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Venkman
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Reply #210 on: January 28, 2010, 05:27:57 PM

I think that this device is irritating to a lot of people because it mostly does hit a perceived need but falls short in a number of ways. However, nobody has ever made any money at all out of a tablet based PC, so there's good reason for Apple not to repeat everybody's failures in exactly the same ways.

This.

They didn't call it an iTablet for a few reasons, but chief among them is probably the abject failure of that name to take off for the masses. They certainly serve a purpose, particularly in doctor's offices and factory/distribution centers. But they tried to be a general computer plus, not an oversized PDA. So they were compared to the same types of laptops netbooks aren't being favorably compared against either.

Nothing Apple said is surprising. I also don't think they're going to see as much success here as they have with the iPod and iPhone. The device won't be a good browser until it supports even the gimp Flash they've been trying to get Adobe to create. Or unless they do an end run and create browser APIs that will run apps in browser. Regardless, it will launch with hefty limitations.

It also has the problem of an LCD screen as an ebook reader. It's not like Sony/Amazon went e-ink because of cost (it's way expensive tech). They did so because it's the easiest on the eyes. LCD screens are not. Remains to be seen if pixel resolution and proper coloring can get over that. And I suspect it will sooner than e-ink can support high res color (years off iirc). So a few generations of iPads may solve it. But again, launch limitations.

Otherwise, everything else was valid. If you're a 20-something person toting an iPhone between their workstation and their meeting at which they're presenting a Keynote presentation. Otherwise, wait for the second generation of it when it probably gets a camera, SD card and can make phone calls (beyond just Skype).

Flash is still the issue. Adobe has no business reason to create a gimp version and Apple has no reason to allow access to a bunch of free content when people are willing to pay $0.99 ports of miniclip games.
Trippy
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Reply #211 on: January 28, 2010, 05:31:30 PM

What made Apple drop the Java binder?
I don't think they gave an official explanation but Jobs hasn't been keen on Java for a while now.
Trippy
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Reply #212 on: January 28, 2010, 05:48:55 PM

It also has the problem of an LCD screen as an ebook reader. It's not like Sony/Amazon went e-ink because of cost (it's way expensive tech). They did so because it's the easiest on the eyes. LCD screens are not. Remains to be seen if pixel resolution and proper coloring can get over that. And I suspect it will sooner than e-ink can support high res color (years off iirc). So a few generations of iPads may solve it. But again, launch limitations.
It'll be sooner than that. Pixel Qi has started volume production of their screen and there are a bunch of other companies working on the problem.

Engels
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Reply #213 on: January 28, 2010, 05:53:40 PM

I was a bit surprised that the iPad used IPS. Isn't that technology unusually bright compared to other LCDs? I have an IPS monitor, and I have to turn down my brightness to ~25% or I get  a sunburn. Great for video, but I would have to see text on it to believe it will shoulder in on the ebook market.

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

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Trippy
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Reply #214 on: January 28, 2010, 06:06:03 PM

I was a bit surprised that the iPad used IPS. Isn't that technology unusually bright compared to other LCDs?
Not really. They tend to be brighter than MVA panels but TN panels can be as bright or brighter than IPS panels. E.g. my 27" TN HP montior is an eyeball scorching 400 cd/m2 (I have mine turned down to 10/100 at home) while Apple's (roughly) equivalent IPS 27" is 370 cd/m2.
Aez
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Reply #215 on: January 28, 2010, 06:22:42 PM

No pretension of actually being right about this but I'm getting the feeling they jumped the shark with this one.  It's not edgy or innovative like their other products.  It seems to me than a good design and innovate company should recognize this and delay until they get an amazing product.  
Engels
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Reply #216 on: January 28, 2010, 07:21:50 PM

From 2006 MadTV

Apologies if its a repeat post. I have read this thread for the most part :)

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
Righ
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Reply #217 on: January 28, 2010, 08:17:52 PM

No pretension of actually being right about this but I'm getting the feeling they jumped the shark with this one.

They had to, the fact that the device has been announced before they are ready to even take orders proves this. Here's what I think:

Apple drew up this product design just over two years ago. Their flawed vision included 3G cellular data capability.

Apple almost locked everybody out of the market by buying up nearly all the world's manufacturing of screens of this size. Having shown their hand in this way, all Apple's competitors decided that if Apple were in for this much risk, Jobs must be about to redefine a previously unprofitable market and they had better produce their own mini-tablet PCs.

In the meantime, 3G became an albatross - telecoms licensing happens at a glacial pace, doubly so with Apple's preferred US provider. By the time Apple got provisional device certification, Apple's competitors were announcing products and there was plenty of screen manufacturing capacity. However, there's got to be something else that really forced such a rushed launch - I'll bet that their technology partners were signed up to Apple exclusivity deals that seemed reasonable when Apple first signed them. After months of device certification, its quite possible that various Asian technology partners are soon allowed to sell the same hardware in (better) devices.

Complete speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if this has happened. Watch for a similar device to be announced on a non-AT&T US network in a few weeks.  why so serious?

I still think the 3G is stupid mistake. Better to get licensing for an iPhone to act as a modem to the iPad and expect everybody to carry both. The iPhone stays in your pocket while you go online on the iPad via a wifi connection to the iPhone. Nobody wants a separate bill for each device, and they're going to be carrying their phone anywhere that they would want to use 3G on an iPad/slate/tablet.

The camera adds a thousand barrels. - Steven Colbert
schild
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Reply #218 on: January 28, 2010, 08:59:04 PM

The idea of plugging your Ipad Nano into your Ipad is beyond fucking strange.

On that note, web browsing on the Nexus One over 3G makes the Wifi on a 2nd Gen iPod Touch look like decade old tech. Fucking Nexus One is FAST.
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Reply #219 on: January 28, 2010, 09:27:25 PM

A lot of comments here sound eerily similar to those blasting the mouse (yeah, I am that old :() way back…

Touch is the new mouse…

Another developer perspective

Quote
Most of the iPad reactions I've read have been negative, but I have been completely satisfied with what Apple announced. iPad is exactly the product I've been wishing for ever since I wrapped my mind around the iPhone and its constraints. While the rumor mill was churning with all kinds of crazy possibilities for the Apple tablet, I mostly rolled my eyes, because I felt strongly that all Apple needed to do to revolutionize computing was simply to make an iPhone with a large screen. Anyone who feels underwhelmed by that doesn't understand how much of the iPhone OS's potential is still untapped.

I spent a year and a half attempting to reduce a massive, complex social networking website into a handheld, touch-screen form factor. My goal was initially just to make a mobile companion for the facebook.com mothership, but once I got comfortable with the platform I became convinced it was possible to create a version of Facebook that was actually better than the website! Of all the platforms I've developed on in my career, from the desktop to the web, iPhone OS gave me the greatest sense of empowerment, and had the highest ceiling for raising the art of UI design. Except there was one thing keeping me from reaching that ceiling: the screen was too small.

At some point I came to the conclusion that Facebook on iPhone OS could not truly exceed the website until I could adapt it to a screen size closer to a laptop. It needed to support more than one column of information at a time. I couldn't fit enough tools on the screen to support any kind of advanced creative work. Photos were too small to show off to my far-sighted parents. The web required too much panning and zooming to enjoy reading. Beyond just Facebook, most of the apps I used most on my iPhone also suffered from these limitations, like Google Reader, Instapaper, and all image, video, and text editing tools. The bottom line is, many apps which were cute toys on iPhone can become full-featured power tools on the iPad, making you forget about their desktop/laptop predecessors. We just have to invent them.

"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
Quinton
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Reply #220 on: January 28, 2010, 09:35:00 PM

The idea of plugging your Ipad Nano into your Ipad is beyond fucking strange.

No, no he meant plugging your Ipad into your Ipad Nano!

Quote
On that note, web browsing on the Nexus One over 3G makes the Wifi on a 2nd Gen iPod Touch look like decade old tech. Fucking Nexus One is FAST.

If Apple drops their A4 SoC into their nextgen ipod/iphone (would seem logical), they should be able to pull off similar performance (same clock rate ARM V7 architecture, A9 class CPU).
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Reply #221 on: January 28, 2010, 09:40:37 PM

Quote
If Apple drops their A4 SoC into their nextgen ipod/iphone (would seem logical), they should be able to pull off similar performance (same clock rate ARM V7 architecture, A9 class CPU).

So, in a year since they just blew their wad until, at minimum, September - which is a laptop event typically.

Good for them, I guess. When the Nexus Two or whatever drops and has 4G, I suppose we'll just repeat this conversation. Heh.
Trippy
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Reply #222 on: January 28, 2010, 09:44:27 PM

Summer is the traditional time period for iPhone stuff.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #223 on: January 28, 2010, 09:45:56 PM

I'm an Apple hater, and not apologetic about it.  I've hated everything Apple has put out since the Lisa.  I think Jobs is the Devil.  iPod's are over-priced pieces of crap designed to die (built-in Li-Ion batteries that will expire in no more than 2 years under the *best* circumstances).  The iPod Touch is *barely* justifiable, in that there aren't a lot of things that size that can do real web-surfing (excepting Flash, which is a big fucking hole).  Mac's are for people who need training wheels for their computers.

But *setting that aside*, I can't see the point in this thing.  It's too big to carry in a pocket (even a large coat pocket, which at least the Kindle can manage), too expensive to risk dropping (and too big to hold securely in one hand), can't be mated with a real keyboard, doesn't do Flash, and Mark Cuban loves it (Mark Cuban loves anything that makes metered TV easier to achieve, and gets *everything* related to it wrong, he thinks SlingBox is wonderful but BitTorrent breaks the internet).

One of AutomaticZen's quotes got the core of it: I can't leave my phone behind, or my laptop.  I can't stick it in a pocket, or use it one-handed, or....  It's not just that it doesn't do anything something else doesn't do better, it's that it does *nothing* well enough to be worth the investment.  At least iPod's are decent media players (while they last), and the iPhone is a decent smartphone (even if the AppStore sucks balls).  This thing just sucks.

--Dave
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 09:54:44 PM by MahrinSkel »

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Trippy
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Reply #224 on: January 28, 2010, 09:50:29 PM

can't be mated with a real keyboard
Yes it can (will be able to). Apple already announced their mechanical keyboard dock for the iPad and the 30-pin connector supports USB so in theory any USB keyboard should work with it though you might need an adapter/special cable to get it to work.
AutomaticZen
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Reply #225 on: January 28, 2010, 10:07:00 PM

Yeah.  And you can pair a bluetooth keyboard.

 
Quote
At least iPod's are decent media players (while they last),

My girlfriend has gone through three different iPods that broke.  Her Color died.  A Video (Now the classic) that died.  They sent her a refurb that died as well.  Her Touch is still alive.  (technically it's my Touch, but she uses it)
Quinton
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Reply #226 on: January 28, 2010, 10:08:57 PM

Summer is the traditional time period for iPhone stuff.

Will be interesting to see if they finally do a significant hardware refresh.  If they want a higher resolution display and minimal suckitude for existing apps that probably means 640x960 so they can just pixel double instead of doing some ugly stretching.  I was honestly a bit skeptical about going to WVGA (800x480/854x480) for NexusOne/Droid, but for web browsing those extra pixels are nice.  Having to move around 2.5x the pixels compared to HVGA ended up being worth it.

The fact that the tablet feels like there's been little or no OS changes done makes me think maybe we are in for an iphone OS refresh too.  Will be fun to see.

EDIT: Grr, fix my numbers.  Math is hard!
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 11:55:23 PM by Quinton »
schild
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Reply #227 on: January 28, 2010, 10:14:19 PM

Version Up! Now in iPhone OS, Select All and Scroll Lock!

:shrug: Their iphone updates me me lol.
Trippy
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Reply #228 on: January 28, 2010, 10:52:58 PM

Summer is the traditional time period for iPhone stuff.
Will be interesting to see if they finally do a significant hardware refresh.  If they want a higher resolution display and minimal suckitude for existing apps that probably means 480x960 so they can just pixel double instead of doing some ugly stretching.  I was honestly a bit skeptical about going to WVGA (800x480/854x480) for NexusOne/Droid, but for web browsing those extra pixels are nice.  Having to move around 2.5x the pixels compared to HVGA ended up being worth it.
iPhone is 480 x 320 so they would have to go to 960 x 640 if they were going to pixel double, which is close to the 1024 x 768 of the iPad which is why they can do the pixel-doubling on the iPad for iPhone apps.

Quote
The fact that the tablet feels like there's been little or no OS changes done makes me think maybe we are in for an iphone OS refresh too.  Will be fun to see.
The thing about the OS, though is that it's pretty capable even in its current form. Watching the demo of the iWork and iPhoto iPad apps makes it look they are running on a desktop OS that's optimized for a touch interface rather than apps that are running on a mobile OS. Yes there's stuff that's missing that it's going to be needed once there's more competition but I don't see Apple making any radical changes to it in the near term.

Edit: be needed
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 12:43:06 AM by Trippy »
Quinton
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Reply #229 on: January 28, 2010, 11:57:53 PM

Well it is the same OS, underneath.  The mach kernel will never die.  I meant more that the interface/framework side hasn't really had much of a refresh since launch, and more surprisingly they didn't change much for the iPad -- most of what they demoed was very iphone-ish but bigger, or osx-ish with more touchable UI (similar to the iphone feel). 
Trippy
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Reply #230 on: January 29, 2010, 12:41:47 AM

Well it is the same OS, underneath.  The mach kernel will never die.  I meant more that the interface/framework side hasn't really had much of a refresh since launch
They added cut and paste  awesome, for real

Quote
, and more surprisingly they didn't change much for the iPad -- most of what they demoed was very iphone-ish but bigger, or osx-ish with more touchable UI (similar to the iphone feel). 
In the demo they did show some new stuff like "partial pinch open" (to peek at a iPhoto stack) and the "group selection" interface (in Keynote) but no they did not demonstrate a "revolutionary" tablet UI that some people were expecting.
Sairon
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Reply #231 on: January 29, 2010, 06:02:52 AM

I've been of the opinion that most mac products as of late are for the mentally and mathematically challenged, the margins apple most likely makes on a lot of their products would be enough to make me feel like a rape victim if I were to shell out for them. I think this device is the ultimate test, we take a really shitty laptop, cut off the keyboard and add a touch screen and see if people are to stupid to notice. Granted I do think there's a valid reason to get a device with this setup, but it's not anywhere near the size where most people should give a shit. Then there's the Archos 9 which is a better device in pretty much every regard, which made about as much of a buzz as the iPad would have done if it was made by any other company than apple.

( Oh, and I raise schilds Nexus One surfing experience with my N900 surfing experience  awesome, for real )
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 06:54:51 AM by Sairon »
AutomaticZen
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Reply #232 on: January 29, 2010, 06:40:44 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjBcv9iZinY

This is vaguely closer to what I feel the iPad should've been, but I can't say I expect much of Dell.

Last week:

UPS is telling me that my Nook will arrive on the 25th, just two days before (most people believe) Apple is set to announce their thing, which is awesome. This is more or less how it always happens when I decide to make my move on a piece of technology. I'll try to find something ironic to read on it before it catches on fire, burning itself out of existence.
It's got to be so annoying to compete with Apple, at anything really, because it's not like they're doing something fucking crazy. Everybody's had these ideas before. The difference, and this is grim if you are a competitor, but the difference is that everyone else spends a lot of time (and often, money) determining why those things aren't possible. And then it comes out, for real, only you didn't make it.  Some other guys did.  And when you come out with what is (on paper) a better version of the same thing, maybe even multiple times over, it's too late.  You made a "product" to compete with their "product," tastefully arranging your regiment, only to discover that they hadn't made a product at all - they made a narrative.  A statement about how technology should interface with a life.     
I'm not saying this to be mean, or get my kicks, or to engage in psychic vampirism.  Competing with these fucking people must be a genuinely harrowing state of affairs.


This Week:

That iPad presentation had to be the worst thing I've even seen on on the Apple stage. There is a part where they - I am not making a joke - there is a part where they try to make creating spreadsheets seem awesome. Jilted may be the word. Of course, we're at the second wave of commentary now, the reflexive defense phase, but I've seen this practiced arc too many times to feel its pull. Apple didn't make a case for the device.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 06:45:23 AM by AutomaticZen »
schild
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Reply #233 on: January 29, 2010, 06:43:38 AM

Quote
( Oh, and I raise schilds Nexus One surfing experience with my N900 surfing experience  awesome, for real )

No doubt, no doubt. But the n900 is huge in comparison, so it better be fast. What blows me away with the Nexus is how thin it is and it's still pumping out all this performance.
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #234 on: January 29, 2010, 06:46:57 AM

Why are you even comparing this to consoles anyway?

Presumably because consoles are well-known existing examples of computers which have been crippled by walled garden development environments which require developers to get the blessing of the application vendor.

Gosh, thats a very negative way of putting it. Considering the fact that consoles have a set hardware, is a plus to making software on them.

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
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Reply #235 on: January 29, 2010, 06:49:00 AM

Why are you even comparing this to consoles anyway?

Presumably because consoles are well-known existing examples of computers which have been crippled by walled garden development environments which require developers to get the blessing of the application vendor.

Gosh, thats a very negative way of putting it. Considering the fact that consoles have a set hardware, is a plus to making software on them.

No doubt, especially since consoles aren't pitched to a live audience as an attractive laptop with down syndrome.
Sairon
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Reply #236 on: January 29, 2010, 06:50:53 AM

Quote
( Oh, and I raise schilds Nexus One surfing experience with my N900 surfing experience  awesome, for real )

No doubt, no doubt. But the n900 is huge in comparison, so it better be fast. What blows me away with the Nexus is how thin it is and it's still pumping out all this performance.

Yeah, the Nexus looks awesome, I was choosing between it and the N900. I really wanted the physical keyboard however so in the end I got the N900 even though it's a bit clunky.
Murgos
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Reply #237 on: January 29, 2010, 07:28:15 AM

I'm curious as to who thought a 10" screen would ever be a pocket portable item and why anyone anywhere is listening to that complaint?  Anyone who brings that up should be donkey punched.

Is the iPad something that I am creaming my pants for?  No, but neither was the iPod or iPhone when they were first released.  Since I don't actually see the thing being used outside of your home or office network, at least in current incarnation, I also don't get the 3G gruff.

I do see it being used sitting on the couch or lying in bed reading, adjusting the stereo or controlling the TV or web surfing, and it seems like it will be the ideal gadget for that but otherwise?  Not really.

iPad + media server + 802.11n home network + hundreds of thousands of books?  Seems fun.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #238 on: January 29, 2010, 07:56:54 AM

I like it when the main argument in a discussion is that people who like different things are basically retarded. Way to go Sairon. Hopefully you can provide some thoughts next time.

Apple has roughly a 30% margin on all hardware, which is no news for anybody who knows how to read SEC reports. Something any PC maker would kill for. This might seem high but the margins for home appliances or cars are higher and I have never heard anybody tell somebody else that he's stupid or mathematically challenged for buying a washing machine.

The real question is: Why are so many people actually buying from Apple although the price of their merchandise is higher than that of competing products? If you like you can boil it down to "people are stupid" but that would be missing the point entirely.

The iPhone has been a runaway success because Apple delivered on promises other mobile phone companies were making for nearly a decade but couldn't keep. Just like the iPod has been a runaway success because it delivered on the promises other musik player companies made but couldn't keep.

A sound like a rabid fanboy now but I'd like to elaborate a little bit.

For a decade now Nokia, Motorola and other companies have promised us that we could use our phones for more than just making calls and texting.
- music
- video
- internet
- third party applications
- games

I burned through a lot of different phones from different manufacturers over the years but every time I tried to use those phones for more than just making calls it has been a horrible experience.

Browsers that couldn't render most web pages and were slow as molasses.
Musik player applications that didn't support ID3-Tags, playlists or only played proprietary formats like WMA.
Video players that didn't support even the most common codecs and couldn't even play those videos at a decent frame rate
Text input with standard phone keypads or tiny virtual keyboards operated by a stylus
Broken sync software so that one isn't even able to get all of those musik and video files on that thing.
A totally fragmented hardware and software platform so that applications only ran on some devices but not on others.
Out of memory errors, background apps that didn't close and sucked your battery dry, browsing through ten different subdirectories just to do basic things.

Even worse because of all those broken features even the basic features of a mobile phone (making calls, adress book, texting) became more and more unusable.

People fell in love with the early Nokia phones because they were easy to understand and easy to use and provided nothing more than what people actually needed, namely making calls, managing your contacts and texting. Nowadays you won't enjoy doing any of those things when you use a Nokia phone and it doesn't anything of its new features really well.

The iPhone was the first phone that did everything it offered well enough so that people actually enjoyed doing those things. For me it has replaced my phone, my iPod, my portable video player, my DS or PSPgo and my laptop for browsing the web, email and social media.

I would have been able to do any of those things on other phones as well but never did because the experience was always very frustrating. I mean why should I use the horrible music player application of my phone when I own an iPod? Why should I use a mobile browser that only renders 10% of all the web pages correctly when I own a laptop? etc. pp.

iPhone users account for most of the web traffic in mobile networks because it's easy to browse the web on that platform. People have downloaded over 3 billion apps from the App store because it's easy to do and for many people that single device has replaced their phone, mobile music and video player, game console or even laptop. Because that phone replaces all of those devices and it does this well enough.

This especially appeals to non-nerds. Most people I know and who don't work in IT hate computers and electronic gadgets. they don't care about the possibilities that devices offer because they are frustrated about how complicated those things are. Most people use them in spite of those frustrations because they have to or the benefit of owning one and being frustrated is still bigger than not owning one.

That's what most of the other companies haven't understood even until today. Features don't count if your customers hate using those features. That's why people choose the iPhone over 'superior' devices even if they are cheaper, that's why the biggest sellers in the mobile phone world are still devices that can only make calls and support texting, that's why the iPod is a success although there are better and cheaper alternatives.

A stupid car analogy: Enthusiast or expert drivers choose stick shift, because they want the control and they can get better performance that way. Still the majority of people buy cars with an automatic gear box for ease of use and because it's good enough.

On the other hand all of the above is exactly why I don't think the iPad will be a success.

The iPhone replaced a lot of different devices and it did it well. You could justify the price tag if you no longer needed your Phone, iPod, surf station and mobile game console.

The iPad doesn't replace anything, you'll still use a phone and you already own a pc. The iPad won't even be of much use without a pc. So you can do a little bit more with it that you could with the iPhone (or at least a little bit more comfortably) but less than the pc you already own and you can't even replace your pc because you need it to get all of your music and video on it.

Why should I buy one for my grandma? Without a pc she can't get anything on that device and if she owns and knows how to use a pc she wouldn't have any use for an iPad. Why should I bring my iPad on the road when I already own an iPhone, which does on the road stuff nearly as well when the iPad does less than a netbook?

If you buy an iPad you'll still use a pc and a phone because it can replace neither completely. The same dilemma that netbooks suffer from. The ability to have the internet in your hands just in case you want to do a little bit more than with your phone but still a little bit less than with your pc is something people won't be shelling out 800 dollars for.
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Reply #239 on: January 29, 2010, 08:04:59 AM

Yes it can (will be able to). Apple already announced their mechanical keyboard dock for the iPad and the 30-pin connector supports USB so in theory any USB keyboard should work with it though you might need an adapter/special cable to get it to work.
So... if I need to carry an iPad around and a keyboard... wouldn't I be better off with a netbook?

My boss just got this cute little Dell for $270.  I can see lots of uses for it.  I can't see any for this thing.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
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Reply #240 on: January 29, 2010, 08:18:43 AM

For $799 you can get an iPad with a big hard drive or you can get the Alienware M11x.

Quote
Apple has roughly a 30% margin on all hardware, which is no news for anybody who knows how to read SEC reports. Something any PC maker would kill for. This might seem high but the margins for home appliances or cars are higher and I have never heard anybody tell somebody else that he's stupid or mathematically challenged for buying a washing machine.

Don't rag on someone and then make the most insipid analogy in the thread. When someone starts charging 30-70% less for something better than a washing machine (a Windows 7 PC), we can talk about people being stupid and mathematically challenged for buying a regular old washing machine.
Miguel
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कुशल


Reply #241 on: January 29, 2010, 08:26:40 AM

Everyone has entirely missed the point of this (and every other Apple product for that matter).  All of these things have one purpose and one purpose only:  to get as many people in front of the online stores for as much time as possible.

Jobs said it himself:  over 120 million credit cards are registered with iTunes, this new iPad will do a great deal to increase those numbers.  They are selling a relatively high margin product to get you in front of their obscenely high margin product, which is the online stores, where they can enjoy ~80-90% profit margin all for the cost of running some servers and hosting a web site.

A camera?  Nope, not needed to get you on iTunes.  Multitasking?  Nope, buying the background doesn't make sense.  You can tell that the thought process was "What if these things are taken out of the home?  How will people but stuff online?  Let's add 3G support too!"  Flash?  Nope...might allow people to buy stuff other than what's offered on the online stores.

If you think about the products as merely portals to the high margin online stores, then everything falls into place and makes sense.  These are highly stylized versions of what is essentially a drive through window at Taco Bell.  You have to stop thinking like a tech person, and start thinking about whether you want the Burrito Supreme or a Chalupa....just point and buy.

“We have competent people thinking about this stuff. We’re not just making shit up.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson
Phire
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Reply #242 on: January 29, 2010, 08:27:56 AM

Sairon
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Reply #243 on: January 29, 2010, 08:32:34 AM

Lots of stuff

iPhone 3GS goes for about 8 500 SEK unlocked, the N900 which has both more and better hardware across the entire board goes for about 5 000 SEK, although it uses a resistive screen. The Nexus One which has significantly better hardware across pretty much the entire spectrum than the 3GS goes for 7 300 SEK. The mathematically challenged comment was made mostly in regards to how people usually pick up an iPhone "But it's only $50 a month".

The E71 did most of what you mentioned ( if not all ) around the same time as the iPhone, and is universally very well received amongst its owners. Interesting that you mention the web, as the iPhone really isn't that great on it, which is the reason for why there's a shitload of apps to make up for it ( in fact, the company right next to mine is doing just that, creating apps for the iPhone which makes their web content usable on the iPhone ).

I do however like how the iPhone shaked things up, and it certainly changed the direction on where smart phones are heading nowadays. Point is however, things have changed since 2007, and the competition has in my opinion surpassed the iPhone on most of its strengths. But what difference does it really make, people don't want the best phone or the best value, they want an iPhone. It seems to be the same with the iPad, they don't want the best tablet, they want an iPad. People are already talking about how it will revolutionize how we use computers, even though there's been comparable devices around for a long time, just not created by Apple.
AutomaticZen
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Reply #244 on: January 29, 2010, 08:47:12 AM

This:

Got me here:

Quote
CES 2010 is likely to see a fair few internet tablets being announced, but SlashGear has heard about one particular model that has more than a little promise. Notion Ink’s as-yet unnamed Android “smartpad” is based on an unnanounced NVIDIA Tegra T20 chipset supporting 1080p Full HD video playback, has integrated WiFi, Bluetooth and UMTS/HSDPA, and – perhaps most interestingly – is the first confirmed device to use the Pixel Qi transflective display. Notion Ink are saving the live hardware shots for CES – hence the renders – but they did send us some photos of the 10.1-inch 1024 x 600 Pixel Qi panel in action, which you can see after the cut along with the full specifications.

The Notion Ink smartpad measures 6.3 x 9.8 x 0.6 inches and weighs 1.7lbs; as well as the triband (850/1900/2100) UMTS/HSDPA, WiFi b/g and Bluetooth 2.1+EDR it also squeezes in A-GPS, a digital compass, accelerometer and proximity, ambient light and water sensors. Connectivity includes USB, HDMI, a 3.5mm headphone jack and a microphone input, and there’s also a 3-megapixel autofocus camera with video recording support. Onboard storage is either 16GB or 32GB of SSD, and there’s an SD slot for augmenting that.

Initially – at least as it’s to be shown at CES – the smartpad will use the regular Android UI, with full gesture support. Navigation is either via the touchscreen or a trackpad, and Notion Ink have added a matte-finish anti-glare, oleophobic and scratch-resistant coating to the Pixel Qi display. Of course, the panel itself can be viewed indoors as a regular LCD, or outdoors in either transflective mode with reduced color vibrancy or fully reflective 64-level grayscale mode. Notion Ink say they’ve been developing a number of applications that should be added sometime after CES, including Office-style software, Flash-based titles and some graphics apps that include physics-based functionality. Ebook reading is also another possibility, and the company are in talks with several (unnamed) content providers.

Perhaps most importantly for a web-browsing tablet, battery life estimates are impressive. Notion Ink reckon the smartpad will be good for up to 48hrs standby on its integrated rechargeable Li-Ion battery, 8hrs of HD video playback and 16hrs of internet surfing over WiFi. It seems it’s the eight-core Tegra T20 chipset that’s primarily responsible for such longevity, though Notion Ink can’t share any more details on that SoC itself. Meanwhile media playback isn’t sacrificed, and Notion Ink have apparently played three 1080p HD videos simultaneously with only a small loss in frames. The company is still working on optimizing the hardware, so we might see even greater runtimes and performance by the time the smartpad launches.

That's what I wanted from Apple.  Something that makes my tech boner hard.
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