Blizzard adds furries.

[Der Helm]

Small sample, but yeah, the leveling curve is still way, way too long for some new players.

I agree. Even if it is fun for the first time, it still takes way to much time. I was never able to level an alliance character over 20 and I only have one Lvl 80. A DK, of course. 

[Nebu]

Recruit-a-friend helps this immensely, at least for 1-60.  I think this program may be one of the best ideas that Blizzard has had.

[Sir T]

Tab Rasas cloning system was bloody brilliant. Basicly when you wanted you could split off a clone of yourself that was at the level you were at that point, and if you wanted to experiment you could hop back to the clone character and Take it a different direction without going though the grinding up to that point. It would not really work the same way in wow, but I can certanly see a "Congrats you finally got to level 55. Now that you have burned through all that grinding, you can create characters at lev 55 from now on, no matter what class."

[WindupAtheist]

There's your average dude who just wanted to fuck around with a DK and try out the new class.  Then there's every misunderstood teen who thinks R.A. Salvatore is the reincarnation of Charles Dickens.  There's possibly a lot of black clothes involved.  Maybe just a sprinkling of dude's wearing nail polish.  Very well could be a dusting of "Taking Back Sunday" and "Saves The Day."  Look for the word "scene" a lot.

If they felt more like a "dark paladin" aesthetically, as opposed to some chunky cartoon retard screaming "GRARH YOU DIDN'T THINK YOU'D GET TO BE ANYTHING BESIDES A GENERIC GOODGUY DID YOU?" from the bottom of a garbage can, maybe I would have played one for more than a day. The entire Scourge seems about as dark as Gargamel on the Smurfs.

[dusematic]

There's your average dude who just wanted to fuck around with a DK and try out the new class.  Then there's every misunderstood teen who thinks R.A. Salvatore is the reincarnation of Charles Dickens.  There's possibly a lot of black clothes involved.  Maybe just a sprinkling of dude's wearing nail polish.  Very well could be a dusting of "Taking Back Sunday" and "Saves The Day."  Look for the word "scene" a lot.

If they felt more like a "dark paladin" aesthetically, as opposed to some chunky cartoon retard screaming "GRARH YOU DIDN'T THINK YOU'D GET TO BE ANYTHING BESIDES A GENERIC GOODGUY DID YOU?" from the bottom of a garbage can, maybe I would have played one for more than a day. The entire Scourge seems about as dark as Gargamel on the Smurfs.

laughed out loud at generic goodguy, et. al.

[Jayce]

The only MMO-playing friends I have that aren't playing WoW atm are a couple that burnt out on the grind (trying to level up to 70 to play with friends and family, just before WotLK shipped).  People with jobs and families don't want to spend months leveling by themselves to play with capped folks.

Small sample, but yeah, the leveling curve is still way, way too long for some new players.

To ruin your sample, I know several people (4 off the top of my head) that never play at max-level for long. They spend 2-3 weeks and realize they are bored and would rather level an alt.  For those, leveling IS the game.  Take it away and you run the risk of losing them.

There are really two distinct types of players here, and both are very common.

[Hindenburg]

So.... implement something akin to what GW did?

[chargerrich]

You can pretty much take any class ability, then compare it to the DK analogue and objectively say the DK version is flat out superior in almost every instance.

As a PvP and Raid Warlock since the game launched I finally broke down and just leveled my DK to 80 after watching my son roflstomp people on his. Oh Your God! The DK is faceroll easy... but fun as hell and as much as I hate them myself, I will keep playing him and loving it.

[chargerrich]

What I'd like to see is an expansion that chops off the last 20 levels.  Go from 80 back to 60, dialing back the hps/mana/burst.

Maybe it's just the view from my rose-colored glasses.

I think I would roll on a classic server limited 60 immediately. I have been scheduling and leading retro runs for our guild each week during U25 downtime and they have been a hit! I was shocked how many people have never seen MC, BWL, Kara or Sunwell.

Blizzard should create 2 servers, one classic 60 and one classic 70. That would be a blast.

[Lakov_Sanite]

40 man raids, class specific loot, long ass attunements and shitty offspecs that force classes to play one role in raids. much fun as i had then... pre-bc raiding can burn in hell.

[Hindenburg]

You forgot ally-only pallies, limited number of debuff slots, "have a warrior tank or go fuck yourself" raiding, and the awesome scenario grinding for pvp gear. Also, pots, world buffs, reagent farming, etc.

Oh, and pvp one-shotting.

[Rendakor]

The only thing I miss from Pre-BC WoW is server specific BGs. Queues kinda sucked, but there was a much stronger sense of server communities.

[March]

I'm not sure not letting people start any ol' class at 55 is just a matter of "eh, fuck 'em!" I get the feeling Blizzard realises hopping into a class like the druid at 55 cold would be overwhelming if you've never played a druid very high before (and you've presumably not done that if you're making one). I don't think they really want to spend time making DK-like starter zones for every class in order to teach someone how to play their class a little before unleashing them on the unsuspecting rest of the world....etc.

On the other hand, the starting the DK was the most fun I've ever had with a new character; I actually don't think the zone "taught" me anything.  It struck me purely as a buffer area to get me geared and give me two free levels so I could hit TBC at 58.

I don't think it was substantially different than the easy design of the first Honor Hold or Borean Tundra quests... sure, it had a few whiz-bang gizmo quests that were part of the sizzle of the expansion budget, but flying an orb did not teach me about the intricacies of being a DK (if there are any, hur hur).

In fact, I would rather have started at level 66 since TBC was a fucking wasteland populated solely by other idiots leveling a DK... Forcing me to traverse dead content in the name of "teaching" me to play a solo-specced Blood Knight did nothing for their game.

The entire time I was playing the DK, I kept thinking, "Man, this is just the greatest fun I've ever had starting a new game/character."  Then I "graduated" to TBC and quit.

[Thrawn]

The entire time I was playing the DK, I kept thinking, "Man, this is just the greatest fun I've ever had starting a new game/character."  Then I "graduated" to TBC and quit.

Exact same thing I did, got a few levels into Hellfire and haven't played the character again since.

[Ingmar]

I'm not sure not letting people start any ol' class at 55 is just a matter of "eh, fuck 'em!" I get the feeling Blizzard realises hopping into a class like the druid at 55 cold would be overwhelming if you've never played a druid very high before (and you've presumably not done that if you're making one). I don't think they really want to spend time making DK-like starter zones for every class in order to teach someone how to play their class a little before unleashing them on the unsuspecting rest of the world....etc.

On the other hand, the starting the DK was the most fun I've ever had with a new character; I actually don't think the zone "taught" me anything.  It struck me purely as a buffer area to get me geared and give me two free levels so I could hit TBC at 58.

I don't think it was substantially different than the easy design of the first Honor Hold or Borean Tundra quests... sure, it had a few whiz-bang gizmo quests that were part of the sizzle of the expansion budget, but flying an orb did not teach me about the intricacies of being a DK (if there are any, hur hur).

In fact, I would rather have started at level 66 since TBC was a fucking wasteland populated solely by other idiots leveling a DK... Forcing me to traverse dead content in the name of "teaching" me to play a solo-specced Blood Knight did nothing for their game.

The entire time I was playing the DK, I kept thinking, "Man, this is just the greatest fun I've ever had starting a new game/character."  Then I "graduated" to TBC and quit.

The thing is, it still rations your abilities out a few at a time so you can get familiar with what they all do. That's the main thing, otherwise you get people who don't even know that they *have* a given ability in their spellbook at max level or whatever.

[Hindenburg]

Tards will always be tards. A decent in game tutorial presenting all spells and their uses would last under 10 minutes, and would be far better than the "throw kid at pool" method used by all mmo's, and yet...

[Jayce]

Tards will always be tards. A decent in game tutorial presenting all spells and their uses would last under 10 minutes, and would be far better than the "throw kid at pool" method used by all mmo's, and yet...

Swimming is usually more fun than attending a Powerpoint presentation about swimming.

[Hindenburg]

Would it kill them to have a disembodied voice saying "this is Prayer of Mending. HIT THAT SHIT WITH THE TANK SELECTED AS SOON AS IT LEAVES COOLDOWN when healing a group"? Heck, "this is shadowstep. It generates tears.".

I'm not proposing a cutscene. You're free to have a room with some targetting dummies to fill those roles while training. Tie it to achievements.

[kildorn]

Some classes, that may work. Others, not so much. There are a LOT of buttons on some classes, and that doesn't even take spec into account. Plus you'd need to redo the training rooms every patch when you change a skill.

[Soulflame]

There's at least one more Old God, Azshara, plus the Emerald Nightmare to deal with, although all of that could be cleaned up in one expansion.  Not to mention Blizzard reps have said in the past that Sargeras might make another appearance.

Azshara isn't an old god.  She was a night elf queen that let the Burning Legion in the first time.

Really I think they can pull any old god out of their ass.  There isn't a final catalog of them anywhere that I know of.

Regarding choosing a faction at 20 - I doubt it will happen. Blizzard said somewhere that it would be a bad idea for friend or foe identification.

My suggested list of opponents for an Emerald Dream style expansion, which appears to be what blizzard is going towards.
- As of yet unnamed Old God
- Azshara
- Sargeras
- Emerald Nightmare

I was recently reading up on the lolore, and apparently as the well of eternity was going KABOOM with great vigor, she was contacted by an Old God, and an offer of safety was made.  The end result is that she was transformed into some octopus monstrosity, and the other highborne were turned into Naga.

As was mentioned, Azshara is a being of nearly unmatched magical power, according to the lore.  Only the most powerful demons could stand against her when the invasion occured.

As for the Old Gods, their number is not really nailed down.  I think five is the most mentioned number, and as of yet, two have been dealt with recently, and another has a giant sword in its head, implying that at some point Blizzard could "ressurect" that one simply by having the Twilight Idiots manage to remove the sword, and viola!  New Old God!

[dusematic]

Emerald Dream?  I thought all evidence pointed to a catacylsm expansion: goblins, islands, the high seas.

[Ingmar]

Because Azshara ties into both the Emerald Dream AND the high seas stuff, from what I understand the current best guess is the expansion will cover both.

[Soulflame]

mmo-champion has noticed some changes in maps for the emerald dream. (Source.) It's definitely possible that the following (i.e. 90-100) expansion will be dealing with the Emerald Nightmare, and its Old God instigator/creator.  This could mean the next expansion (i.e. 80-90) will be dealing with Azshara, and whatever Old God is behind her.  Or it could mean an all-in-one deal.

[Ingmar]

I'd guess all-in-one just because I know they want to get along to the Burning Legion homeworld thing or whatever.

[Lantyssa]

Emerald Dream?  I thought all evidence pointed to a catacylsm expansion: goblins, islands, the high seas.

Maybe they could nick Pirates of the Burning Seas' ship combat.  Arrr!

[Soulflame]

I did read something interesting when I recently dealt with the admiral of the Scarlet Onslaught, who then promptly turned into Mal'Ganis.  When defeated, he mentioned he was going to return to his homeworld, which I thought was confusing, as I was under the impression the Nathrezim didn't have a homeworld, but were living in the Twisting Nether.

I suppose there could be an expansion for Burning Legion/Twisting Nether, especially since Blizzard has hinted in the past that they felt there was more mileage to be gotten out of Sargeras.

[Ingmar]

Supposedly Turalyon and Alleria (I may have spelled something wrong there) are stuck on the Legion homeworld or whatever too.

[Sjofn]

Emerald Dream?  I thought all evidence pointed to a catacylsm expansion: goblins, islands, the high seas.

Maybe they could nick Pirates of the Burning Seas' ship combat.  Arrr!

Oh God would that rule.

[Rasix]

Emerald Dream?  I thought all evidence pointed to a catacylsm expansion: goblins, islands, the high seas.

Maybe they could nick Pirates of the Burning Seas' ship combat.  Arrr!

No boats.  PLEASE, NO BOATS.

[Nevermore]

I always assumed Sargeras would be the last boss we ever fight.  After beating him on his homeworld, which is barren and desolate and has even taller and more pointy castles than the previously seen tall, pointy castles, a long cutscene voiced by Earl Boen comes on and and tells you that you've beaten the World of Warcraft.  There's nothing left to do.  Then your character is deleted and the game uninstalls itself.  

[kildorn]

I always assumed Sargeras would be the last boss we ever fight.  After beating him on his homeworld, which is barren and desolate and has even taller and more pointy castles than the previously seen tall, pointy castles, a long cutscene voiced by Earl Boen comes on and and tells you that you've beaten the World of Warcraft.  There's nothing left to do.  Then your character is deleted and the game uninstalls itself.  

It could always pull a Pools of Radiance.

[Hindenburg]

It could always pull a Pools of Radiance.

What happened at the end of that game? Party perma-died?

[Ingmar]

I assume he actually means it could pull a Curse of the Azure Bonds - you started that game naked and without gear, no matter how twinked out the group you imported in from Pools of Radiance was.

[Rasix]

It could always pull a Pools of Radiance.

What happened at the end of that game? Party perma-died?

I think the remake of that game had the nasty side effect of sometimes formatting someone's hard drive.

[Ingmar]

Oh right, that. Yeah it blew away the hard drive if you installed it to somewhere other than the default location and then uninstalled it.