

Fuck me I should just level one and get it over with. They're already at the top in DPS and tanking with minimal gear changes, now healing gets to use offensive abilities without losing healing prowess?  Fuck me.   

[Nonentity]

Added druid changes to second post.

[Sjofn]

My two druid specs are happy about the incoming changes, although I don't know if people will be able to handle the glory of Jassan's mustache FULL ON when he's healing. Tree form was a safety mechanism in that regard.