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Topic: Star Wars Episodes 1, 2, & 3 (Read 124711 times)
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Ratman_tf
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Posts: 3818
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First, we're told on a number of occasions that the Force, the Living Force at any rate, is the energy of all living things, that flows through all life, connecting everything that lives. Fine. Life is about attachment, it's about passion, it's about engagement. How can you possibly understand the Force by taking yourself out of life, by being detached from how almost all living beings exist? I can buy detachment as a mental skill, just as I argue to students that you make much better arguments for your own position by learning how to argue for positions other than your own. But detachment as an all-consuming way of life, as a permanent commandment?
But it's not about that. It's about unhealthy attachment. Where you beat the fuck out of some guy for stepping on your expensive shoes that you saved for months to buy, and that represent some sentimental hoobajoo, but in the end you just beat some guy over shoes. As has been said, the Jedi have the added responsibility of having all kinds of crazy powers. You step on a Jedi's shoes, and he cuts you in half with a lightsaber. A Jedi's wife cheats on him, and he uses force lightning to fry their asses. A Jedi gets in debt gambling on the podraces, and he uses his mind powers to convince the galactic mobsters that that other guy owes them the money. So the Jedi take attachment very seriously. They know it can lead to desperate places where the *bum bum bum* Dark Side can grab ahold of you. |
 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful." -Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation. |
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AutomaticZen
Terracotta Army
Posts: 768
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The whole no-attachment thing is complete fucking retardery though in two important respects (here I'm not talking Lucas, I'm going deep-geek inside the mythos and talking about it on its own terms).
First, we're told on a number of occasions that the Force, the Living Force at any rate, is the energy of all living things, that flows through all life, connecting everything that lives. Fine. Life is about attachment, it's about passion, it's about engagement. How can you possibly understand the Force by taking yourself out of life, by being detached from how almost all living beings exist? I can buy detachment as a mental skill, just as I argue to students that you make much better arguments for your own position by learning how to argue for positions other than your own. But detachment as an all-consuming way of life, as a permanent commandment? That way lies Sith. We had a small taste of grey in New Jedi Order, but that was retconned as Sith hiding really well. One of the Solo kids learns of a Sith who at the height of his awesome Sith power, was nothing more than a glorified middle manager. It's all in the codes: There is no emotion; there is peace. There is no ignorance; there is knowledge. There is no passion; there is serenity. There is no chaos; there is harmony. There is no death; there is the Force. and Peace is a lie; there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force will set me free. It makes me wish that the EU would introduce a third class of Force users, neither Sith nor Jedi--basically sensualists. Force-users who drink and fuck and eat and love, who immerse themselves in life. I dunno, I haven't read many of the books, maybe there's something like that already? They'd be Sith. Second, the Jedi have their position in the Republic because they're incorruptible cops, judges and soldiers combined into one. For that, I get the value of detachment: you wouldn't trust anyone else with that kind of authority if you thought they had strong interests in political outcomes, or self-interests in terms of getting rich. But, on the other hand, this is one reason that it's laughable when a celibate priest (of which there are obviously fewer than the Catholic Church would like to pretend) talks to Catholic couples about marriage. What does he know about it? Similarly, are you really going to accept the judgment of a Jedi cop when he or she knows shit-all about life the way that ordinary folks experience it? If you're a soldier or an ordinary policeman, you're obviously going to respect the badassery of the Jedi, but are you going to trust them, follow them with a whole heart? The detachment thing might work if the Jedi lived up in a bunch of caves somewhere far away from other beings, and wandered rootlessly from place to place. It doesn't work if they're sitting up in a giant fucking temple right near the heart of political power, noisily intervening in everything they take a fancy to intervening in. Naturally almost everyone hates and mistrusts them, because they don't know word one about real life and yet insist they should get to tell everybody else what to do.
The current series is essentially about this problem. As far as the average person is concerned, the difference between a Jedi and a Sith is almost immaterial. And since the Jedi aren't directly under the control of the government it becomes a question of 'when is that cult of telekinetic warriors training in the middle of our biggest city going to snap and kill us all? Maybe we should get those fuckers to toe the line.' |
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Kail
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2858
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First, we're told on a number of occasions that the Force, the Living Force at any rate, is the energy of all living things, that flows through all life, connecting everything that lives. Fine. Life is about attachment, it's about passion, it's about engagement. How can you possibly understand the Force by taking yourself out of life, by being detached from how almost all living beings exist?
Just because a greeting card says something doesn't make it true. Life is a biological process. Life isn't about passion; life sometimes contains passion, but it doesn't make much sense to say they're inextricably linked. There's plenty of life without passion. Plants don't form attachments. Microbes don't lust after their neighbor's flagella. Most animals don't have stable social relationships the way people do. Hell, a lot of people don't have much social contact, that doesn't make them honorary undead. And even if it did, I don't see how the only way to learn about something is to express those traits yourself. The field of psychology would fold up overnight if the only way to understand the mentally deranged was to be mentally deranged yourself. There's no prerequisite for aspiring cardiac surgeons to undergo a triple bypass to reeeeeeally understand it, nor do we require our automotive engineers to weigh three tons and be able to pull a trailer for ten miles. |
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Lakov_Sanite
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7590
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Sorry but EU means fuckall when it comes to the movies.
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~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
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Ratman_tf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3818
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Sorry but EU means fuckall when it comes to the movies.
But the EU has Plaid Jedi! You can't deny the Flannel! |
"What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful." -Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation. |
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DraconianOne
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2905
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Sorry but EU means fuckall when it comes to the movies.
Coruscant. That is all. |
A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
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WindupAtheist
Army of One
Posts: 7028
Badicalthon
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The EU has it's good points, but on the whole I just pretend it doesn't exist. As far as I'm concerned, after Vader threw Palpatine down that pit there was a thousand years of peace. Maybe Thrawn, then a thousand years of peace after he was dead. Certainly not an endless procession of half-baked warlords and superweapons and wacky alien species and more Sith and oops Palpatine came back as a clone again yadda yadda yadda.
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"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig." -- Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome." -- Me
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Slyfeind
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2037
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The EU has it's good points, but on the whole I just pretend it doesn't exist. Lucas would agree with you. I like the part where the EU describes C3PO as over 100 years old, then Lucas came along and said "Nah, Anakin built him." That was awesome! Best thing about the prequels? Lucas shitting all over the EU, sometimes on purpose, sometimes because he admits he's never read any of it. I love Star Wars. ^_^ |
"Role playing in an MMO is more like an open orchestra with no conductor, anyone of any skill level can walk in at any time, and everyone brings their own instrument and plays whatever song they want. Then toss PvP into the mix and things REALLY get ugly!" -Count Nerfedalot
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Broughden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3232
I put the 'shill' in 'cockmonkey'.
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The EU has it's good points, but on the whole I just pretend it doesn't exist. As far as I'm concerned, after Vader threw Palpatine down that pit there was a thousand years of peace. Maybe Thrawn, then a thousand years of peace after he was dead. Certainly not an endless procession of half-baked warlords and superweapons and wacky alien species and more Sith and oops Palpatine came back as a clone again yadda yadda yadda.
I agree...Emperor dies and everyone lives happily ever after. The End. Anyway why would the European Union want to create a stupid after wards storyline? Why does the EU care what happens in Star Wars? Fuck those frenchies! |
The wave of the Reagan coalition has shattered on the rocky shore of Bush's incompetence. - Abagadro
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Tebonas
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6365
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But then I was excited the European Union had Jedi, I felt more save all of a sudden!
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Samwise
Moderator
Posts: 19323
sentient yeast infection
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sigil
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1538
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Posted this in useless videos. I knew I should have posted this here :D
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Abagadro
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12227
Possibly the only user with more posts in the Den than PC/Console Gaming.
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"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
-H.L. Mencken
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UnSub
Contributor
Posts: 8064
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I just spent three hours of my life watching his "Phantom Menace" review and his Star Trek film ones. Apart from the last 2 minutes of TPM, it was fantastic. Plus his "ST: Insurrection" review is even more awesome in referring to an episode where Picard followed orders to yank a bunch of Native Americans off a planet, but completely reversed opinion when it came to attractive white people.
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Samwise
Moderator
Posts: 19323
sentient yeast infection
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Posted this in useless videos. I knew I should have posted this here :D
Yes, yes, you should have. Good work nonetheless.  |
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Abagadro
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12227
Possibly the only user with more posts in the Den than PC/Console Gaming.
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but completely reversed opinion when it came to attractive white people.
Don't forget the MILF. |
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
-H.L. Mencken
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WindupAtheist
Army of One
Posts: 7028
Badicalthon
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Oh man, don't get me started on Insurrection. These nauseatingly quaint folks that the movie clubs us over the head and tells us to love for no good reason have magic particles on their planet that can eliminate disease and double the lifespan of countless billions of people, but Picard doesn't want them relocated because apparently the immortality of a few hundred selfish pricks outweighs all that.
If word of that ever got out, I wonder how long it would be before there were "I wanna live 200 years!" riots in the streets of Federation cities. Screw that, I wonder how long it would be before all the Klingons and Romulans and shit banded together to invade the Federation and strip that planet of it's magic particles for themselves.
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"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig." -- Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome." -- Me
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UnSub
Contributor
Posts: 8064
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Azazel
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I believe that Anakin believed that if the Jedi found out, he'd be toast, but we're never told this, and even Padme told Anakin that Obi-Wan wanted to help him. He probably would have been given a harsh choice, to divorce Padme and not assoicate with her, or give up the Jedi, but we'll never know what Yoda's advice would have been, because Anakin continually lied about his relationship.
Apparently, according to the EU, Obi-Wan had a secret wife, too! In here, somewhere: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Obi-Wan_Kenobi  |
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Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
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It just reminds you that it's all utter pish. During this time, Chewbacca had his first recorded encounter with Jedi, as Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi had been assigned by the Galactic Republic to end the conflict on Alaris Prime. Under Jinn's tutelage, Chewbacca was able to successfully lead the colony to military and economic success. Kenobi and Chewbacca would eventually meet again in 0 BBY, though it is unclear whether the two recognized each other after not seeing each other for nearly 40 years.[20]
What that means is 'Ooops'. Don't be so Fucking Lame. The 4th film is now FULL of that shite. No-one recognises each other, despite having met multiple times for long periods previously. It's like a fucking Frasier episode. |
"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
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Tachyons did it. Mindwipes via time travel.
Wait.. wrong series.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Azazel
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The EU has it's good points, but on the whole I just pretend it doesn't exist. As far as I'm concerned, after Vader threw Palpatine down that pit there was a thousand years of peace. Maybe Thrawn, then a thousand years of peace after he was dead. Certainly not an endless procession of half-baked warlords and superweapons and wacky alien species and more Sith and oops Palpatine came back as a clone again yadda yadda yadda.
This, but without Thrawn. Who I simply know as "that blue guy in the white suit that people spooge about for some reason." |
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Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
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If you read the books back in High School you'd include Thrawn, too. Being older now, I'm sure they don't stand up but I haven't read them since. He was pretty bad ass, in that he was an effective villain instead of just your usual mustache-twirling douche. He was winning until the moment he died, and he died only because of a very stupid MacGuffin.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Azazel
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High school? Nope, I was well out of High School when Thrawn made his first appearace in some kind of roleplaying supplement (according to wookiepedia). So I was therefore in my twenties when I first saw the character, and he looks like some kind of reject retard GI-Joe villan with the blue skin and white uniform. He could have been the most well-written EU character even, but I wasn't (and sorry, I'm still not) getting past the fact that he looks like a giant reject douchebag saturday morning kids cartoon character villan. Seriously. The guy makes Star Trek races look legit. Also. This Link. http://www.darkhorse.com/Press-Releases/1440/Pictures-and-video-from-Star-Wars-Celebration-IV-6-4-07 |
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Ironwood
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Posts: 28240
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"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Tannhauser
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Posts: 4436
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I watched all of those, best review of SWI ever. That guy knows WTF he's talking about and funny as hell! |
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Tarami
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1980
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 Maul StanleyOk, I smiled. |
- I'm giving you this one for free.
- Nothing's free in the waterworld.
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WindupAtheist
Army of One
Posts: 7028
Badicalthon
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Oh man, that was great. I might watch his First Contact one, just because I'm curious as to what there is to pick on in it. I thought it was pretty solid overall. Anyway, Thrawn was cool because he was so totally unlike Palpatine or Vader. Thrawn could solicit input from his subordinates, didn't have a hissyfit when questioned, and could do things like retreat from a losing battle without having an egomaniacal meltdown. He came off more like... you know...a professional military officer rather than a strutting megalomaniac. I don't have a problem with the idea of someone competent rising from the upper ranks to grab the reins of the crumbling and decapitated Empire, making a run of things as the good guys struggle with the transition from rebellion to government. But god damn did they ever beat it to fucking death. |
"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig." -- Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome." -- Me
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Azazel
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Sure, and if he didn't look like a Saturday morning cartoon reject, I might be able to kind of care in a "some parts of the EU aren't total garbage" way, as I do with the Republic Commandoes. Bue he does, so I don't.
Yea, I'm shallow that way.
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Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
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Actually, the only thing that didn't work for me was the way Thrawn treated the Noghri.
The very fact that it sealed his fate just made it even worse. If you read the rest of the Stuff written about Thrawn thereafter, it made even LESS sense.
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"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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AutomaticZen
Terracotta Army
Posts: 768
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Anyway, Thrawn was cool because he was so totally unlike Palpatine or Vader. Thrawn could solicit input from his subordinates, didn't have a hissyfit when questioned, and could do things like retreat from a losing battle without having an egomaniacal meltdown. He came off more like... you know...a professional military officer rather than a strutting megalomaniac.
I don't have a problem with the idea of someone competent rising from the upper ranks to grab the reins of the crumbling and decapitated Empire, making a run of things as the good guys struggle with the transition from rebellion to government. But god damn did they ever beat it to fucking death.
I agree, though I did enjoy the fall of Jacen Solo. |
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Cyrrex
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10603
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Actually, the only thing that didn't work for me was the way Thrawn treated the Noghri.
The very fact that it sealed his fate just made it even worse. If you read the rest of the Stuff written about Thrawn thereafter, it made even LESS sense.
I always wondered about that too. It didn't make much sense for him to treat them the way he did, particularly because he himself was the alien outcast in the Imperial ranks. I suppose the implication was that he could then treat someone else the way he felt treated, but that didn't really fit well with his character. Ultimately, his level of ruthlessness was just inconsistant. |
"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Draegan
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Posts: 10043
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Brilliant. It also made me incredibly sad again after I've managed to erase the complete travesty that happened to Star Wars. |
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Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8045
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I agree, though I did enjoy the fall of Jacen Solo.
*twitch* |
"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
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