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Author Topic: The 'Build Me A PC' Thread  (Read 391314 times)
Yegolev
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Reply #3045 on: June 15, 2019, 09:51:26 AM

Now she wants to know if she can hook up an Oculus to it. Dell says the GTX1060 is "VR Ready". Leaning toward the Alienware anyway but now I'll have to at least read one article on what exactly the Oculus is about.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Trippy
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Reply #3046 on: June 15, 2019, 03:41:45 PM

Keep in mind that the desktop version of the GTX 1060 is more powerful than the laptop version. The laptop GTX 2060 is more powerful than the laptop GTX 1060 but less powerful than the laptop GTX 1070, and the laptop GTX 1070 is very roughly comparable to the desktop GTX 1060 (all non-Max-Q for laptop versions).

Sky
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Reply #3047 on: June 15, 2019, 05:09:57 PM

Ah, ok. I'd hardly call it a disaster, but I didn't buy it  why so serious? I have the 8th gen i7, so I skipped the i9/7th gen issues, and I've been lucky about the keyboard.

Mosesandstick
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Reply #3048 on: August 23, 2019, 07:14:10 PM

I've been having a few problems with my PC, including games crashing and problems with windows updates. I need to do a reinstall, and as a result I think I'm going to get a new PC at the same time, even if it's a bit earlier than I want in my upgrade cycle.

I want a build that can go as small as reasonably possible - a mini-itx build in a Silverstone SG13. I've picked a few things specifically because of constraints of the SG13 - mainly an AIO cooler, and there are other physical issues I'll need to check later (RAM height, GPU length). https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/Kcm8RJ

CPU - Ryzen 5 3600 (was thinking about an i5 9600K since it doesn't have a fan, but the internet appears to prefer the Ryzen, which is also cheaper)
CPU Cooler - Corsair H60
Mobo - MSI B450I GAMING PLUS AC Mini ITX AM4
GPU - RX 5700 8GB
RAM - 2x8GB DDR4-3000 (picked 3000 because that's what it was available, I think the Ryzen goes up to 3200Mhz so not sure if it's worth finding RAM at that speed)
PSU - 550MW modular (I'm thinking of going down to 450MW)
SSD - Samsung 970 Pro m.2 NVE 500GB (one of the problems with the case is space... I'm not sure if I should try to get another HDD as 2.5" disk or cheaper SSD for media)
Case Fan - Noctua NF-P12

Any thoughts/advice?
Trippy
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Reply #3049 on: August 23, 2019, 08:46:10 PM

RAM speed and latency matters for Ryzen. Buy the lowest latency 3200 memory you can afford or if you don't mind fiddling with some settings go for something like CL16 3600 RAM which tends to be cheaper than something like CL14 3200.

Edit: buy
« Last Edit: August 25, 2019, 10:08:43 AM by Trippy »
Mosesandstick
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Reply #3050 on: August 25, 2019, 09:53:16 AM

Thanks Trippy. With prices here 3200 looks like the sweet spot. Still not buying for another few weeks so will see if prices change by then.
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #3051 on: August 26, 2019, 01:19:21 AM

Your CPU and GPU between them have a potential peak consumption of nearly 400 watts, I wouldn't cut it as close as a 450W PSU, that's just not much headroom. Nothing like having your power supply crowbar in the middle of a boss fight. I have a 600W PSU on a build that nominally only draws 375, so I might be tending towards overkill, but my rule of thumb has always been 150% of CPU+GPU peak power.

--Dave
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 01:20:58 AM by MahrinSkel »

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
Trippy
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Reply #3052 on: August 26, 2019, 01:00:34 PM

How did you get 400 Watts? The CPU is 65W TDP and the GPU is 180W. Real-world power consumption measurements are usually slightly higher than the paper specs (e.g. the Ryzen 5 3600 is usually measures at around 70W power draw) but that's still not enough to get to 400W.

E.g. a Ryzen 5 3600 with a 2080 Ti (with a TDP of 250W, real world power draw of ~280W) draws under 400W for the entire system playing Witcher 3:

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-5-3600/18.html

Which is not to say that he shouldn't stick with the bigger power supply. If you are running a power supply near capacity you may wear out it more quickly. And you may limit future expansion options. Also you typically have more options for higher-end power supplies at the larger sizes.

Chimpy
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Reply #3053 on: August 26, 2019, 07:04:46 PM

Power supplies are also less efficient as they get nearer to peak load.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #3054 on: August 26, 2019, 11:11:36 PM

How did you get 400 Watts? The CPU is 65W TDP and the GPU is 180W. Real-world power consumption measurements are usually slightly higher than the paper specs (e.g. the Ryzen 5 3600 is usually measures at around 70W power draw) but that's still not enough to get to 400W.

E.g. a Ryzen 5 3600 with a 2080 Ti (with a TDP of 250W, real world power draw of ~280W) draws under 400W for the entire system playing Witcher 3:

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-5-3600/18.html

Which is not to say that he shouldn't stick with the bigger power supply. If you are running a power supply near capacity you may wear out it more quickly. And you may limit future expansion options. Also you typically have more options for higher-end power supplies at the larger sizes.


I was reading that chart for the multi-threaded drawing nearly 140W (yes, I know most gaming applications only use two cores, one for the game and one for the OS, but I make power calculations pessimistically). I was looking at the wrong card for the GPU, but even this version can hit 200W. That's 340W rather than the 380 I had it pegged for, but I would still want a *minimum* of a 500W power supply for that.

--Dave

EDIT: Basically, an incrementally higher rated PSU is one of the cheapest bits of insurance you can stick on a build (the other is overkill on the CPU cooling, but he's got that covered). A PSU that can't *quite* handle the load can be an extremely expensive way to save $20-40.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 11:17:25 PM by MahrinSkel »

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
Mosesandstick
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Reply #3055 on: August 27, 2019, 08:51:29 AM

I wasn't able to find fully modular PSUs at that wattage so I've got my eyes on a EVGA modular 550W anyways, though the warning is appreciated. I've got to say trying to go really small form factor is actually proving to be pretty expensive.
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #3056 on: August 27, 2019, 01:26:12 PM

I wasn't able to find fully modular PSUs at that wattage so I've got my eyes on a EVGA modular 550W anyways, though the warning is appreciated. I've got to say trying to go really small form factor is actually proving to be pretty expensive.
Yeah, SFF makes everything harder, and you wind up shopping for what will fit the footprint instead of just bang for the buck. I figure building the backpack rig added about $400 to the cost over identical performance in a bigger case.

--Dabe

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
Cyrrex
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Reply #3057 on: August 30, 2019, 03:22:13 AM

Semi-related to PSU discussions, I am agonizing over holding on to my 1080 card for a while, going full-hog and getting a 2080ti, or even grabbing one of the new 2080 Super cards.  One of the thing that scares me a bit away from the 2080 Ti is that it appears to draw more than 400 watts at stable load (like, 430).  I worry about even my 650w PSU managing that.  And the fucking cost of these things.  And yet, nothing coming on the visible horizon?  Ugh.  First world problems.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Trippy
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Reply #3058 on: August 30, 2019, 09:12:03 AM

Thatís 400W for the entire system, not the card by itself. The card itself will draw around 250W - 280W.
Cyrrex
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Reply #3059 on: August 30, 2019, 09:44:34 AM

Indeed?  Shoulda paid more attention to the benchmark.  Thought it sounded insane.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #3060 on: September 03, 2019, 05:25:07 AM

Currently looking into Ryzen 9 based systems to replace my Core i7 or I would be looking into it if you could actually order those things anywhere in the EU. Also why is DDR4 memory still so fucking expensive? Seems to be a lot of bang for the buck though and isn't affected by all of the recent issues that led to the performance loss patches.

Are there any experiences on compatability yet?
Yegolev
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Reply #3061 on: September 03, 2019, 07:29:29 AM

I only learned Ryzen was a thing last week, so I await any information as well. I'm going to order a Ryzen 3 laptop for the boy to do schoolwork on.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Salamok
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Reply #3062 on: September 03, 2019, 10:46:43 AM

Are there any experiences on compatability yet?

Well I hear they are having trouble getting Meltdown to run on one but other than that they seem pretty compatible ;), if you are looking to build a high end desktop you might want to hold off for the impending next generation of Thread Ripper CPU's, depending on what you are wanting to run it may be worth it.

edit - The only serious compatibility issue I am aware of is that I don't believe you can build an AMD based hackintosh.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 10:53:32 AM by Salamok »
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #3063 on: September 04, 2019, 02:00:33 PM

Well I hear they are having trouble getting Meltdown to run on one

That's one of the advantages of the new Ryzen chips. Current Intels lose a lot of performance when all of the mitigations are active. One of the reasons why I'm looking into it, finally.

if you are looking to build a high end desktop you might want to hold off for the impending next generation of Thread Ripper CPU's, depending on what you are wanting to run it may be worth it.

edit - The only serious compatibility issue I am aware of is that I don't believe you can build an AMD based hackintosh.

Threadripper would be overkill for what I'm doing. I'm not doing anything that requires that sort of multi core performance. 12 cores is more than enough and the higher boost clock of Ryzen would be more interesting for gaming anyway.

As for compatability. Intel has always done a lot of background shit to stifle competition. Intel's optimizing compilers for a long time built code in such a way that it ran worse on AMD systems while incentivizing developers to use it and there's still a lot of SW that - deliberately or not - is focused on Intel. One of the things Intel had capitalized on for marketing purposes in the past. (i.e. buy us, we might be more expensive but you won't have any issues)

Great that compatability issues are no longer the case for AMD.
Trippy
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Reply #3064 on: September 04, 2019, 02:08:35 PM

Destiny 2 is the only one I've heard of not working on the new 3000 stuff which they supposedly fixed recently. There is an issue with boost clock not working as advertised but that's not a game compatibility issue.
Chimpy
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Reply #3065 on: September 04, 2019, 11:06:27 PM

Honestly, a Ryzen9 is probably overkill for just about anything unless you are doing tons of video transcoding while doing other things. Most places I have seen recommend whatever clock rate you like in the 7 series.

I have a Ryzen5 2600 and the thing has way more cores than I could possibly need and it cost quite a bit less than the Ryzen7 2700 (I build my machine last summer).


'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Jeff Kelly
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I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #3066 on: September 05, 2019, 09:10:32 AM

Honestly, a Ryzen9 is probably overkill for just about anything unless you are doing tons of video transcoding while doing other things. Most places I have seen recommend whatever clock rate you like in the 7 series.

I have a Ryzen5 2600 and the thing has way more cores than I could possibly need and it cost quite a bit less than the Ryzen7 2700 (I build my machine last summer).

Yeah, probably. But I'm doing a fair bit of development on the side so more cores == faster build. Ryzen 9 is exactly on the right side of the "just unreasonable enough to still make me want to buy it" scale.
Salamok
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Reply #3067 on: September 05, 2019, 09:59:51 AM

Thread Ripper CPU's make it really tempting for me to want to convert my HTPC to a Hyper V box with many containers.  If enabling virtualization didn't gimp gaming performance so much I would have done this to my main desktop last year.
Chimpy
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Reply #3068 on: September 05, 2019, 06:27:06 PM

You don't need 20 CPU cores to run virtualization.

Shit, I have servers running a couple dozen VMs that only have dual 8 core CPUs and they run just fine.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Mosesandstick
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Reply #3069 on: September 06, 2019, 11:34:03 AM

Update on my build. Was going to buy it last night. Swapped RAM to Corsair Vengeance LPX because they're shorter and I have no idea if I'm going to have clearance issues, though plenty of people had with the SG13 case and their coolers. Ended up deciding to wait on pulling the trigger. The MSI 450I, which seems to be the mini ITX AM4 mobo of choice because of its VRM, needs a new BIOS to work with Ryzen 3000s. And unfortunately the current MSI drivers are only beta.
Salamok
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Reply #3070 on: September 06, 2019, 03:47:33 PM

You don't need 20 CPU cores to run virtualization.

Shit, I have servers running a couple dozen VMs that only have dual 8 core CPUs and they run just fine.

I was thinking more along the lines of running 8-12 VM's running at performance levels close to what my production servers are providing.  I get that 1 virtual core != a physical core in any way and that you could host 30 virtual CPUs on a host with 8 physical cores, that said your performance is going to be better when there are physical cores  available with very little load on them.  The temptation is that you could build a Hyper V box for under 2k that could do everything a $15k production server could except for the redundancy (no redundant PSU, no SAN or RAID 5/10/50).  64-128gb of ram a 20-64 core CPU and a 2-4 TB of SSD would be a pretty sweet little server sandbox for less cost than many macbook pro's.  I suppose AWS and the like make it less attractive than it would be if such services didn't exist but still fun for some folks like myself.

edit - Currently I do much of this locally on my laptop but it would be nice to have something that was persistently on and with extra resources it would be fun to try out some persistent enterprise level build and test solutions that I can't really have up and running ALL the time on a laptop or desktop.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 03:52:17 PM by Salamok »
Yegolev
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Reply #3071 on: September 07, 2019, 05:14:10 PM

Seems like, from this discussion, Ryzen is cromulent.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #3072 on: September 14, 2019, 12:40:48 AM

Seems like, from this discussion, Ryzen is cromulent.
It's been misunderestimated. At this point in the seesaw, AMD is back in the range of reasonable for desktop CPU's. Next month, ask again.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
Yegolev
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2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


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Reply #3073 on: September 23, 2019, 11:09:42 AM

The Ryzen 3 cheapo Acer laptop I bought for the boy seems capable of running Minecraft and whatever else he plays with his group. A++, would buy again.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Azazel
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Reply #3074 on: September 30, 2019, 02:18:50 AM

I'm back here yet again (yeah, I'm sick of me, too!)

Short version is some shit happened that caused my PC to be pushed back yet again, once the RAN and SSD from the previous build were finally available.

So today I decided to go in this week and get it built, so naturally it turns out that their wbesite only saves the builds for 30 days. So I can't remember what I had. Unfortunately I have only a perfunctory idea of what I'm doing or looking at. I've cobbled together this:

https://www.centrecom.com.au/buildpc/129015


Notes:
Should I upgrade the CPU?

I feel like I should get a better Mobo, ideally with more IO (a second LAN port due to experience with a failed one), more USB, etc.

NFI what GPU to get. Raytracing sounds nice, if it's not out of the question. 4k ideally. VR ready. All that Jazz.

NFI what PSU to get.

And then which cooler would work with the above.

Probably one high capacity HDD to go with it as well.

I'll thrash out additional fans/additional cooling when I'm there.

This build is $1733 dollarydoos so far. I feel like I could go to $3-3.5k if needed, since I intend to get a long time worth out of the thing.



More googling came up with this, which is significantly more expensive, and would still need a PSU, probably a more powerful one than the previous build.

https://www.centrecom.com.au/buildpc/129018

might it be worth a higher end mobo?
https://www.centrecom.com.au/asus-x570-prime-x570-pcsm-amd-motherboard
https://www.centrecom.com.au/asus-x570-prime-x570-pcsm-amd-motherboard

(because again, I don't really know what Im doing)  swamp poop

« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 02:43:57 AM by Azazel »

http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Cyrrex
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Reply #3075 on: September 30, 2019, 05:03:50 AM


NFI what GPU to get. Raytracing sounds nice, if it's not out of the question. 4k ideally. VR ready. All that Jazz.


As someone wholly invested in VR but also dabbling more and more in 4K gaming, I will give you a quick two cents.  I have a GTX 1080, and I find it to be "barely good enough" for VR, and "a bit disappointing" for 4K.  This card, or even a 1070, would probably appear to do these jobs quite well initially, but it becomes clearer to me all the time that I need a faster card.  The only thing stopping me right now is the age old argument of Do I Really Want To Spend 1500 Fucking Dollars For 20% More Frames.

Were I building a new system, I would not go less than a 2080 Super.  And that is saying something, since it is essentially the second fastest mainstream card in the world (or close enough).  I am insane, however, so maybe a 2070 would be okay.

Video Cards fucking suck these days, relatively speaking.  I haven't been counting transistors, so I don't know if Moore's Law is a broken theory....but I am annoyed by the fact that GPU hardware is increasingly becoming the bottleneck, despite becoming bigger and more expensive.  Put another way, the fastest possible build you can make is still not quite fast enough.  VR and 4K are making that abundantly clear.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Salamok
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Reply #3076 on: September 30, 2019, 06:45:24 AM

Not sure why you are getting a mini-ITX motherboard with an e-ATX case.   If that is the case you want for sure get an ATX board.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/motherboard-buying-guide,5682.html
Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


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Reply #3077 on: September 30, 2019, 09:52:42 AM

4K is going to be tough to get solid 60 frames out of anything. I was watching a bunch of stuff when I got my 4k tv and the thought of entirely rebuilding my PC with high end parts and STILL having inconsistent frames was kind of nausea-inducing.

I solved it by just playing as much as possible on the PS4 Pro and letting it do it's thing. Still get rough frames in both Madden and the Witcher from time to time, but it works and didn't cost me a used car.

If my PC crapped out and I had to rebuild, I'd probably skimp on the gpu and stick to 1080p for another year or two.

Azazel
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Posts: 7732


Reply #3078 on: September 30, 2019, 01:26:07 PM

Not sure why you are getting a mini-ITX motherboard with an e-ATX case.   If that is the case you want for sure get an ATX board.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/motherboard-buying-guide,5682.html

That would be because I only know what I'm doing in the most general sense, as my PC-enthusiast knowledge really only goes as far as (generally fairly well) knowing how the components fit together and using software. The hardware changes so rapidly in between when I need to know anything about it, so I don't exactly keep up.

4K is going to be tough to get solid 60 frames out of anything. I was watching a bunch of stuff when I got my 4k tv and the thought of entirely rebuilding my PC with high end parts and STILL having inconsistent frames was kind of nausea-inducing.
I solved it by just playing as much as possible on the PS4 Pro and letting it do it's thing. Still get rough frames in both Madden and the Witcher from time to time, but it works and didn't cost me a used car.
If my PC crapped out and I had to rebuild, I'd probably skimp on the gpu and stick to 1080p for another year or two.

I mean, am I better off holding off for another 12 months? I can do that. I'd like to upgrade this thing because its days as a games machine are pretty much long gone, but I can also eke out another year on the PSPro/XBoneX. I don't mind spending a bit on a new box, because unless my wife needs a new one, I'm happy to leave it be for another 4+ years once it's built, aside from storage. And it's something I use every day, and it gets used for both work and entertainment. Much more use than gaming or the consoles.

http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Trippy
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Reply #3079 on: September 30, 2019, 05:06:52 PM

(Rearranged some stuff)
Unless you really need the extra cores you should stick with a Zen 2 CPU rather than a Zen+. I.e. go with the Ryzen 5 3600(X) (Zen 2) instead of the Ryzen 7 2700(X) (Zen+). The Zen 2 is a better architecture and is noticeable in some games:

https://www.techspot.com/review/1871-amd-ryzen-3600/

Quote
I feel like I should get a better Mobo, ideally with more IO (a second LAN port due to experience with a failed one), more USB, etc.
Since you plan this being a long-term build I would go with an X570 chipset CPU rather than X470 since it has more/better features like PCIe 4.0 and USB 3.1 gen2.  As for a 2nd LAN port good luck with that. You'll probably need to either get some sort of USB dongle for a 2nd port if the 1st/only one fails or get a PCIe card.

Quote
NFI what PSU to get.
Either the Corsair HX(i) or RM(i) lines are fine. RM is slightly cheaper/lower quality.

Quote
And then which cooler would work with the above.
Yeah...cooler is an issue. It doesn't look like any of the Noctua coolers they have support AM4. You may want to check with them on that.

Quote
Probably one high capacity HDD to go with it as well.
You probably want either a bigger NVMe SSD or a 2nd one too. 500 GB is not a lot of space these days.
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