Star Wars Episodes 1, 2, & 3

[UnSub]

Guys, can we not do this ?

WE MUST DEFEND OUR HONOUR! 

My biggest complaint about the prequels (script issues aside) is that they turned the Jedi from a group of 'good', enlightened warriors into a group who deserved to have their asses kicked because they were all jackasses. Yoda especially.

[Triforcer]

Return of the Jedi was just as poorly paced and had just as many shitty toy tie-ins as any prequel.  All I can remember is people wandering around in a forest for roughly half the movie.  Empire is good, the first 30 minutes or so of ANH (until the end of the cantina scene) is good.  

I just rewatched the prequels, and with the distance of a little time, Phantom Menace is actually the BEST of the three (editor's note:  this isn't the same thing as saying it was good  ).  Partly because of no Hayden Christiansen, but mostly because it had the most coherent story- having the best lightsaber duel also helped).  Anakin's fall in Sith made no fucking sense and was horribly acted, and I've blocked out Clones entirely for some reason (thank you brain).  

Despite all that, I still will watch the TV show.  Yeah, I know, I'm part of the problem.  

[lamaros]

Well I just watched 4-6 to see how things stack up. I can certainly agree that 4-6 has a more connected storyline and some likable characters (Ford, really), but the silliness is still there too. If I had to watch them again now I'd probably go something like

Sith
Empire
Phantom/New Hope/Jedi
Clones

In order of preference. (Though I'm not keen on watching any of them again anytime soon). Clones is far and away the worst. Take Jar Jar out of Phantom and replace the big boring CGI battle with something that's actually fun to watch and I'd probably have it up near the top, though...

My biggest complaint about the prequels (script issues aside) is that they turned the Jedi from a group of 'good', enlightened warriors into a group who deserved to have their asses kicked because they were all jackasses. Yoda especially.

I found the idiocy of every single character bar the Emperor in 1-3 very hard to believe. I can understand the pompous passivity of a few of them, after all they've been making time for a 1000 years of so, supposedly?, but it's still a stretch to believe everyone in the galaxy just twiddles their thumbs and lets Palpatine manipulate them at will.

But again, no point getting into plot flaws with the series, we'd be here all year.

[Lakov_Sanite]

What, exactly....made revenge of the sith a good movie?

[Samwise]

It had that Hayden Christensen in it.  He's dreamy!   

[Quinton]

The prequels just felt like they had no soul to me.  The original trilogy are not the most awesome movies ever, but they're fun to watch, and are pretty amazing (technically) given their age.  I much prefer the somewhat sparse and simple settings of the originals to the plasticy and cold "look it's all 3d sets" of the new. 

Hell, I'm bitter that the DVD release of the originals ended up as the special edition crap with more 3d critters edited in, etc.  Would have been perfectly fine with as reasonably restored transfers as was possible, without mucking with what worked fine.

[Triforcer]

I think most movies would benefit from having imperial walkers edited into the background.  It would have improved the latest Indy movie. 

[Margalis]

I feel sorry for Lamaros after reading his post above. Having his taste in movies must be like going through life tone-deaf or without taste buds.

What, exactly....made revenge of the sith a good movie?

It wasn't the plot, the writing or the acting, that's for sure.

[lamaros]

What, exactly....made revenge of the sith a good movie?

Who said anything about any of them being good? Or were you asking WUA?

[ghost]

My favorite scene in the whole movie is in the cantina where Ford says that the Falcon can "make the Kessel run in 12 parsecs" and Guinness smirks at him because he actually fucked up the line.  He was supposed to say something besides "parsecs" but it stuck throughout the series.  

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kessel_Run

Yeah, it's all retconning 15-20 years later. I'm more inclined to believe Lucas used "parsecs" without knowing wtf it was, only that it sounded 'spacy.'

Yes that stuff was likely a retconn. However what I was really responding to was ghost's incorrect statement that Harrison Ford made a mistake in his line. The novelization does use different wording but in the script it was always "12 parsecs". Guinness' reaction is cause he knew Han was bullshitting, as was written in the script.

I saw it in one of the interviews with Alec Guinness.  Guess he didn't have your little linky.

EDIT:  I thought this was common knowledge and was something that I (and everyone I know on this side of the internet) always believed was true.  It appears that Google doesn't have my answer, so I'll go home and watch what I've got at home. 

I wonder how they are going to go back and "erase" Chewbacca dying many years from now?  Hmmmm.  Lucas' problem has always been trying to go back and create a plausible beginning to his story........and there are too many little loopholes like this one that he has to close up. 

[Triforcer]

Its simple.  They say "fuck the EU" and make Chewie a cybernetic Jedi that teams up with Boba Fett for sexy and dangerous detective adventures across the galaxy. 

[Numtini]

Star Wars was a near perfect movie because it was what it was. It delivered on that and it never tried to be more. It was a very well done tribute to space opera with just the right blend of seriousness and occasional dorkiness and for the time it stretched the boundaries for both special effects and sound.

It was so simple. And a lot of things just clicked at the right time.

Star Wars was not, however, a chapter in some grand pre-planned epic about the universe. It was a one off action adventure picture. As his ego inflated while chewing peyote with crazy Joe Campbell, the real world mythology of Star Wars as a phenomenon got retconned by Lucas worse than the plotlines did. Empire took some of the same characters and themes and made it more serious, but still kept to the action adventure genre. After that it was all junk. Lucas' ego was too big and he was too interested in trying to mine The Power of Myth for ideas rather than 1930s-50s pulp cinema. This ends up like John Wayne doing Hamlet. It's not the right match and it showed.

[Lakov_Sanite]

What, exactly....made revenge of the sith a good movie?

Who said anything about any of them being good? Or were you asking WUA?

You and WUA are claiming that sith is the best of all the movies, it's not.  Sith is a festering piece of shit and while I will agree none of the star wars movies were 'great' 4,5,6 could certainly be considered good.  Sith was not.  The acting was terrible, the special effects weren't even campy, they were just bad and they ruined all the action scenes.

Even if you don't like star wars how can you objectively say sith was the best? It's like saying "I'm no fan of video game movies but I think dead or alive was the best translation to film"  No, just no.  I appreciate WUA is probably trolling...or at least that's the only explanation that makes sense because the alternatives just boggle my mind.

[WindupAtheist]

It got the best at-release reviews of the entire series and made a hojillion bucks besides. Neither of those metrics neccessarily indicate whether a movie was good or bad, but they do nicely refute the disgruntled internet nerdrage axiom that "everyone" hated it. So sit around and "boggle" at the world, you crybaby cunt. I feel no need to defend my taste or opinions to the likes of you.

[Abagadro]

Translation: Got nothin.

[WindupAtheist]

Translation: I'm past humoring the Internet Faggot Inquisition.

See, the thing is, my attitude has nothing to do with what anyone thought of any particular movie. I liked Sith. You didn't? Okay. I can't really think of any movie that at least some people aren't willing to call bullshit. What has me hanging around in this thread is this overentitled self-important notion on the part of some people that their opinion is meaningful to anyone but themselves and more widely-shared than it is.

Or to attach this conversation to a completely different movie, I don't give a shit if someone goes "Pitch Black totally sucked ass!" because why the hell would I? But that isn't what we have here. Here we have you twats going "Pitch Black was shit and everyone in the world thinks so! What, you think it was better than Chronicles of Riddick? FUCKING FUCK FUCK GET IN HERE AND EXPLAIN YOURSELF IN DETAIL ASSHOLE, YOU OWE US THAT!!1!"

When in fact, nobody owes you twats shit.

[Abagadro]

Translation: Got nothin except a sandy vagina.

[WindupAtheist]

By the way, I know it's fun to paint me as the crazy Star Wars fanboy who defends any besmirchment with flamethrower in hand, but I'd just like interweb history to record who wanted to have an in-detail debate over the specifics and nature of Revenge of the Sith, and who thought that was a stupid idea and that they should just get over themselves.

 

[Abagadro]

For someone who disclaims a desire to defend the honor of St. Lucas you sure rush in like a mama bear protecting her cub at every mere hint of criticism. Me thinks you doth protest too much.

[WindupAtheist]

Nope. I used to bother debating this shit, but anymore I realize there's neither need nor reason to. In this thread you'll find me listing the movies in order of "nothing but how much enjoyment I derive from them" and slagging the antifanboys who started jumping around in little bareknuckle boxing stances wanting to e-fight about it.

Go on, read it.

[schild]

The derived score of WUA's "Star Wars Enjoyment Scale" is actually used in the Crueller-Hockins Fun Inversion Ratio. Whereby anything WUA likes and compares to Star Wars is inversely proportionate to how much someone else would like said thing depending where on his scale it falls. For example, if WUA said he liked The Rock as much as Episode 2, there's a fair chance other people would like The Rock far more than him. But if he said he liked Shoot'em Up as much as Empire, odds are no one would like Shoot'em up.

Don't question it. It's science!

[WindupAtheist]

Damn you Schild! I challenge you to e-battle over this! You cannot merely state your opinion and then fail to debate me over it! This is serious internet business! Debate, lest I harry you with "translation: <stuff>" posts!

[Abagadro]

Your antics go far beyond this thread and span a time frame of years.

[schild]

Damn you Schild! I challenge you to e-battle over this! You cannot merely state your opinion and then fail to debate me over it! This is serious internet business! Debate, lest I harry you with "translation: <stuff>" posts!

That post was nothing but cold, hard fact.

Go ahead, look up "Crueller-Hockins Fun Inversion Ratio" in wikipedia. Though, it might not be there, there's been a battle over some of the numbers and some troll keeps deleting it, so you might have to dig through some history.

[WindupAtheist]

Look it up? Who do you think keeps deleting it?!

[schild]

Look it up? Who do you think keeps deleting it?!

That bastard Crueller. You were just an amendment. You see, it's actually based on Cruellers ranking of the Matrix trilogy, but it was amended with your ranking of Star Wars because a six point scale is better than a three point scale. Also, no one liked the top score of "I Know Kung-Fu." Hockins thought it would be funny to use terrible lines from the movies to describe the possible inversion of said movies - unfortunately, after about 2 years, Crueller just couldn't take it anymore. He moved to Nairobi, opened a hut where he sells chicken entrails, and spends all his money on a satellite connection to the web just so he can vandalize the wikipedia entry.

He's a dick.

[WindupAtheist]

it was amended with your ranking of Star Wars because a six point scale is better than a three point scale

I often like to think of myself as a man of science, even though I have no particular knowledge or qualification that would possibly justify such an opinion. I'm glad I could do my part.

I look forward to providing more data when those Riddick sequels come out.

[VainEldritch]

The Peter Jackson LOTR are films. Not movies, well at least the expanded versions.

I could wax lyrical on the terrible piles of shit that the LotR movies are, how they only work as films when they stick very closely to Tolkien (and that is tragically infrequent, rendering 99% of the viewing time wasted) and how the extended cuts only shovel more shite on the pile with their ludicrous liberties (the confrontation between the Witchking of Angmar and Gandalf the White should be rammed frame by frame up Jackson's arse and fat bitch Boyens should be forced to eat the bloody awful "How to Write a Screenplay in Fifteen Minutes" books she presumably learned and from which she appears to quote from in her idiotic commenaries).

However I wont, as this thread is about Star Wars...  

Edited for rage-blind typos.

[HaemishM]

Nope. I used to bother debating this shit, but anymore I realize there's neither need nor reason to. In this thread you'll find me listing the movies in order of "nothing but how much enjoyment I derive from them" and slagging the antifanboys who started jumping around in little bareknuckle boxing stances wanting to e-fight about it.

You stated your opinion. When asked to elaborate, you shifted into "Internet Cool Guy Who Is Above the Fray" cliche and said you wouldn't talk about it. You've spent more posts in this thread talking about how you don't want to talk about it than it would have taken to just offer up why you liked it. It's the fucking Internet, you trolling douche. Who said it had to matter for anything? I personally would have liked to hear what about the movie you enjoyed. Maybe I missed that part, or I'd just like to know what anyone sees in that movie that's positive. I'm perfectly willing to give some things a second chance. Fuck, I gave Lucas more than enough chances with Attack of the Clones even after Ewoks and a little kid destroying a star ship by accident in Phantom Menace.

For the record, I actually put Phantom Menace second on my list of Star Wars movies, above Ep 4 and below Empire. I didn't mind Jar Jar or the Gungan version of Braveheart when the movie came out. My biggest problem with Menace was the kid accidentally blowing up the Federation base at the end. The lightsaber action in Menace beat everything else in the entire series, including the set pieces in Empire. So when I say that Sith is a piece of shit and you say it was your favorite, it's not because I automatically hate all things Lucas, or because I'm holding some candle for the prequels. Jedi was a decent movie ruined by the fucking Ewoks, but it was still a better movie than Clones or Sith.

We're in this thread to discuss things for no other reason than we have time to waste and an Internet connection. You are obviously not above the nerdraging debate, you just happen to like poking the nerds and then acting like you are "cooler" for having done so than for showing yourself to be just as big a nerd as the rest of us.

[WindupAtheist]

I still don't care. I'm an internet cool guy who is above the fray.

[Ironwood]

The Peter Jackson LOTR are films. Not movies, well at least the expanded versions.

I could wax lyrical on the terrible piles of shit that the LotR movies are, how they only work as films when they stick very closely to Tolkien (and that is tragically infrequent, rendering 99% of the viewing time wasted) and how the extended cuts only shovel more shite on the pile with their ludicrous liberties (the confrontation between the Witchking of Angmar and Gandalf the White should be rammed frame by frame up Jackson's arse and fat bitch Boyens should be forced to eat the bloody awful "How to Write a Screenplay in Fifteen Minutes" books she presumably learned and from which she appears to quote from in her idiotic commenaries).

However I wont, as this thread is about Star Wars...  

Edited for rage-blind typos.

What the fuck are you on ?

As to Star Wars ;  Can we please NOT do this ?  It's utterly pointless.

Here's the best bit about all 3 of the prequels :  You're Welcome.

[Samwise]

The Peter Jackson LOTR are films. Not movies, well at least the expanded versions.

I could wax lyrical on the terrible piles of shit that the LotR movies are, how they only work as films when they stick very closely to Tolkien (and that is tragically infrequent, rendering 99% of the viewing time wasted) and how the extended cuts only shovel more shite on the pile with their ludicrous liberties (the confrontation between the Witchking of Angmar and Gandalf the White should be rammed frame by frame up Jackson's arse and fat bitch Boyens should be forced to eat the bloody awful "How to Write a Screenplay in Fifteen Minutes" books she presumably learned and from which she appears to quote from in her idiotic commenaries).

I like this guy.  He's my kind of frothing nutjob.

[Slyfeind]

I think it's all a matter of perspective. My last girlfriend thought all the Star Wars movies were equally stupid, and her opinion is more important than anybody here because 1. She was hot, and 2. She let me do naughty things to her.

[stu]

I've been reading a compilation of selected interviews with Lucas from 1973-1999. I have tremendous respect for the guy. Lucas found a way to work outside the studio system and not have to deal with the "sleazy used-car salesmen" of Los Angeles in order to get his work done the way he wanted it, without tampering. Having said that...

The prequels have some lame scenes and some fantastic ones. Lucas would have been wise to hire screenwriters and directors for the prequels but part of his problem is that he only hires people who share his vision to the 't', which means he ended up doing the projects himself. He has admitted on numerous occasions to hating writing and not being able to work well with actors. All that translates clearly into the new Star Wars movies.


A couple side notes: Lucas said back in 1990 that he expected each prequel to cost about $35mil. A couple years before that he said Luke would be 4 years old by the end of Ep. 3.

A link to the compilation book if anyone is interested.

[lamaros]

You and WUA are claiming that sith is the best of all the movies, it's not.  Sith is a festering piece of shit and while I will agree none of the star wars movies were 'great' 4,5,6 could certainly be considered good.  Sith was not.  The acting was terrible, the special effects weren't even campy, they were just bad and they ruined all the action scenes.

Even if you don't like star wars how can you objectively say sith was the best? It's like saying "I'm no fan of video game movies but I think dead or alive was the best translation to film"  No, just no.  I appreciate WUA is probably trolling...or at least that's the only explanation that makes sense because the alternatives just boggle my mind.

Firstly I am not making objective statements. I'm saying if I had to watch them all again I'd probably look forward to Sith the most of the lot.

Reasons?
I dislike The first 45 mins of Jedi as I find all the Jabba scenes painful and then just when I'm getting over it you get Ewoks. Funny for about 5 mins but I don't really care to watch it again anytime soon. Luke's 'acting' is by far the worst in Jedi, which has no really good scenes to my mind and a plot that I don't really get. The final space battle is insipid and takes up far to much time, and the Ewok cheese as I have said is just ugh. Also sappy hooray endings don't really light my fire.
New Hope I also dislike for far too much Luke screen time and the fact I'm sick of the stupid hero tropes it sets up. The fighter battles at the end of New Hope are probably the most boring thing ever put to film, and there is way to much "use the force" voice-over throughout the movie. Also the rescue Princess scenes shit me to tears. The garbage unit schick? Ugh.
Empire is ok for the most part but it's a bit boring at the same time, and it was second in preference. I like snow, so a snow planet is fun, I like cloud city, and I think Ford is pretty amusing in his rom with Leia.
Clones I don't have to talk about, everyone knows why it is so bad.
Phantom is ok for some of the early and later scenes (I much prefer the extended Pod race to the space battles of 4-6, for example) and only CGI Jar Jar is really unwatchable.

But Sith is first in preference because it's pretty consistent throughout with not as many "ugh, fuck that" moments as the others. I don't mind the action--most of the fights are ok or even fun (Obi vs Grevious is a bit meh), there isn't a whole lot of Aniken romance action which cuts down on the cringe, and Hayden actually does a good job of playing a petulant dick you can't stand, even if he doesn't make the character believable. I also like the 'republic falling apart' aspect of it, and find the scope just general and bland enough to entertain without causing me to think "what the fuck, how does that make sense" as often as the other films.

So yeah, that's why Sith was preferred to the others. I'm not sure if you really cared, but that's how I felt about them in general.

edit for typos etc.