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Author Topic: The 'Build Me A PC' Thread  (Read 853726 times)
sinij
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Reply #875 on: October 04, 2011, 04:02:29 PM

Question for the people in the know. My current mobo is AM3, there is (beta) firmware that suppose to get it to AM3+. I plan to upgrade CPU to AM3+, but read that AM3 mobos getting patched to AM3+ are not as good as native AM3+. Any idea if this is BS, and if it isn't how much of a performance loss would I suffer?

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Chimpy
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Reply #876 on: October 05, 2011, 06:42:21 PM

There is an AM3+ socket?

I don't see any processors for sale yet that are above AM3. Though there is a new FM1 socket for the Llano chips (but those are not high end).


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MisterNoisy
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Reply #877 on: October 05, 2011, 08:16:52 PM

There is an AM3+ socket?

I don't see any processors for sale yet that are above AM3. Though there is a new FM1 socket for the Llano chips (but those are not high end).

It's for the oft-delayed Bulldozer/Zambezi chips, currently slated for launch sometime in Q4.  To be honest, my expectations from the new architecture are pretty low, though I'd like a competitive AMD - it's just been so long since they were actually really relevant to 'power users' at anything but the low/value end.

Releasing stuff like this doesn't help their case at all - that 980x they're comparing the new CPU to is comparable in almost every way to the same ~$300 2600K you've been able to buy for some time, and Intel is sitting on both Ivy Bridge and Sandy Bridge-E as counters to anything AMD releases.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 08:27:38 PM by MisterNoisy »

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HaemishM
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Reply #878 on: October 06, 2011, 07:34:27 AM

So is the consensus that buying an AMD CPU is a bad idea even though you'll probably pay like $100-$200 less for the computer over a comparable Intel version?

MisterNoisy
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Reply #879 on: October 06, 2011, 07:52:30 AM

So is the consensus that buying an AMD CPU is a bad idea even though you'll probably pay like $100-$200 less for the computer over a comparable Intel version?

I don't know about that - at the lower end of the spectrum, they make more sense.  I just don't think that their newer stuff has done a good job at all of keeping pace with Intel when we're talking about high end performance, and I don't know if Bulldozer/Zambezi is going to change that.

Fusion is pretty slick for mobile, though.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 08:03:00 AM by MisterNoisy »

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Engels
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Reply #880 on: October 06, 2011, 10:14:27 AM

Hamish, as MisterNoisy alludes to, the high end performance CPU of AMD is probably not going to be competitively priced. That's half the reason Intel has been kicking AMD's ass. Intel packs far more power per dollar than previous AMD processors. The chart above is comparing the flagship CPU of AMDs with the first of the i7s. That does NOT bode well for AMD at all.

I was unable to find much information on sinji's original question as to whether the older motheboards with a socket CMOS patch to accommodate AM3+ CPUs are going to perform as well as newer AM3+ ready boards.

If Intel is anything to go by, when motherboards came with the ability to upgrade to newer ram, say, motherboards with both DDR2 and DDR3 sockets, results have been very mixed. Some people reported no problems, others had a major headache and had to go back.

Personally, if you're going to use after market cooling that is going to require removing the motherboard from the case anyway to install the fan, I'd buy a new motherboard for the CPU as well. This way you also get the benefits of SATA3 and USB3. Chances are the PCI lanes will be greater in the new motherboards as well, giving your video card better performance. This is, however, speculative.

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

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sinij
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Reply #881 on: October 06, 2011, 02:06:44 PM

So is the consensus that buying an AMD CPU is a bad idea even though you'll probably pay like $100-$200 less for the computer over a comparable Intel version?

Depends what you want out of your PC. Intel for best-in-class performance with zero upgradability, AMD for value and very high chance to have an ability to upgrade to new CPU when it comes out. I have (SO desktop) M3A mobo that I upgraded CPU 3 times now, every time for about ~$100, it doesn't get any more cost-effective than that.

Personally, if you're going to use after market cooling that is going to require removing the motherboard from the case anyway to install the fan, I'd buy a new motherboard for the CPU as well. This way you also get the benefits of SATA3 and USB3. Chances are the PCI lanes will be greater in the new motherboards as well, giving your video card better performance. This is, however, speculative.

My mobo is M4A89TD PRO/USB3, it already has SATA3 and USB3. Question is if I am going to see improvement moving from Phenom II 1090T to bulldozer and if its worth the price. I am not planning to upgrade PC for another year, this is more of a mid-cycle upgrade, maybe $250 if I get decent performance gain out of it.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 02:19:22 PM by sinij »

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fuser
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Reply #882 on: October 08, 2011, 09:22:44 AM

So is the consensus that buying an AMD CPU is a bad idea even though you'll probably pay like $100-$200 less for the computer over a comparable Intel version?

Depends what you want out of your PC. Intel for best-in-class performance with zero upgradability,

You *should* be able to carry forward a LGA 1155 board to ivy bridge and that will give you another 2+years of life. But your pretty much SOL with 1366/1156.

I just finished up replacing my HTPC with a new Intel G620T and an Intel DH67CF motherboard. The processor was $70 and the motherboard $120 which is quite crazy. Honestly I went with an expensive motherboard to have intel nic, uefi, and low power consumption. You can find a decent board in the $90-100 range(see asus).

If I built a Llano an A6-3500 is $90 and A75 board is $75, a cost savings of $25 which would come down to a $5 savings for a non Intel board.

I'm shocked at how good the CPU is, it's so fast I don't need a dedicated GPU for any playback yet. Alas the Llano GPU hands down stronger but Ivy bridge is reported to close the gap.
MisterNoisy
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Reply #883 on: October 12, 2011, 06:22:04 AM

My mobo is M4A89TD PRO/USB3, it already has SATA3 and USB3. Question is if I am going to see improvement moving from Phenom II 1090T to bulldozer and if its worth the price. I am not planning to upgrade PC for another year, this is more of a mid-cycle upgrade, maybe $250 if I get decent performance gain out of it.

Bulldozer benchmarks are out and based on them, I'd wait.

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01101010
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Reply #884 on: October 12, 2011, 06:32:18 AM

My mobo is M4A89TD PRO/USB3, it already has SATA3 and USB3. Question is if I am going to see improvement moving from Phenom II 1090T to bulldozer and if its worth the price. I am not planning to upgrade PC for another year, this is more of a mid-cycle upgrade, maybe $250 if I get decent performance gain out of it.

Bulldozer benchmarks are out and based on them, I'd wait.

Any good links with that? I am curious and have a moron friend who has his cheerleading skirt on for this chip and routinely calls me an Intel fanboi.

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Sheepherder
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Reply #885 on: October 12, 2011, 06:47:58 AM

The fuck?

The guy know the P4 / Athlon 64 shit is old hat, right?
MisterNoisy
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Reply #886 on: October 12, 2011, 07:17:46 AM

Any good links with that? I am curious and have a moron friend who has his cheerleading skirt on for this chip and routinely calls me an Intel fanboi.

HardOCP
Anand
Guru3D
Tom's
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If you use crazily multithreaded applications, there's something there.  For everyone else, it's at best a wash with the year-old 2500K/2600K (and rarely even that).
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 07:47:15 AM by MisterNoisy »

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sinij
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Reply #887 on: October 12, 2011, 08:33:48 AM

My mobo is M4A89TD PRO/USB3, it already has SATA3 and USB3. Question is if I am going to see improvement moving from Phenom II 1090T to bulldozer and if its worth the price. I am not planning to upgrade PC for another year, this is more of a mid-cycle upgrade, maybe $250 if I get decent performance gain out of it.

Bulldozer benchmarks are out and based on them, I'd wait.

Sadly, I agree. I wouldn't get noticeable upgrade.  I don't understand why they bother with core parking (supported only in Windows 8!) while neglecting base, 2-core performance that is used in 75%+ of all applications.

Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
fuser
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Reply #888 on: October 12, 2011, 09:01:57 AM

For everyone else, it's at best a wash with the year-old 2500K/2600K (and rarely even that).

Considering its power consumption and heat is off the scale. It's over 229w full load
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Reply #889 on: October 12, 2011, 09:10:01 AM

That's for a full system. It still seems off, though. The max power usage is spec'd at 125 W so it's unclear why the Bulldozer system is drawing so much more power compared to the Intel systems.
luckton
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Reply #890 on: October 12, 2011, 09:38:19 AM

Query: I have the following right now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215

I'm considering getting the following if/once the price drops more: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115213

Worthy upgrade, or save up for a new mobo/CPU combo of a more current gen?

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

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Reply #891 on: October 12, 2011, 09:54:47 AM

Not worth it unless you desperately need HT.
luckton
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Reply #892 on: October 12, 2011, 10:09:42 AM

Not worth it unless you desperately need HT.


I figured as much...so perhaps a jump from 4 to 8+ gigs of memory then?

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Reply #893 on: October 12, 2011, 10:19:36 AM

Are you swapping now?
luckton
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Reply #894 on: October 12, 2011, 10:26:46 AM

Are you swapping now?


I'm wanting to upgrade in some fashion.  Trying to get most bang for buck.

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Reply #895 on: October 12, 2011, 10:31:07 AM

SSD?

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
luckton
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Reply #896 on: October 12, 2011, 10:37:19 AM

SSD?

I've got a 300GB WD VelociRaptor right now, with a 1TB documents and stuff drive on the side.  I've always pondered the jump to SSD, but then I always choke when I think about the reliability and longevity.  I understand Sandforce-based SSDs are decent...any other recommendations?

Edit: Grammar and proper naming...

Edit 2: Checked prices...the Vertex 2 60GB now under $100?  Hmm...
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 10:54:03 AM by luckton »

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

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Trippy
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Reply #897 on: October 12, 2011, 11:05:32 AM

Are you swapping now?
I'm wanting to upgrade in some fashion.  Trying to get most bang for buck.
What's your GPU?
luckton
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Reply #898 on: October 12, 2011, 11:07:43 AM

A Radeon HD 6850

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

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Sky
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Reply #899 on: October 12, 2011, 12:49:16 PM

Ok, we're a couple weeks out from The Big Scary News, however, thanks to good, knowledge-living voters I should still have a job despite our budget getting cut by 9/13ths. (Seriously, holy shit!)

So I'm still considering my upgrade I talked about earlier in the summer. Since it doesn't look like there are any big announcements that would affect me (right? I'm not on top of the hardware world these days), here's the current scenario. Probably pull the trigger at the end of the month. Oddly, one of the big games I wanted to upgrade for runs great on my current creaker of a system...

Current:
C2D e6600 @ 4GHz
4GB DDR2 800
GTX 460 1GB
ASUS P5WDH-Deluxe
X-Fi

Keeping the case/psu/sound/hdd:
i5 2500K
8GB DDR3 12800
ASUS P8P67 PRO
CM Hyper212
4 new case fans

I decided to downgrade it from the ASUS P8Z68 and from Corsair to G.Skill to save enough to SLI the GTX 460 on the new mobo. Also need a wireless NIC, since my current one is on the mobo, looking at this one, because I don't have a dual band router. Also looking at a cooling cage for the optical bay to pull across the top of the case, pushed out behind the cpu. For $25, I think it would be worth the increased airflow. Also, 8GB or 16GB RAM? 16GB wouldn't bust the budget with RAM prices where they are now.

Total bacon is $765

Concerns are mostly that the X-Fi fits with the added GPU and that my current aftermarket cooler will allow a second gpu, since it's giant. I would probably add an aftermarket cooler to the second gpu as well, so a few more bucks and really threatening that lonely PCI slot. Even if the second gpu fit, having the fans from the first gpu almost literally on top of the second board worries me. Since I've actually never run SLI before, do both cards have to be identical? Are there still issues with games not using/being buggy with SLI? A single 570 would fry the bacon to $935, a 580 would blacken the bacon at $1265; not sure a single 560 would be worth the upgrade vs the horsepower of 460SLI.
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Reply #900 on: October 12, 2011, 01:20:55 PM

A Radeon HD 6850
A 6950 might be a good upgrade but it depends a lot on the game and whether or you get CPU-limited:

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=670789
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Reply #901 on: October 12, 2011, 01:25:12 PM

Sky, that's a USB 3.0 motherboard, but does your old case support it? If not you're sort of wasting that capability.

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luckton
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Reply #902 on: October 12, 2011, 01:26:41 PM

A Radeon HD 6850
A 6950 might be a good upgrade but it depends a lot on the game and whether or you get CPU-limited:

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=670789


I have a personal policy on video card upgrades: every other generation.  When the 8xxx series is out, I'll be there  awesome, for real

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Sky
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Reply #903 on: October 12, 2011, 01:49:37 PM

Sky, that's a USB 3.0 motherboard, but does your old case support it? If not you're sort of wasting that capability.
Aren't the connectors the same? Cat busted my front two case connectors ages ago, anyway. And really, it's not like I have any USB 3 devices...
MisterNoisy
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Reply #904 on: October 12, 2011, 01:50:23 PM


(snip)

Concerns are mostly that the X-Fi fits with the added GPU and that my current aftermarket cooler will allow a second gpu, since it's giant. I would probably add an aftermarket cooler to the second gpu as well, so a few more bucks and really threatening that lonely PCI slot. Even if the second gpu fit, having the fans from the first gpu almost literally on top of the second board worries me. Since I've actually never run SLI before, do both cards have to be identical? Are there still issues with games not using/being buggy with SLI? A single 570 would fry the bacon to $935, a 580 would blacken the bacon at $1265; not sure a single 560 would be worth the upgrade vs the horsepower of 460SLI.

You should be able to fit two 460's in there, even with the Accelero strapped to the one you have now, but you'll likely lose the two slots between the cards - if I'm not mistaken, that cooler basically makes your video cards 3-slot affairs.  The sound card is probably not going to fit with a second GPU with an Accelero bolted to it unless it's PCI-E, in which case you can probably cram it into the slot closest to the CPU socket on that board - the Hyper 212 is big but not that big.

SLI is definitely not as trouble-free as a single card solution (and yea, some games have issues), but as long as your 460s match re: RAM, you should be fine, even if the cards aren't 100% identical.

Sky, that's a USB 3.0 motherboard, but does your old case support it? If not you're sort of wasting that capability.

There will still be USB 3.0 ports on the I/O plane and there are drive bay solutions that can add front-mounted USB 3.0.  Hell - my motherboard came with a 3.5" bay device with 2 USB 3.0 ports that I don't have room for in my case (all my bays are full) - if you want it for your build, shoot me a PM, Sky.

Aren't the connectors the same? Cat busted my front two case connectors ages ago, anyway. And really, it's not like I have any USB 3 devices...

Nope - different header (20 pins instead of 9).
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 01:52:43 PM by MisterNoisy »

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Murgos
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Reply #905 on: October 12, 2011, 02:18:16 PM

My current and future build plans are pretty identical to Sky's.  The only thing I guess I want to really know is if it's worth getting a Z68 chipset board for the SSD caching (Intel SRT?) over the P67?

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Sky
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Reply #906 on: October 12, 2011, 05:11:31 PM

Tests showed it's a decent tech, but not all that impressive. Better off getting a decent SSD for OS and a few games.

Another thing I thought of...I suck at PSU calculations :) I overbought /at the time/ but I wasn't considering SLI, I've always done big single cards. So...will this melt down with two GTX 460 1GBs?

I could also shave another $30 off if I don't have to match GPU, going with an MSI Hawk 460. And maybe that cooler would allow the X-Fi (regular PCI) to live at the bottom.

Mr. N, if the ASUS doesn't come with a bay doohickey, I'll take you up on the offer.
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Reply #907 on: October 12, 2011, 05:22:04 PM

If your case is big enough, just get 2 supplies.  awesome, for real

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Reply #908 on: October 12, 2011, 06:00:19 PM

I think you might be right on the edge there, Sky, but I also suck at PSU calculations.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Sheepherder
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Reply #909 on: October 12, 2011, 06:43:30 PM

Your PSU supplies 49 @ 12v.  Find out what your card draws, multiply it by two.
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