Here comes the next content patch (3.2)

[Paelos]

Yep that's pretty much what made me quick WSG. The constant fuck you of having FCs hiding just in time to get ganked simultaneously and start the horrible waiting game over again.

[Musashi]

This is a dumb argument.

[Ashamanchill]

This is a dumb argument.

You're a dumb arguement.





Sorry, I've always wanted to use a retort like that.

[Musashi]

NO U

 

[Paelos]

This is a dumb argument.

You obviously failed to grasp the point of forums.

[Kail]

You know what would be grand, some different maps. I would do CTF more if it could be in different places. Hell, they could even all use the WSG tileset and I'd be happier. Blizz did this so well with starcraft, with a host of balanced mirror maps. Why they can't just re-do a few different WSG, or AB templates baffles me.

Honestly, I don't care about the map, I just don't think CTF is really balanced (or balance-able) in WoW.  It's a gametype that revolves around running away from combat, where most people move at about the same speed, but half the classes need to be in melee range to be effective, and most of the rest need to stand still to channel spells.  There's no player collision, so you're stuck playing WoW's godawful system of CC and trinkets and immunities.  Everything I love about CTF in something like Team Fortress or Tribes doesn't work in WoW for one reason or another.

Though I wouldn't mind seeing some remixes of AB, I admit.

[Paelos]

The moment you give one player different abilities than another, balance becomes impossible. Everything that follows is a quagmire of player bitching, dev patching, and killers getting lost in the fray.

[Sheepherder]

The moment you give one player different abilities than another, balance becomes impossible. Everything that follows is a quagmire of player bitching, dev patching, and killers getting lost in the fray.

It's not a balance problem, it's a "the base mechanics of this game are predicated against CTF" problem.  You need to be able to shoot while moving or have exceedingly effective ways of stopping the carrier for CTF to really work.

[Zetor]

WOW is a pve game, pvp is an afterthought, blah blah blah.

I also like the WSG change, turtles were an inevitable 'nobody wins' situation in most WSG games on my server. It got so bad that I would queue AV when entering WSG (since AV typically has a 7-8 min queue time) and taking that as an escape option if things got all turtly by that point. :/

[Paelos]

The turtle doesn't come from balance problems. It comes from incentive problems.

[Shatter]

The turtle doesn't come from balance problems. It comes from incentive problems.

Or just plain pissing the other side off

[Vash]

The turtle doesn't come from balance problems. It comes from incentive problems.

Or just plain pissing the other side off

This is typically how super long games happen, one side jumps out to an early lead causing the other side to go, "screw those bastards, lets turtle up and watch them all /afk ragequit".  Even if they're so bad/outmatched they can't even turtle properly they still get to farm some easy HK's in their flagroom before the match ends.

With a timer, that isn't a valid tactic anymore.

[dd0029]

I've picked up my 70 priest back up and have been doing more pvp than questing with the new queue anywhere.  That's a really great feature.  But, to the point, I have seen a number of games lately where one side will get the first two points then someone will pick up the flag and camp in front of their tunnel farming particularly bad teams.  Its not something I have really seen before.  While the 20 minute time limit will really hurt those very rare balanced games, for the most part it will be handy, balanced games are that rare.

[Kageru]

Earth Shock: Redesigned. This spell no longer interrupts spell casting, but rather reduces melee attack speed by 10% for 8 seconds (exclusive with similar effects such as Thunder Clap).

What is the point of this?

It is the most random change in recent memory.

It's not random at all. Enhance (and I assume elemental) DPS is balanced on using shocks on cooldown. Which means it cannot function as a spell interrupt. They've finally accepted this and split the functions so that shock spells are for DPS and the spell interrupt is an entirely independent utility.

[Gobbeldygook]

It's not random at all.

Splitting up earth shock and wind shock is not random.  Giving Earth Shock a useless -10% attack speed debuff is definitely random.

[Lightstalker]

It's not random at all.

Splitting up earth shock and wind shock is not random.  Giving Earth Shock a useless -10% attack speed debuff is definitely random.

Yeah, everyone knows it needed a 30m pushback.

[Ratama]

It's not random at all.

Splitting up earth shock and wind shock is not random.  Giving Earth Shock a useless -10% attack speed debuff is definitely random.

Yeah, everyone knows it needed a 30m pushback.

 Much better better to give it an effect so shitty that no Shaman will bother to hotkey it.

And...

The moment you give one player different abilities than another, balance becomes impossible. Everything that follows is a quagmire of player bitching, dev patching, and killers getting lost in the fray.

... is horseshit.  The class design/balance team isn't 1/10th as talented/effective as their technical team. 

Their current design philosophy doesn't even give them a chance to get it right; doing so isn't nearly as hard as they make it look, if you simply give classes features that work and cut unfun stuff that doesn't.  It's taken them 5+ years to realize that maybe Rogues shouldn't be cc-heavy glass cannons?

[Ingmar]

Isn't it still part of the enhance dps rotation regardless?

[Vash]

Isn't it still part of the enhance dps rotation regardless?

Yes, unless stormstrike also suddenly stops giving a bonus to nature damage.

[Ratama]

Isn't it still part of the enhance dps rotation regardless?

For PvE, yes.  Basically, Earth Shock might as well read 'No longer effect Player Character targets'.

Too bad they didn't make it 20%; at least it might be a decision to make for 2v2 arena (that is, if Enhance Shamans were allowed to arena, or if 2v2 wasn't getting effectively removed from game).

[Ingmar]

What about PVP stops you from using it there now?

EDIT: Duh, frost shock. I don't really see the problem though. Oh no, a spell isn't useful in PVP but has a completely viable, useful alternative that is.

[SurfD]

It's taken them 5+ years to realize that maybe Rogues shouldn't be cc-heavy glass cannons?

That isnt the issue with rogues at all.
Rogues would be fine if CC heavy glass cannons was all they were.  Problem is, they ALSO have more escape / survival tools then any other class in the game at the same time, meaning that if they DO screw up their CC rotation, all they have to do is Clos / Vanish and re start on you all over again.

[Vash]

What about PVP stops you from using it there now?

Nothing, as a matter of fact I speak from experience when I say that one of the few things I fear in PvP as a disc priest is a non-retarded enhancement shaman.

Purge -> Purge -> Stormstrike -> Earth shock on a penance  + Wolves and/or Heroism if they really wanna be nasty.   

Only effective tactic against them is to fear and then run for your life and hope someone can gib them or cc them for ya.

With the change to Earth shock, now they'll at least have to decide between a spell interupt or additional damage instead of getting them both in a nice convenient package.

[Ratama]

It's taken them 5+ years to realize that maybe Rogues shouldn't be cc-heavy glass cannons?

That isnt the issue with rogues at all.

Yes, it is. That's the sort of class design that makes people hate PvP. Knowing that you're dead unless the Rogue stunlocking you fucks up is really, really shitty game design.

The escape mechanisms are fine; I don't like losing control of my character on a regular basis, and being told 'Kill them once you're out of stunlock; see, balanced!'.

[kildorn]

Denial classes Piss Players Off. That's like, gameplay 101. They can be interesting to play, but will royally piss anyone on the receiving end off.

That said, the only thing about rogues that really gets me is Fan of Knives right now. I never thought it was absurd until I saw 3 rogues with it run into an AV lord room and proceed to wipe 30 players with it. Do they really need a no cooldown AE kick?

[Shatter]

Denial classes Piss Players Off. That's like, gameplay 101. They can be interesting to play, but will royally piss anyone on the receiving end off.

That said, the only thing about rogues that really gets me is Fan of Knives right now. I never thought it was absurd until I saw 3 rogues with it run into an AV lord room and proceed to wipe 30 players with it. Do they really need a no cooldown AE kick?

Yes, for when you just need to kill every mother f*cker in the room

[Soulflame]

The one that infuriates me is when a rogue uses fan of knives from inside a demolisher in Strand.  That really shouldn't be allowed.

[Zetor]

Fan of Knives is balanced.  
http://www.filefront.com/pureskillwmv/;13772099;/fileinfo.html

(as you can see, 5v5 arena emphasizes coordination and player skill)

[Ingmar]

Denial classes Piss Players Off. That's like, gameplay 101. They can be interesting to play, but will royally piss anyone on the receiving end off.

That said, the only thing about rogues that really gets me is Fan of Knives right now. I never thought it was absurd until I saw 3 rogues with it run into an AV lord room and proceed to wipe 30 players with it. Do they really need a no cooldown AE kick?

Don't forget the mortal strike poison AE delivery.

[K9]

Fan of Knives is balanced.  
http://www.filefront.com/pureskillwmv/;13772099;/fileinfo.html

(as you can see, 5v5 arena emphasizes coordination and player skill)

Isn't 1220 pretty low rating even by 5s standards?

[Fordel]

I honestly don't even know anymore, 5's is so underplayed.



Rogues are a shitty class because in every Rogue vs Anything encounter, either the Rogue or the Anything will feel entirely helpless. Not "Oh I lost" It's "Oh, I lost and I can't do anything different the next time".

[Ingmar]

I honestly don't even know anymore, 5's is so underplayed.



Rogues are a shitty class because in every Rogue vs Anything encounter, either the Rogue or the Anything will feel entirely helpless. Not "Oh I lost" It's "Oh, I lost and I can't do anything different the next time".

Yep. I basically can't lose to a rogue as a geared protection warrior. Especially with stoneform to knock off poisons if they try to run and regroup.

[Sheepherder]

With the change to Earth shock, now they'll at least have to decide between a spell interupt or additional damage instead of getting them both in a nice convenient package.

Chances are Wind Shear will be off the global cooldown.

[Ingmar]

With the change to Earth shock, now they'll at least have to decide between a spell interupt or additional damage instead of getting them both in a nice convenient package.

Chances are Wind Shear will be off the global cooldown.

Yeah, whatever else there is to say about these changes, they don't make enhance shamans less dangerous.

[Fordel]

Wind Shear is indeed off the GCD.


Really, the change means a Enhance Shaman isn't choosing between Snare or Interrupt, it can be both now!