Cataclysm

[apocrypha]

Also you always get 1-3 healers out of the 6 who are barely putting in any effort, so you usually can't slack off and have to carry their asses.

I noticed this. I went in with the bare minimum gear req to queue, having never done the raids before, and came top of the healing meter. There were a couple of healers who did less than 1/3rd of the healing I did.

Clearly I was just trying too hard! 

[Zetor]

To be fair, damage in LFR is usually really low so whoever pushes their multi-target smart heal button fastest wins on the healing meters. Of course it can get more interesting... two things that come to mind are yorsahj trash when 2 groups of slimes are pulled at the same time (esp when the healers were at half mana from the previous pull / some people were dead already for unfathomable reasons) and healing the last platform + final phase of Madness if all the dps'rs graduated from Tunnelvision U.

[FieryBalrog]

I have more mana problems on some LFR madness fights than on normal madness.

[Azazel]

What bothers me most about the LFR is that the poor tanks really need to know what they're doing.  Healers heal, dps shoot, but God Forbid the tank misses a taunt or a jump into twilight.  I've played as all roles in there and it's just fucking annoying having 24 other retards, most of whom can't single target tentacles, screaming at the nub.  Hell, the Hagara fight itself is massively amusing since mobs swarm out and the fucking idiots just stand there, usually in the cold that's killing them, while the tank is supposed to run around taunting 24 mobs on a single ability with a 8 second cooldown.

But anyway.

As my Warrior LFDs it's way through the Cata levels (up to 73 now), shitty healers and cocknob DPS who pull before I've pulled then bitch about aggro are really taking their toll on my interest. Despite instant queues, I'm quite hesitant to bother playing in dungeons anymore because I've started feeling like telling half the group to go fucking DIAF since I clicked over to the second-tier dungeons. I've bailed on one group where the healer took aggro from the huntard and ran off down the hallway behind us, only to die. (and rarely healing me anyway).

[Fabricated]

I haven't jumped into LFR yet. I have good enough gear to, but I'm still rocking one blue and I am bound and determined to get rid of it before running LFR.

Also, the difference between running normal heroics and HoT heroics is hilarious. Even post nerf ZA/ZG are way the fuck harder than any of the HoT instances.

[FieryBalrog]

What bothers me most about the LFR is that the poor tanks really need to know what they're doing.  Healers heal, dps shoot, but God Forbid the tank misses a taunt or a jump into twilight.  I've played as all roles in there and it's just fucking annoying having 24 other retards, most of whom can't single target tentacles, screaming at the nub.  Hell, the Hagara fight itself is massively amusing since mobs swarm out and the fucking idiots just stand there, usually in the cold that's killing them, while the tank is supposed to run around taunting 24 mobs on a single ability with a 8 second cooldown.

But anyway.

As my Warrior LFDs it's way through the Cata levels (up to 73 now), shitty healers and cocknob DPS who pull before I've pulled then bitch about aggro are really taking their toll on my interest. Despite instant queues, I'm quite hesitant to bother playing in dungeons anymore because I've started feeling like telling half the group to go fucking DIAF since I clicked over to the second-tier dungeons. I've bailed on one group where the healer took aggro from the huntard and ran off down the hallway behind us, only to die. (and rarely healing me anyway).

I'm dungeoning through the Wrath stuff right now (level 73) and I've had the opposite experience. I don't think I've wiped yet and died maybe twice. All the groups spam aoe through the dungeon moving at breakneck speed. I'm guilty of what you're saying (pulling before tank does, usually because I hate wasting a proc) so maybe I AM that asshole  . But it hasn't mattered at all, we just keep on facerolling through like a wrecking ball.

[Azazel]

I never had an issue through the pre-60 stuff, didn't dungeon much through the TBC section (Wife's mage powerlevelled me through TBC instances a bunch of times) then since I came back to the game I ran a bunch of wotlk instances at 79ish, through to tier-1 Cata instances. Never had a problem with people being dicks until I hit the L83 instances.

Maybe I just had a run of shitty groups. But fuck, if you wanna pull the mobs before I do, don't bitch if I let you tank it. 

DPS is much more pleasant though - fuckall pressure compared to tanking.

[Fabricated]

I feel the opposite really...no one expects me to do anything but corral mobs and possibly interrupt, and like 80% of boss abilities don't matter to me. I mean, look at HoT.

End Time:
Sylvanas - Move out of purple stuff, provide token DPS on ghoul.
Tyrande - Interrupt stardust if my pummel is up.
Baine - Nothing. Hit CD's maybe if he gets to blow up an island and swims in the lava.
Jaina - Don't get hit by ice blades.
Murozond - literally nothing besides rotate CDs.

Well of Eternity:
Goat Guy - Don't stand in void zones, taunt if someone else gets caught.
Azshara - Tank adds.
Mannoroth - Tank adds...hell, maybe not even that.

Hour of Twilight:
Acurion - Tank the boss.
Dawnslayer - Move out of smoke cloud, don't move if I'm not doing that.
Benedictus - Don't get hit by wave.

[Ironwood]

Baine - Nothing. Hit CD's maybe if he gets to blow up an island and swims in the lava.

So what you're saying is YOU'RE the stupid fucker that doesn't throw the totem back ?
 

[Fabricated]

I'm the tank. That's not my job. 

[Ironwood]

Totems are everyone's job.

Also, loose lips sink ships.  Although this is WoW, so you KNOW someone's going to write 'lose' in general chat.

[Zetor]

I find that playing as a tank is the least stressful for me (I also have a hunter and a resto shaman at 85... I don't raid, so my gear's limited to LFR and HoT dungeon drops + jp stuff), healing is far worse -- simply because I am much more in control over the unknown pug factors as a tank. I've never had to leave a pug on my tank, but I had to bail a few times on my pure DPS and healer characters because "it's not happening, guys, sorry". It's kind of like this:
- tank: I control the pace of the entire instance run, I can make up for MANY mistakes done by the dps'rs and a healer by positioning and using my oh-crap buttons liberally. As a blood DK, I have soloed heroic bosses when everyone died to fire early on (and can definitely compensate for a not-very-good healer as well). I also do ridiculous amounts of dps (23k single target, up to 30-some k for aoe) thanks to the LFG buff. This DOES need some decent gear and pre-knowledge of the instances, though.
- dps: I can save the group from some bad situations via kiting, aggro control tricks, CC and burst damage... but if the tank and healer screw up badly at one point, it's a wipe. OTOH it's a lot more relaxed than playing tank or healer (I agree with Az that playing dps is relatively pressure-free).
- healer: I can optimize my buffs to increase the group's damage as much as possible, but that's about it - my own damage is really abysmal, and I often have to spam heals if some of the party members are standing in fire / tank is undergeared / etc. Spamming my big heal WILL run me oom, and it's entirely possible to wipe to an enrage if the party's damage is too low - without me being able to do anything about it.

Random anecdote: there's a boss in Halls of Orig who puts a "max hp reduced by 10%" debuff on the entire group every ~30 seconds or so. It was typical to get 4-5 stacks of the debuff before dropping him, which was fine. However, I once healed for a pug that had such low DPS that we got 10 stacks of the debuff, so all 5 of us were reduced to 1 max HP and promptly wiped when he one-shot the tank and everyone else. We tried 2 more times, I even used my fire elemental and heroism... same result.

[Fabricated]

I've never had him throw the totem at me either. But still, not my job damn it.

[Ironwood]

You're too serious.

 

[Fabricated]

I'm very serious about defending my non-work tanking. *folds arms*

[Merusk]

Healing sucks because you take the blame when that dipshit DPS warrior who's only pulling 4k in Grim Batol stands in Throngus' shield-fire.   Fucking idiot, I should have let him die.

Also, wtf is it with Resto Shaman always having to reapply water shield.  I've been Elemental most of the time and never had to reapply.. Resto it seems like I'm doing it 2-3 times a trash pull just to keep mana, never mind a boss fight.

[Ironwood]

Yes, Lightning shield gets a rather nice 'THIS WILL NEVER GO BELOW 3 ORBS' and Water shield gets the fucking shaft.

I can always tell when I run out of water shield;  I can't heal anyone because I have no mana.

[FieryBalrog]

Weird, i find (non-raid) healing to be almost easier than DPS these days.

DPS I feel like I have to be in tryhard mode all the time just to get up on the meters. Pretty much no one bothers talking shit about meters these days - it's not that- just personal feeling.

Healing, throw out spell every so often. Also as healer you can carry bad groups way, way more than as DPS. If you have a shitty healer you're so fucked as a melee dps.

Now this wasn't the case when Cata came out, healing was stressful as fuck on the launch heroics and the troll-roics. I'm masochistic enough to have really enjoyed those too, though.

[Merusk]

Are you running normal heroics, or EOT heroics?  My DK on the EOT cycle mows through shit.   Meanwhile the Shaman came back on a Scroll of Rezz so she only just hit 85 Saturday and was running her first heroics Sat. evening. 

Early heroics still have shitty shit shit groups, including idiots who continue to queue as Tanks after getting 2-3 PVP pieces to up their score and the rest 287 greens and blues.  My Shaman in DPS mode had almost as many HPs as one DK tank who came in and I was impressed the Paladin was able to keep him alive for the 3 pulls to get to the commander in SFK. (And seriously, fuck that place it's too goddamn long.. an hour and I was only to the 3rd boss when the tank dropped due to time.) 

I do notice most of the terribad players have Brazil or some sort of Portuguese in their guild names.  I'm not sure if it's a latency thing or they're just too new to the game to play well.

[Azazel]

I can definitely see heals being just as stressful as tanking. But a shitty healer is just as bad as a shitty tank. Did two runs last night with my War again, with 2 guildies in dps the first time and 3 the second. First healer we had went in as a feral, didn't heal at all, and then told us "sorry guyz I thought I was dps". When he changed to heal spec the second time he was just fuckawful and we died a second time, before booting him. Pretty sure he was a cat druid who just queued as a healer to cheat the system though.

My tank gear isn't nearly up to soloing bosses yet, though. I can recover from a wipe on trash packs, and you know, the odd time where the group slowly dies on a boss, but I (and you, or anyone) can do that on any boss down to luck and chance and knowing the encounter etc..

[Lt.Dan]

I haven't jumped into LFR yet. I have good enough gear to, but I'm still rocking one blue and I am bound and determined to get rid of it before running LFR.

Also, the difference between running normal heroics and HoT heroics is hilarious. Even post nerf ZA/ZG are way the fuck harder than any of the HoT instances.

Unless you're a tank just get into LFR.  If you don't stand in stuff and stay on target you'll be top 10 dps.  If you're a healer use cooldowns wisely and you'll do your share.  There are parts of most fights where you don't have to cast at all (or dps cast if you want).  I'd exercise caution as a tank, not because you couldn't tank the fights but because you don't want 24 people whining about your gear.

Oh, and my disc priest is ilvl 382 and still wearing blue shoulders! 

[apocrypha]

I had at least one blue on my druid when I went into LFR, it wasn't a problem. And yeah, Wild Growth just pwned my healing meter!

Not had time to go back in for a 2nd go with a different character yet, hopefully tonight before weekly reset. I'm interested to see how it is as DPS in comparison.

[FieryBalrog]

I used to envy DPS when I played my healer main, thinking they got to see all the fight while I saw bars a lot of the time.

Then I tried playing a melee DPS. It's utter chaos.

Healing gets better overview of the fight by far. Though ranged DPS is probably the best.

[Fordel]

Ranged DPS is indeed the best.

[Merusk]

And always has been. Hell, even the fights where they threw some mechanics in to make you move or pay attention it wasn't ever the chaos and stress that melee, tankng or healing ever were.  Most of the times it's really just been "push butanz, get lewtz"

[Azazel]

Yep. I loved my rogue till I started playing my mage. I wasn't even Arcane until the very end of WotLK. Now that's low-stress gaming!

[SurfD]

The thing i hate most about playing mele dps characters is that you pretty much have to stuff your self up the mobs ass and stay there the whole time to do productive dps.  And god help you if you have to chase moving targets.  The constant Out of Range, Target not infront of you (because you ran too far through the mob) or other stupid shit gets annoying after a while.

Personally i have no idea how people manage to PvP as mele, since half the time i try it on my druid I cant land a hit because enemies are always moving.

[Sheepherder]

Yep. I loved my rogue till I started playing my mage. I wasn't even Arcane until the very end of WotLK. Now that's low-stress gaming!

Fel Sac lock in TBC.  I just panned my camera around and looked at the pretty environments while I hit my button.

[Rokal]

The thing i hate most about playing mele dps characters is that you pretty much have to stuff your self up the mobs ass and stay there the whole time to do productive dps.  And god help you if you have to chase moving targets.  The constant Out of Range, Target not infront of you (because you ran too far through the mob) or other stupid shit gets annoying after a while.

Personally i have no idea how people manage to PvP as mele, since half the time i try it on my druid I cant land a hit because enemies are always moving.

Have you considered that many people playing melee dps probably enjoy that you need to stay 'on the move'? Playing ranged dps just feels boring by comparison.

One of the reasons I'm really excited about the Monk is because the melee healing model (optional but encouraged by perks/abilities) ought to be a bit more exciting then standing back and staring at health bars.

[Lantyssa]

Have you considered that many people playing melee dps probably enjoy that you need to stay 'on the move'? Playing ranged dps just feels boring by comparison.

Have you considered that most people playing melee dps probably enjoyed it through the first 85 levels where movement wasn't a big deal, then suddenly have a miserable time in end-game content?

[Zetor]

My personal dps-enjoyment-o-meter™ purely depends on how much 'neat stuff' my character can do other than sticking to the optimal damage priority/rotation. In that respect ranged 'pure' DPS specs are the winners, followed by hybrids like druid/shaman/priest (boooooring, but at least I can heal in a pinch) and finally the melee DPS. The ability to tank in a pinch is nice and all, but kinda useless in most content -- CC and/or heals are better imo.

OTOH, there's a certain actiony/visceral feeling to playing a melee dps'r in pvp that ranged damage dealers just don't have. Killing doods from range feels less personal, or something.

[Rokal]

Have you considered that most people playing melee dps probably enjoyed it through the first 85 levels where movement wasn't a big deal, then suddenly have a miserable time in end-game content?

If anything, movement is much more common in the leveling content. You run into groups of enemies where some are ranged & some are melee, ranged mobs will root you and use slows. You aren't standing in one position fighting for long periods of time, as leveling enemies die quickly and then it's onto the next mob. Leveling pvp also has the same movement concerns right from the beginning. The difference is that you can move at your own pace in leveling content without any real chance of failure, whereas performance is more meaningful/measurable at cap.

It's really a non-issue though. If you want to play a static ranged dps class, there are 6 classes that meet that need. My point was that the 'downsides' to playing melee aren't downsides to most of the people that choose to play melee classes. The same is true for ranged combat: one man's boring gameplay is another man's relaxing gameplay.

[Paelos]

If anything, movement is much more common in the leveling content.

There's a big gap between running around attacking shit, and HOLY FUCK STOP STANDING IN THE FIRE.

[Lt.Dan]

Also you always get 1-3 healers out of the 6 who are barely putting in any effort, so you usually can't slack off and have to carry their asses.

I noticed this. I went in with the bare minimum gear req to queue, having never done the raids before, and came top of the healing meter. There were a couple of healers who did less than 1/3rd of the healing I did.

Clearly I was just trying too hard! 

I was in the unfortunate position of being #6 in healing in a LFR raid last night.  I even got a tell asking why my healing was so bad.  I investigated and it turned out to be two reasons :
- I was at leasty have a tier of gear behind the other healers
- i'm disc and i've never seen a priest with higher healing that pallies, druids, or shammies.
So the summary is, don't put too much stock in the meters for healing performance.

[Paelos]

Healing meters are even more useless than damage meters. With no context or understanding of the situation, you might as well rank the players in terms of who farts the most.