Think I'll quit and go back to UO.

[WindupAtheist]

Meh, this is getting boring and turning into some mutant combination of...

A)  Morrowind + retards

B)  Slow-paced Diablo 2 + broken login server

At least in UO there are houses, and an economy.  Yes, it's a broken economy, but at least everything worth having isn't soulbound.

[schild]

omfg? u think WoW suxx0rz? LOLLLLLLLERBALL!

Edit: GIS for LOLLERZ


Edit: BTW, the houses are infested:

[stray]

I canceled yesterday. I suppose I'll come back again though. It just needs more time.

I can't think of any MMO worth playing right now except City of Heroes...Which, to be honest, is even more shallow than WoW will ever be. Yet, it still manages to be somewhat interesting. Also, the population of retards seems to be only a fraction of what WoW holds (from what I can tell at least).

The downside is that it's a grind, and with nothing to do in the end (as of yet). A grind is bad as enough as it is, but even worse when you realize you did it for nothing.

Then there's EQ2. I went out and bought it, but I couldn't even get past character creation. That alone killed it for me. I'm still subbed though...What am I missing?

[Shockeye]

Then there's EQ2. I went out and bought it, but I couldn't even get past character creation. That alone killed it for me. I'm still subbed though...What am I missing?

About $49.95.

[Calantus]

UO sucks now, mkay?

So you don't like WoW anymore? I... well, I don't care. All your points were either things I don't encounter or are things I actually like. So yeah, WoW doesn't suit you, you chose a fucktard server, AND you didn't go shopping for a new server when you realised this (the new servers are much nicer btw, less BNet kiddies as they all got in early). Thems the breaks.

[Sable Blaze]

Well, it's EQlive all over again. I thought we all knew that? Guess not.

Actually, I still find the art rather appealing. Some things strike a raw nerve, but the landscapes and cities are quite entertaining.

Additionally, I've found the population not to be nearly so bad as I first would have thought. It's miles ahead of EQOA, considerably better than EQlive, and might even be better than EQ2 (though I didn't play EQ2 enough to really find out). At least people are interested in questing in WoW. In EQ2 all anyone I ran into wanted to do was set up camp and grind. Couldn't get groups to do quests for anything. Lame.

[Signe]

Since hardly anyone, if anyone at all, around here plays UO anymore, I suppose we won't be seeing you around f13 after this.  I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I say, "

"

Good luck in life.

Can someone please erase that account now?

[Fabricated]

I'm still enjoying the game a lot, but man, the quests just took a sudden jump upwards in level requirements unless I missed something.

I'm level 25, and finally got a good group to finish VanCleef, which is meant for level 20 or so players, and a letter you get at the end of it gives you a new quest that eventually sends you to the stockades, which is stuffed to the brim with level 32+ players.

Back to Redridge to finish off some of the boring ass quests there I guess.

[Viin]

Yah, the level requirements increase as you move up it seems - I think it's so that you can either a) wait awhile and do the quests when you are a higher level or b) force you to group or ab) both. Of course, I still get my ass kicked in the stockades at level 31, but I did finish the 4 quests in there at level 27, just need a good group.

I have quests for level 38 that I'm not even thinking of touching until level 35+ and I'll make sure I have a group for it. I think Blizzard's idea is simply to get you to _want_ to group for these quests rather than do them solo (like you are able to do up to about 25ish). Of course, elite quests are quite different than normal quests.

[SirBruce]

I remember when some idiot around here was calling me a liar for saying so many quests in WoW essentially required grouping.

Bruce

[schild]

The majority of quests do not require grouping. Most of them are simple 5 minute delivery or kill 10 weak mobs. You don't notice how many you do because they are so pitifully easy.

Then you get to an elite quest that takes 3 hours and requires a full group and you start noticing how much of a pain in the ass it is.

[Disco Stu]

I'm still enjoying the game a lot, but man, the quests just took a sudden jump upwards in level requirements unless I missed something.

I'm level 25, and finally got a good group to finish VanCleef, which is meant for level 20 or so players, and a letter you get at the end of it gives you a new quest that eventually sends you to the stockades, which is stuffed to the brim with level 32+ players.

Back to Redridge to finish off some of the boring ass quests there I guess.

The stockades can be done with a group of 25-28. I have no idea what 32s are doing there they can't possibly be getting any sorta of decent xp. I'm up to 39 now and I've found about half the quests require a group if you want to finish them quickly. Of course I havn't been doing quests for the last 3 lvls. SM is just way to much fun. At 25 you should probably head to darkshire or wetlands. Darkshire IMO is one of the coolest lower lvl areas in the game.

[Morfiend]

Yah, the level requirements increase as you move up it seems - I think it's so that you can either a) wait awhile and do the quests when you are a higher level or b) force you to group or ab) both. Of course, I still get my ass kicked in the stockades at level 31, but I did finish the 4 quests in there at level 27, just need a good group.

I have quests for level 38 that I'm not even thinking of touching until level 35+ and I'll make sure I have a group for it. I think Blizzard's idea is simply to get you to _want_ to group for these quests rather than do them solo (like you are able to do up to about 25ish). Of course, elite quests are quite different than normal quests.

Usually this means its time to change zones and seek out new towns to give you quests. I never played that high on the alliance side, so I cant tell you where to go, but I do know that in general the alliance has more quests than the horde so you shouldnt have much problem. Inless you have had a higher level player running you through quests there is no way to do all the quests for most levels with out leveling up to be ready for the next quests.

[Viin]

Yah, I've found that true too. Been messing around in Hillsbrad and Arathi Highlands, but looking to do Gnomeregan soon. :) (If anyone knows of another Alliance zone besides those two for a level 31'er, let me know!).

[Threash]

Yah, I've found that true too. Been messing around in Hillsbrad and Arathi Highlands, but looking to do Gnomeregan soon. :) (If anyone knows of another Alliance zone besides those two for a level 31'er, let me know!).

You can start the quests in stranglethorn vale at level 30, if you want you can easily stay there until 50.  Im level 42 and i still have red quests to do there.  Start with the hunting quests and rebel camp quests to the north then work your way south to booty bay.  Darkshire quests should also be good at that level, and the feel of the whole zone is just amazing.  Desolace is another good place, you can start the quest that leads to the scarlet monastery in your high 30s there.

[Der Helm]

Is this the time when everybody announces that they cancel their subscription because of  ...

to much questing ?
not enough questing ?
too many retards ?
not a big enough playerbase ?
broken game mechanics ?
missing endgame ?
pointless PvP ?

or my alltime favourite, burnout  because I played beta for 6 months ?

Damm, I really should put more time into the game so I can join you guys again

[SirBruce]

The majority of quests do not require grouping. Most of them are simple 5 minute delivery or kill 10 weak mobs. You don't notice how many you do because they are so pitifully easy.

Then you get to an elite quest that takes 3 hours and requires a full group and you start noticing how much of a pain in the ass it is.

Yes.  But just to be clear, I never claimed the "majority" needed grouping.  I think I just complained that they were so numerous, and when pressed for figures, gave an estimate of around 10%.  Note sure if Elite Quests still show up as Elite in your completed quest log in WoW -- or even if WoW has a log of completed quests.  In any case, that won't catch those quests that weren't Elite but pretty much required a group anyway for the level at which they were doled out.  But, my point is, people could check their own quest lists and see what their percentage is.

Bruce

[WindupAtheist]

World of Warcraft doesn't suck.  It does a certain thing, and it does it better than any of the other games that try to do the same thing.  WoW has lasted long enough to get a subscription fee out of me, while AC lasted less than a week, and DAoC/Horizions/whatever never even convinced me to pick up the box.

The quests are a great way to advance, but I've never been very concerned with advancement.  In UO I've been known to turn the skill gain notices off completely.  As far as I can tell, here's what appeals to me in UO:

*  Overhead speech text, and a lack of tells.  It feels like you're talking to someone, not like watching a cartoon with a chat box below.

*  The housing system is quite good.

*  Economy.  Don't lecture me on the price of ingots.  When I came back to UO last time with a fresh character, I made newb cash by finding cheap weapons on player vendors and selling them at Britain bank for twice as much.  Most of the "super rich" people I knew made their money simply through "buy low, sell high."  Vendor browsing and negotiating at the bank can make you a lot more cash than monster killing, if you feel like it.

*  No classes, no levels.  My hybrid necromancer/macer/samurai might suck compared to more conventional templates, but at least there aren't a thousand guys just like me on the server.

*  Character customization.  Not at character creation, but afterward in the form of cloaks, sashes, robes, masks, dye tubs, etcetera.  I can quite often recognize someone without looking at their name in UO.

EDIT:  Grouping wasn't a problem in WoW.  I was a level 30 paladin and was soloing most of what I needed to do.  Occasionally I would team up with one or two other people in the area if something was a bit too hard.

[stray]

Going by that, I'd say that you probably like Raph more than you had thought. UO probably wouldn't have had any of those little things without him.

You might even like SWG:

* Overhead speech text, and a lack of tells. It feels like you're talking to someone, not like watching a cartoon with a chat box below.

Check

* The housing system is quite good.

Check

* Economy. Don't lecture me on the price of ingots. When I came back to UO last time with a fresh character, I made newb cash by finding cheap weapons on player vendors and selling them at Britain bank for twice as much. Most of the "super rich" people I knew made their money simply through "buy low, sell high." Vendor browsing and negotiating at the bank can make you a lot more cash than monster killing, if you feel like it.

Check

* No classes, no levels. My hybrid necromancer/macer/samurai might suck compared to more conventional templates, but at least there aren't a thousand guys just like me on the server.

Check

* Character customization. Not at character creation, but afterward in the form of cloaks, sashes, robes, masks, dye tubs, etcetera. I can quite often recognize someone without looking at their name in UO.

Sucks here. There's more customization at creation, but in-game, just about everyone is wearing composite armor. But besides that, much of the game is done in the style of UO.

[Sable Blaze]

Elite quests become more common the higher you level. Some quest "types"--like anything to do with gnomes--are mostly elite.

As you level higher, you'll find many quest cycles will turn elite at the last cycle or two. The Resistance quests in Stranglethorn are a good example of this. A lot of class specific quests will have a ton of fedex stuff, then a fight with an elite boss to wind things up (warrior Cyclonic series springs to mind).

I like doing quests. It did gall me some to keep having to skip the few early elite quests just because I out-leveled them so quickly and/or couldn't hook up with friends to do them. However, you get so many quests, that really you can't see or do everything. I've missed huge numbers of them, and most instances besides. Even so I have a maxed quest log most of the time. Trying to sync them with friends takes a lot of time and effort, but that's what I play for.

Overall, I have to say I do like the way Blizzard has set things up. I have some quibbles over game mechanics, but the simple fact is the game IS fun. Occasionaly irritating, sure, but I keep coming back because I do enjoy it. Even as a warrior.

I've been wondering where the game will go eventually. The first year of EQ, we all didn't much care. Now we do. Still, even EQ had a year of nothing but two dragons and endless grinding in GUK and SolB. At least in WoW, we have about 4 instances....heh.

[Calantus]

I love to quest.

I could stop there but I really should qualify. I like to do quests because they are quests. It could give me no money, give no xp, give no items, be as annoying and lame as hell, but every character of mine will do it because its a quest damnit. Alot of people complain about fedex quets and I'll join in when the fancy suits me. I'll also bitch when I get jack-all for my efforts, and I'll complain when the last 10 creatures I kill don't drop that last GODDAMN LIVER. WTF IS WITH ALL THE KILLING OF BOARS FOR THEIR ASSORTED BODY PARTS ANYWAY? But if given the choice I'd do it again 'cause I just can't get enough.

So yeah, WoW is my cocaine and I can't see me getting off it for a while now.

And I like Morrowind. Anybody want to guess how many times I've done the first fighter guild quest? It aint pretty.

[sinij]

Point is that there are alternatives to doing group quests, you don't HAVE to do any of them to get to level 60. It is good idea to do them but you can survive without doing them if you are hardcore soloer (why are you playing mmorpg again?)

[SirBruce]

Point is that there are alternatives to doing group quests, you don't HAVE to do any of them to get to level 60.

Yes, but you don't HAVE to do ANY quests at all.  Yet I hardly think you'd find the game acceptable if someone gave that answer when you found all the quests too difficult or frustrating.

It is good idea to do them but you can survive without doing them if you are hardcore soloer (why are you playing mmorpg again?)

For the same reason why I can enjoy going to the movies alone, even though I'm sharing the entertainment experience in a crowd of hundreds of other people.

Bruce

[Pineapple]

Yes.  But just to be clear, I never claimed the "majority" needed grouping.  I think I just complained that they were so numerous, and when pressed for figures, gave an estimate of around 10%.  Note sure if Elite Quests still show up as Elite in your completed quest log in WoW -- or even if WoW has a log of completed quests.  In any case, that won't catch those quests that weren't Elite but pretty much required a group anyway for the level at which they were doled out.  But, my point is, people could check their own quest lists and see what their percentage is.

Bruce

That is completely a moot point.

Let's say I look at my 20 quests, and 5 of them are currently elite ones. Holy crap! 25 percent of this game is forcing me to group! *cries*

Actually, I can abandon those 5 elites and go find 5 non-elites to fill their spot. Non elite quests are all over the place. It all depends on what areas you have ventured to and explored. You can often find quests in your capital cities if you know where to look.

The main issue with quests is not a percentage of them forcing grouping. It is knowing where to find them, or accidentally passing some up that you failed to notice because they were in the back corner of town. You can go from level 1 to level 60 without ever doing an elite quest OR spending any significant time XP grinding.

Instances are completely optional in this game. You still get storyline and quests in series and exploration.

[Sable Blaze]

I would debate intances being optional. As I'm hitting my 40s as a warrior, I pretty much can't buy equipment in the AH anymore. It simply doesn't exist when you need it (which is about every other level).

Post-40, you are stuck with instancing to equip yourself. Some of your quests can help, but most will be elite, so you're still going to have to assemble a group to do them. Tradeskillers can make some useful stuff, but prices and supply of such things are highly erratic.

If one simply insists on doing almost everything solo, then your class choices are probably going to be restricted to the pet classes. They're far less equipment oriented, and since you bring your own group you're in much better shape for the higher level quests.

[Koyasha]

Generally whenever I start getting a decent number of Elite quests in my quest log, I also have several quests pointing me to different areas.  Hence I believe what the game is trying to do is encourage me to either get my ass outta the zone I'm in and explore other portions of the world, or group with other people.  If I don't want to do the latter, I can easily do the former and find entire new zones full of solo quests.  That's also why the gap between your level and the level of the quest you get increases, I think, so that if you like to group, you have the option of taking your group to do quests several levels above you.

[Threash]

I've been wondering where the game will go eventually. The first year of EQ, we all didn't much care. Now we do. Still, even EQ had a year of nothing but two dragons and endless grinding in GUK and SolB. At least in WoW, we have about 4 instances....heh.

25 instances according to thotbott.

[SurfD]

I think he meant 4 end game instances, unless you intend to troll around Ragefire Chasm at 60.

[WindupAtheist]

The path of advancement is so predictable and linear.  There are certain quest, critters, and items set aside for different ranges of character level, and you just run through the world like Pac-Man scooping them up.  Soulbinding and level requirements on hardware are there to make sure nobody gets any creative ideas about going off the carefully planned course.

In UO I can train a warrior up to reasonable competence in relatively short order, and from there decide how I want to advance.  Maybe advancement is clobbering away on monsters until I'm 7xGM.  Maybe I'd rather augment my character with some uber-items.  Do I want to get them myself, or buy them?  If I buy them, do I want to raise the money through hunting or through bank-trading?  Maybe advancement for me is having a really kickass house.  Or taking the time to assemble a suit of armor with particular characteristics.

In WoW it's just quest, quest, quest, OMG DING GRATZ, quest, quest, shiny new sword, quest, quest, group with some retards, on to infinity.

[Viin]

WoW does have a lot of questing, but isn't that what everyone has been asking for since Day 1?

Maybe advancement is clobbering away on monsters until I'm 7xGM. Maybe I'd rather augment my character with some uber-items. Do I want to get them myself, or buy them? If I buy them, do I want to raise the money through hunting or through bank-trading? Maybe advancement for me is having a really kickass house. Or taking the time to assemble a suit of armor with particular characteristics.

Um, that happens in WoW too, I'm not sure why you think this is unique. I can quest for uber items, I can buy them on the AH, or I can get twinked with the help of a guildie. I can raise money by doing quests, hunting, crafting, selling materials, or begging. Maybe my goal is to get the full Defias suit of armor, so I hunt for those item drops. Or, I use my Leatherworking skill to make me a suit of +stamina +agility items.

Maybe my goal is to have the largest guild on the server, so I'm more socially involved than anything else. (Of course, I should probably change my guild name from "Servants of Viin" to something else).

How is this different?

[Jayce]

In UO I can train a warrior up to reasonable competence in relatively short order, and from there decide how I want to advance.  Maybe advancement is clobbering away on monsters until I'm 7xGM.  Maybe I'd rather augment my character with some uber-items.  Do I want to get them myself, or buy them?  If I buy them, do I want to raise the money through hunting or through bank-trading?  Maybe advancement for me is having a really kickass house.  Or taking the time to assemble a suit of armor with particular characteristics.

In WoW it's just quest, quest, quest, OMG DING GRATZ, quest, quest, shiny new sword, quest, quest, group with some retards, on to infinity.

It's true that UO is the closest the world has gotten to a virtual world, versus the more game-like everything else in creation.

Too bad the game is too fundamentally flawed and outdated to ever regain its contender status again.  I look forward to someone else coming out with something comparable.

[WindupAtheist]

Um, that happens in WoW too, I'm not sure why you think this is unique. I can quest for uber items,

No, you can quest for the next shiny weapon in Blizzard's carefully planned progression, that you'll use for X number of levels and then sell off to an NPC because it's soulbound.

I can buy them on the AH,

You can buy a subset of items which are appropriate for your level and do not bind on pickup, farmed by people who have no intention of using them because they bind upon being equipped.  Which will naturally be used for X number of levels and then dumped on an NPC.  Don't even think of selling your outgrown items to another player, or giving them away to a newb.  That might overpower the newb and throw him off of Blizzard's predestined course of content-consumption.

or I can get twinked with the help of a guildie. I can raise money by doing quests, hunting,

You'll be questing and mowing down foozles constantly anyway, because That's What You Do in World of Warcraft.

crafting, selling materials, or begging.

Crafting is a withered appendage of the quest/combat system.  A top-notch fisherman (or miner, or whatever) needs to be a badass killing machine, because the best fish just so happen to only be found near the hardest monsters.  For chrissakes, how much more transparently "gamish" can they make it?

Maybe my goal is to get the full Defias suit of armor, so I hunt for those item drops. Or, I use my Leatherworking skill to make me a suit of +stamina +agility items.

That Defias suit had better fit into that narrow band between "above your level" and "too weak to be worth shit at your level" or else it's just a banksitting suit in a game where there isn't even banksitting.

Maybe my goal is to have the largest guild on the server, so I'm more socially involved than anything else. (Of course, I should probably change my guild name from "Servants of Viin" to something else).

How is this different?

Yes, WoW has guilds.  Too bad they can't really do anything.  At least in UO they can fight wars.  Hell, these days they can even form alliances and set victory conditions.

[Fabricated]

That Defias suit had better fit into that narrow band between "above your level" and "too weak to be worth shit at your level" or else it's just a banksitting suit in a game where there isn't even banksitting.

"Bind on Pickup" for item drops that aren't tied to a quest (i.e. the item you get for completing it, or a quest-starting drop from an NPC) is the biggest pile  of bullshit ever.

Maybe I'd like to collect a full set of Defias Armor and pawn it on the AH/Trade Channel for obscene amounts of cash? Nope. Soulbound. Beh.

[Rasix]

Jesus Christ, I go on vacation, don't touch a computer 4 days and read this.

Could you guys(this can be thrown at numerous, but the central target is obvious) be a bigger bunch of whiney pussies? I swear, "I'm quitting" posts should fucking mandate a week ban and a backwards run through a cholla field followed by a bleach bath. BE THANKFUL MY FINGER IS UNABLE TO REACH THE BUTTON.

Play UO and bathe in the irony of point B.  

Tyioe'theys rhlysuis thibuguhg'ghh!

[El Gallo]

I would debate intances being optional. As I'm hitting my 40s as a warrior, I pretty much can't buy equipment in the AH anymore.

I think that this is a temporary thing.  Warriors are equipment-dependant, and always will be, but you are a bit ahead of the levelling curve atm.  That's why you aren't seeing much 40+ gear, which drops from 45+ mobs, which aren't being killed as much, and when they are killed, it is more frequently by a member of a tight guild who pass the worthwhile loot around.  In a few months, I bet this won't be a problem at all.

It's easy to level to 60 just soloing, and gain the gear you'll need to keep soloing while soloing.  You miss out on the best part of the game doing that IMO.