Nvidia 3D Vision

[Cyrrex]

As a person who probably has way too many toys, I'd been running out of ideas for new shit I absolutely needed to get myself.  So I went out and procured Nvidia's 3D vision kit and a brand new 120hz monitor bundle.  Surely, some of you other people around here have either done the same, or are at least curious about the tech.

I've literally just set mine up last night and have only managed to test it for about 15 minutes.  Of all things, I chose Battlefied 1942 (yeah, the one that's like 8 years old).  My graphics drivers claimed that 3D visiion would work "Excellent" for that game (there is a compatibility list that rates games), which I suppose is why I tried it out first.  So, I'm sure that I'll have plenty of negative experiences with this tech with other games, but I can say this much:  this stuff actually works.  In this particular case, I'd say it works pretty damn well.  The 3D really, really pops and the game was still completely playable.  To my surprise, the actual aiming and shooting mechanics seem to be improved with this added field of depth...I was actually worried that it might be the opposite.  No major artifacts, or at least, nothing that detracted from the amazing depth perception that I experienced.

Anyway, I thought I would start this thread for any of us that either have the tech or are interested in learning more about it.  The price point is coming down, so it may be something that has a chance of taking off.  I'm sure that if they actually begin designing games to take advantage of this technology, then it will be amazing.

Also, it'd be nice to start developing a list of games that work well (or not) with 3D visiion.  I understand that Left 4 Dead is supposed to be the most amazing visual experience in gaming when combined with this tech, for example, so I'm probably going to go grab that today.  WoW is supposed to be good, too, but I'm not sure I want to go back there...

[01101010]

As a person who probably has way too many toys, I'd been running out of ideas for new shit I absolutely needed to get myself. 

I am not opposed to hand-me-downs and cast-offs, as well as donations. 

[Kageh]

I've had that for a while too, and I find it quite impressive. I have to add I've been a sucker for this kind of stuff since reading about VR experiments in the early 90s in my school days, including to owning an ELSA Revelator somewhere around 2000. The technology has come a long way since then.

Batman: AA and AION work great, it really added a lot to Batman: AA for me. WoW used to work great but they broke the depth of the interface layer implementation a few driver releases ago at NVidia when hotfixing Avatar. I seriously would recommend staying clear of WoW for the moment OR using a driver release from somewhere before around October or so, when the bug occured.

I hear RE5 is one of the showcase titles and should be pretty awesome too.

Random stuff I tried and liked: Test Drive Unlimited, Dragon Age: Origins, Sacred 2, Street Fighter 4 (Fighters are still 2d, but the backgrounds are 3d, I think it looks pretty cool).

Borderlands didn't exactly look good, although it has a "Good" rating - flickering/duplicated shadows all over the place. NWN2 had some problems too. Readying Cyrrex' post I actually noticed I never really tried a shooter out of fear of losing too much FPS, I'll give this a go with BF:BC2.

Biggest downside is that it reduces framerates by about 50%-30%, depending on the game. WoW was pretty much 50% loss, I've seen games where it scales somewhere better (Batman: AA), but 30% was the minimum. AION newbie land was rock solid at 60, never went below 60, not even in the capital cities. Can't comment on mass PvP though, didn't get that far.

[Cyrrex]

I currently have the driver from the CD...I wouldn't normally keep it, but maybe I will if they've been introducing bugs recently.

Biggest downside is that it reduces framerates by about 50%-30%

For any of you following along at home, this is because your GPU has to transmit two images simultaneously (one right eye, one left eye).  Min specs probably require something like a 8800GT, but I suspect most things are going to require quite a bit more than that.

[Sky]

Sounds like a great app for SLI.

[Kageh]

It is, I did do some SLI tests with it, and if the game scales, you gain a noticeable fps increase. Sadly, WoW for example is a terrible SLI app, scaling from 0 to somewhere like +20% or even WORSE framerates than without SLI.

[Cyrrex]

What kind of GPU are you running Kageh?  Even with my GTX 285, I wonder how this is going to manage a few games.

[Kageh]

i7, OC'ed to 3.6 Ghz. I did use it with 2x260s for a while, now I'm using an OC'ed 280 and sold the 260s. I think your card should do great, for added fun you could always try overclocking and see how much you can squeeze out of them, 285s should go up pretty high.

[Cyrrex]

Tried a few more games.  Left 4 Dead is amazing in 3D.  I was laughing and squealing like a bitch when the zombies started running straight at me.

CoD4 also looks incredible.  I haven't decided yet if it's playable.  I guess I don't really want to play it again.

Can't get KOTOR to work...I think it's because I have the Best of PC version and it is having trouble recognizing that I've even launched the game.

Oblivion needs more testing.  My initial reaction is somewhat negative, but I didn't fiddle around with it much.  Also need to try an outdoor environment.

A little surprised to find out that for unsupported games, the 3D hardware doesn't even activate.  I guess I sorta thought that it would still attempt to work (or that I could force it to), but yield terrible results.

[Kageh]

Hmm did you try toggling manually via CTRL-T? I could get it to work for the "unknown" games that way at least. I don't remember trying anything unsupported though. Worst I tried was Age of Conan, which had a bad problem with shadows, but was only rated "poor".

[Cyrrex]

No dice...ctrl T only seems to work with games that are already supported.

[Ghambit]

Exactly WHICH 3d unit/kit are you using?
I've got an older entry-level 3d system and it was absolutely horrible, assuming the drivers even worked - which they didnt (when they did, it was only at mimimum resolutions).
Nvidia also discontinued their 3d support for quite some time.  Are you saying they've picked it back up again?  (I'm assuming due to the recent brash of 3d capable TVs, games, and movies out there these days)

What kind of resolutions are you running?

note: this tech does NOT work unless you're above 120Mhz... which means most people's desktop flat-panels are moot.  you're better off running it through your HD-TV

[Kageh]

This is what we're using: (summary from NVidia marketing) http://www.nvidia.com/object/3D_Vision_Main.html

Basically it works the way that the graphics driver uses the z-axis information from the 3d game engine to render two, horizontally slightly displaced images at approximately the same offset they would show for your eyes. Frames are rendered alternative, one for the left and one for the right eye, and you are using a pair of shutter glasses synchronized to the timing the graphics card is producing the pictures with. That way, the left eye shutter is closed when the monitor displays the image meant for the right eye and vice-versa.

You need a 120Hz display to use it, but the driver itself is compatible with all NVidia cards AFAIK. You'll just need sufficient horsepower to render the doubled amount of images required for 3D. Some games scale better than halving frame rates, I assume because the graphics card can reuse certain rendering results or something like that.

NVidia used to market a bundle of the Samsung 2233RZ + glasses during spring/summer last year, but nowadays you can get the glasses to work with a few more displays. I use that kit myself, running games at 1680x1050 with a GTX280 usually without problems. I'd say if a game can do 50-60 fps consistent non-3d, it probably is enough to go 3D with it.

Since the 3d rendering relies on the driver, you don't need any special patches or whatever for the games to work IF the game engine can be parsed by the driver correctly. You do run into the occasional trouble with special effects, mostly stuff like shadows, coronas, lens flares and various light reflections or refractions with are applied without correct depth information by the game engines, but most of the stuff just works out of the box. And when it works good, it enhances the game unbelievably.

@Cyrrex: You can try renaming the game .exe, because - just like with SLI - the driver toggles based on the name of the executable. Just rename it to something supported.

[Cyrrex]

Yeah, for the games that it works with, it's quite a site to behold.  Old CRT monitors that are 100hz or more will also work if you happen to have one laying around, as do a whole line of Mitsubishi DLP TVs for some reason.

@Kageh - interesting, I may have to try that. 

[Vision]

You need a 120Hz display to use it, but the driver itself is compatible with all NVidia cards AFAIK. You'll just need sufficient horsepower to render the doubled amount of images required for 3D. Some games scale better than halving frame rates, I assume because the graphics card can reuse certain rendering results or something like that.

I played the Batman AA, and some racing game at the Nividia booth at CES, and was also blown away. Although I remember the guy saying it only works with the 8800 series cards and up.

[Ghambit]

Anyone tried this on a 120Mhz HDTV yet?  If it works, I may be inclined to purchase one for my 55LH90 and run a wireless setup from by box.

[Kageh]

Not me, sorry. You could try the official forums for feedback on supported displays (http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showforum=40).

[Cyrrex]

Vision:  To be honest, anything less than an 8800gt would work like crap anyway.  On average, this tech will cut your FPS in half when you're running it.

Ghambit:  A regular 120hz TV will apparently NOT work...they use frame interpolation (it fakes up an artificial frame using an algorithm and inserts it in between two legit frames to make it come off smoother).  These 120hz monitors are true 120hz.  I bought the Viewsonic monitor, which now can be had bundled with the glasses for $400 bucks.  I believe Kageh has the more expensive Samsung monitor.  I think they're roughly comparable, though, and that the Viewsonic has simply dropped in price recently.

[Kageh]

Got the Samsung one, aye, it's a cool monitor but quite a bit overpriced for what you get in build quality. Aside from the 120Hz it features one meager DVI-D input and a flimsy stand that constantly wobbles and is not adjustable in height. Gaming quality is excellent though, no input lag at all, no smearing.

I read about 1080p 24" monitors that are 3D Vision ready finally coming out now (I believe Acer, Samsung and Dell all have a model ready), but I wonder how many games will be running great with 3d at 1080p on the current graphics cards.

[Nerf]

Would this work on a 240hz TV or a Plasma?  I know the 600hz rating on Plasmas is bullshit, but what is it /really/?

[Sky]

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3D_Vision_Requirements.html is less than helpful. I'm sure my creaky ol' 60Hz 720p set wouldn't be able to run this (though why can't they just throttle it to 30fps doubled?), but then they list this under supported HDTVs:

Generic DLP HDTV mode

Thanks! 

[Vision]

Doesn't AMD have a similar type of package coming out? Can anyone verify if it is out yet/as good as the Nvidia 3D?

[Cyrrex]

Nerf/Sky - there are a few reasons ordinary displays don't work.  First and foremost, in the early days of this tech there were compromises made to let it run at, for example, 30hz on each side.  Apparently it cause a lot of issues with users, so Nvidia this time around has simply stated that they won't let it do on anything less than 60hz per side.  Hence the 120hz requirement.  The reason that your plain old 120hz TV cannot accomplish this is because it isn't "true" 120hz.  Think about it for a minute.  A TV signal comes in at a max 60hz, so your 120hz tv isn't dealing with 120 frames per second.  It is dealing with 60, and drawing an artificial frame in between to smooth it out.  These 120hz monitors actually are dealing with 120 frames of interlaced signal per second (well, I guess it isn't interlaced when you're running in non-3D mode)  It isn't the same tech. 

[caladein]

Generic DLP HDTV mode

If I remember correctly, DLPs are already 3D-capable displays, at least when it comes to whatever tech was in the Avatar game.

[Sky]

You guys are both running this on a pc monitor? My tv bit the dust and I'm in the market for a new hdtv, love dlp and thinking about one of the mitsus that is compatible with this tech. Mostly because samsung isn't making big led dlps anymore, but being compatible with this is a cool side benefit.

Worried about framerate hits, too. 8800gtx has been WICKED for 720p gaming, but bumping to 1080 will probably be noticeable, and doubling that...Maybe if I just set the game res to 720p?

[Cyrrex]

Well...it probably depends on what you're playing.  Even with my 285 card, I'm getting what I would call unacceptable frame rate issues from CoD4, and even fucking HL2.  I may have other issues, or it may just be the games themselves.  Left 4 Dead (which is also a Valve game) runs brilliantly.  I would suspect that you'd struggle with an 8800gt for many modern games.  As a rule, it is going to cut your framerate in half, and sometimes even worse.

[Sky]

I would suspect that you'd struggle with an 8800gt for many modern games. 

8800GTX, top of the 8 generation.

I don't really do much FPS gaming, though. I was hoping Anno1404 and Fallout3 worked good, I also have Batman AA which is a feature title. Burnout Paradise would be pretty cool, too. Not the most demanding stuff in the world.

[Kageh]

I think you should be good for Burnout Paradise, not sure for Batman AA. What CPU are you using?

Anno is quite a framerate hog on my rig, sadly. I think that is an Anno thing :(

[Cyrrex]

My last card was an 8800 GT (minus the X), and I'm sure it would struggle with the FPS games in 3D.  I played Fallout 3 on the 360, so I have no idea how that performs.  Anyway, I'm sure you'd be fine with some games. 

Tried Dragon Age on a whim for 5 minutes yesterday.  Expected it to not perform very well, and my drivers only rated it as "good" for 3D on startup.  Aside from a couple strange issues, it was actually fucking awesome.  The framerate even held up quite well.  That was just running around town, though...no idea how it'll hold up in combat.

[Sky]

I've got an e6600 C2D with 4GB RAM running W7. Going to see how that plays with the new set for a while and then consider the glasses.

Pulled the trigger on the tv yesterday. Last night the fiance was Ms. Chuckles, joking non-stop about the 27" crt I pulled out of the basement. So I'm not going to tell her I bought the new set until it's delivered just to bust her (figurative) balls.

[Kageh]

Rule of thumb IMO is pretty much "Would this still be playable at half the framerate"? Anything ending up in the 15-20fps range or below would probably not be playable.

[Cyrrex]

Pulled the trigger on the tv yesterday. Last night the fiance was Ms. Chuckles, joking non-stop about the 27" crt I pulled out of the basement. So I'm not going to tell her I bought the new set until it's delivered just to bust her (figurative) balls.

You're my hero.

[Sky]

Got the new set in yesterday. Looks great, nice to game in a higher res but the gpu does struggle with some titles. Crysis always ran hot, even at 1280x720: five minutes put it into the 90C+ range. Frame rates were good (able to notch back FSAA with the higher res), I'm just concerned about heat.

Guy backed out of buying my 720p set, so no money for the 3d stuff anyway :)

[Cyrrex]

You have an extra kidney, right?

[Sky]

You have an extra kidney, right?

Not any more, I guess.

TF2 is totally amazing. The first time I got pegged by a rocket was because I was just watching it fly at me. I'm pretty much a newb and didn't do anything but spam grenades and had a great time because it was so unreal looking.

Burnout is great, might take some getting used to the 3d effects. Batman AA was cool. Civ 4 (well FFH2) is giving me a bug with city names and pop #s, takes a few seconds to sync when zooming in or out and sometimes doesn't sync properly. Torchlight looks good but the 2d cursor and loot floaters is very disorienting. Tomb Raider Underworld wasn't working on my initial try.

Probably need to tweak things a bit more, but frame rates are solid on all those games. Batman froze a couple times but ctrl-alt-del fixed it somehow, so I didn't play it too long.

This tech is amazing when it works, and pretty good when it partially works. I'm astounded by how much it adds to immersion.