"Oh btw, FFXIV Online in 2010"

[ezrast]

After all, who isn't sick of hearing me say, "if the game isn't for you, that's okay, no game is for everyone" - it's the epitome of agreeing to disagreeing.

Unfortunately, what it's been my experience will happen is it will turn into an argument about how I need to acknowledge that if they don't like the game, it's the game's fault, and I'm wrong for liking it.

In the past, sooner or later I'd get frustrated and say something like, "well fine, I'm glad we'll not have to deal with you in the game I like" or "maybe this game's too smart for you" or something like that.  That's typically when the warning/ban would strike because when such a post is reported for trolling/flaming at that point, who's the mod to disagree?  They can't see the paper trail of what I had to endure that finally pushed me that far, that I was, in the end, as much a victim as anyone else.

[Lakov_Sanite]

We're always entitled to our own opinions but, if everyone you've ever met says you're crazy...you might want to think about therapy.

[HaemishM]

There does not exist therapy or non-fatal drugs strong enough to deal with that concentrated a dose of monkey screech psychosis.

[Shatter]

After all, who isn't sick of hearing me say, "if the game isn't for you, that's okay, no game is for everyone" - it's the epitome of agreeing to disagreeing.

Unfortunately, what it's been my experience will happen is it will turn into an argument about how I need to acknowledge that if they don't like the game, it's the game's fault, and I'm wrong for liking it.

In the past, sooner or later I'd get frustrated and say something like, "well fine, I'm glad we'll not have to deal with you in the game I like" or "maybe this game's too smart for you" or something like that.  That's typically when the warning/ban would strike because when such a post is reported for trolling/flaming at that point, who's the mod to disagree?  They can't see the paper trail of what I had to endure that finally pushed me that far, that I was, in the end, as much a victim as anyone else.

Or you could just say I like to play shitty games

[Mrbloodworth]

Now I know why I could never make a finished item when I played....



So, to make a level 7 fishing rod, you need to be level 11, with level 15+ materials and level 21 in other schools. What that chart does not show you is quantity needed, or consumed "fuel" items that i could never find (that apparently drop of level 20 + mobs..).

They make Wurm seem like a spa resort. 

[waffel]

This game would have probably succeeded 10+ years ago, back when grinds were more acceptable and a crafting system like that was probably deemed 'fun'

[Abelian75]

So, to make a level 7 fishing rod, you need to be level 11, with level 15+ materials and level 21 in other schools. What that chart does not show you is quantity needed, or consumed "fuel" items that i could never find (that apparently drop of level 20 + mobs..).

I think what they were thinking was "quick, enter some random numbers into the database, since we don't have enough time to do otherwise, and even if we did, we have no content plan to base our item design around."

[sam, an eggplant]

Some people enjoy that thing, particularly when the only way to get the end result is crafting, tradeskills produce differing quality output allowing crafters to differentiate themselves from the crowd, and player dependence is forced, like in the original SW:G.

Of course the chain-smoking mainland Chinese working 90 hour weeks in humid warehouses stinking of mancrotch for $0.74/hour to deliver FFIXIIIXXI aren't beardy intelligentsia contemplating infinity and/or their navels like Raph, they're pragmatists that nailed together an amusingly complex 1999-style crafting system because it was the shortest route from A to B.

[Mrbloodworth]

SW:G wasn't even close to being that bad though, I think anyone who attempted to craft a finished item in this title, understands the scope of the suck in that chart. Its like nothing you have ever felt.

That's a lot of man hours to produce the first upgrade beyond starting gear.

[Hawkbit]

Not to mention the whole issue of being lvl 20 to even make a lvl 7 item...  that shit needs to stop in these games.  If you aren't going to allow players to craft meaningful, usable and relevant items in the game, then stop adding crafting into your game.  There's not enough for this game. 

[Mrbloodworth]

Its trickle down crafting. 

[Murgos]

There are what looks like two level 5 intermediate blacksmith items that need level 11 intermediate Blacksmith items to make them?  Huh?

The level 21 iron wire has to be made by an Armorer?  But a rivets (short piece of thick soft wire) or a fish hook (a pointy piece of bent wire) are made by blacksmiths?  Oh-kay.  

[Abelian75]

If you aren't going to allow players to craft meaningful, usable and relevant items in the game, then stop adding crafting into your game.  There's not enough for this game.  

You can pretty much say the same thing about the various combat classes in this game as well, regarding combat.  There's no evidence of any sort of actual, non-theoretical combat in the game that requires teamwork or even intelligent ability use.  There's just a bunch of tacked-on complexity that serves no purpose.  It's seriously the most content-free MMO I think I've ever seen, which is saying a LOT given the way the genre started.

I mean, sure, lots of MMOs have failed to really figure out the way the endgame will work by the time they launch (well, to some extent nobody does, but some figure it out less than others).  What we're seeing here is a failure to figure out how the goddamn early game plays before launch.  It's... interesting.

The level 21 iron wire has to be made by an Armorer?  But a rivets (short piece of thick soft wire) or a fish hook (a pointy piece of bent wire) are made by blacksmiths?  Oh-kay.   

Trying to figure this out leads to madness, particularly since an armorer kinda IS a blacksmith.  I'm not sure what exactly a blacksmith itself is supposed to be.  I guess a weaponsmith?  Or maybe just an apprentice?  Who knows.  A nitpick compared to other problems with the game, but if you're going to go the "realistic" crafting route where you actually build stuff out of somewhat realistic components, you should probably make sure that the crafting classes themselves actually make sense.  The specialization route for armorer and weaponsmith makes way more sense (such that they are both also blacksmiths).

[01101010]

You can pretty much say the same thing about the various combat classes in this game as well, regarding combat.  There's no evidence of any sort of actual, non-theoretical combat in the game that requires teamwork or even intelligent ability use.  There's just a bunch of tacked-on complexity that serves no purpose.  It's seriously the most content-free MMO I think I've ever seen, which is saying a LOT given the way the genre started.

I think the departure from the holy trinity of RPG jobs was a great idea in theory, but horrible in application. Still trying to figure out how grouping was supposed to work when everyone was an individual in the group solely responsible for themselves. The concept of having to level a bunch of jobs and unlock those abilities across the board, I had a problem with that from the get go - considering the way these games work out in the min-max dept. I got called out in the beta forums a bunch of times for this. Once a golden set of abilities is found, there is nothing to stop a full group from all speccing the exact same way and pulling an attack of the clones on the game world. Now the implementation of a skillchain of abilities would have diluted the cloning thing a bit, IF IT WORKED spent three days in beta trying to justify skill chaining and never was able to - but its more of the same shit FFXI became after Goddess spewed forth and puks became the new pinata - dogpile on the mob and move to the next one.  Funny part is, that ladybug is still going to win.

[tmp]

There are what looks like two level 5 intermediate blacksmith items that need level 11 intermediate Blacksmith items to make them?  Huh?

The level 21 iron wire has to be made by an Armorer?  But a rivets (short piece of thick soft wire) or a fish hook (a pointy piece of bent wire) are made by blacksmiths?  Oh-kay.  

There seems to be no rhyme nor reason to how they divided the crafting items, generally. As example, i made a killing in beta (well, ~half million gil by the end) crafting 3 daggers a day as rank 10 blacksmith. Why daggers? Because you could buy the sub-components from the vendor and assembly was possible pretty easily from rank 5 up, but few figured that out googled the recipe and connected the dots. This was item for rank 10 gladiator. At the same time, components for most basic sword/axe were impossible to get and/or required rank 10+ to make the sub-components with any level of success let alone being profitable.

It went sillier from that, too. Basic rank 1 underwear is like, rank 10+ items too i think while you could assemble much more complicated items way earlier than that. Side effect -- everyone running around with "broken gear" icon because you couldn't repair your underwear or get the new one very much until beta ended

[AutomaticZen]

4/10 from GameSpot.

Wait for a review be damned.  God, this game is getting savaged.

[Samprimary]

The crafter economy is so weird that there's hardly any way it can avoid being totally broken/saturated once the majority of the players advance up another ten levels. There were some arcane analyses of it on other forums, and it didn't look good.

[01101010]

4/10 from GameSpot.

Wait for a review be damned.  God, this game is getting savaged.

I can't for the life of me find one thing in that article that I didn't experience the exact same way in beta. I'd like to ask those people on the forums that said most of that shit would be fixed/fleshed-out on a release day patch, just what was patched? But it's not right to poke at dead things...

[Rasix]

It's a fair review.  Kevin Van Ord too; Gamespot brought their A game for a sub F mmo.

[Count Nerfedalot]

Broken underwear?  That's just, ewww.   

[Mrbloodworth]

Broken underwear?  That's just, ewww.   

The indicator is also not translated.

[Murgos]

Broken underwear?  That's just, ewww.   

The indicator is also not translated.

God, it would be awesome if it were a pair of tighty whities with a red circle and a line through it.  Although, Sky might get confused and think there was a fire alarm...

[Paelos]

Obviously this game is not paying the gaming media outlets enough to keep their mouths shut.

[waffel]

Obviously this game is not paying the gaming media outlets enough to keep their mouths shut.

.... seems like it would be simpler to spend the money towards making the game not-quite-so-shitty...

[waffel]

Anyone got free pizza?

[sam, an eggplant]

Next person to post a link to that gamespot review gets a FREE PIZZA HUT MEAT LOVERS PAN PIZZA!!!!!

[Lum]

Yo dawg, heard you liked reviews so I posted a review of your reviews

(on topic: I actually wish this were a better game. A solo-friendly FF11 would be digital crack for me.)

[Rasix]

The user reviews are hilarious.  I love the 10s chiding the 0s about objectivity when they follow up their 10 score with a bunch of equivocations and hopes that the game won't stink in 3-6 months.

[sam, an eggplant]

"Cheat Code Central" gave it an 84. Fair enough, diff'rent strokes, maybe they actually liked it, right? But no.

We can't recommend that you spend $50, and then $12.99 a month after the first 30 days, on a title that has as many flaws as FFXIV does. But we can recommend that you keep an eye on the news to see how this game evolves.

Seriously, what the fuck. "Don't buy this dogshit" is a 7 on the 7-9 scale, not an 8.4.

[Nightblade]

"Cheat Code Central" gave it an 84. Fair enough, diff'rent strokes, maybe they actually liked it, right? But no.

We can't recommend that you spend $50, and then $12.99 a month after the first 30 days, on a title that has as many flaws as FFXIV does. But we can recommend that you keep an eye on the news to see how this game evolves.

Seriously, what the fuck. "Don't buy this dogshit" is a 7 on the 7-9 scale, not an 8.4.

The problem is you expected a coherent review from a sight called "Cheat Code Central".

[Samprimary]

Damn, guys. Gamespot gave it a 4 out of 10.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/finalfantasy14/review.html

Listen to this:

Absolutely miserable interface   Does a poor job of communicating important information   Limited questing means you're always looking for something fun to do   Everything about the economy stinks   Every aspect of the game is filled with dumb obstacles.

I can give you a street addy for the pizza.

[Samprimary]

The user reviews are hilarious.  I love the 10s chiding the 0s about objectivity when they follow up their 10 score with a bunch of equivocations and hopes that the game won't stink in 3-6 months.

Both user reviews and game reviews on metacritic are in dire need of methodological tamping. The two 84s which now comprise 2/3rds of FFXIV's metascore are just perfect examples of that.

[sam, an eggplant]

Well, at least the hairless German child molestor-looking guy from GamingXP (great headshot on page 4!) appeared to enjoy the game, although I can't find his definitive score anywhere. I believe he may have given it a 75, not an 84.

I picture him with a lisp. "Theventy Five!" (But in German, so it probably sounds all metal.)

[Lantyssa]

Seventy in German is about the softest sounding word they have.

[tmp]

"User score: Generally unfavorable"