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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  The f13 Radicalthon  |  Topic: Planescape Torment: Angst in the Afterlife 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Planescape Torment: Angst in the Afterlife  (Read 30989 times)
NowhereMan
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Reply #35 on: August 28, 2009, 08:11:24 PM

Eh, I took it as something of a taking responsibility for your actions. Your incarnation was a nice guy but the whole game was about trying to redeem yourself, going up against previous incarnations and trying to do the right thing to make up for it. Dropping down into the Blood War was just a continuation of that, just more having to deal with shit your previous incarnations did in order to make amends. I guess if you take the attitude that they're different people it seems pretty unfair but you've really got to remember that they were all still you.

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
Koyasha
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Posts: 1363


Reply #36 on: August 29, 2009, 01:51:15 AM

I also think that the ending is what the Nameless One was trying to avoid all those years ago when he first went to Ravel.  He had a reason to want to not die, ever, and I get the distinct sense it was because he was trying to avoid an otherwise inescapable fate.

But in the end, PS:T is a quest to achieve death, and the time you spend as that final incarnation is insignificant compared to the rest of your existence.  They're not different people, they're the same individual, and the Nameless One's final disposition is the sum result of all his incarnations all the way back to the original.  If you've been mostly an evil asshole most of your life, losing your memory, adopting a puppy and being nice to everyone for a month isn't going to change what happens to you.

I can understand not liking the ending when the game sets things up throughout most of the game to make you think one thing then pulls an unpleasant fuck you twist to it, but really there was nothing surprising or unexpected about the ending in PS:T.  Everything was pretty much as you would expect from the story before it, the entire story being about the journey to achieve that death.  The only thing that slightly bugs me about it is that the game in general takes on a strong Dustmen-like philosophy because of this, where you learn in a way that life is a process of learning how to die.

-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
Ailanreanter, Arcanaloth
Xilren's Twin
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Posts: 1648


Reply #37 on: August 29, 2009, 09:39:31 AM

I like happy endings, or at least endings that aren't a huge fuck you. So...

1. My friends get to live this time. No seriously. I played the good guy and took care of my allies, so this "life" around they shouldn't have to pay. Yes I know you can raise them at the end, but still. Cmon. Big ol fat lack o justice here.

2. This incarnation wasn't an asshole. So chucking me into the blood war after I die was a nice big ol kick in the balls. All the shit that happened before wasn't me. Not my fault. I don't have to pay.

Really it boils down to me feeling like how I played TNO didn't fit what happened to him in the end. It wasn't "fair" and since this is a game, my sense of fairness is right on top unlike real life where I can be ok getting the fat shaft, because well, thats life.

So overall, I really enjoyed the game, and wanted to thank you for poking my interest in it, but the ending cheesed me a little.
My hide remains chapped, sir.

Hmm,  the first time i played the game i felt as if the ending fit the whole tone of the game.  There was never any way it was going to end well, becuase the entire journey was about trying to figure out what i had done wrong   What was your answer to the "what can change the nature of man" question?  For most people, the answer is "regret"  (though others might choose "faith" or "hope") but Regret for all the the things done in your previous incarnations is what it's all about.  This last incarnation lives a few days at most, compared to the hundreds of years (if not thousands) of past incarnations and all they have done to the multiverse.  Lets face it, most of the memories you recover are not from pleasant people, and the things you've done to your companions like Ignus and Deionarra... you've been a naughty, and very selfish boy.

Not to mention that the "good" you do as you play through is still utlimately all about yourself.  Very little is done for the greater good as the whole.

Recoginzing the problems with my cursed existances, ending up the blood war is about the most I could hope for

"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
TheWalrus
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Reply #38 on: August 29, 2009, 12:16:22 PM

Oh I get all that. Doesn't mean I have to like it!  why so serious?

vanilla folders - MediumHigh
Sheepherder
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Reply #39 on: August 31, 2009, 09:18:12 AM

You bought a game subtitled "Torment" for the love and kittens at the end?
Xilren's Twin
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Posts: 1648


Reply #40 on: September 08, 2009, 06:53:24 PM

The downward spiral of Curst

We portal in to the Outlands at the gate town of Curst.   This town sits very close to one of the outer planes, in this case the red prison demonic plane of Carceri, and has a permanent gate to that plane.  Gate towns are precariously balances by their inhabitants’ alignments: if too many people act chaotic and evil, the whole town may slide into the plane itself.  If the town acts too good and lawful, it may slide away from the plane and lose its gate.  Why anyone would want to live in this hell hole is beyond me.

I’m looking for the Deva that has knowledge about where my mortality lies, and in asking around, it seems there is a Deva held below the town in a prison.  The mayor of this burg won’t see me, so I will have to find another way in.  There is also a plague in town and a bunch of lying backstabbing residents: makes for a nice vacation spot I suppose.

In the local watering hole, the bar tender Tainted Barse tells me I can get the “key” to the prison, but it’s not a physical key but a password of sorts.  It is broken into 5 pieces and each is magically sealed to a person, so I couldn’t torture it out of them even if I wanted to. To get the first part of the key, he wants me to help save his daughter from some slavers.  To get more info, I need to talk to a former Harmonium officer named Marquez here in the bar.  He tells me where to look, so we travel to an alley where some soldiers are attempting to enslave this girl, and have to kill them off to save her.  Marquez reveals he was glad I killed them because they were Harmonium troops who betrayed what their faction is all about.  He tells him to next seek out Kitla for part 2, and gives me the first part of the key: “Such place eternal justice had prepared for those rebellious…”

Kitla seems to be a moneylender of some type who needs me to settle an argument over an inheritance between two brothers, so they will get off their butts and pay her.  The two brothers are the local Smith and Distillers, and while the smith seems blunt, simple and straightforward, the distiller is more of an oily sort who tries to convince me to side with him.  I review the document and their father really didn’t specify as to the exact split of the inheritance, so I give the documents to Kitla instead. Kitla’s part of the key is “…here their prison ordained in utter darkness.”

Next is Nabat, an agel faced man.  He says the town dump is run by a man named Kyse and a local gang has heard that there is treasure buried in the dump and want to rob him.  He wants me to stop them.  I talk to the dump owner, who seems remarkably clean, vital and vibrant for this town.  He asks me to try and talk the gang out of their plan as there really isn’t anything buried under his junk, so I try it but the gang leader will have none of it.  I get back the dump and fight off the gang.  When I report my success to Nabat, he is pleased because the gang was his former gang who kicked him out.  He planted the rumor of the gold buried in the dump to kick off this whole sequence of events.  His part of the key is “their prison set”.

Dallan asks me to investigate a political problem a Gith named An’izius is having.  I find him in the north part of town, and he wants to frame his rival Siabha for plotting to have him attacked so she can be arrested.  I go talk to Siabha, and she offers to double my fee if I instead tell the guards just the opposite: that An’izius paid me to attempt to kill her.  I talk to him again, and he again offers to double my fee, and then again so does she.  Finally, I track down a guard captain and turn them both in for plotting to kill the other.  He agrees to arrest them both only because eliminating them increases his political control in the town.  I return to Dallan and he is pleased because both of them were political rivals (and allies) that he has now removed.  His key is: “as far removed from the gods and light of heaven”.

Lastly, I talk to Dona who seems to be a bitter old woman.  It seems she attempted to summon a fiend and was prevented.  She wants me to complete the summons and free the fiend.  I head to a grain silo and at the top find an arcane symbol on the floor.  I complete the summons and in pops a fifteen foot tall demon with 4 arms, 2 that end in huge pincers (don’t have my monster manual handy so I can’t remember what it’s called).  Before I free him, I ask his intentions and he refused to promise not to harm anyone.  He does offer me a magic weapon for his freedom (axe Heartgrinder +2, 3-10 plus 1-6 electric).  I let him go and return to Dona.  She is pleased as she can now use this fiend to get back at her enemies and gives me the last part of the key: “as from the center thrice to the utmost pole.”

So the whole thing reads: ”Such place eternal justice had prepared for those rebellious; here their prison ordained in utter darkness; their prison set as far removed from the gods and light of heaven as from the center thrice to the utmost pole.”

Now that’s a key!
Rest up, level up, and Barse will transport me to the underground part of Curst.
(Me 13, Morte 9, Dak 8/9, Anah 8/10, Nordom 9, Grace 9).

There’s a bunch of fiends under the earth to battle through, and oddly enough, I find what appears to be vats for brewing up more minor fiends.  An Abashi leader tells me this town is on the brink of sliding into Carceri itself and I think they are preparing down here.  Past the fiends is a mine area which has many prison guards.  I hew through a bunch of them and eventually find the Deva Trias chained in a circle of power.  The town is using his power to run the prison itself, and he doesn’t seem real fond of either Morte or Grace.  This angel’s wings are charred and broken, yet he still radiates peace and love.  He tells me his mind his also chained so much as his body is, but that if I can return to him his celestial weapon, his sword, he could break the chains and help me.  He gives me the magic words to pass beyond a rune door to reach the prison itself.

Onward to the prison proper, which is arranged in 3 circles.  Fighting my way through a ton of guards, I eventually reach the center room and find the sword embedded in it’s own magic circle.  It is protected by a demon named Cassius, a grossly fat being, but looks can be deceiving.  He tells me that he is a living weapon, able to take the form of any creatures doom and has served the abyssal lords for eons.  I ask if he could slay even one such as I, and after examining me, he thinks that he could but it would be a dread fight.  In order to take the sword, I can either challenge him with my wits, speed, or strength, so being the super genius that I am, I choose wits.  He asks me three riddles, and I answer them correctly and he vanishes and I take the sword.  Removing the sword triggers what can only be described as a prison riot.  Guards and prisoners are fighting everywhere, so I take the opportunity to drop some fun AOE spells on groups and we kill everything in our path on the way out.  I love the spell effects in this game.

I return to Trias and free him, and he offers me a boon.  I choose knowledge and ask about my mortality.  While Trias says he doesn’t know where it is, he says I should seek out a fiend named Fhjull Forked Tongue as he does, and he is currently under a magical obligation to do charity.  He tells me of a portal to the north and the key is a broken link of chain, then he bursts through the ceiling and departs.

On to the further reaches of the outlands in our magical mystery tour of the multiverse.


"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
Furiously
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Reply #41 on: September 14, 2009, 07:58:41 PM

I loved the cutscenes from this part of the game.

Xilren's Twin
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Posts: 1648


Reply #42 on: September 15, 2009, 06:49:30 PM

We are treated to a cut scene of a giant skeleton lying on the sandy ground of the Outlands, and fine ourselves in a harsh desert.  We have to battle our way through various fiendish creatures, some of whom are quite tough and have high spell resistances, and require +2 or better magic weapons to hit.  Having just fought through the entire Curst prison guard ranks, we’re running a little low on spells but managed to work our way to the head of the giant skeleton.  A door there leads into the earth, and we find the home of Fhjull Forked Tongue.

This being is none to pleased to see anyone, but is especially upset to see Falls from Grace since she is one of the chaotic evil Tanaari, immortal enemies of the lawful evil Baatezu.  They argue about the nature of what is more evil.  He holds that the chaotic evil is not real evil but simple bestial instinct, where Grace maintains that planned evil without passion is worthless.  So which is superior, highly efficient evil or wild and passionate evil?  Um, focus people!

Fhjull was apparently a hotshot lawyer in the lower planes, an advocate infernus, but he tried to entice Trias into signing an infernal contract only to find that the Deva had lied to him, tricked him and he was now bound by his own contract to give aid and do good deeds.  Furious at this his demonic brothers charred his wings and drove him from his home plane, and now he hides here under this skeleton of Ul-Goris, a massively powerful being who’s bones still hold enough power to shield him from magical scrying eyes.  Knowing that Trias sent me to him he asks if I killed the betrayer, because if I did, he would be free of his contract with him.

I ask him about my mortality and he knows of the Fortress of Regrets but his is delighted to be able to truthfully say he doesn’t know where it is and therefore can’t help me.  Instead I ask if he knows someone who does know where it is, which he angrily answers that he does; the pillar of skull sin Baator.  I can reach this place by taking a portal under the hand of this giant skeleton.  He keeps hoping I will make a mistake that will lead to my death, but I remember to ask him more importantly, how can I leave Baator once I get there, and he tells me I need knowledge and to take a piece of obsidian to cut my tongue in a certain place    I also make him give me a bunch of high level spells (Stygian ice storm, acid storm, blade storm) and rest in his place.  Boy is he glad to see me go.

Leaving his “house” and taking the portal under the giant skeletal hand, we have a cut scene of Baator and land in this awful place.  This plane is chock full of fiends and battling through them is tough (see above Spell Resistance and needing magic weapons).  After a few fights, I just leave my group and run to the area transition (which is totally cheeseball but I wasn’t enjoying those fights anyway).  Knowing that I had “rescued” Morte from this pillar before, I decide to leave him well away from it before I go talk to it.  The pillar is composed of hundreds of rotting heads, each babbling away in their own languages.  The group speaks to me as a chorus and lets me know that for any question I ask it, a price must be paid.  I ask where the Fortress of Regrets is, and it wants to know the location of Fhjull Fork Tongue in exchange.  I lie to it and tell it he lives in a small artificial constructed demi-plane that occasionally appears in Sigil and they believe me.
The skulls tell me that the key to the portal is Regret, and I must write on of a piece of my flesh with my blood.  But, they don’t know where the portal is; only three knew where the portal is, myself, someone already beyond the portal, and someone I have already met.  They know of me and my condition but cannot help me more than that, and say I must do battle with the third, the liar: Trias the Betrayer.  That so called angel was lying his wings off to me!

Leaving the pillar area, I cheesball run through the sands of baator until I find the portal I use to get back to Fhjull’s house in the outlands.  He informs me that the portal back to Curst is located under the arse end of the skeleton, and after resting up, I depart.  Arriving back where Curst was is a bit of a shock; the town is gone.  All that is left standing is some foundation stones, and the demon from the cursed box that I dismembered back in Sigil!  Uh oh.  One big fight later, I talk to the heads impaled on the gate to Carceri chant “gone gone, lost to the betrayer, lost to the light, lost to it’s own hatred, slid into the red prison”.  Apparently freeing Trias caused all kinds of havoc to break loose and the whole town slid over into the plane of Carceri.

Through the portal we go and I find the town of Curst in much worse shape than I left it in.  Dozens of fiends wander the streets attacking anyone they find. I locate the dump caretaker who tells me how Trias dragged them all to their doom, and I must smite him down plus get the town to recant it’s treachery to save it.  He tells me that the more people I can convince to believe in forgiveness and helping each other, the weaker the Deva will become.  So off I go to inspire these jerks to do good deeds.

I find two men trapped under a huge wagon which is slowly crushing them to death.  Tovus the former mayor, a haughty arrogant son of a Gith, and Berrog, a common man.  Berrog tells me to save the mayor, and the mayor tells me yes, save his ass because he is important!  I save Berrog as the mayor selfishly led the town to this state, and I need good people to save it.

While battling through the town, I also save convince a mob to spare an official who used to sign execution orders. I talk a man out of using this opportunity to take slaves and using himself and his guards to help fight the demons. I talk a local guard commander out or organizing the looting of a warehouse to help with the defense of the town. Find a bunch of anarchists in the warehouse led by Ebb Creakknees from Sigil, who want to use this chaos to overthrow the government structure and talk them into helping him fight the frigging demons that are killing the people first.  Save Jasilya from thugs, again.  Save the guy in the distillery. And kill a metric ton of demons (who are worth a good chunk of XP).

Eventually, I make my way into the city hall, and fight my way up several levels to the top floor, to confront the deva Trias.

Trias asks me what do I hope to accomplish.  I ask him why did he lie, and he says he was but giving me directions I could understand, and what right did I have to truth anyway.  I ask why he did this to the city, and he tells me that betraying this city of betrayers seals his compact with the lower planes.  His whole goal is he wants to raise an army to attack his home plane of Celestia, and hiring a demonic one was the easiest path.  As far why he wants to attack a plane of goodness and light, he thinks the only way to end the Blood War is to take that war to the gates of paradise itself.  I incredulously ask if he thinks he will accomplish good by betraying his homeland, and he tells me that the real betrayal is cowardice.  By refusing to lead the host of light to stop the blood war, his father and the others of Celestia betrayed their purpose.  When his father uncovered what he set out to do, his cast him from Mount Celestia, burning his wings in the process.  Trias maintains that he truly believes in good, which is why he must betray it to force its hand.  And now, we battle.

Trias summons in some helpers, and we have at it in a battle royale.  Eventually, I make him yield (one death in the process but I can raise my guys).  He asks me to vow to spare his life, and I do.  He tells me that the portal to the Fortress in the Mortuary!  And that the key is regret written on my skin in my own blood using my left index finger.

I ask what he will do, and he says he will continue his efforts, so I ask if he has forgotten the face of his father and tell him that the upper planes are the home of justice, beauty, goodness…and forgiveness.  I suggest that if he admits his error and begs for forgiveness he can be redeemed.  Even though his is an arrogant son of a Demigod, he decides there is truth in my words and will do it.  He departs and leaves me the spell ‘Celestial Host’.

With his departure, and the good deeds done by the town folk, we get a cut scene of the entire town of Curst being enveloped in a magic bubble and traveling back to the outlands.

As for me and my companions, we head back to Sigil.

"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
Xilren's Twin
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Reply #43 on: September 22, 2009, 05:36:58 PM

Signing Off from Sigil.

Having come back from my tour of the Outlands, I take the opportunity to visit the old town a bit.  Selling loot, buying spells, lots of healing items, and tattoo’s and resting up..  I also go see what’s become of Old Mebbeth since I know now she was also Ravel.  She is there, but looks quite ill.  I ask her if she knew she was Ravel and she thinks she dreamed that, but she was content with Mebbeth’s life as a local healer and midwife.  There were three kind things she wished to do: free the Lady of Pain, she wanted me to live, and she wanted her daughter to have a good life.  She asks if I will give her one of the black barbed seeds I obtained in her thorny maze, to preserve the unity of the rings. I do, she winds it into her hair, then dies peacefully.

Next we travel the mortuary and I fake my way inside.  Here we are, back where this all started for me.  Just slightly north of where I first game to in this incarnation, the portal exists.  I peel off the skin of my forearm, and go to inscribe a regret on it.  I decide to write that I regret that my companions had to suffer for me and the portal opens.  I ask each of my companions if they are ready to go, and this triggers Morte and Dak’kon to share some information with me they had kept to themselves until now: we have done this before.

Morte tells me that I, him, Dak’kon, Deionarra, and a blind archer went through the portal before but it did not go well.  We all ended up separated from each other and fighting for our lives.  Since we were obviously defeated by whatever is in there, he is afraid to do it again.  He remembers that it is huge maze like plane full of shadows.

Dak relates how the five walked the path to the fortress and each died their own death.  Dak died the death of faith.  Morte died the death of courage.  Deionarra died the death of grief, the blind archer died the most merciful way, the death of the body, and I died the death of memory.  He says the shadows in this place suffer, and they know how to torture you with what has wounded your heart too.  I ask him about both this former trip and myself, and he tells me that Dieonarra could not be saved because it was not my will that she be saved; I apparently wanted her to die there.  He also tells me that my former self was not like I am now; he didn’t care about anyone and both he Morte are glad they had the chance to know this version of me.

I ask everyone if they are ready, and they are all willing to follow me into this dark place, and through the portal we go.  Cutscene.  The Fortress of Regrets is located on the Negative Material Plane, on a huge span of dark rock floating in the ether.

I arrive…alone.  I have no idea where my companions are and can only hope that we can find each other again.  I am out side the fortress proper, and in exploring around, I find the ghost of Dieonarra waiting for me.  She implores me to leave or I will die, and not just the simple death of memory, but may truly die as this place is cut off from the reset of the planes by the shell that surrounds it.  I learn from her that when I die in the planes, another life is claimed in my place and the soul of that victim comes to this fortress as a shadow, seeking vengeance.  Since I cannot leave this place, I tell her I have to enter the fortress and seek my mortality.  She blesses my wedding ring and lets me know that inside the fortress are some great clocks, and they were my key to escaping last time I was here.

There is a cutscene showing the opening of the great door to the fortress, and also a scene showing where the transcendent one (my immortality) summons Ignus and sends him forth to kill us.

Inside the fortress is a variety of odd looking machines and items, and it’s full of greater shadows which attack me as soon as they sense me.  (Getting through here as a mage is not easy b/c if you don’t try and take them one at a time, they close on you and keep interrupting your spell casting; plus, there’s a LOT of them and they hit hard.  I tried several strategies and after killing off like 2/3rd of them, had basically run low on spells and healing potions so for about the last 1/3 I ran around them since by then I knew what I was looking for).

I find a huge clock that looks partially melted.  I know I have seen one like this before, but not this specific one.  In other places, I find war relics that catch my attention.  They are surrounded by dust but it looks like there is a set of footprints where some visited it within a few years.  Each has many controls but I find 1 level that has an “X” scratched on the metal surface beneath it, and I have strong feeling that it will help me leave.  I pull the lever it the machine disintegrates and then I too begin to fade…

I see a scene before me where the Transcendent one confronts Anah.  He derides her and claims that she thinks of love for me, but I do not feel the same way about her.  If she will but give me up, she can leave.  Anah tells him that I matter more to her than life, “then die!” he responds and promptly kills her.

I return to myself in a different part of the fortress, still among the shadows.  I fight and run my way to another war relic, and pull the marked lever.  This time I see Dak’kon refuse to leave and he battles 7 greater shadows until he falls.

Return, repeat and now I see Falls from Grace face the transcendent one.  He offers to let her leave because when I am slain I will only lose my memory, and she respond there are things she does not want me to forget…   So he kills her too.

Once more to the relics and I see Nordom face my immortality.   Since I freed him and gave him identity and purpose, he is dedicated to defending my and will not let me die while he lives.  He takes on the transcendent one and falls.

After that relic, I eventually a clock whose hands point in a certain direction that I feel will help me, and fighting and running that way, eventually reach a portal.  This portal takes me to a room with three statues of me, and pool with a glowing crystal in the middle.  Ignus appears to try and stop me, but since I know I was his former teacher I quickly snuff his flames.  Touching the crystal in the center of the pool, I pass out.

I come to in a room that has three more versions of me in it, arguing over what should be done with me.  They are named the Good incarnation, the Paranoid, and the Practical.

The practical version of me says I must surrender my will to him so he can possess my body as it is the only way we can leave this place.  He claims he alone has the knowledge necessary to win free of here, but I tell him that cannot be true as he attempted to do this before and was defeated.  In questioning him, I learn that he is the version which lead Deionarra to her death.  He brought her here intentionally so she would die because he needed a set of eye in the negative material plane and only the dead can survive here long.  After all, that worked didn’t it?  He is also the version which picked Morte off the pillar of skulls and convinced Pharod to get the bronze sphere because he told Pharod it would save him from being consigned to the pillar of skulls himself: a lie.  I tell him that I have the sphere and ask him what it is.  He says it is a dead sensory stone that holds the last memories of the first of us.  With it, he hopes to answer the question all of us want to know, why has this all happened?  I leave him for now.

The paranoid version of me says I stole his body and I must give it back.  This version of me is the one that attempted to set fire to the legacies, was mazed by the Lady of Pain, killed the linguist and stole the face of the dream maker.   I use the dead language of Uyo to calm him and convince him that we are one (since only he knows the language) and if he merges with me he will finally have peace, and he does so. (+1 STR +1 CON).

The good version of me lives a long life as a cartographer walking the planes until eventually shadows killed him.  I ask why these three are here and he says that when we die, traces of us are left in the mind and that these three must have been the strongest traces.  Knowing this, it is possible that the first of us may still be buried in my mind, and following this line of thought, I eventually come to realize that HE was the first.

I ask him WHY he did this; why did we try to strip our mortality and live forever?  He admits that when alive, he knew that when he died we would not being going to a paradise.  He lived a live of evil so dark that the evil done by all the other incarnations of us is but a drop in the ocean compared to evil of the first.  The torment of the lower planes is what awaited us at death’s door.    He seems calm as he relates all this.  Eventually, he learned that what could change the nature of man was regret.  He came to regret the great evil he had done, and to try and make up for it, but it was too late.  He was running out of time to undo the damage he had done, so that is what prompted his effort to seek out Ravel and try and split off his mortality.  His goal was try to live long enough to make amends for the evil he had done, but when the ritual was complete and Ravel tested his immortality for the first time…he forgot everything!  And thus began our cycle of endless torment.

He tells me that once he merges with me, I will recover all of these memories over time.  He asks me did I LIVE during my brief life?  Was it worth it?  I tell him it seemed short, but I enjoyed it and don’t wish it to end and he merges with me (+1 WIS).  I know it will take a long time to sort through the memories now within me.

I examine the gold sphere in my inventory and use it.  My view of it changes; I know it to be the repository of my last memories before I met Ravel.  I clasp the sensory stone and feel regret and it peels apart into drops of tears.  Each one that touches me stirs a new memory: of lost love, of forgotten pain, of the ache of loss, until I feel I am being crushed by the mountains of regret I feel.  So much regret, so much damage done to others, so much and entire fortress may be built from such.  Through the pressure of the regret I feel the presence of the first incarnation, steadying me and suddenly, I remember my NAME!
Such a simple thing, nothing dramatic or inspiring and not what I thought it would be.  Knowing my true name I have gained back perhaps the most important part of me.  The mark of torment on my arm has become disconnected from me now, so I peel it from my skins and now know I can use it powers against my foes if needed.

I return to the practical incarnation and inform him I will not surrender my body to him, but he will surrender his will to me!  He laughs and seeks to engage me in a battle of wills, but with everything I know and have been through, he is subsumed by my will and merges with me.  Turns out he was lying again; he did not know how to leave this place.  (+1 INT +1 WIS)

After the three incarnations are gone, Deionarra appears to me again. She asks me what I want, and I tell her I am ready to face my mortality.  I also tell her the truth of what I did to her and why I let her die, and I am sorry.  She asks if I love her, and I tell her I have come to love her as I have known her now in this life.  She forgives me, and opens the way.

I am what appears to be the top of the fortress and the bodies of my companions are spread about.  The transcendent one appears.  I ask what he did to my friends, and he says that all of them were given a choice, and they chose to die for me. I tell him that we were not meant to be separated and that all the planes have suffered because of it.  I ask him why he has tried so hard to prevent me from reaching him, and I claim that he fears me.  I ask him why he stays here in this fortress.  He claims it is by choice and his power maintains this place, but I say it is nothing but a prison.  I think he has to stay because this fortress is what sustains him, not the other way around.  I tell him that we are linked still and if I ever were to truly be destroyed, so would he.  I tell him I finally have a weapon that will accomplish this task and show him the blade of the immortal, made with a drop of my blood by the agent of Chaos.  Since here we stand outside the planes, if I use it to end my life, it will finally end.  I tell him plainly that if he does not merge back with me, I will use it and destroy us both, and finally, after centuries of existence, regret and loss, my mortality merges with me and I am whole once again.

I return to my companions to raise them from the dead.  Morte pops up before I do so; he’s already dead so faking it is part of him.  I tell him I must finally go and pay my price and he cannot come with me.  I raise Anah and those she wants me to stay she knows I cannot.  Dak’kon says he followed me to settle his great debt and now it is done.   Falls from Grace marks me and promises that she will eventually seek me out wherever I end up, and Nordom asks where I am going, as he wants to follow and protect me since I helped him find his identity.  I tell him where I am going he cannot follow and send my companions back to Sigil.

Once alone, a flaming portal opens upon me and I am consumed.  I awake in a desolate landscape to the sounds of battle.  I take up a bladed mace from the ground, impale my journal on a sharp rock, and go down to finally take my place where I should… the place I deserved…eternally battling fiends and devils in the endless conflict of the Blood War.


"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
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Reply #44 on: September 25, 2009, 05:58:19 AM

Post Morte-m

Having exorcised the ghost of RPG’s past, I wanted to throw up some of my thoughts as to why PS:T was enjoyable to me.  Even for it’s day, it was a very different style game and it’s a shame more people didn’t get a chance to try it.

Number one reason I liked it was the story itself.  Most RPG plots are pretty uninteresting when you get right down to it; they almost always boil down to you, the righteous hero, being the only one you can stop the grand evil  foozle from carrying out his dastardly plan.  You fight your way through increasingly difficult challenges (which of course power you up with levels, stats, and gear) until you get to face the big bad in the final showdown.  Often times, to attempt to give the narrative some emotional punch, you have to rescue/avenge your love/family as part of the reason you begin your quest.  And if you die along the way, game over – reload your last save.  Sometimes the big bad is a dragon, or a king, or a wizard, or a demon, etc but generally there’s not much doubt who’s the good guy and who’s the bad guy.  Been there, done that, hundreds of times.
The Nameless One’s story is interesting because it’s different.  He’s lived hundreds of lives and done tons of stuff most can only dream of…and he can’t remember most of it.  The way the story is slowly revealed works b/c you want to know more about this guy.  And one of the reasons they can pull this off is by NOT letting you choose your race, gender and class like a typical RPG.  You’re locked in to being a specific character and that lack of choice of who you are makes the story work better.

PS:T’s story stands a lot of traditional RPG trappings on it’s head.  First off is the setting.  You’re dead when the game opens, and when you “come to”, you are already beyond the “real world” in the outer planes.  D&D’s take on Alignment choices, and what happens after you die on the Prime Material Plane gets a full workout in this game in a way I don’t think I have seen before or since.  Other than another old game, Escape from Hell, this isn’t material you usually see as the backdrop for an rpg, but it is something that I think allowed the writer a lot of creativity.  The outer planes can be a place of powerful beings, dread artifacts, bizarre politics, fantastic landscapes, etc that just don’t fit well even in D&D’s version of the “real world”.  The idea of traveling between widely diverse planes is something that I think would make great fodder in a MMORPG because of their scope.  In my imaginary design doc for the one game to rule them all, being able to travel to other planes/dimensions that have actually different in game rules I think would be a lot of fun and again, allow for a lot of creativity.  

PS:T also takes the standard beginning rpg trope of “you have amnesia” and makes it work in the overall context of the story.  The whole point to the game is figuring out who you are, and why you are stuck in this cursed existence.  And yes, it’s all completely your own fault.  You aren’t the hero in this story; you’re the bad guy who’s caused all the problems.  No matter how “good” you try to be, in the end, you know there’s only one way out: to finally face up and accept your well earned punishment.  No saving the princess (your one true love is already dead, thanks to you, and the two other females who care about you can’t ever be with you),  no town celebrations (no one other than you and your friends has any clue what is going on and probably never will), no riding off into the sunset to relax before you are called forth again, no great power or treasure.  In short, no happy ending, but rather an appropriate one.  If they had somehow caved in to try and make a happy ending work in this game, where you can bring Deionarra back, or get to go to one of the upper planes for the good deeds had done, it would have been a real letdown to me and rang hollow.

Immortality is a subject that sometimes is over used as a plot device in rpg’s; after all, how many games have had evil wizards or mad kings doing great evil to try and gain immortality, and you have to stop them. Or have an evil immortal (vampire, lich, mummy, demon) that has to be defeated, but usually those immortals are very two dimensional.  But in this game, immortality seems more of a curse than a blessing.  The question is, if you had known the costs of becoming an immortal, would you have gone through with it?  Based on the how the first incarnation acted, you know he would not have; the whole reason he was trying to become immortal was to do good and redress the wrongs he had caused.  Road to hell – good intentions.  You sometimes see immortality and it’s potential downsides dealt with in sci-fi and fantasy books, but not to many games.  While I’m not a big Torchwood fan, I did watch the mini-series Children of Earth a few months ago and they at least touched on some of the negatives of being an immortal with Capt Jack.  Not only did he have to reveal some of the horrible things he had done in the past to people who care about him now, he ended up having to betray his daughter and kill his own grandson as the only way to save the world.  I’d say regret informed a big part of his character by the end, and of course being immortal, he cannot escape it.

On a purely RPG game stance, PS:T still did a lot differently.  Only 3 classes, and in truth, the class you play is really not that important.  There’s no real reason you couldn’t have the same experience playing as a fighter vs mage, and you could change your class at any time just by talking to other characters.  I chose mage because I liked the spells and because I knew how important INT was in this game.  But the very first time I played it, I was a fighter all the way through.  

The lack of typical equipment helps add that difference too.  There’s really no armor for you or your companions other than what they start with; tattoo’s and magic items can add AC but “plate mail +5” is no where to be found  Same for shields and ranged weapons.  I think not having this kind of equipment changes the focus of a lot of the game.  How often in an RPG is the story really incidental to seeking out more powerful gear so you can kill stuff easier, so you can level up, so you can find better gear, repeat; heck, that’s almost the entirety of games like Diablo and most MMORPG’s like WoW.  Often times you might get a specific piece of gear that’s really good, and then you try to figure out how to plan your character so you can best use it.  So in that way, the equipment drives a lot of the game along.  Not so here.  Heck, most of your companions come with their own unique weapons that level up with them so other than giving them healing items and secondary stuff, gear just isn’t that critical.

But, they also took the time to but the same kind of story telling into the items that do exist as they did in the main story.  Does writing a few paragraphs on the background “stone gullet of X”, a minor artifact, make it functionally different than having a ring of poison immunity?  No, but it feels very different and supports the theme.  Yes, there are a few normal “Dagger +1” type items, but many more interesting ones.  Here’s one of my favorites;
AXE OF THE JESTER
Damage: 1-2 Slashing
Enchanted: ? [+3]
Special: ?
THAC0: ?  [+3]
Speed: 3
Weight: 2
Proficiency: Axes
Usably only by Fighters

The person who created this axe must have been mad or a genius. Only the most
skilled of smiths could have forged a weapon using Chaos Matter, the most
unstable and unpredictable element in all the planes.

Stories of this particular axe have been told and retold across the planar
universe. Heroic deeds of men defeating creatures of immense power simply by
touching the axe to the creature and of these same men dying horrible deaths
while doing simple every day tasks.

Zaknar the Simple - Defeated a devourer with a single swipe of this axe.
Crushed to death by a falling boulder in the vast plains of Tabor.

Garkon the Righteous - Struck by a mysterious discharge of energy while
fighting a cranium rat.

Kannas - Tradesman by profession. Buried alive as the stone wall the axe was
mounted on collapsed on him.

Kvry Matterson  - A child of only nine seasons, was not only able to ward off a
group of marauding fire bats, he even managed to kill 2 of them!

The list of tragedies and deeds goes on and on.

---------------------------------
And an Item:
FANGED MIRROR OF YEHCIR-EYA
(Minor Artifact)
Invokes "Soul Exodus"
Weight: 1

The Fanged Mirrors of Yehcir-Eya were the hope of an empire.

The last Great Matriarch of the Sea of Black Sand, Yehcir-Eya, found herself
slowly dying. Surrounded by rival nations that wished to claim her lands for
her own, Yehcir-Eya sought to choose one of the Lesser Matriarchs from the
surrounding nations and enter into an alliance, preserving her nation against
invasion. Yet she knew not which of the Lesser Matriarchs to trust.

Consulting her oracles, she asked them for a means of testing the hearts of the
Lesser Matriarchs. They told her to travel to the edges of the Sea of Black
Sand - there, where the shifting black sand gave way to slate, she would find
what she sought.

The Great Matriarch journeyed many leagues, travelling on foot until she
reached the edges of the Great Sea. There, her feet fell upon a great plate of
silvered glass the size of a courtyard embedded in the floor of the desert.

Her oracles instructed her to cut the great glass and fashion thirty-three
mirrors. These mirrors were sent to the Lesser Matriarchs of the surrounding
nations as gifts. The mirrors would test their hearts, the oracles predicted.

No one is certain what happened on that final night, but with every mirror that
was delivered, a Lesser Matriarch fell dead. There were wild tales of spectral
forms that crawled from the bodies of the Lesser Matriarchs as they gazed upon
the mirrors, and the howling cries as they strangled their owners.

In response to the assassination of their leaders, the surrounding nations
attacked the nation of Yehcir-Eya and razed it to the ground. The Fanged
Mirrors of Yehcir-Eya were scattered and lost.

According to several planar scholars, the Fanged Mirrors had the ability to
cause a soul to slip from its owner and take on physical form. Whether it was
because the Lesser Matriarchs were consumed by greed and a desire for conquest
or whether the great plate of silvered glass found on the edges of the Sea of
Black Sand was evil in itself, the mirrors created a vicious reflection of
their owners. Their souls took on substance and killed their owners.

The fanged mirror can be used against an opponent - when used, it will reflect
a spectral version of the target that will appear and attempt to kill him.
--------------------------------------------
In the same way, probably about half the spells are non standard D&D ones, and almost all the high level ones have their own mini cutscene graphics.  Casting meteor shower and watching as it pulls asteroids down from space through a portal to crush your foes makes it feel much powerful than simply lofting a fireball across a room at stuff.  Or summoning a celestial host, firing the mechanus cannon, etc.  Here’s two descriptions of level 9 spells to show you what I mean:

Abyssal Fury
Range: 50 feet
Duration: Instant
Speed: 9
Area of Effect: 1 creature
Saving Throw: see below

When compared to the Tanar'ri, at least the Baatezu are more civilized. There
is, perhaps, nothing more horrific than the unbounded fury of the Abyss. By use
of this spell, the ground shall split open and the victim dragged into
Baatorian madness. Welcome to Hell.

This spell opens a planar portal beneath a specified victim and drags them down
into the Abyss. The portal remains open even after the victim is swallowed in.
The only sound bystanders hear is the incessant screaming of the victim as
he/she is torn apart by the ruthless Tanar'ri. After what seems like only
a few seconds (which is more than an eternity for the victim in the Abyss),
the victim (or what's left of him) gets spit back out of the portal.
(1) If the victim makes a successful saving throw, he will get spit out of the
portal in 'one piece,' but while the victim sensed nothing at first, after a
split-second, all the Wrath of the Tanar'ri will surface. The victim will
suffer 5d10 pts. of damage as he suffers multiple 'delayed' attacks and slashes
from all angles.
(2) If the victim fails the saving throw, it is instant death.
All that is left are body parts.

-------------------------------------
Celestial Host
Range: 100 feet
Duration: Instant
Speed: 9
Area of Effect: 50 ft. x 50 ft. area
Saving Throw: None

While the various proxies and beings of the Celestial Planes are seen as the
embodiment of kindness, compassion, and benevolence, their might easily rivals
those of Baator or the Abyss. Woe to those who underestimate the power of the
Upper Planes!

When cast, a group of powerful phantasms are called to help eradicate all
enemies in a 50 ft. x 50 ft. area, as their combined attacks inflict 40 - 120
hit points of damage, with no saving throw possible. The phantasms represent
the some of the most powerful celestial beings from the Upper Planes: Astral
Deva (Mace of Disruption), Phoenix (Fire Storm), Solar Aasimon (Celestial Bow),
and a Gold Dragon (Energy Wave).

-----------------------------------

In all honest, while the items and spells are cool, most of the game is not spend in combat so you don’t use them nearly as much as you do in typical RPGs.  The few places in PS:T where you have to fight are some of my least favorite parts of the game.  But, the Modron cube dungeon is an excellent tongue in cheek commentary on typical RPG dungeons, so I enjoyed that for it alone.
It’s also worth noting that at the end of the game, you don’t have to fight the end boss (which again, is you).  You can, but you can also avoid it like I did.  When’s the last time that happened in an RPG?

Just some other quick ones since this is getting long:

Love the idea of the rats that get smarter as there are more of them.

The vast majority of XP is given though conversations, not combat, so you tend to level whether you are trying to or not.  Very few place to try and “grind” XP.

Your companion NPC’s all have significant backstories and many can be improved via your relationship with them.  They are well written characters very different from most RPGs.  They do banter with each other through out the game too.

Loved being able to die creatively as a plot mechanic.  I killed myself several times to solve certain quests.  Also like the fact that even if some in your party die, it’s not game over.  If you die in combat, you come back to life somewhere.  If your companions die, you can raise them.  In most rpg’s a character death or party wipe is annoying because you have to load and redo stuff.  No so here.

Liked the fact that they don’t do the big reveal at the end; you don’t ever find out what your name actually is, just that you know it.  In the same way, they leave the evil deeds you did during your first life to the imagination, which seems more effective.

Liked the fact that the most evil person you deal with (other than yourself) is an angel who got fed up with the celestial plane b/c they wouldn’t help out like he wanted them too.  Betrayal, hubris, arrogance, redemption.  Do the ends justify the means?

Also liked that the most evil of your incarnations is not a raving psychopath; it’s the “practical” one who is willing to do anything, no matter how “wrong”, to accomplish whatever goal he has.  He’s the one who intentionally manipulated Dieonarra’s love, for purely personal, but to his mind logical, reasons.  I forgot who said it, but some writer said that the best definition of evil was nothing more than absolute selfishness: viewing others as no more than tools to be of benefit to you, and caring not what consequences your actions have for others so long as you get what you want.  To throw in another example from that Torchwood mini-series, the British PM who would gladly lie to his own people so he could sacrifice 10% of his nation’s kids so he himself would survive and remain in power, and once the crisis was averted, sought to immediately blame others.

At any rate, I truly enjoyed playing through this game again.  Thanks to WUA for the inspiration.  To me it was more like a good book that had interaction rather than a typical computer game; others might see that as a knock but as long as the story is good, I like it.  There aren’t too many games I can think of that stand conventions on their head they way this one did, but when that is done well, it can be a rewarding and memorable experience.

Hope you all enjoyed reading.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 06:19:06 AM by Xilren's Twin »

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Reply #45 on: September 27, 2009, 09:08:14 AM

Thanks for the read. I'll never play PS:T, but I've always been curious about proclamations on how good the storyline was. Now I've got some insight into it.

gryeyes
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Posts: 2215


Reply #46 on: September 27, 2009, 10:49:32 PM

I think the end blurb is the best part. You should talk about more games.
bhodi
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Posts: 6817

No lie.


Reply #47 on: October 11, 2009, 08:59:38 AM

I enjoyed reading it, very much. I just completely forgot to post so.
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