PvP for Dummies

[Drubear]

Last I checked there is no gear to be bought with IoC marks - so they are just for the Concerted Effort turnin.

I think most people use the other marks (at 80) to get the mounts. Check Wow Head for vendors. The are (used to be?) a little tricky as the BG faction vendors are actually outside the entrance, so you don't really (easily) see what can be bought. But as I recall they are itemized to 70 but after that you need to go to the Officer's Club in Org (or SW) and check out the honor gear.

As for the latter, as was said, the items there are about to shift with the new arena season, so holding off seems best.

[dd0029]

You can use marks for Major Healing and Mana potions from the one of the vendors in Stormwind.  You can also use them to buy tabards and the war mounts.

Major Combat Healing Potion -http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31839

Here's the wowhead link for what you can use the AV tokens for.  Go to the end of the list to see the non gear items.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=20560#currency-for:0+1

[Nebu]

Next dumb questions:

- Why do they drop you into groups in the BG's?  Noone heals.  Noone ever buffs.  There's no way to coordinate group action in a pug. 

- Can you queue for a BG as a group?  If yes, doesn't that give one side a HUGE advantage?

[Ingmar]

Next dumb questions:

- Why do they drop you into groups in the BG's?  Noone heals.  Noone ever buffs.  There's no way to coordinate group action in a pug. 

- Can you queue for a BG as a group?  If yes, doesn't that give one side a HUGE advantage?

They force-group you because many years ago people would drop out to solo in BGs to avoid sharing honor, kills, etc. (Mythic are you paying attention?)

You can queue for BGs as a group, but that's actually pretty rare. But yes, when you happen to come up against a premade it usually makes for a short brutal match.

[Vash]

Next dumb questions:

- Why do they drop you into groups in the BG's?  Noone heals.  Noone ever buffs.  There's no way to coordinate group action in a pug. 

- Can you queue for a BG as a group?  If yes, doesn't that give one side a HUGE advantage?

Ingmar covered part of this, the other reason is for those healers that do actually heal, having people in their group/raid lets them actually see them in raid frames and heal normally instead of trying to invite/get groups going or heal out of group, both a pain in the ass.  Not to mention all the group/raid buffs and procs classes are designed to share and the significant amount of abilities that require the target to be in your party/raid to work (priest shields for example).

People should at least be buffing 30 min buffs at the start of every game ( everyone has the preparation buff, it costs them no mana and the subsequent food/drink if it did).  Generous folks or people with so much money it doesn't matter will often use 60 minute buffs (30 min for pally blessings) that cost a reagent just for convenience / time savings.

You can queue as a group, but if you queue as a group, especially with more than 5 people (aka a raid) the match making system will TRY to match you against other groups who queue together.  This also has the added bonus of making your queue take much longer.  Since your advantage of grouping with people you know is nullified by this system and it takes you longer to get into BG's most people don't bother queueing as groups very often these days, especially full pre-made groups.

[Fordel]

Next dumb questions:

- Why do they drop you into groups in the BG's?  Noone heals.  Noone ever buffs.  There's no way to coordinate group action in a pug. 

- Can you queue for a BG as a group?  If yes, doesn't that give one side a HUGE advantage?

Plenty of people Buff and Heal and Coordinate. I would argue most people do, just many are inept at it. "Thanks for giving the warlocks blessing of might sir!"


Most people who queue as a group are 5 or less, notably you'll see a LOT of 2-3 man 'teams' working together in smaller BGs and yes, they can pretty much sway the entire battle.

I watched a WSG where on our side, a 3 man arena team basically took on the entirety of the horde team on their own the entire match. They asked us to simply defend our own flag at the start, that they would get the horde one. We won 3-0 in roughly 10 minutes. Most of that was simple travel time.



But the real reason they auto group you, is because it took 10 mins at the start of every AV to make sure everyone was in the same fucking raid, to the point where people just made Mods that auto invited everyone in AV. If there was more then one auto-inviter, the mods would be able to communicate with each other and sort themselves out.

[Merusk]

But the real reason they auto group you, is because it took 10 mins at the start of every AV to make sure everyone was in the same fucking raid, to the point where people just made Mods that auto invited everyone in AV. If there was more then one auto-inviter, the mods would be able to communicate with each other and sort themselves out.

This, and to help the poor sots who'd get the extra slots of a premade BG group that only had 8/10 or 12/15.  You'd run around the whole time getting no kill credit unless you somehow managed to tag an enemy player first.   There was also the inverse of this.. the 2-4 players who'd run around tagging enemy players and letting the rest of the group kill so the tagging group would get max honor.

[K9]

Plenty of people Buff and Heal and Coordinate. I would argue most people do, just many are inept at it. "Thanks for giving the warlocks blessing of might sir!"


Most people who queue as a group are 5 or less, notably you'll see a LOT of 2-3 man 'teams' working together in smaller BGs and yes, they can pretty much sway the entire battle.

I watched a WSG where on our side, a 3 man arena team basically took on the entirety of the horde team on their own the entire match. They asked us to simply defend our own flag at the start, that they would get the horde one. We won 3-0 in roughly 10 minutes. Most of that was simple travel time.

BGing in a duo or trio with a healer + DPS is really a ton of fun. Against the uncoordinated horde its scary how much more effective you can be. As fordel says, a coordinated 3s Arena team can more or less win WSG or AB or EoTS for you. People generally buff at the start of BGs; but given the mana cost of buffs; even with the free-buff-after-rezz period, I can rarely afford or be bothered to rebuff people. Buffing a bunch of ungrateful people then having to drink for 30s isn't maximising my enjoyment.

Generally the only buffs you really want are Fortitude and Kings; so find yourself a priest or paladin buddy who wants to run BGs with you.

Blizzard have implemented some voodoo algorithm that attempts to match premades vs other premades. This only really seems to kick in for larger teams; and pairs and trios are generally mixed in with the randoms. This was done because for the longest time you would have PvP and Raid guilds that would fill a BD as a premade; and really no PuG would ever beat them. It does give you a massive advantage to be coordinated, but Blizz have made quite a lot of effort to balance that advantage out bu forcing premades to face other premades.

[Sheepherder]

People generally buff at the start of BGs; but given the mana cost of buffs; even with the free-buff-after-rezz period, I can rarely afford or be bothered to rebuff people. Buffing a bunch of ungrateful people then having to drink for 30s isn't maximising my enjoyment.

I've always wondered why they don't have NPC's auto-cast all the buffs when you zone-in/rez.  It's not like they still subscribe to the notion that you bring the pally exclusively for his buffs anymore.

[Fordel]

I rebuff people who defend nodes with me. I also rebuff people who rez at the node I am defending if business is slow.


It's the beauty of MotW, it's universal!

[Nebu]

Generally the only buffs you really want are Fortitude and Kings; so find yourself a priest or paladin buddy who wants to run BGs with you.

If I had competent friends to play with, I wouldn't be troubling you guys with so many questions.  I miss having my set 8 man as I did in DAoC.  Being a lone adult in WoW is really taking the fun out of gaming.  It's incredibly tough to find mature adults, let alone adults willing to take a chance on a new addition to their guild.  I'm trying to stay with it, but every night I'm finding myself quitting earlier.  

I appreciate the help you've all given me.  You've been generous with the advice. 

[Jayce]

 It's incredibly tough to find mature adults, let alone adults willing to take a chance on a new addition to their guild.

This.  I've been looking on my server for this but haven't found it yet.  I think the only way will just be to join random guilds who claim to be mature till one sticks.  Or form my own 

[Nebu]

This.  I've been looking on my server for this but haven't found it yet.  I think the only way will just be to join random guilds who claim to be mature till one sticks.  Or form my own 

If you create a guild, send me a PM here.  I will happily start over if I have someone to play with. 

[Hindenburg]

If alliance, just pay the 25 and transfer to doomhammer, Ingmar and Sojfn are too nice to turn people away 

[Nebu]

If alliance, just pay the 25 and transfer to doomhammer, Ingmar and Sojfn are too nice to turn people away 

I guess I'm missing the humor here.

[Fordel]

If alliance, just pay the 25 and transfer to doomhammer, Ingmar and Sojfn are too nice to turn people away 

I guess I'm missing the humor here.

Like half the F13 WoW players that post here have ended up in our little guild. Even Itto was let in 

[Selby]

I guess I'm missing the humor here.

Yeah, a good chunk of f13 people plan on that server.

[Rasix]

I may say hi when the expansion hits to try the newbie worgen zone.  Until then, I think I can safely avoid the temptation to play on the Alliance side.

Come back to Shu'Halo, Neb. I need more people to bug while I hide from the server. 

[Hindenburg]

I guess I'm missing the humor here.

There's no humor, they're an extremely nice bunch, and you'd fit in perfectly. Just remember to avoid Zam like the plague.

[Lantien]

Rasix, I'm still bummed you jumped servers.   Although to be fair, my guild quit a few years back, then re-subbed right before WOTLK kicked in; we re-rolled and went Horde on a PVP server, which has been an iinteresting experience.

Best of all, looks like Broken went back to Shadowsong a while back, and re-rolled Alliance.  Dunno if they're still a force to be reckoned with, or what.

I may say hi when the expansion hits to try the newbie worgen zone.  Until then, I think I can safely avoid the temptation to play on the Alliance side.

Come back to Shu'Halo, Neb. I need more people to bug while I hide from the server. 

As for PVP tips, I roll a Warlock.  I also am incredibly bad at PVP.  I die a lot.  That being said, I still like doing it, on the off chance I actually learn something someday.

[Nebu]

If it's an invitation, I'll come.  I'm happy to play any toon that will let me see the end game 5 and 10 man content.  I doubt transferring my hunter over will help much and I closed my other account with the shammy, mage, rogue, warrior, etc on it.  

Otherwise I'll just go back to bugging Rasix.

[Rasix]

Rasix, I'm still bummed you jumped servers.   Although to be fair, my guild quit a few years back, then re-subbed right before WOTLK kicked in; we re-rolled and went Horde on a PVP server, which has been an iinteresting experience.

Best of all, looks like Broken went back to Shadowsong a while back, and re-rolled Alliance.  Dunno if they're still a force to be reckoned with, or what.

The choice to go to Shu'Halo was made purely to avoid queues with the new expansion.  With Broken gone off to Black Dragonflight (which kicked their asses, told them it was a bad idea), it wasn't a tough decision.  From the looks of guildprogress.com, Ulduar broke them again.  Amazing that Defiance (looks like they're dying too) and other guilds I recognize are still around.

Killing or getting killed by your warrior was always fun. Don't really miss the server though, lots of dickheads Horde side.

People looking to just hang out horde side are always welcome to my guild's awesome tabbard.  I don't do much, however. 

[Jayce]

This.  I've been looking on my server for this but haven't found it yet.  I think the only way will just be to join random guilds who claim to be mature till one sticks.  Or form my own 

If you create a guild, send me a PM here.  I will happily start over if I have someone to play with. 

I'll never realistically do it, at least until my kids get older and I have time to administrate a guild, though it's sort of a long term goal of mine.

I'm more likely to turn up on Doomhammer one day if the people I supposedly play with now get bored and wander off, which sometimes happens 

[Sjofn]

If it's an invitation, I'll come.  I'm happy to play any toon that will let me see the end game 5 and 10 man content.  I doubt transferring my hunter over will help much and I closed my other account with the shammy, mage, rogue, warrior, etc on it.  

Otherwise I'll just go back to bugging Rasix.

Oh, sure, come on over! Play what you like or make a new character, it doesn't really matter, although we're pretty thin in the lowbie ranks.

Itto is lying, though, we're totally mean. Raar! Mean!

[sickrubik]

Sjofn hits me.

[kildorn]

We once spent two hours making fun of a guildie's name. We're total dicks.

[kildorn]

Sjofn hits me.

All women hit.

[Fordel]

If it's an invitation, I'll come.  I'm happy to play any toon that will let me see the end game 5 and 10 man content.  I doubt transferring my hunter over will help much and I closed my other account with the shammy, mage, rogue, warrior, etc on it.  

Otherwise I'll just go back to bugging Rasix.

Oh, sure, come on over! Play what you like or make a new character, it doesn't really matter, although we're pretty thin in the lowbie ranks.

Itto is lying, though, we're totally mean. Raar! Mean!

I'm sure he can catch up to Lantyssa and group with her for like, 3 hours before passing her!

[Lantien]

Rasix, I'm still bummed you jumped servers.   Although to be fair, my guild quit a few years back, then re-subbed right before WOTLK kicked in; we re-rolled and went Horde on a PVP server, which has been an iinteresting experience.

Best of all, looks like Broken went back to Shadowsong a while back, and re-rolled Alliance.  Dunno if they're still a force to be reckoned with, or what.

The choice to go to Shu'Halo was made purely to avoid queues with the new expansion.  With Broken gone off to Black Dragonflight (which kicked their asses, told them it was a bad idea), it wasn't a tough decision.  From the looks of guildprogress.com, Ulduar broke them again.  Amazing that Defiance (looks like they're dying too) and other guilds I recognize are still around.

Killing or getting killed by your warrior was always fun. Don't really miss the server though, lots of dickheads Horde side.

People looking to just hang out horde side are always welcome to my guild's awesome tabbard.  I don't do much, however. 

Yeah, what was the deal with the Black Dragonflight re-roll?  By the time that had come about, I had quit for a few months. My guild now is extremely casual and plate-filled.  My Warlock does well gearing up  , but we have basically no caster buffs.  We're definitely on the low-end of progression though, which is just fine with my erratic play hours.

I seem to recall not really ever killing you with my warrior.  I vaguely remember madly charging you, then realizing that healers/support where all the way behind me, to my chagrin.  I don't really miss the old server too much either; PVP servers tend to be a bit more pleasant /active; although I'm interested to see how that evolves when Cataclysm comes out.  I have to imagine having plenty of 80s within flying distance + plenty of re-rolls = camping galore.

[WindupAtheist]

That was the first thing my buddy said when I described the expansion to him. New leveling content + flying in old word + PVP server = newbageddon.

[Rasix]

Yeah, what was the deal with the Black Dragonflight re-roll? 

It was the first PVE->PVP transfer. Broken was having internal issues and their solutions to it eventually led to the dissolution.  First we got more hardcore (mandatory attendance for progression, new loot restrictions based on attendance), which pissed people off when Twin Emps kept squashing us.  AQ40 broke us pretty hard.  Then the brain trust running the show decided a server transfer would fix everything, because moving problems to a new location magically makes them go away.  Grim, Burk, and others thought they were pretty hardcore and the PVP server would be no big deal.  Heh, wrong.   

I seem to recall not really ever killing you with my warrior.  I vaguely remember madly charging you, then realizing that healers/support where all the way behind me, to my chagrin. 

Yah, I don't think you managed to kill my shaman, but in your defense I was probably one of the best equipped on the server outside of Samuseva (retarded Hawaiian ftl) or Massy.  You squashed my rogue quite a few times though. 

[WindupAtheist]

So I'm throwing together a holy pally PVP set, starting with the level 78 crafted blue set for that spec. What are some good weapons/shields to go with it? Any guides on this sorta stuff? What kind of enchants do I want? I've never played a casty spec before.

[Rasix]

So I'm throwing together a holy pally PVP set, starting with the level 78 crafted blue set for that spec. What are some good weapons/shields to go with it? Any guides on this sorta stuff? What kind of enchants do I want? I've never played a casty spec before.

Titansteel guardian would probably be a perfect mace for you.

[Kail]

So I'm throwing together a holy pally PVP set, starting with the level 78 crafted blue set for that spec. What are some good weapons/shields to go with it? Any guides on this sorta stuff? What kind of enchants do I want? I've never played a casty spec before.

Been a while for me, but as far as I can recall, the big stats you'll be looking for as a pally are int (to increase your return on Divine Plea) and crit (to work with the Illumination talent).  After that, spellpower or haste.  Mp5 is meh, spirit is garbage.

There's a solid sword you can get from the Tournament, if you don't mind jousting.  Shields, I forget... I know there's one on the badge vendor, other than that, I don't know.

[Lantien]

Weapon options (in no particular order):

• (If you're patient): War Mace of Unrequited Love:  Epic, found in the Heroic Nexus final boss loot.  Intellect means bigger mana pool and scales some with Spellpower.  408 Spellpower means powerful heals.  Mana/5 sec is actually worth keeping an eye on now, due to Illumination being nerfed.
  
  
• (If you're an alt): The Blessed Hammer of Grace: Heirloom item, purchasable for Stone Keeper's Shards.  Stamina means slightly mrore surviability, not as much spell power, has resilience (which you do want to have some of now, to improve your surviability).  It's probably not as strong as the War Mace raw stats wise, but if you have an 80 alt that has a lot of Stone Keeper's shards, it's a very quick and easy weapon to have right off the bat.
  
  
• (If you're patient part II): Mariel's Sorrow: Trumps the War Mace of Unrequited Love across the board.  Only found in Heroic TOC 5-man. Due to the fact that Heroic TOC is slightly harder to finish than Heroic Nexus, there's a caveat here.
  
  
• (If you know a miner/blacksmith): Titansteel Guardian No int, but Crit strike and stamina and SP. Takes 6 Saronite Bars, 2 Frozen Orbs, and 6 Titansteel Bars. Due to the fact that Titanium is currently in high demand to Jewelcrafters, Titansteel bars may be slightly more out of reach cash wise than before.  If however, you have the mats lying around and you know someone who can make it, then it's a quick epic.
  
  
• (If you like jousting!): Blade of the Keening Banshee Stamina and Intellect are nice, decent-ish SP. Hit Rating is somewhat useful, because you occasionally want to hit your opponent with something (Hammer of Wrath, Judgements, etc etc).
  
  
• Totally totally boned: Gavel of the Brewing Storm. Doesn't have the raw Spell Power of the other items, but all you need to be is Revered with the Wyrmrest Accord.

In terms of what stats are more important in a PVP capacity, I honestly have no idea. My general suggestion is to get the Blessed Hammer of Grace early if you have an alt that PVPs a lot.  Then Shoot for either the Titansteel Guardian or the Blade of the Keening Banshee depending on what you can get your hands on faster, Titansteel Bars/Frozen Orbs or Crusader Seals.  Then once you're pretty good at grinding in 5 mans, do H TOC 5 man until your eyes bleed for the Mariel's Sorrow.

Shields:

Eh, shields aren't really easy to get your hands on.  Much like weapons, you're not going to get your hands on any of the PVP variety unless you Arena. 

The options here are even less if you're not willing to just do a lot of 5 man/Raid for emblems.

1 (If you're rich): Zom's Crackling Bulwark, BOE drop.
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44313#dropped-by

2 (If you're a miner/BS): Saronite Protector
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41117

3 (All else fails): Warsong Stormshield (Horde) or Lordaeron's Resolve (Alliance):  Picked up by getting revered with the Horde Expedition/Alliance Vanguard. http://www.wowhead.com/?item=38463

Honestly, save your badges for a shield. As you can see, incredibly slim pickings to work with. http://www.wowhead.com/?items=4.6&filter=qu=3:4;minrl=73;cr=123:79;crs=1:3;crv=1:0#0-2+1