winter patch: Dominion

[Fordel]

Is there already a limit to how many disruptor you can plop around?


Could someone just dump disruptor in like 50 systems and make you run around like a jackass?

[Goumindong]

Ah ha ha ha ha. This was dumb when CCP first floated it a fucking year ago. Will they never learn?

Post contains too much content.  Consider breaking it up, next time, into two or more posts of more easily digestible size.

Care to share just what makes you so sceptical?

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=635828&page=16#4

Could someone just dump disruptor in like 50 systems and make you run around like a jackass?

Yes, but you can just have your roaming fleets take them all out one by one as they are spread out.

[ajax34i]

CCP wants feedback on each Dominion feature.

[Pezzle]

12 hours to sov neutral?  What do we call this, nosov pong?  That is pretty much a terrible fucking idea.  How does this help groups get established in 0.0?  It takes 12 hours to lose sov but 24-36 to gain it?  You will see NIP's pop up in short order while groups dick around with timezones just for laughs.  And on gates of all things.

Of course, the flip side to this is Defenders shooting some goofy module.  I am at a loss, really.  What was so horrible about moving fights to planets and having a single planetary module claim sov at a time?

[Gets]

Sorry about the confusion on this matter; it turns out that the design doc was wrong Crying or Very sad

The onlining time for the System Restore Unit / Disruption Marker is correctly set at 24 hours. The text description and the flowchart in this blog are both using an incorrect value of 12 hours because that's what it says in the design. Which is wrong.

We are having a ponder over whether the claiming unit should be less vulnerable - either moving its cycle to 12 hours, or giving it a longer invulnerable anchoring time and a shorter vulnerable onlining time or similar.

Also, when considering how easy/hard sov is to take/disrupt, it's informative to ask yourself why you're trying to do so in the first place. Specifically, bear in mind that sov has no impact on station ownership under the current design.

Mass confusion. People are making too many assumptions that things are set in stone, but hopefully the test server events will lighten the subject by giving everyone who wants a hands-on. In other words the timezone issue, while important, should be a lesser problem than it is in the old sov mechanic, but more importantly sov will have no impact on outpost ownership, and they haven't announced how outposts will work out. They've stated they don't want any kind of outpost ping-pong though.

The new Doomsdays if anyone's interested. Remember, testtesttest:



Also, the new In Game Browser is great since honestly it can't be any worse. It's based on Chromium, which is nifty since I'm using Chrome right now.

[Amarr HM]

The description of the new doomsday matches an idea I posted up here in discussion and on the Eve-o forums nearly verbatim. 100% speed loss and losing jump drive capability for five minutes are drawbacks I also suggested herein and uncannily they are even the times I suggested or as close to as I remember. If it fails you can all blame me :/

[Goumindong]

bear in mind that sov has no impact on station ownership under the current design.

Someone should tell him that that does not make it any better. Seriously, separate mechanisms for upgrading space and owning the stations? [which were previously tied to who owned sovereignty so its not like this is an undue assumption]

[palmer_eldritch]

bear in mind that sov has no impact on station ownership under the current design.

Someone should tell him that that does not make it any better. Seriously, separate mechanisms for upgrading space and owning the stations? [which were previously tied to who owned sovereignty so its not like this is an undue assumption]

That does seem confusing to me.

[Raging Turtle]

Has factional warfare affected lowsec at all, or is there any word of reworking it into something worthwhile?

[eldaec]

I'm seeing a lot of confusion around whether sov can be disrupted anywhere or whether it can only be disrupted on the border of your space.

Either way, 24 hours seems too long to be fun from an attacking point of view, and but impossible to shorten and remain reasonable from a defender's point of view.

If disruption is limited to borders it sounds like the defender's advantage is too strong.

If the disruption can happen anywhere, it seems too easy (but very boring) for the attacker.


CCP's argument 'but sov isn't important to stations any more' is all very well, but jump bridges, cyno jammers, and the ability to plan fuel use are arguably even more important than stations.

And yes, I'm speculating, but how in god's name do you test this in any meaningful way?


Surprising thing about all this (to me) is dumping the reinforcement mechanic. The only reason I can think of for doing this is to reduce the number of ships in a battle.

To take a tower you effectively needed to control the system for *any* 15 minutes, and then a *specific* 15 minutes about a day or two later. The announcement of the time of the battle is what drives up the numbers in combat.

To run the disrupt you need to control the system for any continuous 24 hours, then to claim you need any 24 hours before anyone else. Attacks on sov camps under this system are likely to happen at whatever time minimum participation is expected.

Also, the new In Game Browser is great since honestly it can't be any worse. It's based on Chromium, which is nifty since I'm using Chrome right now.

Or you can just play in windowed mode, and use an actual chrome browser while in game.  

[Gets]

And yes, I'm speculating, but how in god's name do you test this in any meaningful way?

On the test server 

Test schedule:

Friday [September 18] @ 18:00 GMT Faction Ships revisited STRESS!
Friday [September 25] @ 18:00 GMT Supercapital unavailing Ohhhhh!
Monday to Sunday [October 5-11] @ 18:00 GMT Sov war of WIN!

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1180242

[Skullface]

And yes, I'm speculating, but how in god's name do you test this in any meaningful way?

On the test server 

Test schedule:

Friday [September 18] @ 18:00 GMT Faction Ships revisited STRESS!
Friday [September 25] @ 18:00 GMT Supercapital unavailing Ohhhhh!
Monday to Sunday [October 5-11] @ 18:00 GMT Sov war of WIN!

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1180242

Is this going to be current SOV holders only? Or are they setting up dummy alliances on the test server for this?

[Gets]

Red vs. Blue

Two alliances (Red and Blue) will be created on Singularity and players will be invited to join them and duke it out for control of a small area of space. Your opinions will be gathered on this part of the new sovereignty system and will be relayed to the team responsible.

[ajax34i]

[...] how in god's name do you test this in any meaningful way?

It's simple:  log on to the test server, where they have their nice red vs. blue scenario all planned up nicely, and without being part of either alliance, go and completely fuck up any attempts by either alliance to set up anything meaningful.  If 12 hrs. is the problem, show how that can be exploited.

[Gets]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYBLP9hxWVE Look at dat fukken' planet!

[Skullface]

Red vs. Blue

Two alliances (Red and Blue) will be created on Singularity and players will be invited to join them and duke it out for control of a small area of space. Your opinions will be gathered on this part of the new sovereignty system and will be relayed to the team responsible.

Thanks!  

It's simple:  log on to the test server, where they have their nice red vs. blue scenario all planned up nicely, and without being part of either alliance, go and completely fuck up any attempts by either alliance to set up anything meaningful.  If 12 hrs. is the problem, show how that can be exploited.

Purple Alliance, go go gadget clusterfuck!

[palmer_eldritch]

I mean, you have sovereignty but you still can't dock in the station? Or can people dock in stations even where they don't have sovereignty, which would suck. Or am I just retarded? (not multiple choice, there may be more than one correct answer)

[Gets]

We don't know yet!

[dwindlehop]

Or can people dock in stations even where they don't have sovereignty, which would suck.

Correction, we do know there exists a way to control who docks. We just don't know what it is, whether the claim/disruptor mechanic or something else.

[Trigona]

Something that also needs to be considered is the making of supercaps.  What alliance is going to make these beasts when the manufacturing process can be disrupted so easily.  There is no Sov 4 to protect the manufacturers now.

Prediction: If this does not get rectified Titans will no longer be made.

[Teleku]

I kind of like the idea of only being able to take sov in border systems.

[IainC]

Something that also needs to be considered is the making of supercaps.  What alliance is going to make these beasts when the manufacturing process can be disrupted so easily.  There is no Sov 4 to protect the manufacturers now.

Prediction: If this does not get rectified Titans will no longer be made.

And we will all weep bitter, bitter tears.

[Gets]

11% tax in NPC corps.

It's not in the sisi patch notes because I don't know how to edit them

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1181766

[Simond]

Should be higher, or scale with time spent in the corp, or something.
1% tax for the first three months, then 11% for the next three, then 21% and so on.

[Meester]

No-one has ever thought of Red Alliance before 

We need a Grey Alliance - made up entirely of neutrals. Shame most alliances practise NBSI, oh well.

Something that also needs to be considered is the making of supercaps.  What alliance is going to make these beasts when the manufacturing process can be disrupted so easily.  There is no Sov 4 to protect the manufacturers now.

Prediction: If this does not get rectified Titans will no longer be made.

If you cannot defend what you are building, then you don't deserve what is being built.

[Reg]

Should be higher, or scale with time spent in the corp, or something.
1% tax for the first three months, then 11% for the next three, then 21% and so on.

Do you have a reason for this or is it just more "punish the empire dwellers" nonsense?

[Skullface]

Should be higher, or scale with time spent in the corp, or something.
1% tax for the first three months, then 11% for the next three, then 21% and so on.

Do you have a reason for this or is it just more "punish the empire dwellers" nonsense?

I think it's part of the ongoing efforts to curb the inflation problem. I would imagine this is just one part of it.

[Reg]

If it were about inflation then the tax would apply to all corps - not just the NPC ones. Clearly, it's yet another "incentive" for carebears to get out of them and into regular Corps so that they can learn about all the special fun involved in being war-decced by bored pvpers with nothing better to do than torture miners and mission runners.

[Comstar]

11% tax in NPC corps.

That is somewhat unbelievable, but I guess Seleene really did do it. It's an easy "fix" for empire, but it would seem you can just train 1 skill and make you own 1 man corp. New players get penalised too, quite harshly.

The only reason I can see to do it is to penalise level 4 mission runners, and a flat 11% tax on everyone to fix that one issue is too big. It also leads me to to suspect that 0.0 individual player rewards aren't going to be very big.

[Gets]

Too big? 60% of L4 mission running income comes from Loyalty Points.

The number is average only to appease the non-mission runners scoffing at Empire farmers for having completely risk-free income without causing the latter to flood eve-o with threadnaughts. There will be no tax for newbies at first, but it will likely not gradually increase. I very much like idea of NPC corp tax increasing depending on time spent in it though.

[Skullface]

If it were about inflation then the tax would apply to all corps - not just the NPC ones. Clearly, it's yet another "incentive" for carebears to get out of them and into regular Corps so that they can learn about all the special fun involved in being war-decced by bored pvpers with nothing better to do than torture miners and mission runners.

But tax rates on PC corps are adjustable. It's easily offset by just moving the scale, unless CCP decides the tax rate scale should go from 12% - 111%.

The only reason I can see to do it is to penalise level 4 mission runners, and a flat 11% tax on everyone to fix that one issue is too big. It also leads me to to suspect that 0.0 individual player rewards aren't going to be very big.

Then, instead of increasing taxes, why not just lower the bounties on those rats/rewards/bonuses?

[Reg]

Why do you care how long people spend in NPC corps? How does their playing the game the way they want to hurt your fun?

[Skullface]

Why do you care how long people spend in NPC corps? How does their playing the game the way they want to hurt your fun?

If you mean me - I don't. My main is in The Scope at the moment.

If you mean random players who whine about Empire citizens, I believe the reason is "We play the real way, you suck!"

Internet spaceships are serious business, after all.

[Phred]

Why do you care how long people spend in NPC corps? How does their playing the game the way they want to hurt your fun?

If you mean me - I don't. My main is in The Scope at the moment.

If you mean random players who whine about Empire citizens, I believe the reason is "We play the real way, you suck!"

Internet spaceships are serious business, after all.

Everyone preaches the holy sandbox of EVE, until it comes time to force everyone to play their way.

[Skullface]

Why do you care how long people spend in NPC corps? How does their playing the game the way they want to hurt your fun?

If you mean me - I don't. My main is in The Scope at the moment.

If you mean random players who whine about Empire citizens, I believe the reason is "We play the real way, you suck!"

Internet spaceships are serious business, after all.

Everyone preaches the holy sandbox of EVE, until it comes time to force everyone to play their way.

It's like that in all MMO's though, so it's not particularly shocking. It happens in WoW (the perpetual PVE v PVP fights,) WAR (people who keep playing, and people who unsub,) etc.

I was looking over fittings for my first Thorax the other day. I opened a fitting on Battleclinic and within three posts someone screeches "Psh, that'd be ok for Empire! But in real PVP it'd get torn apart!"

So, of course, the rest of the thread buried all of the constructive criticism and theorycraft with mindless Empire v. Nullsec nonsense.