Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 20, 2025, 12:55:23 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
we're back, baby
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Topic: Vaping with eCigarettes 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 11 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Vaping with eCigarettes  (Read 184976 times)
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148


Reply #105 on: September 18, 2009, 06:33:00 AM

lol. Some of you, remind me of some shop class friends.

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
www.mrbloodworthproductions.com  www.amuletsbymerlin.com
Nerf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2421

The Presence of Your Vehicle Has Been Documented


Reply #106 on: September 18, 2009, 07:56:07 AM

Good tips on that stuff, Nerf, I'll probably have to hit you up when I'm a little more flush on funds.

That being said, I don't really want this to turn into a home chemistry project, so is there any place that has a more decent quality off the shelf flavor selection than the chinese sites?

Afaik, pretty much every liquid seller in the US is either relabeling chinese liquid, or buying unflavored e-liquid in bulk from china and adding their own flavors.  It's not quite home chemistry set complex to make your own stuff.  I have 3 bottles, and then flavor.  BlipLabs nicotine+pg bottle, USP PG bottle for reducing strength, and glycerin bottle as it needs about 10%.  I use 3ml syringes with heavy gauge needles to mix it all up in handy little squeeze bottles from usplastics that cost $.30-.50 per or something silly like that.  Theres even a handy-dandy excel spreadsheet where you can input your starting strength, desired strength, quantity made, and flavor%, and it will tell you the exact formulation in both drops and mls.

All that being said, you *might* luck out with the chinese stuff and your tastebuds don't pick up on the vile aftertaste.  I'm not so lucky, 70%+ of the stuff tastes like warm beer to me.  And as long as you're not worried about the source of that aftertaste, then you're all set if you can't taste it.
Big Gulp
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3275


Reply #107 on: September 18, 2009, 09:36:10 AM

Afaik, pretty much every liquid seller in the US is either relabeling chinese liquid, or buying unflavored e-liquid in bulk from china and adding their own flavors.  It's not quite home chemistry set complex to make your own stuff.  I have 3 bottles, and then flavor.  BlipLabs nicotine+pg bottle, USP PG bottle for reducing strength, and glycerin bottle as it needs about 10%.  I use 3ml syringes with heavy gauge needles to mix it all up in handy little squeeze bottles from usplastics that cost $.30-.50 per or something silly like that.  Theres even a handy-dandy excel spreadsheet where you can input your starting strength, desired strength, quantity made, and flavor%, and it will tell you the exact formulation in both drops and mls.

All that being said, you *might* luck out with the chinese stuff and your tastebuds don't pick up on the vile aftertaste.  I'm not so lucky, 70%+ of the stuff tastes like warm beer to me.  And as long as you're not worried about the source of that aftertaste, then you're all set if you can't taste it.

This doesn't sound too bad, and I do have space in my meth-cooking shed for such an operation...  I'm alway looking to expand into new markets!
MahrinSkel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10859

When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #108 on: September 18, 2009, 09:45:24 AM

Don't get Chinese liquid, the stuff is *nasty*:



The one on the left is a used up cartridge that I used Mint High from the booth at the mall, the one on the right Blip Labs I added a little wintergreen flavoring to after diluting with PG, also vaped until the cartridge died.  When I picked up the stuff at the mall, I noticed that the Mint 0MG was perfectly clear, and everything with nicotine in it was brown like strong coffee.

Since nicotine itself is perfectly clear, and so is PG, any color comes from contaminants, probably in the nicotine solution.  My best guess is that the Chinese fluid is made from a base of pesticide grade nicotine (30-40%), and is 5-6% (after mixing with PG) whatever else comes out of the tobacco when they do the cheap and dirty extraction.  On the other hand, the Blip Labs stuff has only the slightest yellow tinge to it, and no aftertaste.  Doesn't gum up my atomizers as fast, either.  They and the other US manufacturers are starting from scientific grade 99.7% nicotine and USP propylene glycol (one of the things the FDA tests of Chinese fluid found was antifreeze contamination, because somebody used PG made on the same equipment as antifreeze, probably)

It's a totally unregulated consumer product made in China, what could go wrong?  Seriously, buy from a US liquid mixer, flavor it yourself if you need to, but stay away from that Chinese liquid.

--Dave

--Signature Unclear
Nonentity
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2301

2009 Demon's Souls Fantasy League Champion


WWW
Reply #109 on: September 18, 2009, 12:15:11 PM

I was actually thinking of the DSE901 when I said I started on the 501.

That being said, do I need to be getting 510 atomizers to be able to work with the stuff you've been working on, Nerf?

I picked up some spare 901 stuff my friend had lying around on the cheap, just to get back into it, but I think once I get back into it, I'll be in the market for something a little more durable.

But that Captain's salami tray was tight, yo. You plump for the roast pork loin, dogg?

[20:42:41] You are halted on the way to the netherworld by a dark spirit, demanding knowledge.
[20:42:41] The spirit touches you and you feel drained.
Nerf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2421

The Presence of Your Vehicle Has Been Documented


Reply #110 on: September 18, 2009, 10:09:58 PM

There is no durability difference between the 510 and 901 whatsoever, if anything, the 510 may be more prone to failure as it is pulling more amperage and operating at a higher wattage on the same voltage - the failure point is the solder joints on the resistance wire generally.

I can make a laser mod in 510, and I just happen to have an extra 510 to 901 adapter that I accidentally made.  Since the 510 connector is female, with the 901 adapter on it the size difference is maybe a few mm longer than the laser made specifically for the 901.  I can do 510->801 or 510->401 adapters as well, so you could conceivably use your 510 laser mod with any atomizer.  There are no real durability differences between any of them, but the 510 does eat up juice faster due to it being a higher power model.
SnakeCharmer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3807


Reply #111 on: September 19, 2009, 01:01:08 PM

You bunch of pussies.  Either smoke a real cigarette, or quit.
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148


Reply #112 on: September 21, 2009, 06:31:48 AM

There is no durability difference between the 510 and 901 whatsoever, if anything, the 510 may be more prone to failure as it is pulling more amperage and operating at a higher wattage on the same voltage - the failure point is the solder joints on the resistance wire generally.

I can make a laser mod in 510, and I just happen to have an extra 510 to 901 adapter that I accidentally made.  Since the 510 connector is female, with the 901 adapter on it the size difference is maybe a few mm longer than the laser made specifically for the 901.  I can do 510->801 or 510->401 adapters as well, so you could conceivably use your 510 laser mod with any atomizer.  There are no real durability differences between any of them, but the 510 does eat up juice faster due to it being a higher power model.

I'm sorry, what brand or site are you guys getting the model numbers from?

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
www.mrbloodworthproductions.com  www.amuletsbymerlin.com
Nerf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2421

The Presence of Your Vehicle Has Been Documented


Reply #113 on: September 21, 2009, 09:01:02 AM

The model numbers are pretty consistent through all the manufacturers.  A few of them have re-branded it with some catchy name, but will often still have the numerical designation somewhere.  I get all of my atomizers from www.bestecig.com - their customer service is stellar, most of my shipments make it here from China in 4 days, and they re-ship for free is customs seizes your order, which hasn't happened to me yet.

Basically:
901 - mini, stiffer draw, warmer vapor
801 - penstyle, easier draw, still a decent throat hit but not the same level as the 901
510 - mini, draw on par with the 901, much warmer vapor.  Resistance coil is 2.6-3ohms instead of 3.5-4ohms, so you're achieving a higher wattage and hotter coil off the same battery.
Ookii
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 2676

is actually Trippy


WWW
Reply #114 on: September 21, 2009, 09:30:19 AM

I've had the 901, 801 and 510 (as well as something else, still not sure what the model number is), and I like the 510 the best.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 11:07:38 AM by Ookii »

MahrinSkel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10859

When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #115 on: September 21, 2009, 09:31:28 AM

There's two basic number series, RN and DSE, most US modders use DSE numbers; 801 for the classic penstyle, 601 for the pipe.  510 (an exception, it's the Joye Tech version of the 401, with inverted atomizer/battery fittings) and 401 are "minicig" styles designed to match analogs in size and appearance, 501 is the cigar, 101 is the disposable cigar (not sold much anymore, had about week's worth of juice packed into it but no way to reload without cutting it open with a rotary tool), and so on.  510's also run hotter (and burn through batteries faster), and give a great throat hit (which mostly turns on actually boiling liquid rather than just making PG steam).  901 is the original minicig, just a scaled-down version of the 801, preferred by "drippers" because of the ventilation hole in the base of the atomizer (they can drip directly into it without popping the mouthpiece off).

There's also a bunch of "cartomizer" based product lines, disposable one-shot units with a disposable cartridge and atomizer 1-piece, can't be reloaded so they aren't popular in the US because it's hard to get reloads reliably (and hard to predict which ones will lose out in the Chinese market and disappear).  They're the coming thing in China, and probably here as well once the tobacco companies catch up (because they are more easily packaged, marketed, regulated, and taxed like analogs).  Those tend to be manufacturer-locked, razor-vs.-blades business models playing themselves out.

Most US/EU mods center on the 801 (largest liquid capacity in cartridges), 901 (dripping) and 510 (high-temp throat hit), and are mostly just "battery mods", meaning the battery and switch units are replaced with something else (usually higher battery life and/or voltage) and Chinese atomizers and cartridges are used unaltered.  I'm playing around with some ideas for building stems for my ePipe (which is essentially a complicated battery mod) from brass/aluminum tubing, pipe/cigar cartridges (much higher liquid capacity than even the 801), and 510 or 401 atomizers (those being as close as you can get to buying a bare atomizer).

Some modders take the electronics, specifically the time limits and LED indicator logic, out of Chinese made eCig battery units and transplant them into a new case with bigger batteries (the Janty Stick, for example).  A couple incorporate voltage regulation (Li-Ion cells drop in voltage over time, so you get a different vape on a fresh cell than one that's about to cut off from undervoltage).  And there's some kludges where multiple barrels of atomizers are driven off a single large battery, or two batteries in series are used to seriously overdrive the atomizers.

If you investigate the history of the eCig in China, you see a lot of places where they could have worked out differently.  It started with a ban on smoking in some cities as part of the pollution cleanup for the 2008 Olympics.  Somebody noticed that agricultural workers that used nicotine-based insecticides would stand in the fog deliberately, as an alternative to smoking.  The original eCig patent called for an ultrasonic mister (like a "cool mist" humidifier you can get at the drugstore), but that wouldn't scale well.  It's almost an article of faith to most US modders that the Chinese designs for atomizers are ideal, which is bullshit; What they are is *cheap*, and the same goes for the cartridges and batteries.  If you look, there are better ways to do everything the Chinese do.

Not to mention safer.  The atomizers are based around fine-gauge NiChrome heating elements, as in 80/20 Nickel/Chromium, both toxic metals.  Because they are controlling heating wattage by resistance of the heating element balanced against battery voltage, they have to use very thin NiChrome (38 gauge is apparently typical).  That means the free-running temperature of a dry atomizer is very close to the melting point of NiChrome, and only airflow and boiling off PG keeps it from destroying itself.  For two-cell 8.4V mods, the free-running temperature significantly exceeds the *boiling* point of NiChrome, and those are the only things preventing the atomizer coils from going up like a old-school flashbulb (and giving the user a nice lungful of nickel and chromium vapor).  Pretty sure they're not using lead-free solder much, either (I do in my adapters, even though it's a pain to work with).

Li-Ion itself has some...issues.  Drain it too far, too fast, and you get a nice fireworks show, even the newer, "vented" cells are sending out clouds of flaming hot poisonous gas when they go into thermal runaway.  There are safer Lithium chemistries, but they either have lower base voltages or lower energy density.  The cartridges are filled with polywool (same as a cheap pillow), which sucks as a wicking material and is toxic when burned in half a dozen ways.

Chinese eLiquid seems to starts from a base of 35% nicotine, pesticide grade, which is why the FDA found so much nasty shit in it.  >99% isn't *that* much more expensive, at least here, but like everything else, the baseline works from Chinese budgets and consumer-protection standards (the country where even deadly baby formula wasn't technically illegal until they invented ex post facto rulings to cover that particular case).  What's going to happen as the FDA gets involved is that the market growth will be deliberately stunted (because Big Tobacco needs time to get ahead of this, and states want their taxes), and a lot of the standard parts are going to become unavailable (as the FDA does their real job and bans a lot of this shit as unsafe, because it really is).  But the eCigs themselves won't be outright banned, other than in a few areas as local busybodies take umbrage at people finding a loophole on the bans against smoking.

One reason I'm using RCA rather than some eCig battery fitting directly is that the current eCig models won't be around much longer, and there's no telling what format the American-built replacements will take, an RCA fitting is flexible enough to adapt to just about anything, and it's likely to be the format of choice for modders (already getting there) so I can leverage the atomizer advances made by anyone else without making any major changes.  And any atomizer mods I create will be compatible with a wide range of battery mods without extra adapters.  I'm working to make myself independant of any particular power source, either (potentially I could drive my luxury design off NiCad or NiMH cells), as Li-Ion is inherently unsafe.

In 3-5 years, Big Tobacco will catch up and hit the market with billion-dollar warchests, and it's unlikely anyone will be able to compete with their raw financial and political power.  My best case scenarios involve having a strong enough brand by then it's more effective for them to buy it than crush it.  Worst case, I recover what I've spent on tool over the next few months and chalk it up to experience, another of my brilliant plans that was too hip for the room.  Most likely, I make some money with a sideline for a few years, which gives me the resources and flexibility to get my game design career back on track.

--Dave

--Signature Unclear
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60350


WWW
Reply #116 on: September 21, 2009, 10:27:12 AM

I'm not sure I'd describe a pipe with a button to smoke magic vapor as "too hip for the room," but I see what you're trying to get at. awesome, for real
Ookii
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 2676

is actually Trippy


WWW
Reply #117 on: September 21, 2009, 11:14:15 AM

Fantastic writeup, far too good considering the 10 people who actually read this thread. If anyone else is a vaping newbie you can also check out this.

Oh, and if you want to know what the different models look like go here.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 11:18:37 AM by Ookii »

Ookii
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 2676

is actually Trippy


WWW
Reply #118 on: September 23, 2009, 04:42:52 PM

You gotta love shit like this:

http://greensboropostherald.com/

No wonder the FDA is all pissy.

Nerf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2421

The Presence of Your Vehicle Has Been Documented


Reply #119 on: September 23, 2009, 04:58:36 PM

I love how they have to include the bit from the doctor where he opines "Smokers don't like flavors, this is obviously to try to get kids hooked on their products."

Fuck you doc, have you tasted cigarettes? They don't really taste all that great.  Adults like things that taste good - it's why you shell out $400 for a bottle of wine over the $4 box you can get at wal-mart.  I love my watermelon flavor, it tastes great and is satisfying.  This shit already pushes non-smokers away by the huge coughing fits that you get when you first try it out, and the fact that it is a royal pain the ass to manage batteries, juice, atomizers, etc.  It's simply too much effort if you don't already like smoking.
Ookii
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 2676

is actually Trippy


WWW
Reply #120 on: September 23, 2009, 06:13:02 PM

You realize it's an advertisement for Smoking Everywhere right? The whole page.

Nerf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2421

The Presence of Your Vehicle Has Been Documented


Reply #121 on: September 23, 2009, 09:57:13 PM

Actually no, I didn't pay enough attention to that.  It makes it even funnier though, you think they would have edited the bit I raged on out of the clip that they're hosting on their own website.
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148


Reply #122 on: September 24, 2009, 06:27:37 AM

I ordered from here, and bought some of the disposables, just to try it out. Now I am a bit concerned that my shipment may never arrive due to the FDA.

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
www.mrbloodworthproductions.com  www.amuletsbymerlin.com
Miguel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1298

कुशल


Reply #123 on: September 24, 2009, 08:33:10 AM

Just saw this:

Quote
someone explain to me exactly what a mosfet is, btw

Basically it's a three-terminal transistor (gate, source, drain).  It's hard to completely summarize it's operation in a few sentences, but for all intents and purposes its an electronic switch:  the voltage at the gate modulates the resistance between the drain and source.  They come in depletion mode and enhancement mode varieties, and also N channel and P channel varieties.

So if the gate voltage is at the same potential as the source, the switch is off (very high resistance between the drain and source).  If the voltage is sufficiently higher than the source (enhancement) or sufficiently lower (depletion), then the switch is on, and the resistance is low.  This is for an N channel by the way.  P channels work by taking everything just stated and flipping it to the opposite terminal and reversing the signal polarities (easy, huh?).

They are mostly used in situations where a very low-current capable control voltage (like that coming through a low current contact switch) can be used to 'turn on and off' a much larger current than the switch is capable of passing, since the current only flows from drain to source and not through the control gate.  So for eCig purposes, if you have a low current contact switch an N-channel enhancement MOSFET could be used to turn on and off 1-2A of current through a heating coil, without passing the coil current through the switch.

I can make a schematic in graphics form if you are really that interested.

“We have competent people thinking about this stuff. We’re not just making shit up.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson
Ratman_tf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3818


Reply #124 on: September 24, 2009, 10:22:35 AM

I ordered a Yeti 510 as an experiment to see if I like it. I'm glad I did a little net research before buying something like the Blu. (Which I hear is terrible)




 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
-Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation.
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60350


WWW
Reply #125 on: September 24, 2009, 10:24:49 AM

You gotta love shit like this:

http://greensboropostherald.com/

No wonder the FDA is all pissy.

:(

That video has way too much smoke to be the result of an e-cig.
Ookii
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 2676

is actually Trippy


WWW
Reply #126 on: September 24, 2009, 10:53:41 AM

You gotta love shit like this:

http://greensboropostherald.com/

No wonder the FDA is all pissy.

:(

That video has way too much smoke to be the result of an e-cig.

Not really, they're more than comparable to a analog cig.  Some guys can produce cubic feet of vape, but they're not normal.

Nonentity
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2301

2009 Demon's Souls Fantasy League Champion


WWW
Reply #127 on: September 24, 2009, 10:56:59 AM

Hopefully that stuff that I have coming makes it through customs. I'll be mighty pissed if it does not.

I'll have to become a home chemist, bleah.

But that Captain's salami tray was tight, yo. You plump for the roast pork loin, dogg?

[20:42:41] You are halted on the way to the netherworld by a dark spirit, demanding knowledge.
[20:42:41] The spirit touches you and you feel drained.
Nerf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2421

The Presence of Your Vehicle Has Been Documented


Reply #128 on: September 24, 2009, 11:35:45 AM

Just saw this:

Quote
someone explain to me exactly what a mosfet is, btw

Basically it's a three-terminal transistor (gate, source, drain).  It's hard to completely summarize it's operation in a few sentences, but for all intents and purposes its an electronic switch:  the voltage at the gate modulates the resistance between the drain and source.  They come in depletion mode and enhancement mode varieties, and also N channel and P channel varieties.

So if the gate voltage is at the same potential as the source, the switch is off (very high resistance between the drain and source).  If the voltage is sufficiently higher than the source (enhancement) or sufficiently lower (depletion), then the switch is on, and the resistance is low.  This is for an N channel by the way.  P channels work by taking everything just stated and flipping it to the opposite terminal and reversing the signal polarities (easy, huh?).

They are mostly used in situations where a very low-current capable control voltage (like that coming through a low current contact switch) can be used to 'turn on and off' a much larger current than the switch is capable of passing, since the current only flows from drain to source and not through the control gate.  So for eCig purposes, if you have a low current contact switch an N-channel enhancement MOSFET could be used to turn on and off 1-2A of current through a heating coil, without passing the coil current through the switch.

I can make a schematic in graphics form if you are really that interested.

I ended up calling mouser, digikey, etc, and after playing phone pong for awhile got ahold of an engineer at Vishay semiconductors.  He explained it all to me, altough his explanation was a bit different.  Basically, he told me that that as long as my voltage applied to the gate was greater than the gate voltage threshold and fell on the right position in the charts, it would be on.  He knew I was applying the same voltage to the gate and drain and didn't say that would be a problem.  In fact, I haven't seen anything about the voltage at the gate having to be greater than that of the source/drain, just > Vg(th).  I got some in from mouser and will be experimenting today.

The engineer at Vishay happens to be in Plano and desperately wants an E-cig to show at company show and tell too, he was absolutely fascinated by the concept - so I need to get one made for him to send out.
Miguel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1298

कुशल


Reply #129 on: September 24, 2009, 12:00:02 PM

Quote
He explained it all to me, altough his explanation was a bit different.  Basically, he told me that that as long as my voltage applied to the gate was greater than the gate voltage threshold and fell on the right position in the charts, it would be on.  He knew I was applying the same voltage to the gate and drain and didn't say that would be a problem.  In fact, I haven't seen anything about the voltage at the gate having to be greater than that of the source/drain, just > Vg(th).

Well, that is an oversimplification:  threshold voltage is with respect to the source terminal:  so if you have the source terminal grounded (sounds like you do),  and your gate voltage is referenced from the same ground (and is above the threshold) then it will indeed be on.  I'm also guessing that your drain voltage is coming from the battery and feeds the gate as well (through a switch).

The same voltage at gate and drain is no problem (on N channel), because the transistor doesn't really reference that terminal from an on/off perspective (well, it technically does, but not in the mode you are likely using).

“We have competent people thinking about this stuff. We’re not just making shit up.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson
Nerf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2421

The Presence of Your Vehicle Has Been Documented


Reply #130 on: September 24, 2009, 12:09:36 PM

Yeah, using N-channels, heres the schematic I drew:


Gate and drain will be wired to same leg of switch so I won't be passing that current through the body of the switch whatsoever.

Edit: On a P-channel, I know my ground would be attached to the gate (with a switch), so I'm assuming drain would be ground as well and source would be positive?  Basically the exact same schematic as above with the polarity reversed for a P channel?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2009, 12:13:51 PM by Nerf »
MahrinSkel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10859

When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #131 on: September 24, 2009, 03:10:07 PM

You gotta love shit like this:

http://greensboropostherald.com/

No wonder the FDA is all pissy.

:(

That video has way too much smoke to be the result of an e-cig.
Don't judge it by Nerf's setups, he likes a harsh throat hit so he restricts the air flow and uses a manufacturer known for high-temp coils (so more of the nicotine is gaseous rather than trapped in little PG droplets).  With a ventilated adapter (so the center hole can draw) and a different manufacturer's 801 atomizer, my pipe can produce a very large steam plume, and so can most stock eCig's (you can also choke it off on mine by pushing the stem boot flush to the pipe, and get your throat hit and invisible vapor).

A mosfet (Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor) is essentially a replacement for old-style relays and solenoids, which used electric motors or magnetic coils to close a switch.  Being solid-state, it can handle a lot more current with the downside of a "trickle" waste current when it is switched off.  It can handle a lot more current than an ordinary switching transistor, while still being a lot smaller and more responsive than a relay or solenoid.

Speaking of my pipes, the second prototype model is mostly finished:

Quote from: Dave Rickey
Well, the second prototype is almost complete, the parts I need for final assembly won't arrive for at least a week, so I figured I'd update this again now.

It's all assembled, pretty much as planned except I gave up complete on the aluminum pill bottles as battery cases (the protection PCB operates by interrupting the ground, and you can't do that reliably when the battery is entirely surrounded by metal). This one is back to heat-shrink and electrical tape until I get the tubing I need for proper battery packs. Mostly that means the battery connection isn't quite as neat and clean as it should be, but functionally little changes.



As you can see, it looks like a pipe as long as you don't see the battery connection. I used a silver 801 just so it would be more obvious I had actually done something.



I have fairly big hands, but you can see that it's a pretty standard sized pipe, a Billiard style which is one of the vertically taller of the traditional pipe designs, but not particularly noteworthy for size.



A rough mockup of what it will look like once it's properly assembled, that switch will be replaced with something flatter and all black, the neoprene washer on top will be replace with a metal (but still black) disk, and that will be held in place by 3 black screws in slots, press and turn to release.



Safe mode now lights up in red. If you look carefully, you can see the mini-toggle in the down position.



Operation mode is now green. Note that it's green even though there is no actual load (atomizer isn't attached), that's something I hope to fix in the future. There's only one LED, which is supposed to be able to do red, green, or amber, but I can't get amber out of it without running so much current the LED starts to overheat. I'll keep looking for a better solution there.



I'm pretty happy with this prototype, the main goal I had for it (getting all the wiring except the battery connection inside the pipe) has been accomplished. I'm trying to decide if I want to commit to ordering materials for a truly polished version, and weighing the different options for actual pipes to use for shells. It's actually hard to find a real wood pipe that doesn't cost too much to be hacked and butchered this way, yet has a consistent quality and physical spec between units. Lane and Dr. Grabow are the leading contenders, although there's some Bent Bobs I *really* like for only a few dollars more.

I'm looking at another $500 to create "production" models, mostly because there's stuff I want for them that I can't get without minimum orders in the $100+ range.  That gets me all of the materials for 10 kits *except* the actual pipes (only gets me 5 of those, 4 of which are earmarked as giveaway demos), and a couple more tools (need a second drill press, some better lighting and storage for my workbench, and a small bandsaw).  If I get that far, there are a lot of places I can save either money, or assembly time, if I'm turning enough volume to justify it (a custom PCB would cut assembly time in half, as well as let me add some cool features).  I will be getting more of the long lead-time stuff than the stuff I can just go down to Altex or Fry's and buy retail, so I can potentially produce 30 kits before having to wait for a shipment from China to make more.  If I sell 30 kits that quickly, I'll be a happy camper (will pay off my front money several times over).  And there are some local alternatives that cost more, so even in that "high class problem" scenario I'm not screwed.

--Dave

--Signature Unclear
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60350


WWW
Reply #132 on: September 24, 2009, 03:24:24 PM

That's ten cartons of smokes.

Just saying.
MahrinSkel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10859

When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #133 on: September 24, 2009, 03:57:38 PM

That's ten cartons of smokes.

Just saying.
If I was doing all of this just to quit smoking, you'd have a point.  But I accomplished that with the first $150 to Nerf, and I'm now up about $100-150 over where I would have been smoking cigarettes the last 2 months.





Considering the nasty-looking crap that is on the market at $100+ price points and the guys behind them can't produce them fast enough, yeah, I think I can sell this.  And it's *not* that easy to do, it looks like it should be but turns out to be very difficult.

--Dave

--Signature Unclear
Miguel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1298

कुशल


Reply #134 on: September 24, 2009, 07:20:43 PM

Quote from: nerf
...schematic...

What is the part number of the transistor you are using?  That almost looks like a depletion mode arrangement or diode biasing.

Are you sure about the schematic?  SPST switches do not have three contacts (4 implies there are two individual SPST switches in there), and according to that wiring the LED is reversed biased and would not light. smiley

Also,  leaving the gate floating when the switch is not depressed can cause a leakage current (e.g. battery leak) through the coil depending on to what voltage the gate floats.  You should add a resistor pull up(or down) to force the transistor off.

Send me a PM if you want some details.

“We have competent people thinking about this stuff. We’re not just making shit up.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson
MahrinSkel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10859

When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #135 on: September 24, 2009, 10:09:51 PM

The switches he uses are little SMT tactile switches, they have four pins but the pairs are electrically linked, it's for mechanical stability and another contact point to connect the circuit through on a PCB.  I finally tracked down some tactile switches intended for snap-in chassis mounting that are only 7mm for the main case and rated for 100mA at 50VDC, so I can keep using an ordinary switch for now (I will be overdriving it by 20-40%, but not the 600-1000% typical in mods).

That schematic doesn't look right to me, either, for some reason I remember mosfets as having 4 contacts.  Maybe that was just the ginormous ones we used to feed the magnetrons on the radars (1 MW peak power, 1 KW sustained load).  And although you used to have to bias at a voltage higher than your source and use a ground to shut it off, I understand they've gotten a lot simpler in the last decade or so.

You want an example of how silly the mods market is? 



That's a piece of copper tubing, a couple of copper caps, a spring and some clever machining.  No electronics at *all*, you push in on the mini-cig atomizer (a truly tiny RN4082 model that's good for about 3 puffs), closing a mechanical circuit with two CR2's, and that's it.  Clever, but get this: $94.95.  Without atomizers, cartridges, batteries or a charger.

Yeah, if this guy can pull it in hand over fist with a mod that could have come almost straight out of the Plumbing department at Lowes, I can sell my pipes.

--Dave

--Signature Unclear
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60350


WWW
Reply #136 on: September 24, 2009, 10:22:15 PM

That's ten cartons of smokes.

Just saying.
If I was doing all of this just to quit smoking, you'd have a point.  But I accomplished that with the first $150 to Nerf, and I'm now up about $100-150 over where I would have been smoking cigarettes the last 2 months.





Considering the nasty-looking crap that is on the market at $100+ price points and the guys behind them can't produce them fast enough, yeah, I think I can sell this.  And it's *not* that easy to do, it looks like it should be but turns out to be very difficult.

--Dave
Look, I'm not out to diss home tinkering, but like, saying those are nasty looking and expecting to buy pipes strikes me as strange. Now if you were using something that looked like a Peterson Ebony, yea, maybe I could see people using them. But we're one step above a corncob crack pipe here.

Of course, you might be using these as pictures of things that aren't nasty. Frankly, every e-cig I've seen other than the shitty smoke everywhere things look stupid. Just silly looking.

MahrinSkel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10859

When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #137 on: September 24, 2009, 11:16:55 PM

Those are the best looking of the aftermarket mods, and they've been out for a while so they've managed to improve their manufacturing methods, and they *still* look like pipe bombs.

My prototypes are comparatively clunky, for three reasons: I was figuring out how to put them together as I went; I hadn't settled on my components yet, so I used easier to find/cheaper stuff; And I used the cheapest pipes I could find.  The first prototype was literally a $10 pipe, *retail*.  The second, I was making sure I could work with irregular surfaces (and real briar), so I got a $25 pipe with a really rough and corrugated surface.  I wanted to see if my manufacturing method could deal with a worst-case scenario, and it was fine.

You want something that looks like a Peterson Ebony?  If you're willing to pay for it, I can make you one that *is* a Peterson Ebony.  That's the advantage of using real pipes for the shell: I can use *any* actual smoking pipe that has large enough dimensions.  Apples generally don't, Dublins look weird to most people (we won't even talk about Freehands), Billiards were the right dimensions and look like what average people expect when you talk about pipes.

--Dave
« Last Edit: September 24, 2009, 11:29:17 PM by MahrinSkel »

--Signature Unclear
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60350


WWW
Reply #138 on: September 24, 2009, 11:38:18 PM

I already have Peterson Ebony(ies). As well as  - well, I have a handful of very very nice pipes. Ookii can attest. I'll probably never smoke them again so maybe I'll have you gut one.
Nerf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2421

The Presence of Your Vehicle Has Been Documented


Reply #139 on: September 25, 2009, 02:30:01 AM

P/N on the mosfets is SI2312BDS-T1-E3 - Vishay/Siliconix

My issue was not having a resistor from the gate to ground, I'm not exactly sure why, but I was getting enough voltage leakage to partly close the gate and things were staying on.  Also popped one and broke the leads on a few others.  I don't think I'll be ordering anymore SOT23 package parts. Too fucking tiny.  I just ordered a dozen or so SOT223 that are almost twice the size - roughly 6mm x 4mm not counting the leads which make it 6mm x 7mm.  I should be able to fit them onto the laser PCB and bypass any problems of killing those tiny little tact switches.

Heres a pic of the ones I was using tonight:
Thats an 801 connector (9mm OD) and a piece of 26AWG wire for reference.
My only concern now is how hot the damn thing gets, is that normal?  It gets too hot to touch after about 2.5 seconds of use on the 4ohm resistance coil atomizer.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 11 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Topic: Vaping with eCigarettes  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC