Mr. Smart is the Best Forum Poster [INTERNET HISTORY ITT]

[01101010]

From here.

 

I mean

  - I got nothing else for this...

[Khaldun]

That is the operational definition of unstoppable. The lawyers must have told him that he cannot and must not continue to post on the whole matter besides a brief bit of boilerplate "high confidence that our judgment will be vindicated" etc, but they can't get him to. He'll keep yakking all the way up to the day that his lawyer turns to him and tells him he has to pay a settlement, and then he'll talk some more the day after he writes the check. Just imagine a settlement that included the condition that Serek forgo future public comment. That would be like a law that orders the sun not to rise tomorrow.

[fuser]

In typical David fashion, he has no clue wtf he is doing or what's coming down the line. All this is just noise to take away from the fact that he screwed several investors, screwed thousans of gamers, nearly destroyed the company and left a frigging mess behind. A mess that I have been tasked with clearing up and fixing.

If him or his attorneys have any sense whatsoever, they would closely examine the FACTS surrounding libel and defamation. To think that for as long as I've been on the Net that I would make statements which would even be construed as such, is not only hilarious but is the kind of thing that helps attorneys renovate their homes, buy a yatcht or send their spouses on a shopping spree. Only the attorneys win.

I wonder if the investors are fine with getting "screwed" in legal bills in QOL's defense around the fallout from termination of David. I'm sure they would be smart enough to keep their mouths shut 

[schild]

I just read through the whole lawsuit PDF and I gotta say, everything here hinges on Smart, Allen, and QOL having any credibility or ability to work in this industry prior to these events.

Which, btw, is lol. These two should embrace eachother because the san lost taken by anyone else who encounters them would kill most normal nerds. Misery loves company, dudes, kiss and make up. You have no one else.

[Khaldun]

In this industry? Really? Think of all the multiply-failed people who somehow keep finding someone who will hire them. It's pretty baffling: people with money sacks seem to think it's better to turn over rocks looking for slugs rather than take a chance on that nice looking flower over there.

[schild]

In this industry? Really? Think of all the multiply-failed people who somehow keep finding someone who will hire them. It's pretty baffling: people with money sacks seem to think it's better to turn over rocks looking for slugs rather than take a chance on that nice looking flower over there.

Look, there are a lot of lulzy failures in the industry, but the cream of that crop is the triple headed hydra of Allen, Bowman, and Smart. We can talk about all these other folks, but really, we're just pissing in the wind if we don't place those 3 on top.

[LK]

This reminds me of a situation that happened yesterday. Two people, one a wheelchair-bound black man, and a white woman with her son, were arguing on a street corner. The black man accused the woman of having his phone and was screaming at the top of his lungs to have his phone returned to him. The woman was being defensive, refusing to take out the phone lest the scary and aggressive black man snatch it from her and wheel off. Neither was willing to give the other any ground. What was likely going to happen was they would come to some violence or the police would have to get involved.

As I was passing the scene, I stopped, listened for a moment, and decided, eh, what the hell. I walked up to the black man and said "What's your phone number?". Both of their attention turned to me, as I had my cellphone out. They were both still being aggressive to each other, screaming at each other, and I did my best to tone down the noise so I could examine the facts and help resolve the situation. Got the number, called it. No ring, no vibrate. Wasn't sure where the phone was at this point. The son had it. I asked if it was OK if I could see the phone to see if my call was received. They're still screaming at each other, the woman delirious that she might give the phone to the wrong person, the man livid that the culprit was right in front of him and refusing to accept that the phone was his. Both were villians in the eyes of each other, though both were villians because they couldn't work it out civilly and get to the facts of the situation.

Turns out my phone number was on the phone after the non-involved son took it out and let me see. I handed the phone to black guy, the guy said thank you and immediately calmed down. I said if you want to thank me, just wheel off (because nothing good would have come from staying in that situation). He started to, and the woman had the audacity to keep going and yelling at the man. I got in her way, multiple people could see (and said) to leave the dude alone.

We walked down the same block afterwards. The woman would just not shut up. I was telling her "Hey! It's over! Why are you still going on? What is there to gain?". I eventually started getting pissed at her obstinate attitude and the example she was setting for her son, wanted to cuss her out myself once or twice since her mind was so locked to reason, and left her standing on the corner by saying "Hey, I'm going to set a good example now. Good bye. Sorry for the trouble, kid." and left without another word.

[Aez]

In this industry? Really? Think of all the multiply-failed people who somehow keep finding someone who will hire them. It's pretty baffling: people with money sacks seem to think it's better to turn over rocks looking for slugs rather than take a chance on that nice looking flower over there.

Look, there are a lot of lulzy failures in the industry, but the cream of that crop is the triple headed hydra of Allen, Bowman, and Smart. We can talk about all these other folks, but really, we're just pissing in the wind if we don't place those 3 on top.

John Romero?

[ajax34i]

It amazes me he ran all that through legal council. 

Actually that completely makes sense to me:  if David ever wants to talk to him directly, it'll be "talk to the lawyers", but on that trusty public internet forum where he's posting, that's secure communication because that's where all his friends are.

[01101010]

Now I get it... I think. Is David actually winning by pulling the Doktor's strings? It would make sense given Dmart's affinity to opening up when baited. 

[Murgos]

John Romero?

As other people have noted, John Romero very quietly built a successful company and had some successful releases in between 2001 and 2009.  He's probably not the example you want.

[tgr]

Agreed. Romero had the worst start to ion storm with his terribad daikatana, but he's stopped with the "suck it down" etc crap, and apparently made quite a lot of games for mobiles etc (I think it was). I'd say that warrants taking him off that list, as he learned his lesson.

[Kovacs]

I just read through the whole lawsuit PDF and I gotta say, everything here hinges on Smart, Allen, and QOL having any credibility or ability to work in this industry prior to these events.

Not to take this too seriously but the defamation is really a small part of the complaint, although may lead to the biggest recovery if successful.  That said, defamation is defamation and never really leads to elegant or straightforward litigation.  Although in this case...

Otherwise the NDA violations can amount to a signifcant award if there realy is proprietary tech. involved.  Intellectual property in the tech. fields tend to get some pretty impressive valuations in these cases.  So whatever the state of the Truegames deal or any other future potential deals were in before Dr. Dumbass got involved they're now dead and as it's unlikely 3000AD will pay fmv for it QOL has fairly obviously been damaged.  

The current spate of negative press has demonstrably and markedly decreased the value of the intellectual property owned by QOL.  The responsibility for this decrease can be laid right on the doorstep of Dr. Derek STFU-Already and is pretty obviously contrary to his fiduciary responsibility to either his client or his employer (depending on who you ask) to maximize the valuation of his clients property, now ostensibly his property.  A favorable result here is really gonna sting.

A successful wrongful termination action is also going to lead to a pretty substantial reward, although I can't remember if it's triple indemnification if there's no civil right violations.  Still Allen was getting a pile of cash and given he's not likely to be re employed anytime soon Allen could potentially stand to gain at least slightly more than the cost of dinner and a movie.

All things that can go very badly for QOL et. al. even if Alllen is the drooling drivelling retard his worst critics say that he is.

The more I read the more I think that DS is going to be genuinely shcoked by the result of this if (when) he gets an unfavorable result.  I really think he is of the opinion that wasting the companies money and hiring a bunch of incompetent fools  to make a horrbile game is justification for all the idiocy he's been spewing.  Allen was the controlling manager of the place and as far as we've seen he had carte blanche to hire strippers (NOT hookers) and throw keggers every damn night so long as there was adequate disclosure to the stakeholders.  

The only way I can imaine Allen could get himself in trouble is by intentionally and knowingly misleading the shareholders to his own advantage.  A claim that's pretty much been the action de jur since Enron and has resulted in about 1 positive result worth about $18 in damages.  It's even tougher case to amake here as QOL is a privately held entity and Allen had just about as much to lose by the products failure as anyone.

*That said the sheer tonnage of things I don't know about this case could quite probably stun a team of oxen, obviously.

[LK]

 

[rattran]

Stuff.

  I read it twice, and think it may be the best Bloodworth impression we've had here. Lacking in coherence, cohesion, AND sense.

[Draegan]

You actually read it?

[rattran]

Twice!

[Abagadro]

Made sense to me.

/shrug

[tmp]

I'm fuzzy on this whole lawyer thing. Would a claim Mr.Allen is currently unable to find work because of what was said by Dr.Dmart require some sort of proving that the latter actually has any credibility, and that anyone srsly listens to what he's got to say? I mean, that could be interesting spectacle entirely on its own...

[Stabs]

I just read through the whole lawsuit PDF and I gotta say, everything here hinges on Smart, Allen, and QOL having any credibility or ability to work in this industry prior to these events.

Which, btw, is lol. These two should embrace eachother because the san lost taken by anyone else who encounters them would kill most normal nerds. Misery loves company, dudes, kiss and make up. You have no one else.

No it doesn't.

Much of the complaint concerns breaches of the Operating Agreement for QOL. Mainly that removing a manager required unanimous agreement. Since we can presume that David Allen did not vote to remove himself his "firing" is in breach if indeed the Operating Agreement includes that clause.

The pdf maintains that legally David Allen is still a member of QOL since he can only be removed by unanimous vote (and presumably has not voted to remove himself). This is turn hamstrings what QOL and Serek Dmart are allowed to do since the Operating Agreement can only be amended by unanimous agreement (according to the pdf).

If the people who ousted David Allen are in breach of the company constitution then David Allen has a pretty good case.

Next there's no issue of wrongful termination anywhere that I could see. This is an argument over a piece of property by the owners of that property and it would seem that according to the company constitution DA is still an owner, still a manager and has been unlawfully restricted from access to the company he manages and part-owns.

The pdf challenges the appointment of DS:

83. Optimus' demands [to put Serek Dmart in charge] were in violation of the Operating Agreement

and maintains that Serek Dmart did not have the authority to remove David Allen granted to him by the investment amendment addendum (the paperwork bringing Smart in, signed by DA in January 2010).

Regarding the defamation the pdf establishes grounds for violation of UN article 17

Article 17 of the United Nations International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights states

"    1. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to unlawful attacks on his honour and reputation.
    2. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks. "
(emphasis added, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation ).

as well as damage to his future employment and finance-raising capabilities.

In other words even if he was completely unemployable/unbackable before Serek Dmart started he still has the right to damages in response to unlawful attacks on his honour and reputation.

Was he unemployable/unbackable?

No surely not. He made Horizons and Alganon. Horizons is still going as a commercial concern. Alganon is still going and the fact that the plug has not been pulled implies that the current investors believe it can be turned round and made profitable. Alternatively they will have to admit in open court that they're willingly throwing good money after bad. If Alganon does turn round then he will be one of the only developers with two commercially viable MMOs out there.

Critically we may think his games are terrible but surely for legal purposes all that matters is whether he could possibly make commercially viable games. If Horizons/Istaria is still paying its bills then that's proven. Even if it weren't it would be a very big ask to prove that someone should never work in an industry again because they could not possibly succeed.

[palmer_eldritch]

From here.


It amazes me he ran all that through legal council.  

He seems to think that if he posts in an "unofficial capacity" it doesn't count.

[palmer_eldritch]

I don't know US libel law but certainly in the UK you can't get away with claiming "This is the guy who goes and "withdraws" whatever little money was left in the company, then gave it to attorneys (first one in Seattle, we just laughed at and sent him packing, then he got another in AZ - we're still laughing)  in a bid to sue the very company and investors whose money it was. Money that was for payroll and company expenses." unless you are able to prove in court when challenged that he really did steal that money. I mean, that's what the post says.

[Stabs]

I don't know US libel law but certainly in the UK you can't get away with claiming "This is the guy who goes and "withdraws" whatever little money was left in the company, then gave it to attorneys (first one in Seattle, we just laughed at and sent him packing, then he got another in AZ - we're still laughing)  in a bid to sue the very company and investors whose money it was. Money that was for payroll and company expenses." unless you are able to prove in court when challenged that he really did steal that money. I mean, that's what the post says.

Libel law is pretty different over there.

Defamation law in the United States is much less plaintiff-friendly than its counterparts in European and the Commonwealth countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation

However DS still can't get away with claiming the money was stolen if DA's claim that part of the money is his, that he is still legally the manager of QOL and has never lawfully been removed from that position turns out to be supported by the paperwork as claimed in the pdf court document.

I think where DS has been particularly foolish is his desire to take this to the internet. You can, legally, be pretty rude about people and get away with it if you don't go out of your way to disseminate that information everywhere and in public.

On the bright side I think DS has achieved new milestones in internet posting.

[Abagadro]

I'm fuzzy on this whole lawyer thing. Would a claim Mr.Allen is currently unable to find work because of what was said by Dr.Dmart require some sort of proving that the latter actually has any credibility, and that anyone srsly listens to what he's got to say? I mean, that could be interesting spectacle entirely on its own...

What was said was pretty close (if not the outright definition) to being defamation per se which is a particular type of defamation where you don't have to really prove special damages, i.e. you don't have to prove up the dollars you specifically lost.  Truth is still a defense though.

[UnSub]

I haven't read the court documents, but a lot of this comes down to trying to prove some kind of intent.

In one corner, Allen appears to be saying, "We tried our best to launch a game and then D-Sma came and stabbed me in the back. To the courts!"

In the other, D-Sma is going with, "I don't want to point any fingers, but Allen is a lying liar who lies. To the courts!"

End result: a winner is us.

John Romero?

As other people have noted, John Romero very quietly built a successful company and had some successful releases in between 2001 and 2009.  He's probably not the example you want.

Romero is still a great example. There was the pissing match he got into with Mike Wilson and his development history continues to be spotty. He's founded several studios and closed them too or walked away, plus reports are that since Slipgate Ironworks joined Gazillion (where John claims to be a founder and may have the title Executive Vice-President) it has seen large layoffs and may actually be a studio in name only. (Most likely these people have all been moved to other, more urgent Gazillion projects and I've heard a rumour that Romero may even be the lead developer on the new Marvel Universe Online game - after all, the EVP of Gazillion needs to be doing something with his time.)

Looking at Romero's recent games history, his last title appears to be as a Lead Quality Assurance Tester for Heavy Rain. This is probably an error on MobyGames' part, but if true: 

So: Romero may not be the industry fool he once was, but he also serves as a case for continuing to fail yet finding investors to fund it.

[March]

That is the operational definition of unstoppable. The lawyers must have told him that he cannot and must not continue to post on the whole matter besides a brief bit of boilerplate "high confidence that our judgment will be vindicated" etc, but they can't get him to. He'll keep yakking all the way up to the day that his lawyer turns to him and tells him he has to pay a settlement, and then he'll talk some more the day after he writes the check. Just imagine a settlement that included the condition that Serek forgo future public comment. That would be like a law that orders the sun not to rise tomorrow.

The fancy legal term is, Annuity.

[taolurker]

From here.

 

I mean

  - I got nothing else for this...

Just because it's semi relevant, the MMORPG site isn't the only place Dmart has posted after Allen's response. He posted the exact same thing that's on MMORPG over into the Massively comments page as well.

The text is exactly the same on both, and I seriously doubt it was filtered through "legal counsel" because not only would a good lawyer tell him to keep quiet, but also would never allow him to refer to cases like this as "extortion" publicly.

[CmdrSlack]

All of the filtering in the world can't keep a client from shooting his mouth off like a dumbass.

Even the best lawyer in the world can't control an uncontrollable client.

[Lantyssa]

They can revoke their services, however.  It'll be great if the only lawyer firm he can keep is Dewey, Cheetum, and Howe.

[Goreschach]

I love this game.

[CmdrSlack]

They can revoke their services, however.  It'll be great if the only lawyer firm he can keep is Dewey, Cheetum, and Howe.

From experience, sometimes it is harder to fire your client than one would think. But yes, doing shit like that would be a pretty decent reason to withdraw. It all depends on the judge, really.

[Lantyssa]

What are the chances the good doktor is representing himself?  Then everything he says is vetted by his lawyers?

[Abagadro]

Even if he was going pro se, he couldn't represent any of the entities or other individual defendants.

As I said earlier, the dude is an opposing counsel's dream.

[Lum]

If Horizons/Istaria is still paying its bills then that's proven.

Horizons may be "paying its bills" (as far as I know it has ~ 1 to 2 thousand subs) but it has never even come close to recouping its development costs.

Romero is still a great example. There was the pissing match he got into with Mike Wilson and his development history continues to be spotty. He's founded several studios and closed them too or walked away, plus reports are that since Slipgate Ironworks joined Gazillion (where John claims to be a founder and may have the title Executive Vice-President) it has seen large layoffs and may actually be a studio in name only.  

If you look at what each party said in that pissing match, Wilson is definitely slinging a LOT more mud. Last I heard Slipgate was still working on an MMO as part of Gazillion, and avoiding all publicity specifically to avoid "Romero's Latest Project" sort of news stories.

Plus, uh, Romero designed Doom. Last I checked neither David Allen nor Serek Dmart had anything like that on their resume.

[schild]

Plus, uh, Romero designed Doom. Last I checked neither David Allen nor Serek Dmart had anything like that on their resume.

Garriot designed Ultima, that doesn't make him any less unemployably crazy than he is in the present, nor did it before NCSoft decided it was a good idea. Look what happened there. What's your point?

I mean, I agree with the rest of what you have to say, but your edit is ridiculous. Hell, comparing Romero to those guys is already ridiculous but they're all varying levels of burnt out, Romero is just the "Old Guard never Evolved" brand of silly whereas those guys are core evil and outright lame).

You didn't make the comparison though. Romero is a terrible example. They're totally different classes of "THESE GUYS NEED TO GET AWAY FROM GAME DEVELOPMENT."