iPad

[Mattemeo]

You'd probably need to pump the battery to a minimum of 12 hours, but 10 is acceptable if you can pop in a new one (like a laptop battery).

2 problems here. 1: You simply are not going to get 10 hours useage out of the iPad unless all you want it to do is display the time. Full screen video and wifi/3G use is going to drain that battery dead in half that time. 2: Hello Mac, hello closed user access. You won't be replacing the battery in it yourself any time soon, short of buying some kind of bulky dock/extra battery affair which again, makes having the iPad in the first place seem pointless when you need to cart around more peripherals than the average laptop.

[Morat20]

2 problems here. 1: You simply are not going to get 10 hours useage out of the iPad unless all you want it to do is display the time. Full screen video and wifi/3G use is going to drain that battery dead in half that time. 2: Hello Mac, hello closed user access. You won't be replacing the battery in it yourself any time soon, short of buying some kind of bulky dock/extra battery affair which again, makes having the iPad in the first place seem pointless when you need to cart around more peripherals than the average laptop.

Yeah. I know.

Right now, I think your average tablet is a better choice. *shrug*. People saying it's an e-reader killer or a Kindle killer are just smoking crack, though. I could see it becoming a nice media station, but not the way it is now.

[AutomaticZen]

2 problems here. 1: You simply are not going to get 10 hours useage out of the iPad unless all you want it to do is display the time. Full screen video and wifi/3G use is going to drain that battery dead in half that time. 2: Hello Mac, hello closed user access. You won't be replacing the battery in it yourself any time soon, short of buying some kind of bulky dock/extra battery affair which again, makes having the iPad in the first place seem pointless when you need to cart around more peripherals than the average laptop.

A wireless/3G toggle would probably solve that problem.  A physical switch to turn it on and off.

[Prospero]

Keeping it charged should be pretty trivial. Most airports and planes I've seen recently had USB plugs for charging small electric devices( although I don't get around all that much ). Also I don't see why it would be a bad ebook reader. I've read quite a bit on the iPhone it is perfectly acceptable.

[Morat20]

Keeping it charged should be pretty trivial. Most airports and planes I've seen recently had USB plugs for charging small electric devices( although I don't get around all that much ). Also I don't see why it would be a bad ebook reader. I've read quite a bit on the iPhone it is perfectly acceptable.

Several reasons. First, and probably least: It's too heavy. A pound and a half? Doesn't sound like much until you're trying to horse it around like a book. People can, and will, use it to read. But it's not built for it -- the ergonomics and the weight are simply wrong for holding for long periods of time.

Second, and most important -- it's backlit. It's a recipe for eyestrain. (There's a reason ebooks use e-ink. It's not because LCDs are too expensive). Reading for any length of time is simply going to make your eyes hurt.

Lastly -- it's too big. Not just "too heavy" -- to BIG. Books are portable, hardbacks less so but still. This thing is big and fragile.

Ebooks are sized to have roughly the weight and proportions of a real book (either paper or hardback) so they can be held like one. Their screens are made to mimic ink, so they can be read without eyestrain -- even though it requires a light in darker conditions.

It's probably a good selling point that it can handle ebooks --- if you're already lugging it around, being able to call up reference works or charts is nice. However, it's not going to outsell the Kindle or Nook as an e-reader. People who buy the iPad for other reasons might put up with the awkwardness, the weight, the eyestrain, and the short battery span and read books on it so they don't ALSO have to lug around a Kindle or whatnot.

Even then, I doubt it'd be used as an ereader often. 

[Prospero]

Harry Potter Deathly Hallows soft cover weighs 13.6 ounces. The hard cover weighs 2.6 pounds. A Kindle DX( the big one ) is also a pound and half. The iPad isn't looking too far out of whack here. The regular Kindle is 10.6 ounces.

I've never suffered eye strain from a backlit screen, but I can accept that is an issue for some people. Flipping through the research it looks as if tweaking the hue and brightness of the screen can reduce these effects, but I still can imagine it will be issue for some people.

As to the big part, it's smaller than both my laptop and my sketchbook that I routinely carry. It's smaller than most of the books I take on the train. It's is larger than a mini-Kindle, but not by all that much. It won't fit in a evening bag, but it probably fits in most purses(especially these days. )

I agree that the need for this thing is debatable, but some of your arguments don't seem all that valid.

[Morat20]

Have you sat there and tried reading from a backlit screen for six or eight hours straight? 'Cause that'll cause eyestrain, which will worsen with repetition, in anyone. I use a PC all day -- it doesn't bother me. But if that was the source of ALL the reading I did? My eyes would hate me.

I'm not going to argue that the last Harry Potter book was a fucking beast. I know I had no fucking intention of carrying around a book that damn big. Most people don't -- they read them at home. Most of the people lugging books around seem to prefer paperbacks, or relatively light and thin hardbacks. Because most hardbacks are too big and heavy for easy carrying.

I read Anathem at home. I read Matter at work, but only because I was already using a backpack and had nothing else do do at 3:00 AM. I don't tote hardbacks around as casual reading if I can avoid it.

I don't like the DX -- it's too big. I mean, the extra screen size is nice -- but it crossed from 'easily portable' to 'bulky'. I feel the same way about books -- I'd much prefer to carry a paperback than a hardback, any day of the week.

As for the Kindle proper -- I can't speak for the DX, but the ergonomics on the Kindle 2 are nice. The page button is right where your thumb rests when holding it -- and holding it is pretty much exactly like holding an ordinary paperback.

I guess my problem with the iPad boils down to: It's a lot less functional than your laptop. Or your tablet PC, for that matter. It's not that much more functional than your iPhone, especially given the price. It's not as good an e-reader as a kindle. I don't see what you're getting, in improved functionality and use, for the money. I don't doubt that some people -- the folks stuck lugging reference books, laptop, etc -- will find it'll consolidate all that down into one device.

I just don't think there's that many people.

I'll keep my iPhone (well, iPhone equivilant) and my Kindle. There's nothing the iPad does that I need or really even want that the iPhone doesn't do adequately enough. Why spend all the extra money? And the Kindle -- seriously, fuck backlit screens for reading. I get enough of that shit at work.

[AutomaticZen]

As for the Kindle proper -- I can't speak for the DX, but the ergonomics on the Kindle 2 are nice. The page button is right where your thumb rests when holding it -- and holding it is pretty much exactly like holding an ordinary paperback.

Easier in my opinion.  The weight, ease of use, and e-ink is what convinced me to switch.

[Bunk]

I actually had a customer tell me yesterday that he thought the iPad was an awesome device. Now admittedly, this guy was a complete Brent Sienna, Apple will take over the world type, but still. After he spent 20 minutes complaining about our lack of OSX compatibility, and telling me about his vast number of Mac using clients, he went on to explain how awesome the iPad is going to be for Realtors like himself. Apparently he is convinced it will be easier to show his clients pictures of houses on his iPad than it would be to say use a netbook. We'll see.

[Malakili]

I actually had a customer tell me yesterday that he thought the iPad was an awesome device. Now admittedly, this guy was a complete Brent Sienna, Apple will take over the world type, but still. After he spent 20 minutes complaining about our lack of OSX compatibility, and telling me about his vast number of Mac using clients, he went on to explain how awesome the iPad is going to be for Realtors like himself. Apparently he is convinced it will be easier to show his clients pictures of houses on his iPad than it would be to say use a netbook. We'll see.

I mean, if he wants to use it as a glorified digital picture frame, I'm sure it'll function in that regard just fine.

[AutomaticZen]

I actually had a customer tell me yesterday that he thought the iPad was an awesome device. Now admittedly, this guy was a complete Brent Sienna, Apple will take over the world type, but still. After he spent 20 minutes complaining about our lack of OSX compatibility, and telling me about his vast number of Mac using clients, he went on to explain how awesome the iPad is going to be for Realtors like himself. Apparently he is convinced it will be easier to show his clients pictures of houses on his iPad than it would be to say use a netbook. We'll see.

Actually, for that use...yeah.  I could see it.

[ghost]

I'm not going to argue that the last Harry Potter book was a fucking beast. I know I had no fucking intention of carrying around a book that damn big. Most people don't -- they read them at home. Most of the people lugging books around seem to prefer paperbacks, or relatively light and thin hardbacks. Because most hardbacks are too big and heavy for easy carrying.

That's not the main reason most adults read Harry Potter at home

[Jeff Kelly]

Despite the fear of being branded Apple Fanboy for good.

The compariosn of the iPad and netbooks is stupid. "I can do everything that the iPad does on a netbook and even more" is NOT the point.

It's not about cheaper or smaller. A netbook is a tiny computer with the same problems and complexity issues of a real computer. People that don't like normal sized computers won't buy tiny computers because they are exactly the same only smaller and cheaper.

It's not the size or the price. If your average user is overwhelmed by the complexity of Windows or Linux and can't really use it without technical support by friends or family he won't buy a netbook because he'd be dealing with the same problems only on a smaller device.

My mother won't suddenly buy a netbook because it's cheaper and smaller than a normal PC because it still is a PC. It runs Windows or Linux, it runs the same applications, it's used in exactly the same way as a normal computer and she'd have to battle with exactly the same issues that keep her from using a normal computer.

The same with current phones. The majority of people doesn't like using computers because they are overwhelmed by all of the issues and the inherent complexity of those devices. The majority of users doesn't like using smart phones ecause they are overwhelmed by all of the issues and the inherent complexity of those devices.

Ask anybody who is not a geek if he likes to work on a PC or about his recent frustrations with technology. People who religiuously post on the internets are not the target audience for such devices. We get computers, we like to tinker with them, we are the car nuts of the internet age. We are fringe.

Unfortunately we are the ones who design and build computers, who design and build software that run on those computers, who design and build all of the appliances that normal people use every day.

We build and buy the equivalent of a Lancia Stratos or Mustang GT with unsynchronized gearboxes, chokes, manual transmissions and stuff while everybody else wants a Honda Automatic with satnav.

It's not about whether you or I will buy one. Of course we won't. This doesn't change the fact however that the comparison of netbooks and those tablets is pointless. It's pointless because for us it's a comparison between a small computer that's cheap has more features and offers more performance than an iPad and an appliance that does less and is more expensive.

For others it's a comparison between something that resembles the thing they don't like using (or never managed to use properly) only smaller and something that does most or all of the things they need only without the inherent complexity.

Asking why anybody should buy an appliance that is more expensive than a netbook is asking the wrong question. Why are so few people actually buying netbooks although they are cheap and do nearly everything a real pc does? Is a much more clever question.

[Samwise]

The same with current phones. The majority of people doesn't like using computers because they are overwhelmed by all of the issues and the inherent complexity of those devices. The majority of users doesn't like using smart phones ecause they are overwhelmed by all of the issues and the inherent complexity of those devices.

If smart phones are too complicated for people, and the iPhone is a smart phone, and the iPad is essentially a bigger iPhone, then... 

[AutomaticZen]

The compariosn of the iPad and netbooks is stupid. "I can do everything that the iPad does on a netbook and even more" is NOT the point.

Already been over the rest.  We did not make the comparison first.  Apple did.

On all the rest, one answer: Android netbook.  ZOMG!

[naum]

The compariosn of the iPad and netbooks is stupid. "I can do everything that the iPad does on a netbook and even more" is NOT the point.

Already been over the rest.  We did not make the comparison first.  Apple did.

On all the rest, one answer: Android netbook.  ZOMG!

According to those that have handled an iPad, in terms of responsiveness, snappiness, UI, etc.… there is no comparison — netbooks are slow and clunky (at least at that <= $500 price point, which I believe will be <$300 come next year)…

Also, I see lots of comparisons to netbooks with traditional HD v. flash storage. Yeah, having 120G is a plus over 16/32/64G, but is easily negated by advantages of a flash drive…

AFA Kindle e-Ink display, I can't attest to spending long periods with it, but its font rendering, page turn lag and washed out B&W seem inferior to color, much superior anti-aliasing on the Apple display…

On its bulkiness — it's ~7.5 in by ~9.5 in — that's smaller than a sheet of 8.5 x 11 inch paper and only 0.5 in thick — thinner than a MacBook Air (to me, it seems that this is the device "obsoleted")…

Unlike all the netbook WiFi setups I see, includes 802.11n (the Wii is the only device in my home not capable of 802.11n)…

Use cases?

√ reading the newspaper at breakfast time or on the couch instead of the computer… …or in my desire, my Google Reader feeds…

√ smart remote control sitting on the coffee table that can drive TV, music players and home computers throughout the home…

√ a slick gaming pad that makes the DS and PSP archaic throwbacks…

√ a textbook replacement, with color, hyperlinks, charts, graphics, images, sound, video, etc.… 

√ while unsuitable for heavy duty computing on business travel, certainly sufficient or vacation/leisure travel, with or without a wireless/dockable keyboard accompaniment…

√ while panned as "content consumption" with little use for "content creation", there actually is a whole realm of existing and heretofore realm of new applications suited for touch "drag and drop" UI — mind mapping, charting (OmniGraffle (or Visio for you Windows folk)), note taking, annotating, etc.…

√ and don't forget about the elderly ;)

[Mrbloodworth]

You know, apple is just laughing at you. All of you (and by that I mean the world).

Because you know they have a fully functional/beefy version SITTING in the production cue for 2012. Just like the iPhone. You don't design a product like this, then sell the best version, you design the product fully, then, strip it down in functionality, and sell the lesser versions as you ramp back up to the full. So you get the upgrade monies.

[Malakili]

You know, apple is just laughing at you. All of you (and by that I mean the world).

Because you know they have a fully functional/beefy version SITTING in the production cue for 2012. Just like the iPhone. You don't design a product like this, then sell the best version, you design the product fully, then, strip it down in functionality, and sell the lesser versions as you ramp back up to the full. So you get the upgrade monies.

I was thinking this as well.  I'll wait about 5 years when they finally release a version of this that does what I want, and then maybe i'll buy it.  Until then, its going to be a pretty piece of hardware that people put on their coffee table to impress their friends when they come over.  I'd much rather have something like a Touch Book.

[Righ]

You know, apple is just laughing at you.

Probably not as much as I am.

[Ookii]

All these pros for the iPad are also pros for the new tablets coming out with the Tegra chipset. The only thing those can't do is download stuff from the App Store.

IMHO it's about 2-3 years too late.

[Lantyssa]

Use cases?

√ reading the newspaper at breakfast time or on the couch instead of the computer… …or in my desire, my Google Reader feeds…
√ smart remote control sitting on the coffee table that can drive TV, music players and home computers throughout the home…
√ a slick gaming pad that makes the DS and PSP archaic throwbacks…
√ a textbook replacement, with color, hyperlinks, charts, graphics, images, sound, video, etc.… 
√ while unsuitable for heavy duty computing on business travel, certainly sufficient or vacation/leisure travel, with or without a wireless/dockable keyboard accompaniment…
√ while panned as "content consumption" with little use for "content creation", there actually is a whole realm of existing and heretofore realm of new applications suited for touch "drag and drop" UI — mind mapping, charting (OmniGraffle (or Visio for you Windows folk)), note taking, annotating, etc.…

How about using:

• a newspaper?
• your TV's remote?
• a gaming device with an actual selection of games?

To be fair, I can think of some potential uses, too.

• a coaster
• a serving tray
• a substitute to fine china for throwing during an argument
• a way to throw money away

[Mrbloodworth]

Use cases?

√ reading the newspaper at breakfast time or on the couch instead of the computer… …or in my desire, my Google Reader feeds…
√ smart remote control sitting on the coffee table that can drive TV, music players and home computers throughout the home…
√ a slick gaming pad that makes the DS and PSP archaic throwbacks…
√ a textbook replacement, with color, hyperlinks, charts, graphics, images, sound, video, etc.… 
√ while unsuitable for heavy duty computing on business travel, certainly sufficient or vacation/leisure travel, with or without a wireless/dockable keyboard accompaniment…
√ while panned as "content consumption" with little use for "content creation", there actually is a whole realm of existing and heretofore realm of new applications suited for touch "drag and drop" UI — mind mapping, charting (OmniGraffle (or Visio for you Windows folk)), note taking, annotating, etc.…

How about using:

• a newspaper?
• your TV's remote?
• a gaming device with an actual selection of games?

To be fair, I can think of some potential uses, too.

• a coaster
• a serving tray
• a substitute to fine china for throwing during an argument
• a way to throw money away

* Star trek LARPING

[Pennilenko]

* Star trek LARPING

/thread

[Lounge]

Have you sat there and tried reading from a backlit screen for six or eight hours straight? 'Cause that'll cause eyestrain

I get where you are coming from, but even a relatively short flight (4 or 5 hours) reading a printed book destroys my eyes.

[Pennilenko]

I get where you are coming from, but even a relatively short flight (4 or 5 hours) reading a printed book destroys my eyes.

If that's true you probably need to see an eye doctor for a check up.

[Trippy]

The iPad's too big to be a TNG-era Federation standard-issue PADD (there are bigger versions but you don't see those as often on the shows). The Kindle is too big as well.

[Mrbloodworth]

The iPad's too big to be a TNG-era Federation standard-issue PADD (there are bigger versions but you don't see those as often on the shows). The Kindle is too big as well.

Clearly they just need to miniaturize the thing now.  

They do come in lots of sizes though:


Linky to PADD's

[AutomaticZen]

According to those that have handled an iPad, in terms of responsiveness, snappiness, UI, etc.… there is no comparison — netbooks are slow and clunky (at least at that <= $500 price point, which I believe will be <$300 come next year)…

It's less than $500 now.

AFA Kindle e-Ink display, I can't attest to spending long periods with it, but its font rendering, page turn lag and washed out B&W seem inferior to color, much superior anti-aliasing on the Apple display…

If I'm using it as an e-reader, I don't care.  I'm reading books in perfect clarity.  The whole point of the Kindle is a reading experience that mimics paper.  Period.  The screen can be read in direct light and the battery requires far less frequent charges than any other device.

On its bulkiness — it's ~7.5 in by ~9.5 in — that's smaller than a sheet of 8.5 x 11 inch paper and only 0.5 in thick — thinner than a MacBook Air (to me, it seems that this is the device "obsoleted")…

Who said it was bulky?  It's twice as heavy as the Kindle, which personally indicates to me that it might be a slight bit too heavy for prolonged used for the elderly, but that's neither here nor there.

Unlike all the netbook WiFi setups I see, includes 802.11n (the Wii is the only device in my home not capable of 802.11n)…

I can give you three netbooks that came out in early 2009 that have 802.11n.

Use cases?

√ reading the newspaper at breakfast time or on the couch instead of the computer… …or in my desire, my Google Reader feeds…

√ smart remote control sitting on the coffee table that can drive TV, music players and home computers throughout the home…

√ a slick gaming pad that makes the DS and PSP archaic throwbacks…

√ a textbook replacement, with color, hyperlinks, charts, graphics, images, sound, video, etc.…  

√ while unsuitable for heavy duty computing on business travel, certainly sufficient or vacation/leisure travel, with or without a wireless/dockable keyboard accompaniment…

√ while panned as "content consumption" with little use for "content creation", there actually is a whole realm of existing and heretofore realm of new applications suited for touch "drag and drop" UI — mind mapping, charting (OmniGraffle (or Visio for you Windows folk)), note taking, annotating, etc.…

Of course it can do all those.  Our point, time and time again, is something else can do it the same or better, for a smaller price tag.

√ and don't forget about the elderly ;)

Here's the thing I don't get.  Look at the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-YAQ1wfNqc
Or this picture:

What do you notice about how people are holding this?  Two ways:

• Legs up for the item to lay against
• Holding it up

Why?  To get the correct viewing angle.  I'm just not seeing my parents wanting to hold it like that, and therefore using this for long periods of time.   Nor do I see them taking to the virtual keyboard, but that's another story.  Add to it, the fact that twice as heavy as the Kindle (which I get tired of holding up in bed sometime - I tend to switch hands every hour or so) and I'm just not seeing this as a strong item for the elderly.  From a ease of use perspective perhaps, but in actually handling the physical item?  Not so much.

It's a good shot, but not there yet.  The case/kickstand needs to come standard for one.

[Mrbloodworth]

Sir bruceing!

[Trippy]

The iPad's too big to be a TNG-era Federation standard-issue PADD (there are bigger versions but you don't see those as often on the shows). The Kindle is too big as well.

Clearly they just need to miniaturize the thing now.  

They do come in lots of sizes though:

Yes I mentioned that but the ones you usually see the Captains holding or on their desks are the small versions.

[Ingmar]

The iPad's too big to be a TNG-era Federation standard-issue PADD (there are bigger versions but you don't see those as often on the shows). The Kindle is too big as well.

It is just the right size for those clipboard looking things they use in Mass Effect though!

[Teleku]

My main hope from all this is that this causes tablets to be such trendy things that other companies can now find a market share.  I look forward to the Android tablet.

[Musashi]

Nobody tell WUA about where this thread is going.

[AutomaticZen]

More on the weight.  The Kindle DX weighs 18.9 ounces, or 1.2 lbs.  The iPad is 1.5 lbs at it's lowest.  

Kindle DX issues?

http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=19708

Frankly, the Kindle DX is too heavy for the casual reader/traveler. The Kindle DX is sleek and thin, but is nearly twice as heavy than the Kindle 2 at 18.9 ounces. The Kindle DX isn’t a burden to lug around, but there are drawbacks to its size.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124467271645603777.html

Unfortunately, I've been testing the Kindle DX and I didn't like it nearly as much as the Kindle 2, which I own and enjoy using daily. While it performs its promised tasks adequately, I found that its size and weight made it awkward and tiring to hold for long periods of reading. It's still fairly thin and light, but it's 85% larger and heavier than the standard Kindle.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31569340/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/

However, she wrote, the DX "is too big to hold comfortably. It's not really all that heavy, but it is top heavy and you feel a pull on your hands. And that pull is really evident if you try to use the keyboard while holding it — you practically have to lay the DX down flat, it becomes so difficult to type."

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/itdojo/?p=1176

Yet, the Kindle DX’s enhancements come with a price. The unit is heavy, cumbersome to carry, and expensive.

At 1.1 pounds, the Kindle DX is nearly twice the weight of the Kindle 2. I could definitely feel the difference when holding the DX for several hours. The Kindle DX is also unlikely to fit inside most jacket pockets or small bags. You’ll need a backpack, laptop bag, or large purse to tote the DX around. A carrying case is therefore a necessity. Unfortunately, Amazon doesn’t include one with the device (as it did with the original Kindle). A leather cover for the DX from Amazon will cost you $49.99.

Unfortunately for travelers, the Kindle DX’s size and weigh make it less than ideal.

You get the idea.  Will these things matter to the elderly?  Who knows.

Sir bruceing!

I assume that's breaking up a quote to talk about certain parts?

[Mrbloodworth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-YAQ1wfNqc

Adding comments has been disabled for this video.