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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: The 'Build Me A PC' Thread 0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: The 'Build Me A PC' Thread  (Read 853686 times)
Salamok
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Reply #420 on: November 18, 2010, 12:22:31 PM

Plus by upgrading the MB you can get SATA III and take advantage of all the buttkicking for goodness ssd tech about to roll down the pipe!
Sky
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Reply #421 on: November 18, 2010, 01:34:43 PM

If I were going to upgrade, it wouldn't be by dumping money into this old wreck :) I just had a list on newegg and happened to look after Morf posted that bit about cpus.

I did grab the 460 gtx because it would port to a new system and get a speed bump, plus it would rock SLI and for the first time I think I'd prefer SLI.

That said, since there's no money it's just the fantasies of a graphics whore with a four year old jalopy.
Shrike
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Reply #422 on: November 18, 2010, 08:57:30 PM

There's a deal floating around--Newegg I think--on 470GTXs for $199. The 470 is the new sweet spot. The only downside is you need a pretty substantial PSU for an SLI setup.

Personally, I still regard SLI as a hassle. It's not always a smooth walk in the park. Single GPU if I can manage it. The only fly in the ointment is 2560x1600 resolutions. Even the 580GTX is only just getting it done at this resolution in DX11. At 1920x1200, though, I'd avoid SLI if at all possible.

Rasix
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Reply #423 on: November 18, 2010, 11:10:04 PM

There's a deal floating around--Newegg I think--on 470GTXs for $199.

This card get down to $200 with the combination of the 10% off and mail in rebate.  There's 10% off on a couple of cards and others have around $35 off in mail ins.. but none except this one with both.

-Rasix
Sheepherder
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Reply #424 on: November 20, 2010, 03:04:05 AM

GPU:  Should I get a 460 or one of the new ATI 6850 cards?  I may SLI/CF down the line later when I need to extend the life of the machine.
The performance seems pretty comparable. Personally I'd go with NVIDIA but that's cause I like the drivers better.

...

This heatsink screws down (though it's somewhat fiddly) which I strongly prefer over clips that you have to bend or use push pins. One drawback is that the fan closer to the front of the case, if you install it, may block other components. E.g. on my motherboard I can't fit memory with tall "fins" in the memory slots closest to the CPU with that fan installed.

The 460 is a pretty slick card, upgrading from a X1900 GT. ( why so serious? )

The driver configuration on a NVIDEA card is faster to launch, but they still manage to completely ignore the fact that you have no fucking way to decipher what the fuck 32x vs. 16xq AA is.  I have no clue if modern ATi cards do that, but whoever chairs NVIDEA should be forced to suck off a corpse for that, because it's the most utterly bullshit thing to obfuscate ever.  Very often you're trading one annoyance for another.

Also, whoever designed the Intel push-thing gadgets on heat sinks deserves a bullet in the cerebellum, rendering their state of mental retardation permanent.  If you want an aftermarket heatsink, get something with fucking screws on it.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 03:06:19 AM by Sheepherder »
Engels
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Reply #425 on: November 20, 2010, 09:19:42 AM

GPU:  Should I get a 460 or one of the new ATI 6850 cards?  I may SLI/CF down the line later when I need to extend the life of the machine.
The performance seems pretty comparable. Personally I'd go with NVIDIA but that's cause I like the drivers better.

...

This heatsink screws down (though it's somewhat fiddly) which I strongly prefer over clips that you have to bend or use push pins. One drawback is that the fan closer to the front of the case, if you install it, may block other components. E.g. on my motherboard I can't fit memory with tall "fins" in the memory slots closest to the CPU with that fan installed.

The 460 is a pretty slick card, upgrading from a X1900 GT. ( why so serious? )

The driver configuration on a NVIDEA card is faster to launch, but they still manage to completely ignore the fact that you have no fucking way to decipher what the fuck 32x vs. 16xq AA is.  I have no clue if modern ATi cards do that, but whoever chairs NVIDEA should be forced to suck off a corpse for that, because it's the most utterly bullshit thing to obfuscate ever.  Very often you're trading one annoyance for another.


Do you not know what AA is, or just the specific setting? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_anti-aliasing

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
Sheepherder
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Reply #426 on: November 20, 2010, 01:54:39 PM

The specific setting.  I should not have to Google what exactly 16xQ AA is, when there's a tooltip right at the bottom of the screen that could tell me but doesn't.
Morfiend
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Reply #427 on: November 22, 2010, 03:51:42 PM

Hey guys, I am currently building my new system, and I am kind of stumped on which mobo to get.

Here is what I posted on hardforum about it.

Quote

I was wondering if anyone could give some advice on a mobo for a new build. I was planning on waiting till Cyber Monday, but I picked up a i7 950 at Microcenter and now I really want to do my build.

I already have the i7 950, Corsair hx850w PSU, and an EVGA 460 gtx card. I am planning on grabbing another 460 to SLI.

I am also planning on doing some light overclocking on this build, which I have never done before. OC that is, I have built plenty of systems before.

I am really having problems deciding on a mobo and cpu cooler and case.

Newegg motherboard compare. These are the 3 boards I have been looking at. The last build I did for a friend used the FTW3, and I liked that board, I am also a big fan of EVGA stuff. I dont really see much difference in the 2 EVGA boards. I asked on the EVGA forums, and was told:



Will the second PCI-e slot running at x8 make that much of a difference?

As for the Sabertooth, it seems like a great board, but I really dont like the camo colors (not that it really matters) and I heard its a decent bit more complicated to OC that the EVGA boards.

Any info would be great.

Also, if someone would like to post in the HOT DEALS forum, you can get the Sabertooth at Frys right now for $159 (after $20 MIR).  Sabertooth at Frys. I cant post it as I dont have 50 posts yet.

So basically, between the 2 EVGA boards, and the Asus. I know I shouldn't but I really like the look of the EVGA. I like the sabertooth look also, but it doesnt match any of the current components. I know its a small thing, but it does matter a little. More to the point is that I do want to OC this build a little and I heard that the EVGA OC software and BIOS are really good for beginners.

Some one posted on Newegg that the EVGA board doesnt have "true" SATA 6 and USB 3, but didnt elaborate and I have no idea what that means.

Also, any case recommendations would be awesome too. I like the Antec 900-2, but I hate its hard drive enclosures and lack of cable management. I had my heart set on the Corsair 600t, it has most of the features I wanted. Bottom air intake for the PSU, filters on the front fan, nice cable management and easy access to hard drive bays. But it turned out to be to wide to fit in the computer holder under my desk.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 03:53:22 PM by Morfiend »
Trippy
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Reply #428 on: November 22, 2010, 05:04:18 PM

Some one posted on Newegg that the EVGA board doesnt have "true" SATA 6 and USB 3, but didnt elaborate and I have no idea what that means.
Since none of the Intel chipsets have native support for SATA 6 Gb/s or USB 3.0, motherboards that want to add support for these have to add additional controller chips which need to get integrated using the existing I/O channels on the board which for desktop motherboards would be PCIe. A single PCIe 2.0 lane (x1) supports up to 5 Gb/s bandwidth. The highest speed for USB 3.0 is 4 Gb/s (5 Gb/s is the theoretical max but 4 is the actual limit). So to fully support, say, 2 USB 3.0 ports and 2 SATA 6 Gb/s ports you would need at least 20 Gb/s of PCIe bandwidth or 4 lanes of PCIe (x4) dedicated (not shared with other devices) for those controllers. The boards without "true" support dedicate fewer lanes so you won't be able to achieve max bandwidth on some number of multiple simultaneous devices.

BTW the motherboard specs on the EVGA site are almost useless.
Trippy
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Reply #429 on: November 22, 2010, 05:15:04 PM

Will the second PCI-e slot running at x8 make that much of a difference?
If you mean x16/x8 vs. x16/x16, according to HardOCP the answer would be no:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/08/16/sli_cfx_pcie_bandwidth_perf_x16x16_vs_x16x8/2
Morfiend
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Reply #430 on: November 22, 2010, 08:03:34 PM

Some one posted on Newegg that the EVGA board doesnt have "true" SATA 6 and USB 3, but didnt elaborate and I have no idea what that means.
Since none of the Intel chipsets have native support for SATA 6 Gb/s or USB 3.0, motherboards that want to add support for these have to add additional controller chips which need to get integrated using the existing I/O channels on the board which for desktop motherboards would be PCIe. A single PCIe 2.0 lane (x1) supports up to 5 Gb/s bandwidth. The highest speed for USB 3.0 is 4 Gb/s (5 Gb/s is the theoretical max but 4 is the actual limit). So to fully support, say, 2 USB 3.0 ports and 2 SATA 6 Gb/s ports you would need at least 20 Gb/s of PCIe bandwidth or 4 lanes of PCIe (x4) dedicated (not shared with other devices) for those controllers. The boards without "true" support dedicate fewer lanes so you won't be able to achieve max bandwidth on some number of multiple simultaneous devices.

BTW the motherboard specs on the EVGA site are almost useless.


Thanks, that makes total sense now with some of the other stuff I have read.

Now, would that mean the Asus does have "true" SATA 6 or are all Intel boards false so to speak?

Also, any recommendations on those boards? Seems like the Asus is clearly the superior tech for less money. I guess I am trying to find a reason why I would buy the EVGA, as I want to like the board. I think probably any of them will be fine and I just need to pick one. But I sort of have writers block on it and cant.  swamp poop
Trippy
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Reply #431 on: November 22, 2010, 09:26:17 PM

Some one posted on Newegg that the EVGA board doesnt have "true" SATA 6 and USB 3, but didnt elaborate and I have no idea what that means.
Since none of the Intel chipsets have native support for SATA 6 Gb/s or USB 3.0, motherboards that want to add support for these have to add additional controller chips which need to get integrated using the existing I/O channels on the board which for desktop motherboards would be PCIe. A single PCIe 2.0 lane (x1) supports up to 5 Gb/s bandwidth. The highest speed for USB 3.0 is 4 Gb/s (5 Gb/s is the theoretical max but 4 is the actual limit). So to fully support, say, 2 USB 3.0 ports and 2 SATA 6 Gb/s ports you would need at least 20 Gb/s of PCIe bandwidth or 4 lanes of PCIe (x4) dedicated (not shared with other devices) for those controllers. The boards without "true" support dedicate fewer lanes so you won't be able to achieve max bandwidth on some number of multiple simultaneous devices.

BTW the motherboard specs on the EVGA site are almost useless.


Thanks, that makes total sense now with some of the other stuff I have read.

Now, would that mean the Asus does have "true" SATA 6 or are all Intel boards false so to speak?
It claims it does though looking at the specs more closely I'm a bit confused by the "math" that's used. On my motherboard which has "true" USB 3.0 and SATA 6 Gb/s it has this special chip:
Quote
Unique PCIe X4 Chip for Ultra Performance
- True USB 3.0 Support
- True SATA 6Gb/s Support
The matches the math I did above though now I'm wondering if in fact my board is acting more like the Sabertooth described below.

Looking at the Sabertooth board it says it uses the Marvell® 9128 PCIe SATA6Gb/s controller and the NEC® USB 3.0 controller but the specs for those chips say they use a single PCIe 2.0 lane each, not two lanes each. If you count by PCIe lanes reserved for PCIe slots it also implies those controllers are using one lane each. The X58 plus the ICH10R provide 42 lanes of PCIe 2.0 bandwidth (36 from X58, 6 from ICH10R). The board uses 38 lanes for its PCIe slots plus one for the regular PCI slot which, assuming the PCI slot isn't shared with a PCIe slot, means you have 3 lanes left over. That leaves one lane each for the Marvell and NEC controllers plus one lane for the JMicron® JMB362 SATA controller which also needs one lane. So it seems like at least for the SATA 6 Gb/s controller you won't get the full bandwidth if you have 2 drives hooked up and each can do up to the theoretical max. The USB 3.0 controller on a single lane is less of an issue cause in practice ~3 Gb/s is about the max you can hope to achieve on a single device.

The POS EVGA site doesn't list the extra controllers on their boards but looking at the lane counts for the slots the specs are even more confusing. The 131 board uses 35 lanes for its slots which leaves 7 lanes that can be used for extra controllers and stuff. The 132 board either uses 35 lanes or 43 lanes (!) depending on how you want to read its fucked up specs (it's presumably 35 lanes). With 7 lanes free for controllers EVGA could claim "true" USB 3.0 and SATA 6 Gb/s assuming they are using the same or similar controllers as the ASUS board and using dedicated PCIe lanes. It's possible that these boards, for whatever reason, don't use the 6 lanes provided by the ICH10R chip and so all the additional controller functionality not provided by the X58 and ICH10R have to be crammed into the single remaining X58 PCIe lane that's not used by a slot on the motherboard.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 09:33:18 PM by Trippy »
Morfiend
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Reply #432 on: November 23, 2010, 10:51:57 AM

Thanks again Trippy. I think I got it. Although, it doesnt really help me pick one.

I was planning on running a SATA3 Velociraptor (that I already own) and a SATA 6 1tb Western Digital. It does seem that the Sabertooth is the better tech if I am understanding all that.
Salamok
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Reply #433 on: November 23, 2010, 04:11:56 PM

Thanks again Trippy. I think I got it. Although, it doesnt really help me pick one.

I was planning on running a SATA3 Velociraptor (that I already own) and a SATA 6 1tb Western Digital. It does seem that the Sabertooth is the better tech if I am understanding all that.
Is there any performance difference between using sata 3 vs. sata 6 on a single mechanical drive? Seems that this extra bandwidth requires a high end ssd like the crucial c300 to get used.
Trippy
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Reply #434 on: November 23, 2010, 06:01:13 PM

The Raptor at 10K RPM maxes out at about 85 MB/s transfer rate. A 15K drive can go higher but still not enough to max out 300 MB/s.
Tebonas
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Reply #435 on: November 25, 2010, 10:13:11 PM

Yay, my first mispost. One shouldn't frequent forums during crunch time. Sorry  Ohhhhh, I see.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 10:49:38 PM by Tebonas »
Rasix
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Reply #436 on: November 27, 2010, 07:44:43 PM

OK, graphics card decision time:

This EVGA 470: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130550

Or this MSI 470: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127513

Both will end up costing around the same amount, and I like the reviews of each cards, not to mention they aren't freakishly long (some cards were a full inch longer). I think the 470 is the right priced card for the budget I've maintained; I'm not looking to jump up to a beefier card or an SLI solution.  Plus, I'm just more comfortable with nvidia. I'll be putting it in an Antec 300 Illusion if that makes much of a difference. 

And with this, my build will be done.  Yay. 

-Rasix
Trippy
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Reply #437 on: November 27, 2010, 08:02:01 PM

EVGA has the better warranty if you register (lifetime). Personally I'd go with whichever card was quieter.
Morfiend
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Reply #438 on: November 28, 2010, 11:00:00 AM

I'll second the EVGA. Good warranty, and also the step up program.
Phred
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Reply #439 on: November 28, 2010, 02:29:56 PM


The performance seems pretty comparable. Personally I'd go with NVIDIA but that's cause I like the drivers better.

Quote

Do people who say this use the stock ATI tray tools or the Guru3d ATITray tool? I used NVidia for years, up until my last card which failed prematurely thanks to the solder issue, so I picked up a 5850 and I use the Guru 3d tray tools and I find them way better than either the stock ATI or the NVidia controls.

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Reply #440 on: November 30, 2010, 10:37:14 PM

Since my wife's repairs ended up being the purchase of a whole new computer, and some nasty bills came in, my new PC got put off for awhile there.

So I'm hoping to go in this week. Tomorrow or the following evening to get it sorted. Does this still look good, or is there new superexciting/much better value things that have taken these components' place? I'm sure the stuff listed is all still decent, but there might be something that's now much better value or has been introduced. Some prices have dropped from the original, so I've changed them to the current prices. A bunch of other stuff seems to be really low on stock, so they may be out of any of those components when I go up...

http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/default.php

Intel i7-870   $313.00    (i7-950 $335?)
Asus P7P55D-E PRO  $195.00
WD Caviar Black 2 TB  $206.00
Corsair DDR3 8 GB PC-10600/1333 (4x 2GB)  $155.10 - "Call for stock" - Get the 2x 4GB sticks instead if they are out of the 4x 2GB ones? Other options?
EVGA NVIDIA GTX460 SC (01G-P2-1373-KR)  $244.20 - "Call for stock" - I have NFI about motherboards.
Corsair ATX-750 750W  $225.50  (rebranded Seasonic) - "Call for stock" - aside from wattages, I can't tell the differences, I've bought Thermaltake in the past...
* Corsair AX-850 ATX? $255.20
* Corsair HX-750 ATX? $199.00
* Corsair TX-850 ATX? $180.40

Case (whatever you like)
DVD burner (whatever you like)


My budget will allow for a bit of flexibility, maybe another $100 or so on the GPU, maybe more ram (4x 4GB sticks?) But I really need advice on those things.



http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Engels
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Reply #441 on: November 30, 2010, 11:25:43 PM

I'd go ahead and get 2x4GB ram. More wiggle room down the line.

The 460 has one version with 768 ram and another with the 1GB ram, if memory serves. I'd angle for the 1 GB, since 768 may bite you in the butt in the future.

If you are running a high rez on your monitor, you may wanna consider the next one down the line, the 470 for ~$100 USD more. (yep, I know you're an Austrialasian)

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
Morfiend
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Reply #442 on: December 03, 2010, 09:32:57 AM

I picked up the final pieces of my build last night, and I am going to build it tonight. If anyone is interested, here is what I ended up going with. I actually ended up picking a lot of this stuff up at local B&M shops, using sales and price matching to get pretty decent prices.

Case: Antec 900 Two. $95
Processor: i7 950. $195
Motherboard: Ausu Sabertooth x58. $199
RAM: Corsair XMS3 12gb Kit. $185
Power Supply: Corsair HX 850w Modular. $149
CPU Cooler: Corsair H50 - hybrid water and air cooler. $69

I am also using the hard drive and GPU from my old system.

Main Hard Drive: WD VelociRaptor 150gb. I plan on also grabbing one of the SATA6 WD 1tb hard drives from newegg soon for $89.
Graphic Card: EVGA GTX 460 768mb. I will probably pick up another of these soon to SLI also.

Ill post some pictures of my build while I am doing it if anyone cares.
Rasix
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Reply #443 on: December 03, 2010, 09:55:00 AM

I'll be doing (as much as I get time to) my PC assembly this weekend as well.   Excited and a bit perplexed/overwhelmed.  Haven't built a my own in a LONG time. 


-Rasix
Morfiend
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Reply #444 on: December 03, 2010, 10:31:45 AM

I'll be doing (as much as I get time to) my PC assembly this weekend as well.   Excited and a bit perplexed/overwhelmed.  Haven't built a my own in a LONG time.  



You will be fine. Its much easier these days than it used to be. Round peg round hole etc. This will be my second build in 2 months.

I usually do it in this order.

- Mount backplate and bracket for CPU cooler on motherboard (if you have a 3rd party cpu heatsink).
- Mount motherboard to case.
- Mount PSU.
- Install RAM.
- Install CPU.
- Install Hard Drive and DVD Drive.
- Install CPU Cooler.
- Cabling.
- Power on system to check for post and drives and such.
- Cable management.
- Install Windows.
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WWW
Reply #445 on: December 03, 2010, 12:39:55 PM

My wife intercepted my computer parts and some of them are now wrapped under the tree.

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Reply #446 on: December 03, 2010, 12:41:51 PM

bogus!

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Lantyssa
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Reply #447 on: December 03, 2010, 12:51:18 PM

Dude, that is so wrong.  Never touch a geek's parts.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Sky
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Reply #448 on: December 03, 2010, 01:01:43 PM

My wife intercepted my computer parts and some of them are now wrapped under the tree.
ACK!
Never touch a geek's parts.
Sad Panda
SnakeCharmer
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Reply #449 on: December 03, 2010, 01:22:34 PM


Pick up a couple matching 120mm fans (Antec 3 speeds from Best Buy are fine - put them on medium), mount it in a push/pull configuration with it exhausting OUT of the case.  It's worth about a 10c drop in CPU temp.  The instructions call for the fan that comes in to be mounted as an intake fan that blows air through the radiator and into your case (blowing hot air into your case).  I use Gentle Typhoons on my i5-750 @ 3.8 ghz and I idle in the low 30's and load temp at about 65c.  Totally silent.  Love love love it.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 01:28:18 PM by SnakeCharmer »
Morfiend
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Reply #450 on: December 03, 2010, 01:29:21 PM


Pick up a couple matching 120mm fans (Antec 3 speeds from Best Buy are fine - put them on medium), mount it in a push/pull configuration with it exhausting OUT of the case.  The instructions call for the fan that comes in to be mounted as an intake fan that blows air through the radiator and into your case.  It's worth about a 10c drop in CPU temp.  I use Gentle Typhoons on my i5-750 @ 3.8 ghz and I idle in the low 30's and load temp at about 65c

I'm actually considering doing THIS. I will be getting a set of fans to do push/pull on the H50, I just havent decided on which fans yet. I can't find very many reviews on 120 case fans.
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Reply #451 on: December 03, 2010, 01:41:17 PM

On overclock.net, there's a post in there that has the static pressure, RPM, cfm, and db ratings of a couple dozens fans.  I'm running GTX 470 in SLI, so my ambient case heat is a little bit more than what is normal for the push pull config.  I also keep the front fans on juuuust about their lowest setting and the top fan at its lowest setting.

That's a weird set up that guy is running, but if it works more power to him (and I guess you!).  I use the 900 2 as well.  Cable management is 'ok', not great, but it's a decent enough case.  I really want the Corsair 600T, but can't really justify it right now.  I ended up splicing/soldering all the case fans into one molex plug to keep down the plug/plug/plug/plug nonsense.  I also got an 8pin extension to run the smaller mobo power supply cable behind the mobo.
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Reply #452 on: December 03, 2010, 01:56:17 PM

I also wanted that Corsair case, but a few things stopped me. The plastic on the front part of the case made it look and feel a little cheap. The case is really wide. Its about 3 inches wider at the bottom and about 5 or 6 wider in the middle than the Antec 900 / 902, and due to that it wouldnt fit in the carriage I have under my desk to hold the case.  It has no window, and while I am not super in to all the flashy stuff, it does look nice, and some times I do like to have a look inside there.

Oh yeah and it cost around $65 more than the Antec 902.

I am considering replacing all my Antec case fans with very quiet fans, any recommendations?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 01:58:15 PM by Morfiend »
Trippy
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Reply #453 on: December 03, 2010, 02:04:00 PM

I am considering replacing all my Antec case fans with very quiet fans, any recommendations?
Nexus is the benchmark. I use the Noctua fans.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article63-page2.html
Engels
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Reply #454 on: December 03, 2010, 02:24:52 PM

Newegg's out of the Noctua fans in the review linked. They do have another type, the NF-P12-1300. I suspect they are just as good, but I thought I'd ask here, since I too am considering replacing two of my 120mm.

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
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