Cataclysm

[Paelos]

Did any of you ever play Everquest

No. 

[Ingmar]

lolmetzen

That's really all you need to know.

[Lakov_Sanite]

WoW storytelling is not the best but it's really not as bad as people want to say it is.  All this lol lore bs is just players getting attached to their characters.  What do I mean by this? Blood elves.

Now, you may not think blood elves joining the horde was a good idea, you may even say it was dumb from a lore stand point but why? There are plenty of reasons for and against the blood elves joining the horde but in the end a plausible enough set of reasons were given. Yet people still disliked them and point to 'lol lore' as the excuse. I believe this is because most horde players felt so attached to their characters and identify with what 'they' believed to be horde that they lashed out against the idea of elves.

No I won't get into draenei because I genuinely think that could have been done better but I believe that most of all this lore bashing really translates into "but that's not how ~I~ would have done it" instead of actually finding great faults in the storylines.

In short it's a fucking video game, not the Iliad

[Zetor]

Late to the party, but...

Pre-WotLK event had throwaway gear too.

Eh, I disagree. The blood prince in karazhan had a single item in his drop table (a 2h axe with the unique "level70 elite tauren chieftain guitarist" skin that makes you do guitar riffs when you "activate" it) along with a minipet; the quest reward was the "monster slaying kit" that was useless even at level 70, but had some amusing "six demon bag" style novelty value. I still have all of these items on my shaman and the guitar-axe is pretty  !

The cataclysm event gives... what, some ilevel251 items (probably just recolored stuff at that; heck, like half of the gear in that list is not even visible) that you will replace in the first leveling zone?

[Ingmar]

Late to the party, but...

Pre-WotLK event had throwaway gear too.

Eh, I disagree. The blood prince in karazhan had a single item in his drop table (a 2h axe with the unique "level70 elite tauren chieftain guitarist" skin that makes you do guitar riffs when you "activate" it) along with a minipet; the quest reward was the "monster slaying kit" that was useless even at level 70, but had some amusing "six demon bag" style novelty value. I still have all of these items on my shaman and the guitar-axe is pretty  !

The cataclysm event gives... what, some ilevel251 items (probably just recolored stuff at that; heck, like half of the gear in that list is not even visible) that you will replace in the first leveling zone?

There were also the undead slaying armor sets from the revamped undead invasion part of the event - 4 piece armor sets for every armor type, ilvl 115 (Kara-level) as I recall.

[Zetor]

Yeah, I ignored that part completely (that wasn't even new iirc, they did something similar at level 60). My point is, the drops/rewards from the karazhan dude were anything but throwaway. If anything, the main problem was that only one person could get the axe per week and the entire event only lasted for a few weeks...

edit: more importantly, the zombie invasion was freaking hilarious! I remember teaming up with old horde nemeses (this was before you could create opposite-side characters on pvp servers) and beating the crap out of all the high-profile people from our server, on both horde and alliance

[Lakov_Sanite]

"monster slaying kit"

I still have it.  It can randomly throw an axe,dagger,holy water or cross. 

[Ingmar]

Yeah, I ignored that part completely (that wasn't even new iirc, they did something similar at level 60). My point is, the drops/rewards from the karazhan dude were anything but throwaway. If anything, the main problem was that only one person could get the axe per week and the entire event only lasted for a few weeks...

edit: more importantly, the zombie invasion was freaking hilarious! I remember teaming up with old horde nemeses (this was before you could create opposite-side characters on pvp servers) and beating the crap out of all the high-profile people from our server, on both horde and alliance

While that's fine, the armor sets were what I had in mind when I made the statement in the first place.

[Sjofn]

In short it's a fucking video game, not the Iliad

Sure, but most of the time it's like they're not even trying. You bring up the blood elves. While I did think that was a bit of a shoehorn, that doesn't hold a fucking candle to the draenei. Metzen fucked up his own lore because he was too fucking lazy to check if he had ever written anything about them before. They are SO wtfrandom, they apparently can't even think of anything to do with them in Cataclysm. They have nothing new, no real stake in anything at all in Cataclysm, making them EVEN MORE "wtf" than they were. At least the Blood Elves have their antiquing club.

The problem I have is not so much the lore is bad (while it often is) but it's lazy. When you make a gajillion dollars, surely you can hire a couple of people to write DECENT lore to cover your gameplay decisions instead of, "lol I forgot" or "lol it just sounds cooler."

[WindupAtheist]

The whole reason we're getting worgen is because someone at a Blizzcon or something a few years ago asked Metzen what was up with Gilneas, and he was like "Uh, who? Oh yeah! I forgot they exist!"

[Fordel]

In short it's a fucking video game, not the Iliad

Sure, but most of the time it's like they're not even trying. You bring up the blood elves. While I did think that was a bit of a shoehorn, that doesn't hold a fucking candle to the draenei. Metzen fucked up his own lore because he was too fucking lazy to check if he had ever written anything about them before. They are SO wtfrandom, they apparently can't even think of anything to do with them in Cataclysm. They have nothing new, no real stake in anything at all in Cataclysm, making them EVEN MORE "wtf" than they were. At least the Blood Elves have their antiquing club.

The problem I have is not so much the lore is bad (while it often is) but it's lazy. When you make a gajillion dollars, surely you can hire a couple of people to write DECENT lore to cover your gameplay decisions instead of, "lol I forgot" or "lol it just sounds cooler."

In the last few builds, there's a few quests about Draenei/Broken in the swamp of sorrows now! Their shitty little broken town has actual buildings finally too! It's like, 3 or 4 extra quests compared to the current mini hub.

The Draenei town in Ashenvale is still the same though :(

[Simond]

The whole reason we're getting worgen is because someone at a Blizzcon or something a few years ago asked Metzen what was up with Gilneas, and he was like "Uh, who? Oh yeah! I forgot they exist!"

To be fair, Blizzard's "Sure, why not" when someone came up with the whole "Gilneas is still isolated because they're all worgen" thing was canny.

[SurfD]

The whole reason we're getting worgen is because someone at a Blizzcon or something a few years ago asked Metzen what was up with Gilneas, and he was like "Uh, who? Oh yeah! I forgot they exist!"

To be fair, Blizzard's "Sure, why not" when someone came up with the whole "Gilneas is still isolated because they're all worgen" thing was canny.

I wouldnt be too sure about that.  Remember, there was that List of Leaked Expantion Zones that someone threw up online like 4+ years ago that has, even up to Lich King, managed to be almost 90% accurate.  The WoW team defiantely seems to have had a VERY long reaching plan for where they want to take the game, and while some of it may have changed or they may have tweaked certain aspects of their plan, I somehow doubt that Gilneas and the Worgen thing was just a spur of the moment Metzen idea.

[Chimpy]

It could have been a spur of the moment Metzen idea 5 years ago that they decided to shelve.

Hell, I remember when everyone was fucking waiting for the Emerald Dream when the world dragons got put in, only to have fucking Ahn'Qiraj put in instead and the Emerald Dream being relegated to "probably never going to do anything with this, dragons and such are boring."

[Ratman_tf]

Ner'Zhul.

/nerd

I was hoping that NerZhul would play some kind of part in the Wrath storyline. I also hoped that I'd get to lick tequila off of supermodels this weekend.

[SurfD]

Ner'Zhul.

/nerd

I was hoping that NerZhul would play some kind of part in the Wrath storyline. I also hoped that I'd get to lick tequila off of supermodels this weekend.

Much the same way people were hopeing that Sylvanas / Jaina would have more of a role to play in ICC then a throw away run for their lives in the 5 man dungeon chain?

[Sjofn]

Fuck those two, what about Mal'ganis? :(

[Rendakor]

Mal'Ganis at least had an entire quest chain aside from his cameo in CoT: CoS.

[Sjofn]

Yes, and it ends in him saying YOU'LL NEED ME, BITCHES!!!!!!!

And then he disappears.

I would also argue stupid Jaina and stupid Sylvannas got plenty of pre-ICC bullshit with the Undercity whatnot. Although at least you don't have to hear Mal'ganis burst into tears because he's just so HAPPY King Chin wasn't a dickbag for a second.

[DraconianOne]

Hell, I remember when everyone was fucking waiting for the Emerald Dream when the world dragons got put in, only to have fucking Ahn'Qiraj put in instead and the Emerald Dream being relegated to "probably never going to do anything with this, dragons and such are boring."

And then we get Wrath where we have 3, 4, 5 dragon bosses in 5 different raids (6 if you include revamped Onyxia) as well as several instances that feature dragons as mobs/bosses/allies/vehicles and a whole zone that's not only about dragons but even has "dragon" in the name.

And now we're getting an expanson about the biggest, baddest dragon of them all and we've still got to kill Nozdormu because it'll turn out as a surprise to no-one that he's the leader of the Infinite Dragonflight thats been dicking around for two expansions. Then we'll have to slaughter Ysera because she'll have been driven mad in the Emerald Dream or caused it or something then we'll murder Alexstrasza because we gotta catch 'em all.

[Lakov_Sanite]

kill Nozdormu because it'll turn out as a surprise to no-one that he's the leader of the Infinite Dragonflight thats been dicking around for two expansions.

How would this make any sense at all?

[Lantyssa]

You'll have to kill Alex after Deathwing makes her his bitch.  It's the only way.  Once enslaved, you can't ever free a dragon to have a happy ending.

R.I.P. Kerri

How would this make any sense at all?

He's infinite.  So of course he has an expiration date.

[K9]

hc Chromie will be a guild breaking fight.

[Soulflame]

kill Nozdormu because it'll turn out as a surprise to no-one that he's the leader of the Infinite Dragonflight thats been dicking around for two expansions.

How would this make any sense at all?

There's a quest that underlines this.  Chromie gives it to you in Dragonblight, from Wyrmrest.  You go off and discover the leader of the Infinite Dragonflight is, in fact, Nozdormu.

[Shrike]

Well, you go and see Noz hanging around a brawl between infinite dragonflight dragons and bronze dragons. What he's actually up to is debatable, but you were sent there to find the leader of the infinites and there he is.

When you report back to Chromie, she's like, "Ummm...well...it's good he's alive and...uhhh...around...and stuff." Cue up up embarrased coughing and shifty eyes...

What it'll actually lead to is anyone's guess, but a bronze beatdown would scarcely be a surprise with past confrontations with black and blue dragonflights. Also, the titans are on the way back and since the dragons seem to have thoroughly buggered up their stewardship of Azeroth, they might have more than a little explaining to do.

[Soulflame]

It's all the fault of the Old Gods, so the dragons are in the clear!   

[Rendakor]

We won't find that out until the final boss of the dungeon, after slaughtering all the innocent dragons!

[Ingmar]

You'll have to kill Alex after Deathwing makes her his bitch.  It's the only way.  Once enslaved, you can't ever free a dragon to have a happy ending.

Mostly, although Kalecgos in Sunwell Plateau is an exception.

[WoopeeTuralyon]

You'll have to kill Alex after Deathwing makes her his bitch.  It's the only way.  Once enslaved, you can't ever free a dragon to have a happy ending.

Mostly, although Kalecgos in Sunwell Plateau is an exception.

I always feel bad for Keri when I kill her in Nex. I think the trink must be is to preempt the enslavement and rescue the dragon beforehand! Valithria Dreamwalker was on her way to being enslaved, and she was fine!

By the way, did I see the number wrong or did Alexstrasza have 139.7m hp at the end of the Wrathgate chain in Dragonblight?

[Rendakor]

Valithria was not going to be enslaved; she was going to be killed and raised.

[SurfD]

By the way, did I see the number wrong or did Alexstrasza have 139.7m hp at the end of the Wrathgate chain in Dragonblight?

Not sure, i would have to go and check.

Personally, I never really put much stock in "non killable raid boss npc" health numbers anyway.  Though sometimes you do get funny things.  Like have you ever looked at the Health values on Varian, Jaina, Tyrion, Thrall and Garrosh when they are in the bleachers inside the Trial Arena?  o.0

[Chimpy]

Ahhh to wish for the heady days of when Vael was the highest HP mob in the game with 3.5 million ish HP if he was full health.

[Sheepherder]

I wouldnt be too sure about that.  Remember, there was that List of Leaked Expantion Zones that someone threw up online like 4+ years ago that has, even up to Lich King, managed to be almost 90% accurate.

Hello everyone. I'm the OP, if you haven't noticed.

With the announcement of Cataclysm, it seems the lifespan of my list has come to its end.

It's odd how this list, which I wrote myself out of boredom on a fall morning, has taken on a life of its own.

I wrote it in September of 2007, but some swear they saw it during the WoW beta in 2004. To boot, CMs on the official WoW forums deleted this list every time it popped up - at least until this year, when they suddenly stopped caring.

Some things I predicted came to pass. Others didn't.

I was sure I'd be proven right with a Maelstrom expansion, but it seems Blizzard has combined light elements of both the Elemental Planes and Maelstrom into one expansion. Gilneas and Grim Batol are in from the Maelstrom expansion, while the four elemental planes have been introduced - some only as raid dungeons, disappointingly. Why Blizzard has reduced the Firelands to a raid and expanded Uldum into a full zone is beyond me. If you ask me, they should have followed my lead.

Back in 2006, when we were struggling to figure out what race the Alliance would be getting, I started another rumor - the Worgen rumor!


"The people of Gilneas entombed themselves in their isolated peninsula at the outbreak of the Undead Scourge, erecting the Greymane Wall to keep out the demons and walking dead of the cursed army. To this day, refugees from the ravaged villages of Lordaeron gather at it, crying for safe haven from the Forsaken that now claim Silverpine Forest as their own.

Yet it is not much better behind the wall. For agents of the crazed wizard Arugal have infiltrated the once-prosperous land and spread a dark curse among the populace. As the first tainted moon climbed into the sky, screams rendered the countryside as the inhabitants of Gilneas changed forms and became the crazed Worgen. Few retained their minds. Many became wild and bloodthirsty.

Those who remained in control of their thoughts waged a war hidden from the eyes of the rest of the world, slaying former friends and family in an effort to preserve what little life still hoped for survival. Naming themselves the Nightcry after that first terrifying moonrise, they fought until they found themselves drained of resources and the will to continue the bloody battles alone.

Unable to conceal their horrid existence from the world any longer, a new sun rises over Gilneas. The Alliance has opened its gates to the refugees and an effort is now underway to restore humanity to the Nightcry Worgen. As one of their number, you must prove yourself a capable ally to the Alliance's cause and master the powers granted to you against your will in order to free your land...no matter how much blood you must shed. "


That was me as well. I didn't try and pass that one off as fact, though. Some people just ran with it. When you write speculative lore, you might as well pass it off as fact yourself and have a bit of fun with it. Otherwise a stranger will take what you wrote and start the rumor himself.

I can't think of any way I could have hurt anyone by starting this rumor, but it's within the realm of extreme possibility, so to them I apologize. To the rest of you, I've really enjoyed watching you all debate this. Hopefully you didn't spend too many sleepless nights pondering the ramifications of this leak.

I still intend on comparing future content to my list. Cataclysm looks rather fun but the way they're glossing over the Elemental Planes, which could have been four unique regions, bothers me.

Happy trails. Maybe I'll be around more often on 'Zam' now, unless you all don't want me, in which case I will accept my exile to the official forums. I will live in a mud hut and have many sharp sticks with which to jab the trolls who come through my windows demanding I play Aion.

[Fordel]

Here is the first Cata change that REALLY made me go "well, what the fuck Blizzard?"

http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/09/26/cataclysm-beta-removes-portals-from-dalaran-and-shattrath/

[apocrypha]

WTF? One of the things I *love* about WoW atm is that you almost never have to spend 10 minutes doing nothing but travelling, and a large part of that is due to the portals.

I predict an inflationary pressure on the price of mage transportation services.