Neverwinter Nights Online. (Cryptic Studios)

[Hoax]

Who cares if people were farming ogres that fought back or couldn't fight back? If they wanted to avoid that they should have made lots of titles and achievements and cool looking gear templates that you only get if you stop and smell the flowers and do the story content while you are appropriate level. Then there is a compelling reason for some people to not want to kill helpless ogres for max level in min time.

You should always always as a game dev be trying to give people a reason to want to do things the way you think they should be done not punishing people who don't agree with you.

Or you can act like Bloodworth. Which is the route all these devs seem to choose.

Bullshit. This is purely about MMO "Firsts" and some sort of self worth for reaching 60 before anyone. Games have rules that define them, or else they are not games. Children make up new rules for games when they don't understand them, or want to make sure they win. "Why not let people break the rules" is possibly one of the most retarded conversations I have seen on this board.  Attempting to paint developers as some sort of sadistic creationists because they make games, that have rules, is beyond retarded and you should feel bad for even saying it.

Know what you do if you don't like a how a game plays? Play something else. Why are you playing something that you do not find fun, masochist, compulsion, lack of will? HERP A DERP let me cheat because why not? Get the fuck out.

Ahahahahahaahaha. You seriously think you aren't telling people they need to play your way or fuck off? God you are delusional.

So to recap, the game is "designed" to handle pvp rep gain boosters (so that grind is skippable?), lockboxes that will drop purple enchants that I believe are pretty OP or gear which undoubtedly you could spend a bunch of $ to make all content almost as trivial as any ogre farm. But if players are skipping the bullshit 1-60 content as fast as they possibly can then those fuckers should go elsewhere.

You must not know how this works. Companies with your attitude will over the course of the first couple of months nerf and fuck with all these things that players used to blast through the content. But they won't stop those people from skipping the bullshit and getting 60 fast. All that they ever accomplish is fucking over random bystanders who are leveling at normal rates in normal ways or new players who just find a game that rewards them much less in certain places.

You can't get the ogre farmers they have already made it. But congrats on making the foundry missions less rewarding for everyone else for all time. Sure showed them!   Control freak asshole foolish devs repeating, as many have pointed out, the pattern from CoH. But yeah keep fighting a useless fight while thumping your chest thinking you are so righteous and those dastardly players aren't worthy of even playing the game with you Bloodworth. That doesn't make you a stupidshit at all.

Who cares if people were farming ogres that fought back or couldn't fight back? If they wanted to avoid that they should have made lots of titles and achievements and cool looking gear templates that you only get if you stop and smell the flowers and do the story content while you are at appropriate level. Then there is a compelling reason for some people to not want to kill helpless ogres for max level in min time.

You should always always as a game dev be trying to give people a reason to want to do things the way you think they should be done not punishing people who don't agree with you.

[Merusk]

His point is, "I don't play Chess that way. Fuck you, my king can move 5 spaces" is crap and if you want to play that way
you're not playing chess.   Play that way with your friends all you want, but understand that it's only "house rules" to accept it as such.

There's no "house rules" in electronic gaming until you hit the mod community.  Which doesn't get a say in MMOs.

[Mrbloodworth]

Hoax, you are out of your mind, Again.

[Cheddar]

Wish we could delete the crap back and forth.  It buried some useful info 

Anyone have a good link on how cleric divinity power works?

[Numtini]

Anyone have a good link on how cleric divinity power works?

You should just be able to mouse over the different skills and it will show if they have enhanced effects when its turned on. That and it replaces your at will's with a channeled attack and heal respectively.

[Cheddar]

Anyone have a good link on how cleric divinity power works?

You should just be able to mouse over the different skills and it will show if they have enhanced effects when its turned on. That and it replaces your at will's with a channeled attack and heal respectively.

Looking more for mechanics around it.  How to build, do altars effect, etc.

[Lantyssa]

It is so far removed from D&D it makes me wonder why they bothered.

Now you know how us 1st edition players feel about 4th!

[Draegan]

Hell, I'd drop a 40$ cash-shop item that gives you a free level 60 if I were them.

If the game was designed for that, sure. But its not, and its clearly outside the developers intentions.  Riot?

The game is designed for people to play the game and give them money. Hell even DDO has a cashshop item that allows you to get a free level 5 (or whatever level) toon EVERY TIME you create a new character.

People love dungeon crawling, and a lot of people, myself included, would pay money to skip the trivial solo-leveling process just so they can crawl epic dungeons for loot a few times a night. Why not give those people an option to do that? Makes sense to me.

[Stormwaltz]

I also see that Cryptic's so short-staffed that they're not even policing player names. I've seen two level 60s on Mindflayer with nothing but ASCII penises for names.

I saw a guy with "fuck" in his name last night. I could figure out how to report him for spamming, but not for having an offensive name.

[Lantyssa]

My main concern with the guys racing to 60 through exploits is that means they can now run the highest level dungeons, get gear to sell for outrages prices, and either fuck up the AD market or all the Zen they want, which then causes the devs to overreact and make life miserable for the rest of us.

If there wasn't a whole economic system tied into this, I wouldn't care at all if they box themselves in a corner and level to 60.  It's not like it's all that hard to level anyways.  But if they're willing to take that kind of shortcut with the easiest leveling system in existence, I'd hate to think what else they're doing with real money on the line.

[Sjofn]

Anyone have a good link on how cleric divinity power works?

You should just be able to mouse over the different skills and it will show if they have enhanced effects when its turned on. That and it replaces your at will's with a channeled attack and heal respectively.

Looking more for mechanics around it.  How to build, do altars effect, etc.

From what I can tell, it's just going pew pew that builds it (until you throw some points into a passive I forget the name of, then your non-damaging abilities will also build it).

[Draegan]

My main concern with the guys racing to 60 through exploits is that means they can now run the highest level dungeons, get gear to sell for outrages prices, and either fuck up the AD market or all the Zen they want, which then causes the devs to overreact and make life miserable for the rest of us.

If there wasn't a whole economic system tied into this, I wouldn't care at all if they box themselves in a corner and level to 60.  It's not like it's all that hard to level anyways.  But if they're willing to take that kind of shortcut with the easiest leveling system in existence, I'd hate to think what else they're doing with real money on the line.

I don't think that really happens on a large scale; or the people it effects don't really care because they don't mind tossing money at the problem. By the time the casual player hits level cap, the market should be saturated (assuming you just want to buy all of your gear, and in this game you really don't need too) and the cost of things should be lower.  Even that being said, the Zen market is getting lower and lower. Already zen cost dropped from like 450 AD to 407 as of last night.

All it does is accelerate a mature marketplace sooner.

[tmp]

I think its got to do with the different types of games BW and others play vs RPG Mmo players. BW and others, like myself, have been playing stuff like Planetside, BF2, World of Tanks, etc, where voice chat is simply not an optional event.

I've played both World of Tanks and Planetside for months, and literally never ran into people using voice comms in the former, only occasionally i'd see someone try (keyword, try) use it in the latter. As such, I think that divide between MMO players and "others where it's not optional" is nowhere near as clear as you draw it.

[Azuredream]

I also see that Cryptic's so short-staffed that they're not even policing player names. I've seen two level 60s on Mindflayer with nothing but ASCII penises for names.

I saw a guy with "fuck" in his name last night. I could figure out how to report him for spamming, but not for having an offensive name.

The weird thing is that the Foundry has an enormously restrictive profanity filter, such that it goes way overboard. You can't publish a quest with any sort of profanity or imagined profanity. 'Sort it out' is not an allowed phrase because it thinks you're talking about boobs. You can't call anything 'damned' and an illegitimate son may not be called a 'bastard.'

[Engels]

Perhaps I should clarify:

Firstly, we're talking broadly about voice coms. Not in-game coms, but Teamspeak, Ventrilo, etc.

if you are part of a clan structure in Planetside or World of Tanks, chances are you are using voice coms via TS, vent, etc. While one certainly sees many many players floating about without voice coms,  chances are they do not have a regular play group.

[Threash]

Perhaps I should clarify:

Firstly, we're talking broadly about voice coms. Not in-game coms, but Teamspeak, Ventrilo, etc.

if you are part of a clan structure in Planetside or World of Tanks, chances are you are using voice coms via TS, vent, etc. While one certainly sees many many players floating about without voice coms,  chances are they do not have a regular play group.

We call those people "the grand majority".

[tmp]

We call those people "the grand majority".

Precisely, and they demonstrate that voice comms even in that kind of games absolutely are optional.

[koro]

Anyone have a good link on how cleric divinity power works?

You should just be able to mouse over the different skills and it will show if they have enhanced effects when its turned on. That and it replaces your at will's with a channeled attack and heal respectively.

Looking more for mechanics around it.  How to build, do altars effect, etc.

From what I can tell, it's just going pew pew that builds it (until you throw some points into a passive I forget the name of, then your non-damaging abilities will also build it).

That's basically it. Divine Power (I call it Gandalf Mode) builds through doing damage or through using things like Healing Word or later Astral Shield if you have the Divine Fortune passive slotted in. Certain feats let you build it a bit faster. Also At-Wills and Encounter powers will build it, but dailies will not.

I don't think altars do anything to Divine Power. Portable altars are nigh-useless, and are only used for giving you portable invocation stations if you absolutely must invoke right this second  and not at any of the myriad campsites around.

I... I may have restarted my Cleric.

Also, the Daunting Light encounter power modified by Divine Power is a thing of wonder and beauty.

[Engels]

We call those people "the grand majority".

Precisely, and they demonstrate that voice comms even in that kind of games absolutely are optional.

Maybe in MMORPGs, but my playtime would be pretty frustrating in Planetside without pals. World of Tanks would have also worn thin for me on my own. Being prey to the idiocy of your PUG playmates without actual, real people at the end of a microphone to coordinate with would have driven me off the game years ago.

But hey, I'm willing to be wrong on this. Its just eternally depressing to think that there are legions of players trying to play Planetside, War Thunder or World of Tanks on their own. On the other hand, it would explain a lot.

[Cheddar]

Finally checked out crafting and AH.  WTF.

They need to get a design team on the UI.  Seriously, this games only saving grace is combat/dungeons seem "fun."   I shouldn't have to poke around for 5 minutes to figure out how to pull up much less post on the Bazaar.  Same with using RL Cash to purchase "zen" and then figure out how to trade for "Astral Poo" or whatever. 

And what the hell is with cancel being on left side of gump?  Accidently deleted a piece of gear (my fault for not paying attention as I attemped to put something on the Auction House/Bazaar or whatever).  Verbiage needs worked, read as if "DO YOU WANT TO POST."

[koro]

So yeah, apparently Cryptic, in their infinite wisdom, not only implemented that auto chat-banning system based on /ignore and spam reporting, but they've also done something similar with the Foundry.

If enough people report a Foundry map, it gets auto-removed and banned from re-submission until a GM clears it...

... at which point it can be instantly reported until it's taken down again.

So all those folks who can no longer powerlevel on ogres and have nothing better to do are going around mass-reporting pretty much everything in the Best tab.

[Zetor]

So yeah, apparently Cryptic, in their infinite wisdom, not only implemented that auto chat-banning system based on /ignore and spam reporting, but they've also done something similar with the Foundry.

If enough people report a Foundry map, it gets auto-removed and banned from re-submission until a GM clears it...

... at which point it can be instantly reported until it's taken down again.

So all those folks who can no longer powerlevel on ogres and have nothing better to do are going around mass-reporting pretty much everything in the Best tab.

And just like that feature, just reading about it makes my head hurt. How does shit like this get past even the most basic design review? (aka bob the intern asking: "I wonder if there's any way to abuse this?")

[Stormwaltz]

I'm not going to comment on the preceding, because as someone who's played and designed MMGs since 1999, I'll probably say something I'll regret.

Instead I'll say, I'm level 40 now! With no grinding and barely any Foundry!

[apocrypha]

Bags, bank slots, respecs, character slots.

These are the things that are likely to lead me to stop playing this since they are priced way, WAY too high. 600 Zen for bank slots? 600 for a respec? 400,000 AD for a bag, which works out at about 1000 Zen? No.

If those kinds of things in F2P games are sensibly priced then I will purchase them. I don't have a problem with a F2P model that makes me feel I get good value for my money. There are plenty of examples, most recently Warframe and Path of Exile. I spent money on both of those because I felt like I got a decent amount of stuff for my £. I'm not going to spend a penny on NWO because the prices for what I consider to be essentials in a MMO are blatant gouges.

As it is my bank slots are all full, my bags are constantly full and I'm level 24 ffs. Oh and to make some more alts I have to make a new account. This is frustrating and annoying and will drive me away.

[Ingmar]

More fun with shitty design: If you're doing a dungeon run, and someone drops out, there's apparently no way to replace them.  

Bags, bank slots, respecs, character slots.

These are the things that are likely to lead me to stop playing this since they are priced way, WAY too high. 600 Zen for bank slots? 600 for a respec? 400,000 AD for a bag, which works out at about 1000 Zen? No.

If those kinds of things in F2P games are sensibly priced then I will purchase them. I don't have a problem with a F2P model that makes me feel I get good value for my money. There are plenty of examples, most recently Warframe and Path of Exile. I spent money on both of those because I felt like I got a decent amount of stuff for my £. I'm not going to spend a penny on NWO because the prices for what I consider to be essentials in a MMO are blatant gouges.

As it is my bank slots are all full, my bags are constantly full and I'm level 24 ffs. Oh and to make some more alts I have to make a new account. This is frustrating and annoying and will drive me away.

I agree with you on all of that except character slots - that's something I don't mind paying for at all in a F2P game, and they're about the only thing that is reasonably priced in this game, at $5 for 2.

[Bzalthek]

Bags is probably my bane.  I hated when games went to limited space inventory.  Inventory Juggling is not fun.  Then you had to upgrade your inventory.  Now you have to pay out the ass for a bag. 

[Phred]

Bags, bank slots, respecs, character slots.

These are the things that are likely to lead me to stop playing this since they are priced way, WAY too high. 600 Zen for bank slots? 600 for a respec? 400,000 AD for a bag, which works out at about 1000 Zen? No.

It costs nothing to register a new account and if you've got any kind of gaming rig at all you can easily run 2 clients at the same time to trade stuff to the mule. Just run in windowed mod as holding alt down to alt tab will cancel any trade in progress.
 

[apocrypha]

Yeah I already have 3 accounts Phred.

My point is that if they price these things unreasonably then I, and others, will do things like multi-accouting to avoid the costs. If they price them reasonably then I, and probably many others, will not feel like we're being ripped off to pay them instead of the hassle of separate accounts.

Cryptic are not Apple. They won't make more money by pricing themselves head and shoulders above the sensible competition.

[Tannhauser]

People game differently, I don't have a storage problem because I vendor almost everything.  Merchants are everywhere and if I can't use it, it gets sold.  My bank has maybe two items in it.  I do agree some of the prices are out of whack.

My main gripe is the AH is so borked. 

[Sjofn]

I need like. One more bag. Just one. And I'd be okay. Feh.

[apocrypha]

I'm not hoarding random shit, it's potions, profession kits, identify scrolls, a few drops that I'll use when I next ding, bounty insignias and enchantment things.

The kits should go in the professions slot and the insignias should go in the currencies tab IMO. The enchantment things piss me off because I know that even if I throw them all away now come level 60 I'll be needing space for them anyway.

Stuff is very obviously designed to fill your bags to push you into the cash shop and that makes me grind my teeth.

[Merusk]

Same thing happens in STO, so I'm not surprised to have it happen here.  At least this one has a separate crafting bag.  Be meticulous about combining enchants (or about not combining them until you find the next rank as a drop.) and dumping old gear and you should be good.  Shit doesn't sell on the AH so I don't even try that anymore and just vendor it all for useless gold. 

Scrolls of ID and Pots slow down in your 20s so you'll clear out of those soon enough.

That said, the single greater bag of holding I bought was the best investment ever.  It's only $10 which is less than a sub in another game.  I have 2 additional bags I got as drops/ quest rewards, too.  One at ~15 one at ~25. Only 12 more slots each but still nice to have.

[Draegan]

$10 is way too much for a fucking bag. If they were 2-3 each, I would probably end up buying a few for each character, but as it is, I'll never buy one.

My bank is full of the enchantment thingies. I need to weed through them I guess. Inventory management is not really an issue, but holy fuck is it annoying.

[koro]

Companion runestones I vendor immediately. Character enchantments I keep around, usually the Azure or Silvery ones, since Crit and Recovery are nutso good.

Radiant, Azure, and Silvery enchants tend to sell fairly decently on the AH though. I've made probably 20,000 ADs just from selling Radiants.

Keep in mind you can buy and sell on the AH from anywhere in the game at any time. You don't have to be in the Enclave at the auctioneers to do it.

[Phred]

I dont disagree that bags are stupidly overpriced. I was just pointing out a cheap workaround that is worth the hassle because of the stupid pricing on bags and banks.