Think I'll quit and go back to UO.

[Soukyan]

Wow! Post explosion.

First of all, if you are getting instant fun from the game, then it is worth the subscription fee; however, work is not something to which you should pay to subscribe. The nice thing about the aforementioned cable subscriptions is that you get instant gratification. When you turn on the movie or series on HBO, etc., you know immediately what you are getting. Good entertainment (yes, some movies and shows suck, I know) is a given and you have far more options available in terms of entertainment programming. With MMOG subscriptions, you have a few options: kill, quest, explore, craft, trade. Add to that the fact that several of those options absolutely suck in terms of fun and engaging activities and you are paying for a lot of nothing. Don't get me wrong, I'm a graphics whore myself so I usually pay at least once to see the goods.

To clear up some possible avenues of attack from the cheap seats and my having to climb up and beat your ass to a pulp, let me state that I have and do subscribe to MMOGs. Those subscriptions will soon expire (part of the New Year resolution list), but I am still found wanting and irrational due to my past transgressions. So be it. Thanks to Six Feet Under, I will continue to subscribe to cable television and HBO. Thanks to every MMOG on the market, I don't feel that much loss at not spending monthly fees on them.

[Calantus]

One idea I've been tossing around in my head is for bind on equip items to be bound to an account instead of a character.

Are you a Blizzard developer? If not, it's really an idea you've been tossing off in your head.

Semantics.

[Alkiera]

Thanks to Six Feet Under, I will continue to subscribe to cable television and HBO.

That's what Bit Torrent is for.  Sure, the dying star place is gone, but it wasn't the only torrent collector on the net.

Thanks to every MMOG on the market, I don't feel that much loss at not spending monthly fees on them.

Indeed, and understandable.

Alkiera

[Fist]

Wow! Post explosion.

First of all, if you are getting instant fun from the game, then it is worth the subscription fee; however, work is not something to which you should pay to subscribe. The nice thing about the aforementioned cable subscriptions is that you get instant gratification. When you turn on the movie or series on HBO, etc., you know immediately what you are getting. Good entertainment (yes, some movies and shows suck, I know) is a given and you have far more options available in terms of entertainment programming. With MMOG subscriptions, you have a few options: kill, quest, explore, craft, trade. Add to that the fact that several of those options absolutely suck in terms of fun and engaging activities and you are paying for a lot of nothing. Don't get me wrong, I'm a graphics whore myself so I usually pay at least once to see the goods.

To clear up some possible avenues of attack from the cheap seats and my having to climb up and beat your ass to a pulp, let me state that I have and do subscribe to MMOGs. Those subscriptions will soon expire (part of the New Year resolution list), but I am still found wanting and irrational due to my past transgressions. So be it. Thanks to Six Feet Under, I will continue to subscribe to cable television and HBO. Thanks to every MMOG on the market, I don't feel that much loss at not spending monthly fees on them.

Six Feet Under and The Soprano's are pretty much the only reason I have HBO too...unfortunately my cable company requires me to have Showtime in order to get HBO and once you reach that  point it's only another $3 or so to have Cinemax and TMC so I wound up with those too.  The $28 I pay for my two MMORPG subscriptions isn't much compared to the $130 I fork over to the gd cable comany.  btw: I remember reading somewhere that the next season of Six Feet Under will be the last. :-(

I don't think you can simplify MMORPG's as "kill, quest, explore, craft, trade" either...it's still a lot better than passively viewing the crap on TV lately (with the two exceptions noted above and maybe 2 or 3 other shows).

[Rasix]

Don't forget Deadwood. That show pwns me and then some.   Just watched the first two episodes again last night.  God, it's even better the second time.

[Righ]

I've been a McShane fan since he first played Lovejoy. He's outdone himself in Deadwood though. The fact that it's also a great production made it my TV favorite of last year. For the sake of storytelling, there are a few historical flaws, but fewer than previous TV treatments of this material.

Cocksuckers.

[Rasix]

He just completely makes the show.  From how much of an evil, antagonistic cocksucker he was in the first few shows (wife really hated him), he really became and interesting and multi-faceted cocksucker towards the end of the first season (wife loves him now).  He's funny as hell too. I have a feeling it's all going to end up very bad for him (given the actual historical context) and he's going to lose out to that evil Cy cocksucker and various other more sinister parties.  He's a good guy and a complete scum wad at the same time.  

This next season just can't arrive fast enough. I think other than new episodes of Lost, I haven't looked forward to anything this much on TV. Cocksuckers.

[Jayce]

First of all, if you are getting instant fun from the game, then it is worth the subscription fee; however, work is not something to which you should pay to subscribe. The nice thing about the aforementioned cable subscriptions is that you get instant gratification.

I think the error in logic that you are making is that instant gratification is the only valid form of fun.  Some people like to work toward a goal, and they find it fun overall if not necessarily fun at a given instant in time.  Hence the non-intuitive, but genre-making idea of paying to work. Of course, that's has also been called "masochism".

Sidebar: in that light, the new Bartle types are:
Masochist
Asshole
Windbag
Sploiter
Which map to which "classic" type is an exercise for the reader.  

But to return to the point, they are all valid playstyles.  What's fun for me isn't necessarily fun for you.

[Soukyan]

I think the error in logic that you are making...

I do not make errors in logic.

[HaemishM]

Masochist
Asshole
Windbag
Sploiter

I'll give you all one guess which one I am.

[Signe]

Masochist
Asshole
Windbag
Sploiter

I'll give you all one guess which one I am.

Masochist?  

If yes... oh! You kinky boy, you!

[Rasix]

Masochist
Asshole
Windbag
Sploiter

I'll give you all one guess which one I am.

We have to pick just one?

I think I'm a combination, asshole/masochist with maybe a touch of sploiter.

[HaemishM]

Wow, I guess I should consider myself lucky no one picked Windbag, which I thought was a shoe-in.

[Rasix]

Well, I was going to put you down as a windbag/masochist. I mean, you did resub to Dark Age afterall.

[Signe]

Asshole Masochist... alone each might be a little amusing, but together it's kind of scary.

[stray]

100% Sploiter

[Righ]

100% Sploiter. Fuck the Masochists (sorry guys).

The masochists don't want you to say sorry after you fuck them.

(Edit: you can edit, but you can't hide)

[stray]

(Edit: you can edit, but you can't hide)

Heh

New Years Resolution: Try to be a better Asshole.

[schild]

100% Sploiter. Fuck the Masochists (sorry guys).

The masochists don't want you to say sorry after you fuck them.

You just made my entire day. Thank you.

[Signe]

The masochists don't want you to say sorry after you fuck them.

I'd use this for a sig, but, unfortunately, it doesn't tie into my furniture theme.

[Paelos]

The masochists don't want you to say sorry after you fuck them.

I'd use this for a sig, but, unfortunately, it doesn't tie into my furniture theme.

Insanity doesn't need a theme. I'd say go for the gusto.

[WindupAtheist]

I mulled over keeping my WoW account open, but shit.  Even when it was my only MMO, I still had a hard time keeping up with my catass acquaintances/guildmates.

[sidereal]

What does that have to do with furniture?  You're off topic.

[Arnold]

An effective trolling.  Well done, Windupathiest.

Honestly, guys, you really believed somebody would quit WoW for Ultima Online?   I'll buy getting bored of WoW and quitting - even the best game can't teach you enough to stay infinitely enjoyable.  It's just that "going over ot Ultima Online" thing afterwards thing...

It's like saying you've traded in your Lamborghini because the Pinto in the back of the lot with the blown tire and five bullet holes across the windshield just has charm.  Nostalgia should not be able to adequately cover the deficiency involved.   They're putting NINJAS in the next expansion, for cripes sake.

But yes, if he were serious, good advice was offered here.   SWG is very much 3D Ultima Online on steroids with Star Wars dressing in many ways.    If it's an Ultima Online esque crafting vibe you seek, either SWG or A Tale In The Desert are good choices.

I'd love to have a pre-pub 16 UO back and would choose it over any modern game.

[Arnold]

It's not a grind when you're having fun.

That reminds me of "It's not braggin if you really done it".

And it's the same thing really - it's still bragging, but that's ok.  It's still grinding, but that's ok.

The fact that thousands of people have paid (millions if you count Korean MMOGs) means that grindage either really IS fun (gasp!) or that people are willing to put in long hours for a perceived payoff.  I suspect it's a little of both.

Hell, the grind is the only thing that gives me faith in this generation.  If some of us are willing to catass for teh ubar, at least some of us are goal-oriented and don't mind hard work.

I'm goal oriented and don't mind hard work... at WORK!  Fuck that shit in my free time.

[Arnold]

Ultima Online, for all it's virtual world dynamics, is nonetheless quite finite and spent for the vast majority of us.   Personally, were I in your shoes I would consider trying a different class in World of Warcraft, since with few exceptions they all play quite a bit differently.

The world of UO ceased to be amusing to me because of changes made to the game.  Hell, I'd happily play the pre-pub 16, UO:R era on an OSI shard.  I know there are the free shards, but I've seen far too many of them crash and burn to invest any time in them.

[Arnold]

Is EA paying you?  You do realize that 90% of the people on this board have played UO right?

The only thing that makes me think he is an EA shill is that he likes AOS-era UO.  Other than that, I can totally understand where he is coming from.

[schild]

He's not a shill for EA.

Edit: Hebrew isn't hard.

[Arnold]

Time is money.

Sure, instead of buying that mount you could grind for it in-game - but time is money - you could use that in-game time to make money in real life. And, instead of making money online to get your wife a car you could use that time to earn more money doing something else.

If you are a contractor who makes $100 an hour and can bill for whatever hours you want, paying $50 for a WoW mount is more cost effective than playing the game for it, if you would have spent that time working instead.

It's all just balancing opportunity cost. Maybe I want a mount but I only get to play a couple hours a week and also want to read a book from time to time...to each his own.

Both the buying and the selling can make sense in the right situation. (Not that I advocate either)

That only mattes for lameass timesink games, which all mmogs seem to be these days.  I'd like to see how much a champion-player Counterstrike account goes for on ebay.  Probably nothing, since that is what it is worth.

If you pay money for advancement in a game, it's not much of a game.  Any part of a game that people would pay real-life money to skip is a part of the game that shouldn't be included in the finished product.

[Arnold]

Unfortunately the graphics are only slightly better than what you would have found on a Commodore 64 twenty years ago...

I have to call bullshit here.  Yes, UO graphics are dated.  However, they are VERY well done for their time and format.  If UO graphics suck so bad, how is it that none of the expansions after T2A managed to come close to those of the original?

[schild]

Heh, I can comfortably let people stand in and defend UO for a LOT of what it did. But it's graphics were total shit through and through. The graphics in the original Metroid were far better. Hell, the graphics in Pinball for Nintendo were better.

This isn't really a direction the conversation should go and it's also not part of UO that deserves being defended.

[Arnold]

The $28 I pay for my two MMORPG subscriptions isn't much compared to the $130 I fork over to the gd cable comany.

Holy shit, that's just sick.  That is about as much as I pay for ALL my utilities in the non-summer months.

[Arnold]

First of all, if you are getting instant fun from the game, then it is worth the subscription fee; however, work is not something to which you should pay to subscribe. The nice thing about the aforementioned cable subscriptions is that you get instant gratification.

I think the error in logic that you are making is that instant gratification is the only valid form of fun.  Some people like to work toward a goal, and they find it fun overall if not necessarily fun at a given instant in time.  Hence the non-intuitive, but genre-making idea of paying to work. Of course, that's has also been called "masochism".

Sidebar: in that light, the new Bartle types are:
Masochist
Asshole
Windbag
Sploiter
Which map to which "classic" type is an exercise for the reader.  

But to return to the point, they are all valid playstyles.  What's fun for me isn't necessarily fun for you.

"Masochist" is a much more accurate term than "achiever".

[Arnold]

Heh, I can comfortably let people stand in and defend UO for a LOT of what it did. But it's graphics were total shit through and through. The graphics in the original Metroid were far better. Hell, the graphics in Pinball for Nintendo were better.

This isn't really a direction the conversation should go and it's also not part of UO that deserves being defended.

Just because you couldn't jizz over some shitty, 3D abomination in UO 1997, like you might have in other games, does not mean those 2D graphics are bad.  I think they look better than most of the 3D mmogs we've seen.

[Arnold]

He's not a shill for EA.

Edit: Hebrew isn't hard.

shill   Audio pronunciation of "shill" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (shl) Slang
n.

    One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.


v. shilled, shill·ing, shills
v. intr.

    To act as a shill.


v. tr.

   1. To act as a shill for (a deceitful enterprise).
   2. To lure (a person) into a swindle.


Edit: dictionaries aren't hard.