Well that's that then (Mark Jacobs leaves EA)

[Threash]

Or just continue development on WAR, which at 500k accounts is certainly further in the red than they had anticipated given their investment but far from valueless. It is possible to steadily grow a MMO without that initial EQ1/WoW-style population explosion; EVE online did it. You can live in the MMO space without competing at WoW's level.

It's all academic anyway, nobody's shutting down a MMO with 500k accounts. Assuming they really have 500k accounts.

Where does that 500k number come from? last i heard it was 300k and that was before the three month subs ran out.

[Hayduke]

Or just continue development on WAR, which at 500k accounts is certainly further in the red than they had anticipated given their investment but far from valueless. It is possible to steadily grow a MMO without that initial EQ1/WoW-style population explosion; EVE online did it. You can live in the MMO space without competing at WoW's level.

It's all academic anyway, nobody's shutting down a MMO with 500k accounts. Assuming they really have 500k accounts.

Wut?  EA's last earnings report said they had 300k subs.  There might plausibly be even less now.

And the thing about mmogs which steadily grow is that they steadily grow.  They don't suffer precipitous drops and then a slow bleed for months on end.

[Arthur_Parker]

The massively piece I linked had some ex Mythic source talking about 500k, wishful thinking I believe, though WAR does launch in Taiwan on June 25th.

[sam, an eggplant]

OK, 300k then.

As for slowly growing, AoC had a precipitous drop at release and has been slowly growing for months now.

[Lum]

The massively piece I linked had some ex Mythic source talking about 500k, wishful thinking I believe, though WAR does launch in Taiwan on June 25th.

I am fairly sure that that ex-Mythic source wasn't on the distribution list for subscriber numbers. From what I heard internally, subscriber numbers weren't shared with the majority of the staff.

(No, it wasn't me. Based on what was said I'd suspect it was an ex-GM.)

[Tannhauser]

This news makes me very happy.  Not that MJ is unemployed, but my perception (could be wrong) was that he was the bottleneck of the game.  I laid the boneheaded design decisions at his feet.  Now my hope is that Bioware tinkers with WAR and mostly sorts it out.  They can use it as a test bed for SWTOR, trying out new things etc.

I just think MJ is passionate about MMO's and has incredible drive, but has no idea how to make good games and will not listen to those who do.

As a BIG fan of the Warhammer universe I am hoping the game gets an EQ2 makeover.  

Yeah, I'm an optimist on a cynical message board, go ahead and tell me what a dumbass I am.

[Threash]

OK, 300k then.

As for slowly growing, AoC had a precipitous drop at release and has been slowly growing for months now.

AoC has improved, WAR hasn't in any way shape or form.

[Merusk]

Obvious EA action is obvious.

I am far too lazy and sleepy to search, but I am almost positive that more than one of us predicted this exact outcome when the EA/Mythic deal was first announced.

We had a whole damn thread on it... including Mr. J showing up and saying, "No, no. I have promises. It won't be like that THIS time.  We're a completely different company than all those other guys it happened to."

[WayAbvPar]

Yeah that sounds about how I remember it. Welp.

[Fordel]

Can we Necro that thread just to post a smiley, or is that bad form? 

[Redgiant]

The massively piece I linked had some ex Mythic source talking about 500k, wishful thinking I believe, though WAR does launch in Taiwan on June 25th.

500k?? Um, no.

Maybe the freckle count on all subs, but not real subs still in the game.

All you need to do is troll the WHO and WA forums, general and server, to see a picture of some zergs but mostly emptiness/lack of population that nothing approaching 500k subs, even with one character each, would seem like.

There are multiple of the few remaining servers (from two players I still know, who collectively play a lot on two servers and somewhat on one other together) who have not seen appreciable population or ORvR activity in quite a while. SC and PQ on their two main servers have been dead even longer. There is just an increasing awareness that there is no living endgame to do, or no one to do it with.  Only Haves are still in it, the HaveNots don't even want bother trying.

That said, the MMO version of check kiting for subs might continue to hide whatever they want it to (for a while). I said many months ago that they would try to align new foreign market launches with strategic quarterly dates specifically to hedge against losing existing subs.

[Arthur_Parker]

The massively piece I linked had some ex Mythic source talking about 500k, wishful thinking I believe, though WAR does launch in Taiwan on June 25th.

500k?? Um, no.

There's a whole thread about subs in the WAR sub forum here, 800k registered users, 3 months later 300k subs, Russia launch, 3 months later 300k subs.

[slog]

You know, outside in the real world of business, when a person sells their smaller company to a much larger one, there is usually an unwritten agreement that the Owner/CEO will stay on for a year and then resign.   I guess I just don't see this as a big deal.

[Sjofn]

I think it's surprising, to me at least, because Mark always gave me the impression that he would cling to Mythic until the End of Days. And so this is kinda sad.

[ghost]

Anyone want to gamble on how long til they shut off the servers?  I'm guessing 4 months....

[UnSub]

The massively piece I linked had some ex Mythic source talking about 500k, wishful thinking I believe, though WAR does launch in Taiwan on June 25th.

500k?? Um, no.

There's a whole thread about subs in the WAR sub forum here, 800k registered users, 3 months later 300k subs, Russia launch, 3 months later 300k subs.

If sub numbers are growing, it is because WAR is being launched in new regions. It doesn't seem to be building in existing regions.

[Nebu]

Anyone want to gamble on how long til they shut off the servers?  I'm guessing 4 months....

I'll bet that they're down to 3 servers or less in North America within 6 months. 

[Trippy]

You know, outside in the real world of business, when a person sells their smaller company to a much larger one, there is usually an unwritten agreement that the Owner/CEO will stay on for a year and then resign.   I guess I just don't see this as a big deal.

This is different though. Mark and Mythic were initially put in charge of all of EA's MMOs. He wasn't a redundant CEO that was just hanging around till some options vested. He was leading an entire divison at EA as Senior VP. Unfortunately he botched WAR so badly that EA gave control of EA's MMOs to BioWare and at that point he *was* redundant.

[Ingmar]

WAR was too big a cockup to lay entirely at the feet of one or even two guys, really. It was a systematic failure, but of course, MJ was the guy who put the system together. I do feel a bit bad for him; DAOC was a nice bit of work for its time, but it seems from where I'm sitting like he and Mythic never really moved on from that kind of Wild West-y startup way of doing things and when you're talking about the kind of dollars and team sizes involved in something like WAR, it takes a lot of organization that working in a startup-y environment doesn't teach you.

Talking out of my ass, sure, but that's how it *seems* like things worked there from what I've seen.

[kondratti]

The world told Mark Jacobs what was needed to keep people playing.  He decided that people wanted scenario-less servers. 

[UnSub]

DAoC will outlive WAR.  Cruel, but true.

I actually kind of feel bad for Mark Jacobs.  Missteps?  Sure.  But underneath he always seemed like a passionate, well-meaning guy (as much as I can judge such things from viewing his Internet posts) who maybe got too emotionally invested.  That doesn't make him a monster.  He did bring us DAoC, which brought a lot of people a lot of enjoyment and showed PvP wasn't dead after UO.  For that alone, I wish him good luck. 

I know many people who will refuse to work with him or a company he is involved with for reasons that have nothing to do with the way he  posts on forums.

Reading between the lines of some of Sanya's comments, Jacob's does sound like a self-centred asshole to work for.

On one hand, the company he helped build has been taken off him and is likely to be consumed by a larger entity.

On the other hand, he talked a huge game for WAR and was stupid enough to put figures out there that could be later used against him. Ultimately he was hanged with his own rope.

[UnSub]

http://www.massively.com/2009/06/24/mythic-employees-shocked-at-mark-jacobs-departure/

In the end, my source thought this move would be the best for people working at both companies. "Bioware has a track record of really good launched titles, and Mythic has track record of MMO experience," they explained. "And I know there's a lot of people at Mythic that would really look forward to working on [BioWare's upcoming MMO Star Wars: The Old Republic]. People at Mythic have been working on MMOs for years and could add muscle to it, they could add really cool things to [BioWare's] MMO."

DON'T DO IT BIOWARE! DON'T BE FOOLED! 

BioWare appears to be making the non-MMO MMO. Mythic doesn't need to go anywhere near it.

[Kageru]

The warhammer alliance guys assumed this meant bioware employee's would be stopping work on SWTOR to come and resource / fix warhammer. I guess boundless optimism is required at this point.

[Margalis]

In the end, my source thought this move would be the best for people working at both companies.

Seems highly unlikely given that further "restructuring" and layoffs are almost certain.

[Triforcer]

DONT LET MYTHIC NEAR SWTOR.

Seriously, don't.  SERIOUSLY. 

[Ashamanchill]

The warhammer alliance guys assumed this meant bioware employee's would be stopping work on SWTOR to come and resource / fix warhammer. I guess boundless blind optimism is required at this point.

[Simond]

Can we Necro that thread just to post a smiley, or is that bad form? 

How about I just post one here, and we can pretend it's in the old thread?

[Arthur_Parker]

[chargerrich]

Anyone want to gamble on how long til they shut off the servers?  I'm guessing 4 months....

WAR will be alive 12 months from now... will it not suck then? No Idea, but the IP and exposure/cred the license gives is too much to shut down anytime soon.

[Sky]

Perhaps this is the start (midpoint?) of Bioware's death as a creative entity.

That happens the day you sign up with EA. You might get one or two nice titles while you still have a modicum of creative control and original staff in your original office, plus EA cash infusion and distribution. When has it gone well after that? Is it better to burn out or fade away?

[Arthur_Parker]

Wasn't sure which thread to put this in.

Executive Producer's Letter - Part 3

Everyone,

It is a time of change and progress here at Mythic. As we move forward, I want you all to know that our love of MMOs, our passion for the games we create, and our commitment to our fans is stronger than ever. Our studio’s strength has always come from its talented and dedicated team; Mythic is full of passionate, committed people who love MMOs and the games they make. I, personally, have been with Mythic for almost 10 years and look forward to what the studio will build and offer fans over the next 10 years!

We are committed to Warhammer, Ultima Online, and Dark Age of Camelot, and have solid plans for each game. I look forward to discussing our plans for of all of these games with you in the near future. This month, as promised, I’d like to start by sharing some more details from our plans for Warhammer’s continued development over the upcoming months.
....
Another area where we frequently receive feedback is population. Whether in terms of Realm balance or overall server population, this continues to be a very important issue for us. We're looking at some fairly radical approaches on how to best bring the population together. We want to ensure everyone is having fun, but we need to do so in such a way that further imbalances aren't created overnight as we have seen in the past. There are a lot of ideas on the table, but your satisfaction is our top concern.

I was expecting something major in part 3, but I didn't see much from a quick read.

[Morfiend]

We're looking at some fairly radical approaches on how to best bring the population together.

Oh my god, what a brilliant idea. They are going to merge some servers.

[sam, an eggplant]

Nah, that wouldn't be radical. My guess is that they plan to instance everything and put everybody on the same shard. Like guild wars.

[Shatter]

One giant server with ques to get in and max keep populations at 10 people per side!  Hey look we fixed crashing by 85%!

[Threash]

The sad thing is that their game simply can't handle the population required to make it fun.  Putting more people into their empty servers just means more people getting left out when their endgame reaches the extremely low population cap.