Think I'll quit and go back to UO.

[schild]

He's not a shill for EA.

Edit: Hebrew isn't hard.

shill   Audio pronunciation of "shill" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (shl) Slang
n.

    One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.


v. shilled, shill·ing, shills
v. intr.

    To act as a shill.


v. tr.

   1. To act as a shill for (a deceitful enterprise).
   2. To lure (a person) into a swindle.


Edit: dictionaries aren't hard.

Did I miss something? What the hell are you quoting a dictionary for?

[WindupAtheist]

The games I've played most lately are UO, Birth of the Federation, a wee bit of Diablo 2, and some Superpower.  I don't own a PS2.  I don't own an Xbox.  I don't give a flying shit about, nor have I ever played, anything related to Half-Life or Halo.  My NES stayed in service later than my PS1, and I'm convinced the world got just a little worse when the Commodore 64 died.

10 FOR N=1 TO 10
20 PRINT "FUCK YOU TOO, ARNOLD!"
30 NEXT N

If you want to trade reduced featuresets for more shiny, go ahead and play Everquest with the other crack-monkies.  I'll take the ugly outdated tottering old whore of a game that lets me build a house tile-by-tile and doesn't make me grind for six months just to buy a goddamn horse.

[Soukyan]

Fist wrote:

The $28 I pay for my two MMORPG subscriptions isn't much compared to the $130 I fork over to the gd cable comany.

Holy shit, that's just sick.  That is about as much as I pay for ALL my utilities in the non-summer months.

I don't pay $28 per month for an MMOG, nor do I pay $130 per month for cable. Quotes are not hard, windbag, so take the time to slow down and fix them if you're going to do 18 replies in a row.

[Soukyan]

I'll take the ugly outdated tottering old whore of a game that lets me build a house tile-by-tile and doesn't make me grind for six months just to buy a goddamn horse.

Note: I despise EQ.

With that out of the way, SimCity let's you build things tile-by-tile as well if that's what turns you on. I can provide a list of many other games that allow you to perform that terribly scintillating activity if you so wish. ;)

[Jayce]

Did I miss something? What the hell are you quoting a dictionary for?

I think he was trying to fit one more post into his marathon posting streak.

[HaemishM]

By that definition, Windup isn't a PAID shill. Which is just that much more sad.

UO's graphics looked dated in 1997. Surprise, they WERE dated in 1997, because they were from Ultima 7, which was released in the early fucking 90's. They were great when SVGA still required you to setup DOS VESA drivers. 1997... not so much. I think UO's later expansion graphics sucked even more monkey cock is because no one does 2d icon art anymore, at least not for games. UO can be defended for lots of things, but the graphics should not be included in that.

[Fist]

The $28 I pay for my two MMORPG subscriptions isn't much compared to the $130 I fork over to the gd cable comany.

Holy shit, that's just sick.  That is about as much as I pay for ALL my utilities in the non-summer months.

I'd be happy if just my electric bill ever got down to $130....hell, I'm happy when it gets down to double that.  Maybe I should yell at the kids more for having every light and TV on in the house when I get home. :-)

[Fist]

By that definition, Windup isn't a PAID shill. Which is just that much more sad.

UO's graphics looked dated in 1997. Surprise, they WERE dated in 1997, because they were from Ultima 7, which was released in the early fucking 90's. They were great when SVGA still required you to setup DOS VESA drivers. 1997... not so much. I think UO's later expansion graphics sucked even more monkey cock is because no one does 2d icon art anymore, at least not for games. UO can be defended for lots of things, but the graphics should not be included in that.

Agreed.  I love UO and still play a few times a week, but I've actually played Commodore 64 games which were more visually appealing.  I hate to say it, but without a MAJOR client overhaul in the next year, UO is doomed.

[WindupAtheist]

The OSI remnant that maintains the game supposedly has some sooper seekrit project underway that they'll reveal soon, and there's been persistent noise about a 3D client that doesn't suck ass, but looking at historical precedent, it'll probably turn out to be a brand new MMO that'll get cancelled halfway into development.

[Dark Vengeance]

The OSI remnant that maintains the game supposedly has some sooper seekrit project underway that they'll reveal soon, and there's been persistent noise about a 3D client that doesn't suck ass, but looking at historical precedent, it'll probably turn out to be a brand new MMO that'll get cancelled halfway into development.

Or a revelation that they will cannibalize features from the aforementioned cancelled title and implement them into UO. That was the very basis for Lord Blackthorne's Revenge, which single-handedly pissed on any remaining shreds dignity UO had left at the time.

Bring the noise.
Cheers.............

[Pineapple]

The OSI remnant that maintains the game supposedly has some sooper seekrit project underway that they'll reveal soon, and there's been persistent noise about a 3D client that doesn't suck ass, but looking at historical precedent, it'll probably turn out to be a brand new MMO that'll get cancelled halfway into development.

Many faithful UO gamers have not upgraded their hardware to run something like an EQ2 or the like.

It is difficult to imagine for those of us that stay ahead of the average on PC hardware, but many people like UO because they haven't been forced to get a gig of RAM or the latest video card. Force a new fully 3D upgrade on them, and risk losing them as customers.

We can say "get with the times, upgrade your PC" or they can just go to a player run server and not have to....for free.

My bet is that the new secret project never sees the store shelves, for mainly other reasons but also because of this reason.

[Fist]

The OSI remnant that maintains the game supposedly has some sooper seekrit project underway that they'll reveal soon, and there's been persistent noise about a 3D client that doesn't suck ass, but looking at historical precedent, it'll probably turn out to be a brand new MMO that'll get cancelled halfway into development.

Many faithful UO gamers have not upgraded their hardware to run something like an EQ2 or the like.

It is difficult to imagine for those of us that stay ahead of the average on PC hardware, but many people like UO because they haven't been forced to get a gig of RAM or the latest video card. Force a new fully 3D upgrade on them, and risk losing them as customers.

We can say "get with the times, upgrade your PC" or they can just go to a player run server and not have to....for free.

My bet is that the new secret project never sees the store shelves, for mainly other reasons but also because of this reason.

This arguement only goes so far...you can't continue to cater to people who are still running 10 year old machines if you want to move forward with a product.  While I'm not really for an update which would have ridiculous system requirements like EQ2 does, there's nothing wrong with requiring someone to have a halfway decent PC that was purchased within the past  few years.   For example, WoW's system requirements are extremely reasonable....

# 800 MHz or higher CPU
# 256 MB or more of RAM
# 32 MB 3D graphics card with hardware transform and lighting, such as GeForce 2 or better
# 4 GB or more of available hard drive space
# DirectX® 9.0c or above
# A 56k or higher modem with an Internet connection

I don't believe it would be in EA/UO's best interests to accomodate anyone with a system less powerful than this.

[Pineapple]

This arguement only goes so far...you can't continue to cater to people who are still running 10 year old machines if you want to move forward with a product.

I agree, mostly. However there are other factors involved, such as how well the game will sell and gain NEW customers against competitors.

The concerns are:
The current veteran subscriber base - how to not lose them, because they are the only thing keeping UO alive right now.

How to appeal to new players with a new revamped game, while keeping all the veterans and their possessions intact.

How to appeal to new gamers, who dont want to join a game where people are already castle owners and multimillionaires. They would have to draw in and retain a lot of people to make this worth it.

How to smoothly upgrade UO's homes and many thousands of items into a 3D game without collosal problems. Imagine the housing in SWG, except 10 times more dense. A house behind every tree. You want a 3D game like that? What about chests with 100+ items in them, stacked.

Making the engine and game be one of the easier running ones out there, like City of Heroes. Not like the slide show graphics monsters that require the absolute best video card.

Do this with experience talent. A lot of OSI's best talent fled already. Who remains that can do this monumental challenge, and do it seamlessly? What you have there are people that *maintain*, not really on the cutting edge of engine coding.

Personally, I dont ever see this huge task being done on time and actually working. Taking UO from 2D/3D to a fully brand new 3D engine is one of the biggest tasks in modern gaming. It wont ship.

[Fist]

This arguement only goes so far...you can't continue to cater to people who are still running 10 year old machines if you want to move forward with a product.

I agree, mostly. However there are other factors involved, such as how well the game will sell and gain NEW customers against competitors.

The concerns are:
The current veteran subscriber base - how to not lose them, because they are the only thing keeping UO alive right now.

How to appeal to new players with a new revamped game, while keeping all the veterans and their possessions intact.

How to appeal to new gamers, who dont want to join a game where people are already castle owners and multimillionaires. They would have to draw in and retain a lot of people to make this worth it.

How to smoothly upgrade UO's homes and many thousands of items into a 3D game without collosal problems. Imagine the housing in SWG, except 10 times more dense. A house behind every tree. You want a 3D game like that? What about chests with 100+ items in them, stacked.

Making the engine and game be one of the easier running ones out there, like City of Heroes. Not like the slide show graphics monsters that require the absolute best video card.

Do this with experience talent. A lot of OSI's best talent fled already. Who remains that can do this monumental challenge, and do it seamlessly? What you have there are people that *maintain*, not really on the cutting edge of engine coding.

Personally, I dont ever see this huge task being done on time and actually working. Taking UO from 2D/3D to a fully brand new 3D engine is one of the biggest tasks in modern gaming. It wont ship.

You don't have to take it all the way to a 3d EQ/WoW type client/interface, in fact, I would really prefer they kept some sort of isometric 3d view rather than switch to a FPS view.  They need to have a high quality client, but need to set themselves apart from being just another EQ/WoW/DoaC clone.  Maybe they could keep the same type of view we currently have, but implement some things in true FPS 3d....like when you walk into a house have an option to view it in 3d...or maybe throw in some 3D dungeons.  That would free them up from having to render the house cluttered above ground areas in true 3d.

btw: The UO dev staff is not just a bunch of maintence coders.  They actually have some pretty good talent in place there now.

[WindupAtheist]

Regarding UO's graphics:  I like the game, but graphics have never mattered to me.  They're a detriment, but one I can personally tolerate pretty well.  That said, they've really done a shit job with them in recent years.  UO3D looks like refried ass, and some 2D monsters were inexplicably replaced with sprites based on scans of those crapful 3D graphics.  A daemon in UO today looks worse than it did in 1997.  A lot of other things look like shit, and there was a rather embarassing thread on Stratics where amateurs were taking items from UO and redoing them far better.  An old engine is one thing, but EA can't even seem to find people who know how to draw.

Anyway, a WoW/EQ style client may be asking too much, but I'll settle for a version of UO3D that doesn't look like a turd on a stick.

[Fist]

Regarding UO's graphics:  I like the game, but graphics have never mattered to me.  They're a detriment, but one I can personally tolerate pretty well.  That said, they've really done a shit job with them in recent years.  UO3D looks like refried ass, and some 2D monsters were inexplicably replaced with sprites based on scans of those crapful 3D graphics.  A daemon in UO today looks worse than it did in 1997.  A lot of other things look like shit, and there was a rather embarassing thread on Stratics where amateurs were taking items from UO and redoing them far better.  An old engine is one thing, but EA can't even seem to find people who know how to draw.

Anyway, a WoW/EQ style client may be asking too much, but I'll settle for a version of UO3D that doesn't look like a turd on a stick.

Agreed...not only does the 3d client look like a turd on a stick, but it performs like shit when compared to the 2d client and there's absolutely no excuse for that...given todays hardware and graphics card the 3d client should actually be able to outperform the 2d client.   I also can tolerate the crappy graphics because I happen to still really enjoy the game and believe that content is more important than a fancy wrapper.  My main reason for wanting to see a graphics overhaul is because I want to see the game survive and I don't believe it can much longer in its current state.

[Pineapple]

UO still is one of the best games out there in terms of gameplay and enjoyment. Regardless of graphics and engine age, it is a great game.

We all know this. We are gamers.

EA execs dont know about this, nor do they care. They care about numbers on charts. Being the difficult and complex task that it is, taking UO from 2D to complete 3D in an EA world simply will not float. From a technical standpoint, it is a hard thing to do. It will most certainly go overbudget.

To us it is justified. But the execs looking at charts make that call. They could make just as much money putting that headcount on some brainless crap console game, and have it ship way sooner and with less hassle.

Too bad that the hardcore gamers know that enough people are tired of the same old MMOGs that they would be willing to return to a truly well made 3D UO world. Take the same quality from UO and put it into something perhaps using a *modified* Warcraft 3 engine.

[Xuri]

*An Corp*

Perhaps Blizzard will let EA license their WoW engine. Then all the roleplayers will have their orcs, elves and undead (and tauren and dwarves and gnomes).  Even more $$$ for Blizzard, new gfx-engine for UO players, renewed income for EA. Huzzah! *throws his bandana in the air*

[Sky]

One of the best things about UO is that it wasn't 3d. 3d graphics set the graphical world back by a decade. We went from detailed sprites to bland and primitive polygons. Only with the advent of games like HL2 are 3d graphics worth putting into a game.

I wish UO2 or the upgrade or whatever plan they will abort was based on even better, high-res sprites. Keep the isometric view, keep the 2d art. It's good stuff.

Or go with the herd and make it first-person in 3d. *yawn*

New art won't bring me back to UO, a game I still consider, in it's earlier forms, to be the height of the mmorpg genre. I've done everything I wanted to do, played it for years. What they need to do is put out a new game, hopefully based on 2d art as I outlined, sometime in this decade. It's got to be getting harder to justify staying with the ancient cobbled-over-the-years engine year after year.

[Dren]

I agree with Sky, but they will continue to be there as long as they continue to do well in Asia.  I hear that is what is keeping their numbers at 100k or so.

UO is good, then, now, and probably in the future.  However, it is old and I've done it.  I've resubbed and tried it again.  I just can't get excited for it anymore no matter how many ninjas they add to it.

They need to start with a new lore and mythos.  Keep all the other and just switch things around a bit or something.  I do agree that 2d vs. 3d isn't everything, but damn they sure could make UO 2d a lot better than it is.  Even with a new graphics design they could jump into this decade and do higher res 2D stuff and look a hell of a lot better.