Cataclysm

[Morfiend]

Other than execute my arms does not seem to be doing more than 7ish k on mortal strikes and overpowers on average. Just does not seem to have the snap damage needed to take any body out even though over time I appear very competitive damage wise. Oh well patch prior to an expansion is always a silly time balance wise.

Like I said, it was mostly Fury Warriors that where blowing me up. Maybe have a look in that direction?

[Sheepherder]

Yes, this is now my thing, deal with it.

Tried it out, didya?

Howling blast is soooooo getting nerfed. 

I'm talking about how everyone is now using rogue/shaman/hunter weapons.

[Shrike]

They always did. Nothing new there--except shaman still can't use swords.

I suppose claws are still sort of exclusive, though everyone I talk to hates them. At least the latest round of art on them wasn't completely asinine.

The big question will be how will itemization on 1handers be in Cataclysm--especially now that fury is back in the hunt for 1hander drops. They've only recently--ICC on--unfucked 1hander drop rates.

[Sheepherder]

Prot warrior used to use fast weapons exclusively.
Prot paladin used to be able to use a fast weapon with minimal penalty.
Fury warrior used to use two-handers exclusively.
Frost DK's used to use two-handers exclusively prior to 3.3(?)

[Shrike]

PvP protection warriors used slow 1handers--devastate spam.
PvP protection paladins used slow 1handers--HotR, well not spam, but it was optimal.
Fury used them in vanilla, will use them in Cataclysm (if inclined).
Frost DKs have used them since they've had DW (dps tends to slow/slow, tank was fast/slow).

Hopefully, Cataclysm itemization will reflect this popularity. I'd like to see tanks stats on them just go away, and I suspect they largely will.

[Sheepherder]

Dude, that's really splitting hairs.  I'd be surprised if everyone meeting the description you've listed combined amounted to more than a percent of the people who play this game prior to 4.0.  Even DW Frost has always been exceedingly rare, because until 3.3 there was no reason to spec that way, and there have never been weapons which support the play style.  Which is kind of the fucking problem.

Also, the bit about HotR is wrong.  And the fury warrior bit is irrelevant, because this isn't TBC and I'm not playing in 81+ instances.

[Shrike]

Sure it is, but there's always been a demand for 1handers across a variety of classes.

Ever since frost got ToT, there's been a very strong demand for slow 1handers for DKs. Hell, even before that they were vacuuming them up, just because they could--despite the fact there was no reason to DW. I know, since I fought with them over weapons until ICC. DW frost tanks tended to go slow for threat. Slow/slow was best threat. If you needed more avoidance, then you went fast MH, slow OH. You could go fast/fast, but threat generation got iffy due to dps loss. I don't recall them being rare. Our guild had two frost tanks through much of ICC. They were a dime-a-dozen in fail PuGs. So much so they were a cliche.

The HotR part was wrong, I was stuck on damage, when it was actually average dps. Thing was, in the 79 bracket all the available weapons with high dps tended to be slow--and that's where I was. Ymiron's Blade was the only thing I ever saw with 120dps before 80--it was 2.6 spd (that puppy hit hard in the BGs, too!). It was back to fast at 80 because of reckoning, availiability, tanking stats, and vengeance. Seal damage was sorta/kinda dependent on weapon speed, but it was a minor factor.

In Cataclysm, things stay the same for frost and enhance. It changes for everyone else. Except maybe hunters, who'll just scavenge for stats like always.

[Morfiend]

Don't forget rogues. They have always wanted Slow/fast one-handers.

[WindupAtheist]

I'm just really not digging the new paladin mechanics at all. I think I might skip the expansion for the time being. My friend only gets a couple of hours per week to play WoW, and at least half of what we do is aimless running around that doesn't earn XP anyway, so I can stay 80 and still be able to run her newbie DK anywhere she might want to go with ease.

How does the sub-cap PVP bracketing work? Will an 80 with no Cata be in the same bracket as people in the seventies, or the bracket with all the 81+ people? Because being the only guy with epics and resilience in a room full of seventy-somethings in greens could be amusing.

[Morfiend]

I'm just really not digging the new paladin mechanics at all. I think I might skip the expansion for the time being.

I'm not ether. The ramp up time and RNG reliance is just not really "fun". That seems to be what a lot of the players from the beta where saying too. Ret is just not fun. I agree. I think I might switch to my DK as my main, cause I am really having fun with the new rune mechanics.

[Soulflame]

Aren't paladins the most overpopulated class anyway?  Maybe Blizzard is trying to thin out paladin players.

[Ginaz]

I actually like the paladin changes, at least when it comes to tanking.  I can still do the aoe thing paladins were known for when it came to tanking (HotR, AS, Consecrate, HW) while doing significantly more dps.  I did a HFoS last night and my dps was around 3.5k, which is a hellva lot more than before, and I ended up having the highest dps and total damage in the group.  Having your Hammer of Wrath crit for over 12k and critting for over 10k after building up 3 holy powers is very nice.  From what I've heard, holy specced paladins seem to be enjoying the changes too, while ret pallys seem to have gotten the short end of the stick for now.  Maybe things will balance out once we get our new skills and more talent points.

On a side note, I got the headless horseman's mount last night.  Squeeee!!!

[dd0029]

How does the sub-cap PVP bracketing work? Will an 80 with no Cata be in the same bracket as people in the seventies, or the bracket with all the 81+ people? Because being the only guy with epics and resilience in a room full of seventy-somethings in greens could be amusing.

Not sure yet on the sub 85 bracket, but I imagine it will work how it currently does for 70.  They will probably extend the AV bracket to 71-80 and you will be in the 80-84 bracket for WSG/AB/EotS and the godforsaken Isle and Strand.  I doubt you will have access to the new BGs as they probably require a Cataclysm subscription, though I may be wrong.  However, you will be able to grind up a full wrathfull set and I imagine that will still be competative in the 80-84 bracket.  I know the full Brutal Gladiator geared I ran across in the 70-79 bracket were often really strong even with the level disparity.  You will most probably absolutely dominate AV.

[Morfiend]

I actually like the paladin changes, at least when it comes to tanking.

I'm pretty sure WUA is a Ret pally if recall correctly, which is also what I play (played?), so I slanted my comment to that.

[WindupAtheist]

Yep, I should have said ret paladin in particular. It's just... lame now. I haven't even done any PVP on it yet, so it's not a "wah I'm gettin' owned" complaint. It just feels lame.

You will most probably absolutely dominate AV.

I wouldn't stay subbed for this alone, but as a side-thing to do now and then since the account is up anyway? Yes please. Between this and all the 1-60 content I'll get for free, who needs the expansion?

[Morfiend]

Yep, I should have said ret paladin in particular. It's just... lame now. I haven't even done any PVP on it yet, so it's not a "wah I'm gettin' owned" complaint. It just feels lame.

You will most probably absolutely dominate AV.

I wouldn't stay subbed for this alone, but as a side-thing to do now and then since the account is up anyway? Yes please. Between this and all the 1-60 content I'll get for free, who needs the expansion?

Hate to break it to you. Ret in PVP is much worse than PVE. I feel fine in PVE with the exception of having our AE abilities neutered. In PVP the ramp up time is just horrible. Ranged has so many ways of keeping you at range that you can never properly ramp up your damage. Basically you pop wings and HoW every 2 minutes.

[WindupAtheist]

Yeah, but I'll be 80 in full PVP epics and they'll be 76 in dungeon blues and quest greens or whatever. 

Not to piss on your parade, but they're gong to change the topography pretty severely in 2 months, so she won't be able to remember /recognise much of anything after that... :/

And just to get to this post a week late because I missed it, that's fine. Two months is plenty of time to finish sightseeing the old world even at just a few hours per week, and the 60-80 game isn't really changing at all.

[Sheepherder]

81+ WUA would get his shit wrecked.  He'd set foot in AB and an 84 lock with 80k health would peer into his soul with rape eyes.

In AV the tables would turn.

[Shrike]

I'm just really not digging the new paladin mechanics at all. I think I might skip the expansion for the time being. My friend only gets a couple of hours per week to play WoW, and at least half of what we do is aimless running around that doesn't earn XP anyway, so I can stay 80 and still be able to run her newbie DK anywhere she might want to go with ease.

How does the sub-cap PVP bracketing work? Will an 80 with no Cata be in the same bracket as people in the seventies, or the bracket with all the 81+ people? Because being the only guy with epics and resilience in a room full of seventy-somethings in greens could be amusing.

I really need to look at paladins. Just don't have the energy for it right now though.

Bracket PvP will probably be 80-84, then 85. 85s might get lumped in with the lowers, but I kinda doubt it. My guess would be you'd do OK initally, but we don't know what sort of tradeskill gear will appear at 83-84, where the IL gets brutal. My guess is that you'd get handled after a couple of months at 80 with everyone else leveling up. That's how it was in the 79 bracket in this last expansion. My DK saw a lot of people in TBC S2/3 gear when she was 78 and she pretty much crushed them in savage saronite.

[Sheepherder]

The ramp up time on the paladin rotation is 4.5 - 9 seconds long and a good chunk is due to abilities with a 40% chance to proc a charge.

[Morfiend]

The ramp up time on the paladin rotation is 4.5 - 9 seconds long and a good chunk is due to abilities with a 40% chance to proc a charge.

Exactly. 9 seconds in PVP to stick to someone, especially a range dps is an eternity. And thats just to get one big hit, which with resilience, isnt going to be a killing blow by far. And you can easily not get a proc, and that pushes it to 14 seconds. Not to mention Seal of Truth is the only worthwhile seal to use, and that also has a pretty big ramp up time.

[Simond]

New login screen! Goodbye, incredbly annoying and loud roaring dragon and hello....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYFskTHpJ3c

...incredibly annoying and loud roaring dragon. 

[Ironwood]

Lame.

[Lantyssa]

Well shit, I've got to get this now after seeing that.

[Simond]

Worgen cinematic/machininima: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwlfJmuY1GI
Gilneans are such snappy dressers.

[dd0029]

Because the BC gearing progression was awesome, we're going back to it.

*Normal Dungeons/Crafting/Questing to get full set of 85 blues (non-heroic) to do Heroic dungeons.
*Heroic dungeons to get full set of 85 Heroic blues to do Normal mode raids.
*Normal raids to get full set of 85 epics (non-heroic) to do Heroic mode raids."

Source

As it is, there is a shortage of tanks for heroics.  Now they plan to split them between two tiers and add in the need for CC?  So long RDF, you were a good friend.

[Azuredream]

Once most people are in epics you'll probably just be able to jump into heroics when you ding 85 if you're DPS.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I think the addition of "heroic" blues is retarded.

[K9]

I don't think this really makes a massive difference, all that changes is the colour of the text of the items you are wearing. WoTLK overdid the easy access to epics a little, so a lot of heroic gear (bar trinkets) was sell or shard even around launch. This doesn't cripple the progression curce, it just evens it out. I imagine too that with the changes to tanking (defense gone etc) getting tanks for the normal dungeons will be a lot easier through RDF, and I suspect that there will be craftable and quested tank pieces too. Defense cap was always the barrier to entry that was the biggest problem.

[Rasix]

I knew I wasn't worthy of epics.

Fucking clownshoes.

[Rendakor]

Removing defense will just make it easier for poorly geared tanks to queue up and think they can handle content.

This is a change that does very little except try to restore some value to the color purple. One positive side effect is that it will allow them to normalize loot tables; it was always silly trying to remember who dropped what in which version. Ex: Loken dropped a tank trinket in Reg HoL, but not heroic. 2nd boss of AN had one in heroic, but not normal.

Fake edit: lots of rage here over epics, I don't get it. If they went through in WotLK and changed the color of everything that dropped in a 5 man from blue to purple, would anything change for anyone except the [Epic] achievement? Who cares what rarity their gear is?

[Typhon]

Removing defense will just make it easier for poorly geared tanks to queue up and think they can handle content.

This is a change that does very little except try to restore some value to the color purple. One positive side effect is that it will allow them to normalize loot tables; it was always silly trying to remember who dropped what in which version. Ex: Loken dropped a tank trinket in Reg HoL, but not heroic. 2nd boss of AN had one in heroic, but not normal.

Fake edit: lots of rage here over epics, I don't get it. If they went through in WotLK and changed the color of everything that dropped in a 5 man from blue to purple, would anything change for anyone except the [Epic] achievement? Who cares what rarity their gear is?

I thought that the item budget for an item was dependent upon the iLevel and rarity of the item.  If my understanding is correct, I care.

[dd0029]

I like loot does not bother me, its the grind and grind again to grind and grind again.  That only works well at the beginning of the expansion cycle as proven by BC.  By the middle and through to the bitter end, there are not enough people at the beginning of the grind to support it.  It breaks down and when that happens the end breaks down because there are not fresh new people coming in to fill in holes as people burn out on the grind and grind again.  And with the new guild reputation mechanics, if rep grinding is as it has been, there may be less willingness for guild hopping. 

They may complain about the ease of today's raids and the ease of getting good gear, but that has supported the strongest raiding community to date.  The ease of gearing means that, even with the expansion just over a month away, more and more people are still raiding.  At this point in vanilla and BC, raiding had pretty much ground to a halt because there were not enough people in the pipeline to maintain it.  Everyone was PvP'ing because that was the only viable option. 

I am worried that they are looking backwards with decidedly rose colored glasses.

[K9]

I always figured that badge item inflation managed to bring people up to speed; you certainly don't need to progress through Naxx->Ulduar->TOC before doing ICC nowadays, and the badge item model is a lot better now than it was in TBC.

[Rendakor]

It's as K9 says. They've built that progression in automatically with the new Justice/Valor points system. At launch you'll use JP for blue stuff and VP for epic stuff (T11 and equivalent). When they release the next content patch (4.1) the launch-era VP stuff will be converted to JP, with new T12 stuff to buy with VP.

I like loot does not bother me, its the grind and grind again to grind and grind again.  That only works well at the beginning of the expansion cycle as proven by BC.  By the middle and through to the bitter end, there are not enough people at the beginning of the grind to support it.  It breaks down and when that happens the end breaks down because there are not fresh new people coming in to fill in holes as people burn out on the grind and grind again.  And with the new guild reputation mechanics, if rep grinding is as it has been, there may be less willingness for guild hopping. 

If people are still running WotLK heroics now, I don't think you have to worry about them not doing so in Cata.