Twilight: New Moon

[lamaros]

Marg is more right than the rest of you.

I don't know what the problem is, do some of you just like Bond that much?

A friend of mine was roped in to seeing Twilight at midnight for her friend's birthday with a bunch of other girls. She bought said birthday girl a life sized cutout of wassisname as a present. Guess what? They all thought it was a huge and hilarious (and sometimes disturbing) joke and had a lot of fun with it. None of them are demented psychopaths.

Twilight is just Harry Potter for adolescent girls and 40 year old women. I've see far worse from male fans of Fight Club. Good god they are surely the most self-righteous stupid bunch of idiots in existence.

[Margalis]

I dunno how you can claim that there somehow isn't a gigantic groundswell of overwrought sentiment about this series, because there very clearly is.

Your link includes "The Most Awesome Science Video about DNA Ever Made" and "Metroid Prime Trilogy - The Most Awesom-iste Thing Ever."

Unless you're trying to claim that science nerds and Metroid fans are also equivalent to birthers and truthers I would suggest reading your links before you throw them out as evidence of something.

I've see far worse from male fans of Fight Club. Good god they are surely the most self-righteous stupid bunch of idiots in existence.

Ruh-roh now you've really done it!

I'm not sure what kind of evidence you're looking for (the fact that it set the record for midnight showing box office grosses and opening day box office grosses should be some sign),

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't it dethrone a movie about a rich playboy detective in bat long undies fighting against a killer clown who has been arrested and released from jail roughly 14,000 times to keep the same plot on life support for 50+ years?

I think it's also important to point out that every year features numerous blockbuster movies aimed at men. This year we had giant robots fighting the movie, nerds in space the movie, and man with metal claws the movie. Stuff aimed at women is mostly rom-com garbage or Oscar bait. Big popcorn movies aimed at women are relatively rare, so it's only natural that when they come around once every ten years or so they do well.

Anyway you've gone from arguing that Twilight fans are crazy obsessed freaks to arguing that Twilight is popular. Yeah, no shit. So is Michael Bay. But some of the people in this thread are as obsessive as actual Twilight fans. It's kind of funny that a bunch of older dudes who claim to hate Twilight know the plot details, have worked up intricate bios on the author, read Twilight fan fiction and keep tabs on the fanbase.

Twilight is popular and it probably sucks. Sure. That's it?

[UnSub]

That's it. And you shut your mouth about Batman! 

[WindupAtheist]

I pretty much made up my mind when the aforementioned "I read it because I hate it!" friend told me about how the guy would break into the girl's house to stare at her in her sleep. Without him being taken as a huge creep in the eyes of the author/fans. That whole thing where the one werewolf dude falls in love with the girl's newborn half-vampire superbaby is just the insane icing on the lunatic cake.

It's like the Anakin/Padme thing from Star Wars, except played straight as True Eternal Love instead of ending with the girl being strangled to death. The problem men (and some women) have with Twilight isn't "Oh noes a FEMALE fantasy movie!" in comparison to male fantasies like James Bond. The problem is "Wait, your fantasy is to be STALKED? Really? If my sister had a boyfriend like this I'd beat his ass!"

[lamaros]

What's worse, a fantasy of being stalked by someone who is hot and turns out to love you devotedly and whatever, or to fantasise about rape/incest/physical and mental domination/murder/what the fuck ever... which is found much more commonly and explicitly in most of the shit we read and watch all the time?

I read David Wingrove, but I sure as hell didn't buy into the disgusting shit he wrote about. Pretty sure I can give myself a pass on being able to discern those worrying elements and avoid them (when I was in my early teens), so I seems hypocritical to turn around and say "oh, what I really don't like about Twilight is the female fantasies it demonstrates" as if it's going to corrupt the minds of women everywhere who read it...

I had a bit of a reaction like that myself, but I'm more inclined to think I'm being a controlling dick when I think such things. I don't need to babysit my female family and friends, they're able to see just how stupid some parts of the book are as I am.

Most of the reaction in here strikes me more of a "we know what's best for young girls, how dare they read Twilight" conversation than anything else. Which, considering the demographic, is pretty hilarious and disturbing in its own right.

Edit: Doubly so when you consider that I'm inclined to agree with Numtini, in that Twilight is pretty male, not female, in a number of its fantasies. "Oh no, we don't want to condition young girls into dealing with creepy behaviour by guys, we want them to be more like the girls in our novels, where they put out and do what they're told all the... wait..."

[stray]

Vampires have been staring at people sleeping at least since Lugosi. Nearly iconic imagery there, and hard to avoid it.

[Sjofn]

I see the level of silly fanish-ness a lot more comparable to something like Star Wars. It isn't, at its core, very good, but it's a fun escape and a lot of people (mostly men) take it way too fucking seriously. But we don't have people doing all this bullshit over Star Wars. But Twilight? THOSE CRAZY LADIES!

You know why women like Twilight? Edward wouldn't be a crybaby about Bella reading Twilight.

[Megrim]

Oh, that's a low blow.

[Ratman_tf]

I tried dressing as Count Chocula and breaking into a girls bedroom to stare at her while she slept.

It didn't work. 

[Velorath]

I see the level of silly fanish-ness a lot more comparable to something like Star Wars. It isn't, at its core, very good, but it's a fun escape and a lot of people (mostly men) take it way too fucking seriously. But we don't have people doing all this bullshit over Star Wars. But Twilight? THOSE CRAZY LADIES!

Yeah, nobody holds negative opinions of obsessive Star Wars fans 

[Sir T]

That link to that ggirl doing the chapter walkthrough was some of the funniest shit I've read in a long time.

But seriously everyone is glossing over the most retarded bit. Apparently the only reason the guy even noticed her was he could not read her thoughts, and then once she had gotten his attention (by not having a mind to read which drove him crazy becasue he is a paranoid obsessive) he noticed that she smelled... delicious...

Excuse me while I go fall in love with a hamburger.

Oh and my friend who's read the books said the closes thing to action in the second book was when one of the "bad" vampires tried to kill her by drowning her, and the wolf comes and saves her.

Excuse me but if I was a vampire I could think of a few different ways the kill someone you wanted to get rid of, other then drowning them. Hint: it could involve a drinking straw.

[WindupAtheist]

Excuse me but if I was a vampire I could think of a few different ways the kill someone you wanted to get rid of, other then drowning them. Hint: it could involve a drinking straw.

That's for pussies. Asteroid bombardment or GTFO. Wait which thread is this?

[Ironwood]

Put me in the camp of people who are stranged out that we've talked about this for 6 pages.

All clearly hating it and wondering why anyone's talking about it.

As far as I can tell, it's just a much weaker Harry Potter.  Big whoop.

This would appear to be the new formula for success;  weak book, weaker movies, milk it until it's dry.

Again, I refer the right honourable Gentlemen to the 'Big Whoop' I gave some moments ago...

[stray]

I don't hate it (well, haven't seen this one). I don't care either way, I guess.. But it is funny that so many get pissed off about it. And it's funny as well that some women are building expectations/fantasies of men from it. Some. I think.

The only thing that disappoints me is that some (not all) of the Twlight fans I know actually think it's better than True Blood. I feel like wringing their necks out. Especially considering that it's more their "age" demographic too. But the thing is, it's a romance too --- just better. That's a fact. I will think you an idiot if you just prefer Twilight over it. I wouldn't necessarily consider one an idiot just for liking Twilight.

Damn, I typed too much.

[NowhereMan]

Edit: Doubly so when you consider that I'm inclined to agree with Numtini, in that Twilight is pretty male, not female, in a number of its fantasies. "Oh no, we don't want to condition young girls into dealing with creepy behaviour by guys, we want them to be more like the girls in our novels, where they put out and do what they're told all the... wait..."

See I think the fact that it's kind of marketing 'male' fantasy to girls is weird, the whole 'oh noes my one true love said he's going to leave me forever, now I must mope for months in a bottomless pit of depression. Wait, it's alright he came back, thank god my life can go on again. Also I can tell the nice guy that's actually been there for me that he can go back to being just a good friend." The thing is the weird and creepiness requires taking a step back (not a big one) but some sort of step back from the novel (I'm guessing, I doubt it would have sold as well if she'd straight up written Edward as an abusive stalker) so that's not such a 'OMG she's ruining the next generation of girls you guys!". It's something which is fun to point out to people who are strongly fans of the series in the same way some people enjoy pointing out plot inconsistencies and other shit to Star Wars fans. Teasing people over silly things is fun, especially if it really doesn't matter and they get annoyed (and you're not dating/married to them).

However like Ironwood said, it's a fucking series of books that girls enjoy and that's also gotten itself a huge fucking marketing campaign going. Noone's going to launch a 6 page thread on the fucking baby sitter's club for telling girls that all they really need in life is to look after children because it's a stupid book that girls enjoy reading, it's not a pamphlet on how to live one's life.

[Mrbloodworth]

But seriously everyone is glossing over the most retarded bit. Apparently the only reason the guy even noticed her was he could not read her thoughts, and then once she had gotten his attention (by not having a mind to read which drove him crazy becasue he is a paranoid obsessive) he noticed that she smelled... delicious...

Oh sokie.

[stray]

Edit: Doubly so when you consider that I'm inclined to agree with Numtini, in that Twilight is pretty male, not female, in a number of its fantasies. "Oh no, we don't want to condition young girls into dealing with creepy behaviour by guys, we want them to be more like the girls in our novels, where they put out and do what they're told all the... wait..."

See I think the fact that it's kind of marketing 'male' fantasy to girls is weird, the whole 'oh noes my one true love said he's going to leave me forever, now I must mope for months in a bottomless pit of depression. Wait, it's alright he came back, thank god my life can go on again. Also I can tell the nice guy that's actually been there for me that he can go back to being just a good friend." The thing is the weird and creepiness requires taking a step back (not a big one) but some sort of step back from the novel (I'm guessing, I doubt it would have sold as well if she'd straight up written Edward as an abusive stalker) so that's not such a 'OMG she's ruining the next generation of girls you guys!". It's something which is fun to point out to people who are strongly fans of the series in the same way some people enjoy pointing out plot inconsistencies and other shit to Star Wars fans. Teasing people over silly things is fun, especially if it really doesn't matter and they get annoyed (and you're not dating/married to them).

However like Ironwood said, it's a fucking series of books that girls enjoy and that's also gotten itself a huge fucking marketing campaign going. Noone's going to launch a 6 page thread on the fucking baby sitter's club for telling girls that all they really need in life is to look after children because it's a stupid book that girls enjoy reading, it's not a pamphlet on how to live one's life.

I don't know why you want to point out that one is creepier than the other. From what I understand, Edward Cullen is not exactly creepy in all these ways you want to jokingly warn girls about. He has all the typical creepy vampire behavior, but she also dismantled the vampire archetype with him. I mean, he's a dude who loves his family, plays baseball, and abstains from the typical vampire diet. One who holds back lust as well. Basically, all of the writer's silly Apple Pie shit projected on to a vamp character. Sounds like a nice kid. He only stands over the bed because he's "concerned".

Anyways, I've not seen the movie/read this book, but just because a dude leaves a chick for awhile (if that's what I read right) doesn't make him an asshole. I could be missing a whole bunch of shit as to why he's an asshole, but why is that creepy? And if we're going to overanalyze, from what I understand, the Indian dude is xenophobic (those damn natives!). He's not nice either if you think about it.

[edit] Eh, not sure why people bailing on another/coming back etc is male fantasy either. Women do that shit all the time. Seriously wtf are you guys talking about?

Or maybe I'm not just not reading shit right today.

[Morat20]

I don't know why you want to point out that one is creepier than the other. From what I understand, Edward Cullen is not exactly creepy in all these ways you want to jokingly warn girls about. He has all the typical creepy vampire behavior, but she also dismantled the vampire archetype with him. I mean, he's a dude who loves his family, plays baseball, and abstains from the typical vampire diet. One who holds back lust as well. Basically, all of the writer's silly Apple Pie shit projected on to a vamp character. Sounds like a nice kid. He only stands over the bed because he's "concerned".

I feel horrible about this, but it's a true fact: Vampires who don't drink blood and don't act like Dracula are mainstream vampires now.

The vampire archtype is a whiny bitch filling his diary with angsty rants about his fight against his desire to drink blood, and practically cutting himself because he can't bask in the brilliant sunlight.

[Merusk]

You're right. I blame Anne Rice.

[Big Gulp]

You're right. I blame Anne Rice.

Come on, it started long before her.  Bela Lugosi started the whole "sexy vampire" thing, although I'll give him props for not being a whiny bitch about it.  Nosferatu is still the reigning champ of vampire movies.  That movie is all about decay, death, and dread.  No one has bettered what Murnau did 90 years ago.

ETA:  Upon further reflection, Bela wasn't even the start of that.  Shit, Varney the Vampire and Camilla came out well before Stoker wrote Dracula, so the whole succubus/incubus combined with vampirism theme has been with us since at least the 19th century.  Other authors also touched on the whole curse of immortality thing, but I guess you're right that Rice really amped it up and threw in a healthy dose of homoeroticism to boot.

[NowhereMan]

Stray, I said most of that stuff only becomes creepy when you step back somewhat from the novel. It's not written to be taken that way and plenty of fans reading without seeing that (or ignoring it or acting totally in denial over it) at all. The thing is though creeping into someone's room that you don't know just to watch them sleep (and in fact planning on going back to do it again so it isn't even some bizarre sudden giving into temptation thing) is creepy. Yes, he does it because he loves her so incredibly much and it's fine because she loves him just as much. It's just so easy to point to it and say, "Hey look! Weird and creepy those are all things you specifically don't want people to do in real life." Hell the last book reveals that half the time in the first book when the girl thinks she's alone he's actually watching her from the bushes and thinking about how great she smells.

Also waiting by windows, etc. might be typical vampire things but it still really doesn't work as a romantic lead type thing. If her tore her throat out or used his glittering hypno power to seduce her it would also be a typical vampire thing but wouldn't really be the kind of thing that should be in a romance novel. At least not in the normal healthy vision of what romance should be like. As the woman writer in WUA's link said it's much more satisfying to read this as two weird masochist types who find the perfect partners to pay weird attention to each other.

[stray]

Stray, I said most of that stuff only becomes creepy when you step back somewhat from the novel. It's not written to be taken that way and plenty of fans reading without seeing that (or ignoring it or acting totally in denial over it) at all. The thing is though creeping into someone's room that you don't know just to watch them sleep (and in fact planning on going back to do it again so it isn't even some bizarre sudden giving into temptation thing) is creepy. Yes, he does it because he loves her so incredibly much and it's fine because she loves him just as much. It's just so easy to point to it and say, "Hey look! Weird and creepy those are all things you specifically don't want people to do in real life." Hell the last book reveals that half the time in the first book when the girl thinks she's alone he's actually watching her from the bushes and thinking about how great she smells.

Also waiting by windows, etc. might be typical vampire things but it still really doesn't work as a romantic lead type thing. If her tore her throat out or used his glittering hypno power to seduce her it would also be a typical vampire thing but wouldn't really be the kind of thing that should be in a romance novel. At least not in the normal healthy vision of what romance should be like. As the woman writer in WUA's link said it's much more satisfying to read this as two weird masochist types who find the perfect partners to pay weird attention to each other.

I dunno man. It sounds like you're kind of going some other extreme where you want.... umm.. I guess.. "realistic" romantic values to be cherished.
Whatever those may be. If that's the case, and you're not alone, and sort of.. one of the billion Al Bundys out there or something, then it's exactly why some chicks eat these type of stories up. Heh. ;)

There's the whole twist to vamp literature that stands apart from other romantic stories that makes them weird, I'd agree, but it sounds like you're calling their romantic intensity creepy as well. And then BigGulp is above you just wanting vamps to be grotesque like Nosferatu and shit. I disagree with both of you. I think Edward Cullen is too watered down, but the "sexy vampire" in general is a cool thing. For example, there's a line that Gary Oldman's Drac says when he first spots Mina - "I have crossed oceans of time to find you.." I'm a guy, but I'd admit that dude was fucking money in that scene. And if we're going to criticize intense romantic desire, then may as well call the cops on equally creepy - non vamp "romantic" characters like Cusack blasting his boombox outside his ex-girlfriend's house. Or that old fart in the Notebook who literally moves in a nursing home to be with his Alzheimer's wife - and thinks he can remind her who he is and that he loves her. That stuff is unrealistic and creepy too, but I'd hand it to anyone who actually had it in them.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I gotta admit, his pimp hand was strong.

[lac]

So nobody who has posted in this thread has actually seen the movie?
It's about time somebody takes one for the team.

also:

[stray]

I'll do it I guess. 

[IainC]

So nobody who has posted in this thread has actually seen the movie?
It's about time somebody takes one for the team.

Apart from the guy in the very first post you mean?

[schild]

So nobody who has posted in this thread has actually seen the movie?
It's about time somebody takes one for the team.

also:

Grenades, imo.

Yes, that is pun.

[Slyfeind]

Anyway you've gone from arguing that Twilight fans are crazy obsessed freaks to arguing that Twilight is popular. Yeah, no shit. So is Michael Bay. But some of the people in this thread are as obsessive as actual Twilight fans. It's kind of funny that a bunch of older dudes who claim to hate Twilight know the plot details, have worked up intricate bios on the author, read Twilight fan fiction and keep tabs on the fanbase.

Buffy haters are the same way. I think it's a vampire thing.

[schild]

Anyway you've gone from arguing that Twilight fans are crazy obsessed freaks to arguing that Twilight is popular. Yeah, no shit. So is Michael Bay. But some of the people in this thread are as obsessive as actual Twilight fans. It's kind of funny that a bunch of older dudes who claim to hate Twilight know the plot details, have worked up intricate bios on the author, read Twilight fan fiction and keep tabs on the fanbase.

Buffy haters are the same way. I think it's a vampire thing.

I hate Buffy and Twilight. I gave the former a fair shake, I gave the latter no shake.

I couldn't tell you anything about either of them.

[ghost]

I had to watch this piece of shit tonight.  

It gave me an idea for a new book, however, that I think will work.  It will center around a coven of short, balding, non-athletic, dull witted, out of shape men that mostly sit around playing Dungeons and Dragons, Magic:  The Gathering and Warhammer.  They do this (of course) to protect their potential victims from their monstrous nature.  From time to time they will interrupt this to go on a feeding frenzy that consists mostly of Papa John's pepperoni (they're "vegetarians", you know").  It all gets turned on its ear when one of them (the hot, mysterious one) falls in love with the check out girl at the local comic book store.  It is all he can do to keep from turning her into a fat vampire, too.  

[schild]

It gave me an idea for a new book, however, that I think will work.  It will center around a coven of short, balding, non-athletic, dull witted, out of shape men that mostly sit around playing Dungeons and Dragons, Magic:  The Gathering and Warhammer.  They do this (of course) to protect their potential victims from their monstrous nature.  From time to time they will interrupt this to go on a feeding frenzy that consists mostly of Papa John's pepperoni (they're "vegetarians", you know").  It all gets turned on its ear when one of them (the hot, mysterious one) falls in love with the check out girl at the local comic book store.  It is all he can do to keep from turning her into a fat vampire, too.

I think you stole that from Kevin Smith.

Also, here's some for you.

Seriously, that sort of argument sometimes works, but it doesn't here. Much like Harry Potter, most Twilight fans can not talk about Twilight intelligently. In fact, they don't talk about anything intelligently. It's why they're into fucking Twilight. With games (games is a bad point because the Madden and FPS communities bring down the average, but you know what I'm getting at), D&D, and hell, artsy cinema, you'd be hardpressed to find someone who couldn't at least "fake" intelligent discourse. I'll take a fat slovenly nerd over someone who thinks vampire novels are hot any day.

[ghost]

Thanks for the  .  It makes me feel all giggly inside, like a little school girl.  Or maybe that's the residual Twilight effect.

[schild]

Thanks for the  .  It makes me feel all giggly inside, like a little school girl.  Or maybe that's the residual Twilight effect.

The Oh, I See was for your crap argument. Twilight just made you retarded.

Edit: But it's ok, Margalis tried to make that argument further up and it was stupid then, too. I'll admit, I know a whole lot about stupid shit (not Twilight, but still), and frankly, I'm at least willing to call that stuff "Stupid Shit" and don't claim it to be any sort of good or even remotely awesome. Except Congo, that shit is off the hook.

[ghost]

The Oh, I See was for your crap argument.

I was arguing?

[schild]

The Oh, I See was for your crap argument.

I was arguing?

Apparently not but due to proximity to Marg's post you by mistake made a bad point while practicing the art of not making a point. Or I'm tired.