"Oh btw, FFXIV Online in 2010"

[schild]

I trust them to be able to deliver a story-driven MMOG more than a certain other company. Not that I expect it to be a good story.

At least the game will have a huge soundtrack worth buying.

[Kitsune]

I'm intrigued.  I had enough enjoyment from FFXI that I'd be willing to pay for XIV sight-unseen today.  If, between now and release, they say or so something retarded to make me think the game will be balls, I won't be paying, but as long as they don't royally fuck up, they already have me on board.  Whether they keep me long enough to get any subscription money depends on what I see when I start playing.

[Hoax]

I feel the same way, FFXI was the last fantasy MMO that I could stand.  Too bad the forced grouping + grind + giving us the game with a mature japanese server population to rape us economically was not a good call.  Oh yeah also PlayOnline can suck my dick, server codes and all that other bullshit that stopped me from even playing in the first place.

[Velorath]

I feel the same way, FFXI was the last fantasy MMO that I could stand.  Too bad the forced grouping + grind + giving us the game with a mature japanese server population to rape us economically was not a good call.  Oh yeah also PlayOnline can suck my dick, server codes and all that other bullshit that stopped me from even playing in the first place.

Not to mention the "we'll delete your character if you unsubscribe for three months" shit.  Also didn't like that you were generally fucked in combat if you even got one add, especially since I seem to recall that mobs would follow you all the way back to the zone line.

[LK]

The amenities, speed of gameplay, and ease of access of WoW with the environmental quality, job system, lore, and other nicer aspects of FFXI and GO.

[Reg]

I don't think they've really done that "delete your character for inactivity" thing for quite a long time now. I've gone back temporarily a couple of times and after following the procedure in their "Return to Vanadiel" newsletter my characters have always been there.

It's not really an issue for me now of course. I'm not going to return to FFXI when there's a new and better version coming down the pipe.

[Velorath]

I don't think they've really done that "delete your character for inactivity" thing for quite a long time now. I've gone back temporarily a couple of times and after following the procedure in their "Return to Vanadiel" newsletter my characters have always been there.

It's not really an issue for me now of course. I'm not going to return to FFXI when there's a new and better version coming down the pipe.

I quit fairly early on.  By the time they started doing that Return to Vanadiel stuff, I think my character was long gone.

[Reg]

Deleting your characters after unsubscribing was a mind-bogglingly stupid policy in the first place - right up there with the ridiculous hoops you had to jump through to play on the same server with your friends. And if you misunderstood the cancellation process and accidentally canceled your PlayOnline account there was nothing you could do but buy the game again.

When I played it was a very, very player-unfriendly game - much worse than EQ ever was. Maybe it was some Japanese cultural hard-core thing.

[Margalis]

Also didn't like that you were generally fucked in combat if you even got one add, especially since I seem to recall that mobs would follow you all the way back to the zone line.

Bard, Black Mage and Red Mage should be able to control adds, even a Thief if their 2-hour is available. (Which it should be) Or a Paladin.

This is one aspect of the game I hope they don't change too much. There is a difference between frustration and grinding masquerading as difficulty and actual honest-to-god difficulty. Controlling adds is in the latter category IMO and leads to some very memorable moments.

Following you forever (and picking up buddies along the way) has been fixed for a while now, though to me those changes are neither here nor there.

[Velorath]

Also didn't like that you were generally fucked in combat if you even got one add, especially since I seem to recall that mobs would follow you all the way back to the zone line.

This is one aspect of the game I hope they don't change too much. There is a difference between frustration and grinding masquerading as difficulty and actual honest-to-god difficulty. Controlling adds is in the latter category IMO and leads to some very memorable moments.

The difficulty wouldn't have bothered me too much if not for the extra kick in the nuts of losing xp and possibly deleveling when you lose (which also caused the added bonus of people getting pissed off at each other, particularly in pick up groups).

I know a lot of the big problems were fixed or at least mitigated, but by that time, FFXI felt like a relic as far as MMO's go.

[Velorath]

I trust them to be able to deliver a story-driven MMOG more than a certain other company.

Drew Karpyshyn (Lead writer on Mass Effect, co-writer on Mass Effect 2, and also wrote the two novels) transitioned to the Bioware Austin team recently.

[Margalis]

Well if he wrote two video-game based novels he must be good. 

[schild]

I trust them to be able to deliver a story-driven MMOG more than a certain other company.

Drew Karpyshyn (Lead writer on Mass Effect, co-writer on Mass Effect 2, and also wrote the two novels) transitioned to the Bioware Austin team recently.

I did not say either would have good or bad writing. I was not talking about the quality of writing or quality of story.

I was talking about tech and presentation.

[Velorath]

Well if he wrote two video-game based novels he must be good.  

They've been generally well received.  And like I said, he was lead writer on Mass Effect.  Square on the other hand hasn't had any decent writing in their games for over a decade.

I did not say either would have good or bad writing. I was not talking about the quality of writing or quality of story.

I was talking about tech and presentation.

From what we've seen, it looks fairly similar to how Mass Effect is done.  I've seen less indication that Square can present a story well, since they haven't evolved in that respect since FFVII when they first started doing cutscenes (which is also when their stories started becoming convoluted drek).

[Margalis]

So so many ways to go but I'll take the high road. My deep-buried literary snob is threatening to erupt.

[Velorath]

So so many ways to go but I'll take the high road. My deep-buried literary snob is threatening to erupt.

If it wants to erupt over some books neither of us has read, by all means let it out.

[Hayduke]

When I played it was a very, very player-unfriendly game - much worse than EQ ever was. Maybe it was some Japanese cultural hard-core thing.

Yeah I felt the same, but then I only made it a week in a half in the 30-day.  My highest praise for the game is it was the easiest mmo to ever leave.  Even Shadowbane left me with a twinge of remorse when I unsubbed.

[Rendakor]

I actually remember it was fairly difficult to unsubscribe. I honestly think I spent more time installing, subscribing, unsubscribing and uninstalling then I did playing the game.

[AutomaticZen]

When I played it was a very, very player-unfriendly game - much worse than EQ ever was. Maybe it was some Japanese cultural hard-core thing.

Yeah I felt the same, but then I only made it a week in a half in the 30-day.  My highest praise for the game is it was the easiest mmo to ever leave.  Even Shadowbane left me with a twinge of remorse when I unsubbed.

Took me about a month.  Bought the original+Chains set, played for a month.  Even got my roommate and his girlfriend into it.  Then I ditched them for WoW (which  I longer play either).

[AutomaticZen]

From here:


All the FFXI races have been copypasted and renamed.

Hyuran (human in FFXI), Lalafell (Taru in FFXI), Elzen (Elvaan in FFXI), Miqo'te (Mithra in FFIX) and Roegadyn (Galka in FFXI).

The new classes and sub-classes are:

Fighter: swordsman, archer
Sorcerer: enchanter, warlock
Crafter: blacksmith, cook
Gatherer: gardener, fisherman

I'm going to assume that while there may not be experience points or levels, there will be job points or skills gained from weapons, a la the Tactics games.

Fear the Archer Gardener.

[Delmania]

Whenever people say how unfriendly the game is, I feel the need to remind that it was developed before World of Warcraft, when the MMO to replicate was Everquest.  Also, remember that FFXI open for the US a year after the game was initially launched.  Different time, different culture, both geographically and gaming, so it's no surprise that people find the game harsh when compared to WoW.  However, there are many people who prefer FFXI's gaming style, so FF XIV is the response to WoW.  In addition to SWTOR and Aion, this is one of the few MMOs I pay attention to.

[01101010]

From here:


All the FFXI races have been copypasted and renamed.

Hyuran (human in FFXI), Lalafell (Taru in FFXI), Elzen (Elvaan in FFXI), Miqo'te (Mithra in FFIX) and Roegadyn (Galka in FFXI).

The new classes and sub-classes are:

Fighter: swordsman, archer
Sorcerer: enchanter, warlock
Crafter: blacksmith, cook
Gatherer: gardener, fisherman

I'm going to assume that while there may not be experience points or levels, there will be job points or skills gained from weapons, a la the Tactics games.

Fear the Archer Gardener.

Well... the races are not a leap from the FFXI races unless you count the tail amputation from the Galka and the liberal use of the rack on the taru. but lalafell? that is just setting up failure as a race on name alone.

As for the classes... seems like a partial list. Though I am interested in how they interpret the interplay between crafting and battling. It will be different for sure, just hope its not 
different.

[Reg]

Whenever people say how unfriendly the game is, I feel the need to remind that it was developed before World of Warcraft, when the MMO to replicate was Everquest.  Also, remember that FFXI open for the US a year after the game was initially launched.  Different time, different culture, both geographically and gaming, so it's no surprise that people find the game harsh when compared to WoW.  However, there are many people who prefer FFXI's gaming style, so FF XIV is the response to WoW.  In addition to SWTOR and Aion, this is one of the few MMOs I pay attention to.

FFXI was far harsher than Everquest 1. It burned me out and drove me away before WoW was even released. People accustomed to WoW style games wouldn't last a week in FFXI even in its slightly more forgiving current state.

[Hoax]

The renkei and difficulty along with an open world were what made FFXI a improvement on the good stuff EQ1 did.  They need to stick with that route because if they try to make it a WoW game they are bound to fail hard.  I hope their answer is to remove leveling but keep it a difficult game because I find WoW's pve even if it is fast to be so mind numbingly stupid and boring that I could never even if you gave me x20 exp gain make it from level 1 to the current max.

The problem with FFXI's combat was, you couldn't fight alone or in a small group or at all without a perfectly formed and competent full group.  So literally you sat at the zone line waiting to find one for most of your play session.  There are ways to get rid of that without getting rid of actual pve challenges.

[Murgos]

The renkei and difficulty along with an open world were what made FFXI a improvement on the good stuff EQ1 did.  They need to stick with that route because if they try to make it a WoW game they are bound to fail hard.  I hope their answer is to remove leveling but keep it a difficult game because I find WoW's pve even if it is fast to be so mind numbingly stupid and boring that I could never even if you gave me x20 exp gain make it from level 1 to the current max.

That's a brilliant observation.  To be a successful product they should totally aim for the niche masochists, which worked well for every who has tried it, even though WoW shows conclusively that there is a HUGE market for 'low difficulty' gaming?

Mind.  Blown.

[Engels]

The conclusion that a game methodology that I like is also a successful mass-market game design is entirely foreign to these shores.

[LK]

You know what MMO's need? MMO's need that feeling of warmth you get in Call of Duty 4 when you see +10 pop up on the screen.

[Delmania]

The renkei and difficulty along with an open world were what made FFXI a improvement on the good stuff EQ1 did.  They need to stick with that route because if they try to make it a WoW game they are bound to fail hard.  I hope their answer is to remove leveling but keep it a difficult game because I find WoW's pve even if it is fast to be so mind numbingly stupid and boring that I could never even if you gave me x20 exp gain make it from level 1 to the current max.

The problem with FFXI's combat was, you couldn't fight alone or in a small group or at all without a perfectly formed and competent full group.  So literally you sat at the zone line waiting to find one for most of your play session.  There are ways to get rid of that without getting rid of actual pve challenges.

Ironically enough, I believe renkeis are no longer done since they take too much to setup and you can do more damage with everyone just tp dumping every time they get to 100%.   I played a bard, though, so I never paid attention.

[Velorath]

Whenever people say how unfriendly the game is, I feel the need to remind that it was developed before World of Warcraft, when the MMO to replicate was Everquest.

That's no excuse.  DAOC came out before FFXI, and was nowhere near as punishing.

[Velorath]

From 1up.

- Eorzea, the continent where players begin their game, is a small continent with several surrounding islands. Time passes, and weather changes, on a regular basis in this world, with one in-game day currently set to be about an hour of realtime. This exact figure may change, but as Komoto puts it, "it won't be like Eorzea will be night for hours because it's nighttime in reality... I want FFXIV to be enjoyed even by those who can play only a short time out of the day, so I'd like the sort of time schedule such that it's always a different experience timewise when you login to Eorzea."

- Eorzea is home to five races which, although they have different names, look quite a bit like the races in Final Fantasy XI. You have the Hyuran (Hume in FFXI), Miqo'te (Mithra), Lalafell (Tarutaru), Elezen (Elvaan) and Roegadyn (Galka), and as you'd expect, you can fully customize the look your character no matter what race he or she's a member of. Hyuran are further divided into "midlanders" and "highlanders," and Miqo'te are divided into the diurnal Sunseekers and the nocturnal Moonkeepers, though how this affects gameplay is still under wraps.

- FFXIV's "armory system" is what defines your character's growth. The game has four broadly defined "job skills" -- Fighter, Sorcerer, Gatherer and Crafter -- each of which has a variety of more specific classes (Swordsman, Blacksmith, Caster, etc) attached to it. You can change your class instantly simply by changing your weapon and armor, and as you fight and complete quests with that equipment, your character will advance in that class. You're free to concentrate entirely on one class, or try to balance yourself out among all the job skills.

This armory system isn't exactly like the "job" concept that most Final Fantasy games work under. "The way I see it, the player can define how his own job works," says Komoto. "For example, if you have the Swordsman skill, that's enough to let you play by yourself, but if you've also raised your Sorcerer skill enough to unlock that skill's healing magic, that'll make solo play a lot easier for you. You can carry enough equipment around at any given time to change your style freely, and the system makes this easy by letting you change sets of equipment all at once."

- This skill and class system largely replaces the traditional RPG concepts of levels and experience points in FFXIV. Instead of worrying about EXP, "I think the main thrust will be raising the skills you have at hand," as Komoto puts it. You'll probably still have to engage in good old-fashioned MMORPG grinding to improve your character, though.

- FFXIV's quest system involves visiting Eorzea's guild and receiving work passes from the guildmaster. Other players can cooperate with you, and everyone can put their passes together to involve the entire gang in a sort of mini-campaign. The available passes change at regular intervals, and completing a single quest from one of these passes will be a relatively short process -- Komoto estimates it at around half an hour or so. "You don't need a set number of people for each quest," he said. "That you can work out by yourself with the other players in the guild, since they're all there for the same goal."

[AutomaticZen]

Sounds like they've liberally chosen systems from other FF games and fused them together, though it sounds like FFTA and FFTA2 are direct ancestors.

[01101010]

- This skill and class system largely replaces the traditional RPG concepts of levels and experience points in FFXIV. Instead of worrying about EXP, "I think the main thrust will be raising the skills you have at hand," as Komoto puts it. You'll probably still have to engage in good old-fashioned MMORPG grinding to improve your character, though.

So basically the gear levels, not the character? I am curious, yet apprehensive about this since the "g" word is mentioned. How do we improve a character without a level measurement? Is this an attempt at leveling laterally rather than vertically? ugh... this post just opened up so many more questions than it gave answers.

On that same train, I wonder how long before the players figure out the min/max equation to most efficiently progress in the game. Will that even matter?

[Lantyssa]

It sounds skill-based, given that one paragraph.

[fuser]

So acclerated world time    I miss that from eq where mobs or quests were time based spawns. It's a minor thing but added a little spark to the world (long as they don't poop sock it and keep the days on a casual players time window).

[Arrakiv]

I'm curious to see how this game will work out, more so with their advancement system. I have to admit though, I do rather like the idea of wailing on something with a sword, then busting out a staff to heal myself or another character quickly. That sounds like what they're trying to do anyway. I'll have to see how it'll be implemented, but I'll keep an eye on it.