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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: The 'Build Me A PC' Thread 0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: The 'Build Me A PC' Thread  (Read 853619 times)
Chimpy
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Reply #315 on: September 25, 2010, 01:31:18 PM

Just wait until they start selling parts as i3 that are "upgradeable" to i5 via entering a code from Intel.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Morfiend
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Reply #316 on: September 25, 2010, 01:41:10 PM

Yes there are faster CPUs but you pay more for them. The point about the i5-760 is the excellent performance you get at the $200 price point. You can pay 50%, 100%, 400% more for 10%, 20%, 30% frame rate improvement.


The i5 750/760 is probably the best bang-for-your-buck CPU out there for high end gaming. The i7 does seem to scale better with high-end SLI systems, but then we're talking megabuck multi-GPU systems where price really is no object (think 2-3 470 or 480GTXs).

Well, the i7 950 is only $299 right now on newegg. Its only like you said, probably 15% faster, but it pushes your whole system to 1366.

As for SLI check the anandtech bench page, it lists all of the cards and you can compare them. Up to this current gen of cards SLI was really only for people with money to burn for epeen machines, but with the 460 cards, SLI is really a good solution for mid-high systems. You can getaround the same performance from 2x460 cards for around $400 as you can from one 480 card that costs $550 to $600. 

The best advice is to go that anandtech bench site and play around with the different cards.
Trippy
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Reply #317 on: September 25, 2010, 09:50:03 PM

1156/1366? Motherboard type?
Triple channel RAM? um...?
(LGA) 1156 and (LGA) 1366 are socket types. Among other differences socket LGA 1156 CPUs use a dual-channel memory controller while LGA 1366 CPUs use a triple-channel memory controller. The 1156 "platform" is generally a bit cheaper than the socket 1366 platform since the CPUs tend to be cheaper, the chipsets are typically a bit cheaper so the motherboards are cheaper (plus vendors tend to load up their LGA 1366 motherboads), and a dual channel memory setup is cheaper if you are willing to go with 4 GB while with a triple channel you'll want to go to 6 GB rather than 3 GB.

I don't really consider triple-channel memory a reason to get a 1366 setup since non-synthetic benchmarks for normal apps don't really show any noticeable benefits. However the X58 chipset, which is the only desktop chipset that supports LGA 1366 processors, does support dual PCIe x16 slots with a full 32 lanes (i.e. x16/x16). With LGA 1156 motherboards, typically, you don't get a full 32 lanes with dual PCIe x16 slots -- e.g. you might get x16/x8 instead of x16/x16. So if you wanted to get an SLI setup you should consider the 1366 platform.

Edit: fixed quoting
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 10:40:19 PM by Trippy »
Azazel
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Reply #318 on: September 25, 2010, 10:33:41 PM

ok so I'll pretty much just be using it for games and work stuff (word processing, etc). I'd like to run things like BF:BC2 and Crysis on high settings, but, you know. Maybe an occasional bit of video editing. As DRM becomes more fucktarded, I'm buying fewer and fewer PC games in favor of console versions, aside from stuff that uses Steamworks.

So now I need to decide whether to go i5 or i7, and likewise whether to go for single or dual GPUs.

For what I'll be using it for:
Will an i7 make a noticable/significant difference?
Will a dual-GPU setup make a noticable/significant difference?


Back to my wife's box for a moment, looks like the mobo is deaded, so I have to rep it or basically bin the whole machine. Since it's an older Mobo (ASUS A7N 8X-E) I'm not confident that Centrecome will have a workable Slot A replacement. So I figure I can probably rebuild it relatively cheaply to be pretty decently upgraded.
It's currently got an ATI 9600/256mb card, and I believe an Athlon 2000 or 2600 in it.

In the $300-400 total range ($500 at a stretch- but completely happy to spend $300 in total), what would be a decent replacement Mobo, CPU and GPU for it? (again, I prefer Intel/NVIDIA)

I'd like to reuse the RAM, if worthwhile. I have 3x RAmos 512 DDR400, CL2.5 sticks.
Then again, if 2 of either of these 1gb sticks are significantly better, it's doable. Or 3 of the $27 one.
http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?sort=2a&products_id=19058
http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?sort=2a&products_id=19050

I'm thinking core2 or i3, decent mobo with onboard everything, and cheap and cheerful gpu that can at least handle shader 2.0 and such, and if it can run (say) Borderlands/TF2/L4D/2 and such decently (doesn't have to be at max). Maybe the above RAM, and I'll do the nuts and bolts myself tomorrow afternoon.

Might have to also buy a cheap SATA optical drive, since the mobos are all listed as only having 1x IDE, and I have 2x IDE optical drives and 2x IDE HDDs in there. (we can live with 1 optical drive in there).
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 11:26:15 PM by Azazel »

http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Shrike
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Reply #319 on: September 26, 2010, 09:42:10 AM

Almost hate to do this, but it really does "just depend."

If money is an issue (mainly if you want to keep it around $1200 or less), go for an i5 760. If you absolutely must drive a 30" monitor or something like 3x22" monitors (or more), then I'd get an i7. If you're running a lot of multi-threaded apps, then I'd get an i7. After that decision is made, then worry about vid cards.

Again, if you're on the cheap and not trying to drive some outrageous resolution, I'd go with something like a nVidia 470GTX (beginning to see them around $250 now) or an coughAMD5850cough card. The only reason to go SLI is if you're really pushing pixels--like a multi-monitor surround setup or a 30". Then you're looking at SLI, but I can tell you right now that the 460GTX still isn't enough for this in an SLI setup and they can't be triple SLI'd. Not with games like Crysis on the table. Best thing here is to go check Hardocp or the Anandtech bench to see what will float your boat and not bankrupt you.

Lastly, PCI lanes don't really matter much with the present CPUs available. There are some extensive tests over on Hardocp that cover this. The mobo...x55, I think...with 8xPCI lanes and dual 460GTXs will get most any job done, short of the aforementioned 30" or whathaveyou. Fuck Crossfire. Ahem. SLI scales better. Period. End of story.

Short answer: get the cheapest mobo that supports the i5, get an i5 760, then get a 470GTX if you can find one around $250. If not, get the 460GTX. That's a powerful system (and pretty similar to mine), and relatively inexpensive.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 09:51:19 AM by Shrike »
Morfiend
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Reply #320 on: September 26, 2010, 11:04:12 AM

The only reason to go SLI is if you're really pushing pixels--like a multi-monitor surround setup or a 30". Then you're looking at SLI, but I can tell you right now that the 460GTX still isn't enough for this in an SLI setup

I totally dont buy this. Look at these results.

SLI 460 vs single 480.
Sheepherder
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Reply #321 on: September 26, 2010, 11:33:04 AM

Most of the current benches have the i7 beating out the i5 at medium and high resolutions. Not by a huge margin but still beating them, also, isnt i5 all 1156? Going 1366 should give you a sligh boost in almost all areas. Also, if you want to overclock, I heard the x58 OCs much better.

You pay a slight performance overhead for HT, and whether you can capitalize on that depends on the parameters of the test.  See here for a test with fairly good parity - the processors are identical, and the i5 tends to outperform the i7 at games despite the "better" socket type.

It takes some time to switch a thread, regardless of the processor.  HT does it faster under very particular circumstances - if the thread on a core is currently finished execution and the other thread stored in the L1 cache of that core is ready for execution.  If the HT processor needs to access the L2 cache to complete the swap then the HT processor is no faster at switching.  Due to this a HT processor may be faster or at a task overall, depending upon where threads are allocated, how much processing time each respective thread needs, and which threads are dependent upon the output of others.
Morfiend
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Reply #322 on: September 26, 2010, 12:05:57 PM

Most of the current benches have the i7 beating out the i5 at medium and high resolutions. Not by a huge margin but still beating them, also, isnt i5 all 1156? Going 1366 should give you a sligh boost in almost all areas. Also, if you want to overclock, I heard the x58 OCs much better.

You pay a slight performance overhead for HT, and whether you can capitalize on that depends on the parameters of the test.  See here for a test with fairly good parity - the processors are identical, and the i5 tends to outperform the i7 at games despite the "better" socket type.

I agree that there isnt much difference, but I believe thats a bad comparison. I dont even know if you can get the 920 chip any more, and with the price reduction of the 950, I dont see any reason to get any i7 lower than that. /shrug

I think really it comes down to how much you want to spend. I am going to be building a new system soon and I am going to go with the i7 950 and SLI 460s. I got my whole system at around $1150. Thats a good price point for me.
Shrike
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Reply #323 on: September 26, 2010, 12:26:09 PM

The only reason to go SLI is if you're really pushing pixels--like a multi-monitor surround setup or a 30". Then you're looking at SLI, but I can tell you right now that the 460GTX still isn't enough for this in an SLI setup

I totally dont buy this. Look at these results.

SLI 460 vs single 480.

460s in SLI will beat a single 480 by a fairly significant margin, but neither can drive the pixels necessary for resolutions like 2550x1600 and up with max or near max settings in the kind of games I'd be interested in. And if I weren't pushing that level of fill rate, I'd still take a single 480 over the 460 SLI setup just for simplicities sake...assuming you have the power supply for the 480.
MuffinMan
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Reply #324 on: September 26, 2010, 12:48:46 PM

Do people even use that high of a resolution unless they have a giant monitor? I mean, I think my monitor is 21 or 22 inches with a native resolution of 1680x1050 and I've never gone higher than that. Mainly because my computer is 5 years old but I guess I was under the assumption you get the best image quality at native resolution anyways.

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Shrike
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Reply #325 on: September 26, 2010, 12:53:24 PM

You do, but the lastest and greatest 30" monitors are 2550x1600. That's a metric shit ton of pixels to drive. When you start talking Eyefinity or NVsuround (or whatever green calls it), then you're up to 5760x1080--or more. That requires truly brobdinagian vid card setups. It looks glorious, too!  DRILLING AND MANLINESS
MuffinMan
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Reply #326 on: September 26, 2010, 01:01:21 PM

That's nuts. I barely have enough desk space for my 22" monitor and speakers. Going SLI just to push 1680x1050 for me would probably be overkill.

I'm very mysterious when I'm inside you.
Azazel
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Reply #327 on: September 26, 2010, 09:32:44 PM

I think I'll just be getting this monitor to go with it: (and just running the one)

Samsung 27" P2770HD ROSE-BLACK LCD - 5MS / WUXGA 1920x1080 / DTV-TUNER / D-SUB / DVI / HDMI / AV / SPKS
http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?sort=2a&products_id=45597

http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Trippy
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Reply #328 on: September 26, 2010, 11:29:39 PM

ok so I'll pretty much just be using it for games and work stuff (word processing, etc). I'd like to run things like BF:BC2 and Crysis on high settings, but, you know. Maybe an occasional bit of video editing. As DRM becomes more fucktarded, I'm buying fewer and fewer PC games in favor of console versions, aside from stuff that uses Steamworks.

So now I need to decide whether to go i5 or i7, and likewise whether to go for single or dual GPUs.

For what I'll be using it for:
Will an i7 make a noticable/significant difference?
If your video editing package uses a multi-threaded renderer with support for more than 4 threads you might see a benefit from the i7. These days, though, using a package that supports GPU-accelerated rendering makes much more of a difference than HT-support does.

Quote
Back to my wife's box for a moment, looks like the mobo is deaded, so I have to rep it or basically bin the whole machine. Since it's an older Mobo (ASUS A7N 8X-E) I'm not confident that Centrecome will have a workable Slot A replacement. So I figure I can probably rebuild it relatively cheaply to be pretty decently upgraded.
It's currently got an ATI 9600/256mb card, and I believe an Athlon 2000 or 2600 in it.

In the $300-400 total range ($500 at a stretch- but completely happy to spend $300 in total), what would be a decent replacement Mobo, CPU and GPU for it? (again, I prefer Intel/NVIDIA)

I'd like to reuse the RAM, if worthwhile. I have 3x RAmos 512 DDR400, CL2.5 sticks.
Then again, if 2 of either of these 1gb sticks are significantly better, it's doable. Or 3 of the $27 one.
http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?sort=2a&products_id=19058
http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?sort=2a&products_id=19050

I'm thinking core2 or i3, decent mobo with onboard everything, and cheap and cheerful gpu that can at least handle shader 2.0 and such, and if it can run (say) Borderlands/TF2/L4D/2 and such decently (doesn't have to be at max). Maybe the above RAM, and I'll do the nuts and bolts myself tomorrow afternoon.

Might have to also buy a cheap SATA optical drive, since the mobos are all listed as only having 1x IDE, and I have 2x IDE optical drives and 2x IDE HDDs in there. (we can live with 1 optical drive in there).
At that budget you are better off going with AMD. If you really want to go Intel I would recommend using some of your box's budget for her machine. E.g. go with 4 GB on your box instead of 8 GB (assuming you will go with LGA 1156) and then use the other 4 GB on her machine. It's easy enough to upgrade to 8 GB later if you find 4 GB is not enough.

So an i3 with a cheaper ASUS LGA 1156 motherboard and say a GT240 would be ~$400 + the 4 GB RAM from your budget.
Azazel
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Reply #329 on: September 27, 2010, 01:22:10 AM

OK, based on the above for her rebuild, I have come up with this - how does it look?

2x
Corsair DDR3 2GB PC-10600/1333 Value Select Ram (VS2GB1333D3)
$51.70ea -> $103.40

Intel Core i3-530 / 2.93GHz / 4MB Cache / LGA1156
$126.00

ASUS LGA 1156
Asus P7H55-M Intel Mainboard - 4x DDR3 / 6x Sata / 1x IDE / Gigabit Lan / Onboard VGA/HDMI / LGA 1156
$109.00


Plus one of the following GT240 cards: - Cheapest available of these, I guess, since I don't know the difference between them and they all look much the same (to me.)

ECS NVIDIA GT240, 1GB, 128bit, DDR2, PCIE2.0, HDTV, VGA, DVI-I, SLI, FAN, HDMI
$101.20

Gigabyte NVIDIA N240D3-1GI GT240, 600Mhz, 1GB, 128bit, DDR3, DVI, HDCP, HDMI, PCIE2.0, ATX
$108.00

EVGA NVIDIA GT240 PCIE 2.0, 1GB, DDR3, 128bit, DVI-I, VGA, HDMI (01G-P3-1236-LR)
$112.20

Asus NVIDIA ENGT240-DI-1GD3 GT240, 1GB, DDR3, PCIE2.0, DVI-I, HDCP, HDMI WIN 7
$115.00

Gigabyte NVIDIA N240OC-1GI GT240, 1GB, 128bit, DDR3, DVI, HDCP, HDMI, PCIE2.0, ATX
$125.40


Total is $440-465, which is within budget. This seems cheaper than Trippy's quote above though.

This machine just needs to run Word, WoW, LOTRO, and in theory a few FPS games like L4D and BFBC2, though not at max settings. Budget is effectively seperate from my new machine since we need to get hers up and running ASAP, and my machine will be post-tax-return in a couple weeks, topped off from our pay at the time if needed.

http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #330 on: September 27, 2010, 07:30:17 AM

Do people even use that high of a resolution unless they have a giant monitor?
The monitors we've been getting at the library for the last year and a half have been 21-24" 1080p monitors. It's pretty much the sweet spot right now, a nice convergence of home theater setup and pc monitors.

In my own case, I also have to factor in 1080p doubled for 3D Vision. Hmm...I wonder how SLI interacts with 3D Vision...having a dedicated card to each eye would be awesome. I'll have to do some reading before I can magically in my imagination afford an upgrade (need new walls in the kitchen & den...).
MuffinMan
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Reply #331 on: September 27, 2010, 09:04:41 AM

On a related note, I came home from work yesterday and my video card I presume is borked. Only a few 4x3 resolutions available, 5 large pink/green bars down the display and says no drivers are installed. It even does the nasty bars during start-up. I've tried reinstalling the card, drivers, using DVI or VGA and it still does the same shit. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the video lag when scrolling or moving windows around.

This sucks but is awesome at the same time. It will take some of the guilt away from spending money on a new computer.

I'm very mysterious when I'm inside you.
Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #332 on: September 27, 2010, 09:23:05 AM

My rear 12cm outflow fan is dying, the bearings are making a racket. I'm trying to convince my fiancee that the computer is obviously on its last legs and I need to rebuild it!  why so serious?
Shrike
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Reply #333 on: September 27, 2010, 09:50:40 AM

On a related note, I came home from work yesterday and my video card I presume is borked. Only a few 4x3 resolutions available, 5 large pink/green bars down the display and says no drivers are installed. It even does the nasty bars during start-up. I've tried reinstalling the card, drivers, using DVI or VGA and it still does the same shit. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the video lag when scrolling or moving windows around.

This sucks but is awesome at the same time. It will take some of the guilt away from spending money on a new computer.

A sure sign of a dead card. Sometimes these can be resurrected by "baking" them (and, yeah, it's like it sounds). Often only a temporary solution, but it will postpone the inevitable. There's a large thread over on HardOCP about this very thing.

Also, once you start getting down in the $125 region, there's the new nVidia 450GTX. I believe this card is supposed to sell for about $125 and it's a good deal more capable than the 240. Hmm, quick check on Newegg shows them about $130 to $160. High end is encroaching on the 460, but Newegg isn't the greatest on price anymore. Still, $130 isn't bad and it is a better card.
Engels
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Reply #334 on: September 27, 2010, 12:20:38 PM

My rear 12cm outflow fan is dying, the bearings are making a racket. I'm trying to convince my fiancee that the computer is obviously on its last legs and I need to rebuild it!  why so serious?

You mean you don't have at least 4 other 120 mm fans lying about? What kind of a tech nerd are you?!

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #335 on: September 27, 2010, 12:32:22 PM

THE COMPUTER IS DYING. NEEDS NEW PARTS. CPU/RAM/MOBO/GPU.

Clearly you can understand this now that I've explained it.

Also, I'm not really a tech nerd. I own more axes than spare 12cm fans.
Trippy
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Reply #336 on: September 27, 2010, 12:58:24 PM

OBL what's your budget post
Sky
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Reply #337 on: September 27, 2010, 01:41:01 PM

I could probably scrape $20 together. Cost of upgrade: just under $900 when I last checked.

Let a man have his fantasies. Unless my computer upgrade can be made out of insulation, drywall, lumber and paint.
Lantyssa
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Reply #338 on: September 27, 2010, 02:34:41 PM

It would make for an interesting case mod.  Insulation might be bad though.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Salamok
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Reply #339 on: September 27, 2010, 03:23:43 PM

It would make for an interesting case mod.  Insulation might be bad though.
Good for the sound dampening, just need to properly plan the airflow. Definitely want to be grounded when working on a box like that though.
Murgos
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Reply #340 on: September 28, 2010, 06:12:33 AM

It would make for an interesting case mod.  Insulation might be bad though.
Good for the sound dampening, just need to properly plan the airflow. Definitely want to be grounded when working on a box like that though.

Use steel wool for the insulation.  It will transfer heat outward (which makes it less of an insulation and more of a heat sink, I guess) and also baffle the internal noise without the ionization problems of the fiberglass (because it would be grounded via contact with the case).   why so serious?

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #341 on: September 28, 2010, 08:08:43 AM

Rigid foam Tuff-R insulation. Masonry house that I haven't gotten around to stud-walling. Anyway. Enough of this nonsense. Sorry for the silliness.
Azazel
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Reply #342 on: September 28, 2010, 01:55:53 PM

So from the lack of response, I assume the parts I listed above are okay?

http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Furiously
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Reply #343 on: September 28, 2010, 04:09:37 PM

Rigid foam Tuff-R insulation. Masonry house that I haven't gotten around to stud-walling. Anyway. Enough of this nonsense. Sorry for the silliness.

oh - you could put some old refrigerator coils behind the studs and then have a nice heat-sink setup....

Sheepherder
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Reply #344 on: September 29, 2010, 12:15:46 AM

I agree that there isnt much difference, but I believe thats a bad comparison. I dont even know if you can get the 920 chip any more, and with the price reduction of the 950, I dont see any reason to get any i7 lower than that. /shrug

It's almost the exact same processor on a different die, clocked to the same speed, with an identical L2 and L3 cache.  It is not physically possible to get a more accurate comparison of what a processor is like before and after HT without drawing the spec yourself.  Your processor of choice compared to the i5 750, clocked 400 MHz faster at a cost of $110 is worth +/- three frames per second, the same amount of money would make a person's 4GB of memory into 8GB or buy 2/3 of another 460GTX to SLI with.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 12:24:25 AM by Sheepherder »
Trippy
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Reply #345 on: September 29, 2010, 12:44:11 AM

I agree that there isnt much difference, but I believe thats a bad comparison. I dont even know if you can get the 920 chip any more, and with the price reduction of the 950, I dont see any reason to get any i7 lower than that. /shrug

It's almost the exact same processor on a different die, clocked to the same speed, with an identical L2 and L3 cache.  It is not physically possible to get a more accurate comparison of what a processor is like before and after HT without drawing the spec yourself.  Your processor of choice compared to the i5 750, clocked 400 MHz faster at a cost of $110 is worth +/- three frames per second, the same amount of money would make a person's 4GB of memory into 8GB or buy 2/3 of another 460GTX to SLI with.
That's not a fair comparison of HT. You are comparing CPUs on different platforms (LGA 1156 vs. LGA 1366) that have different Max Turbo speeds.

If you want to do a real comparison of HT you need to compare the i5 760 and the i7 860. Same platform, same cache, same base speeds, same Max Turbo speeds.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/191?vs=108



« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 12:52:20 AM by Trippy »
Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #346 on: September 29, 2010, 08:07:56 AM

Ooh, I like that bench tool! Trippy continues to deliver the goods.  Love Letters

(Well, anand technically, but celebrate the messenger!)
Morfiend
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Reply #347 on: September 29, 2010, 08:27:50 AM

Ooh, I like that bench tool! Trippy continues to deliver the goods.  Love Letters

(Well, anand technically, but celebrate the messenger!)

Hi, I only linked it like 3 times in the past 2 pages.   Ohhhhh, I see.
Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #348 on: September 29, 2010, 08:49:36 AM

Who are you again?


Damn newbies.


 awesome, for real


(also: woops)
Sheepherder
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Reply #349 on: September 29, 2010, 03:37:13 PM

No games benches.  Tom's has some, results are +/- 2%.  On the plus side, the Anandtech testing seems to indicate that HT no longer threatens to slag your processor like the Netburst implementation (peak power draw is down).
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 03:40:08 PM by Sheepherder »
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