The Sims 3

[Yegolev]

Sjofn made my exact point, except she used girl-talk instead of boy-talk.

Sure, I can take He-Man shoppping, but he doesn't have a purse or Ken for holding packages.

Also, I don't know why you people have idiotic Sims. Mine never die by accident.

I'll say that I am talking about the original The Sims.  I did not play the second one at all because it acts ALL FUCKED UP if you install it somewhere other than on C: (how about that for "not a real game", not that I'm not making that argument myself).  I've seen my fair share of household deaths, mostly kitchen fires, that may not exist in #2.  By contrast, locking one in a one-square room (with glass walls for guest viewing) did not cause them to die quickly at all.

[Sjofn]

Sjofn made my exact point, except she used girl-talk instead of boy-talk.

Sure, I can take He-Man shoppping, but he doesn't have a purse or Ken for holding packages.

He has Man-at-Arms instead. 

[schild]

I don't subscribe to schild's weird ONLY THESE KINDS OF GAMES ARE REAL GAMES philosophy

What are you talking about?

I reserve shit like that for Wii Fit. Things that are very obviously not games.

There's a reason I brought up the Natsume games.

I KNOW I have seen you say the Sims is Not A Game.

You know, I'm pretty sure I haven't. But feel free to dig through 35,000 posts to find it. Perhaps I did, perhaps I didn't, the fact still stands that you're a woman and you didn't explain why you like it. You merely explained how the Sims are like playing with dolls (or rather, were specific in that comparison).

[Lantyssa]

It allows for social gameplay without the real world intruding and reminding you that sometimes it's preferable to play by yourself.

[schild]

It allows for social gameplay without the real world intruding and reminding you that sometimes it's preferable to play by yourself.

Isn't that what masturbation is for?

[Sjofn]

Yeah, I ain't digging through your post history. If you say you didn't, that's fine, I definitely had the impression that you felt Sim games in general were not "real" games, though.

I can't explain why I like playing any of the games I like, which is why I didn't bother to try to explain why I like the Sims. I don't really know why I like leveling up characters in WoW, I don't know why I like city builders, and I don't really know why I like playing the Sims. I can tell you what parts of the game I enjoy (I really like building buildings, for example), but not why, or at least not in a way that's going to satisfy, say, you.

I like to build buildings. I like making little people and guiding them through their little lives. I can lose hours to that, just like I can lose hours to making my little person in D&D go through their little adventuring life or making little shapes line up in such a way to get tetris after tetris after tetris.

[Samwise]

Also, I don't know why you people have idiotic Sims. Mine never die by accident.

In Sims 1 I accidentally killed a Sim by building a diving board on a pool before I was able to afford a ladder.  Sim dove in, swam around for an hour, then drowned while I watched helplessly.

[Sjofn]

It allows for social gameplay without the real world intruding and reminding you that sometimes it's preferable to play by yourself.

This is why Sims Online baffled me. Half the point is NOT having to deal with real people, yeesh!


EDIT: I think I had a person die changing a light bulb in Sims 1 and that's the only accidental death I had the entire time I played that one. I'm not saying the no-ladder-the-Sim-is-doomed thing makes perfect sense or whatever, but I do have a hard time believing people's sims died by accident regularly enough to create such angst. 

[Murgos]

There actually isn't a difference between playing with Barbie in her dream house and He-man in Castle Greyskull, except the sex-role baggage attached to it.

Saying that they are exactly the same other than the way they are entirely different seems kind of like cheating to make a point.  A boy won't play with a Barbie the way you do, he'll most likely run around with her judo chopping Ken and then driving her in her car into a lit barbecue grill while doused in gasoline.

Kind of the whole point of why the Sims doesn't appeal that much to 'straight' men is exactly because boys don't play with dolls the way girls do, the sex-role baggage as you put it.

It doesn't make the Sims gameplay wrong in general, it just makes it wrong for boys (and most of the readers of this website).

[Ingmar]

There actually isn't a difference between playing with Barbie in her dream house and He-man in Castle Greyskull, except the sex-role baggage attached to it.

Saying that they are exactly the same other than the way they are entirely different seems kind of like cheating to make a point.  A boy won't play with a Barbie the way you do, he'll most likely run around with her judo chopping Ken and then driving her in her car into a lit barbecue grill while doused in gasoline.

Kind of the whole point of why the Sims doesn't appeal that much to 'straight' men is exactly because boys don't play with dolls the way girls do, the sex-role baggage as you put it.

It doesn't make the Sims gameplay wrong in general, it just makes it wrong for boys (and most of the readers of this website).

No you're missing the point. The boy will play with the Barbie the same way the girl does, more or less, if he's never had any pressure to 'act like a boy should act because that's how we say they should act'. The role baggage is mostly not inherent. Also hi2u Politics forum!

[Murgos]

The question was "Why don't boys like The Sims"?  The answer is, "Because, for what ever reason, they are different."

The question was never "Why are boys different than girls?"

[NiX]

This forum is made up of majority males. This thread is on page 4. Your point has become moot.

[tmp]

Kind of the whole point of why the Sims doesn't appeal that much to 'straight' men (..)

On what presumptions do you base your facts?

[Yegolev]

No you're missing the point. The boy will play with the Barbie the same way the girl does, more or less, if he's never had any pressure to 'act like a boy should act because that's how we say they should act'. The role baggage is mostly not inherent. Also hi2u Politics forum!

Naturally, it's more subtle than that.  Plenty of "more or less" in there, but we all know this.  My son has a playhouse and often has made me dinner in it using his rather-pink kitchen set.  Currently he plays Tea Shop with his Gran, which he tells me is entirely different from Tea Party because he's selling tea to his stuffed animals.  It is indeed subtle with lots of crossover.  Also, I can tell you that the biases exist internally to a degree.  The boy just isn't interested in traditional doll-play, and he does like destroying things such as block-forts and sofa-cushion-forts.  Apparently boys like to see things explode.

[Ingmar]

No you're missing the point. The boy will play with the Barbie the same way the girl does, more or less, if he's never had any pressure to 'act like a boy should act because that's how we say they should act'. The role baggage is mostly not inherent. Also hi2u Politics forum!

Naturally, it's more subtle than that.  Plenty of "more or less" in there, but we all know this.  My son has a playhouse and often has made me dinner in it using his rather-pink kitchen set.  Currently he plays Tea Shop with his Gran, which he tells me is entirely different from Tea Party because he's selling tea to his stuffed animals.  It is indeed subtle with lots of crossover.  Also, I can tell you that the biases exist internally to a degree.  The boy just isn't interested in traditional doll-play, and he does like destroying things such as block-forts and sofa-cushion-forts.  Apparently boys like to see things explode.

Or at least, that one.

To get more back on topic, I think the fundamental divide in whether or not the Sims appeals to you as a game is actually less about what the trappings of the game are (relationships, houses, things instead of exploding space robots) and more about where you are going with it. The reason the game doesn't appeal to me isn't tied up in that stuff; it is mostly about the fact that there's no objective at all, you just kind of 'go'. It is one of the same reasons I prefer WoW to Eve, and I don't think anyone would describe Eve as a traditionally girly game. I just can't get very into a game that gives you no direction at *all*.

My guess is (and it is just a guess), for people who really hate the Sims, probably the root cause for many if not most of them is that they need more structure/direction in their games to hold their attention.

[rk47]

I thought Sims 2 and 3 had lifelong aspiration to prod you further and reward you for it. If that's not enough I don't know what is. Creating your own objective has always been part of the Sims game mechanics, much like the time I spent in Simcity 2000 just figuring how to please my citizens and officials (YOU CANNOT CUT DOWN FUNDING ON ROADWORKS U WILL REGRET THIS!!!)  then after all that hard work I click on Save Game, then Disaster for fun. And then start over again.

What will probably draw me back in is yes, more expansions and objects. Btw, how is the modding in this game done? I haven't seen any objects for download outside of EA store.

[Ingmar]

Well my point is not intended to say that there's something wrong with a game being essentially objective-less. I had a bit of the same problem with SimCity; city builders with scenarios a la the various Tilted Mill games held my interest a lot longer.

[Sjofn]

I thought Sims 2 and 3 had lifelong aspiration to prod you further and reward you for it. If that's not enough I don't know what is. Creating your own objective has always been part of the Sims game mechanics, much like the time I spent in Simcity 2000 just figuring how to please my citizens and officials (YOU CANNOT CUT DOWN FUNDING ON ROADWORKS U WILL REGRET THIS!!!)  then after all that hard work I click on Save Game, then Disaster for fun. And then start over again.

What will probably draw me back in is yes, more expansions and objects. Btw, how is the modding in this game done? I haven't seen any objects for download outside of EA store.

They do, but Ingmar never tried Sims 2 and won't let me download Sims 3 for him to not bother trying.

I sucked at SimCity 2000 so bad. I loved it, I don't know why, but maaaaan was I terrible.

[Ratman_tf]

I really played Sims 1 and 2 and I can really tell you that it's really nothing like Guitar Hero.

I don't know if you're intentionally being obtuse, so I'll just throw up a smiley. 

[Ratman_tf]

What will probably draw me back in is yes, more expansions and objects. Btw, how is the modding in this game done? I haven't seen any objects for download outside of EA store.

I haven't looked into it much yet, but I imagine they've got to get ahold of the game and reverse engineer the assets like the past games.
Now that you mention it, I haven't seen much on the main Sims 3 site about it, besides the in-game customizability.

[schild]

I really played Sims 1 and 2 and I can really tell you that it's really nothing like Guitar Hero.

I don't know if you're intentionally being obtuse, so I'll just throw up a smiley. 

No, obtuse is calling a link to Amazon so f13 gets kickbacks an interstitial ad.

The Guitar Hero comparison was just the suck.

[Yegolev]

I'm going to postulate that the S3 modding community won't get into full swing until after release.

Also, not that I know much about it, but modding the previous two was barely supported.  I mean that it was possible but there are not too many tools available from EA to make the process easy.  In particular, Sims 1 was mostly a hackjob and it was apparently very difficult to get your perspective right so your chair did not look like a deflated marshmallow.  S2 used 3D models, which had another host of problems if you did not have a 3D rendering app, but they added much better support for community content.  I'm hoping EA provides even more support for the mod community in S3, if only for my own sanity and that of my wife, but I am also very sure we will not have full enlightenment on how to mod properly for a few months.

[Merusk]

There's a big bug in the game and I think it's one of the office chairs or the home computer.  Both my sims are completly buggered and gone invis/ unable to move now and the game takes 5 mins to unload information so I can get to an older save.  It happened after they both sat in the task chair and played around on the computer.  Bah!

[Ratman_tf]

I really played Sims 1 and 2 and I can really tell you that it's really nothing like Guitar Hero.

I don't know if you're intentionally being obtuse, so I'll just throw up a smiley. 

No, obtuse is calling a link to Amazon so f13 gets kickbacks an interstitial ad.

The Guitar Hero comparison was just the suck.

 

[rattran]

There's a big bug in the game and I think it's one of the office chairs or the home computer.  Both my sims are completly buggered and gone invis/ unable to move now and the game takes 5 mins to unload information so I can get to an older save.  It happened after they both sat in the task chair and played around on the computer.  Bah!

So, your sims log onto the internet, start messing around and never move again? Just seem to sit there forever fading away? Seems reasonable.

[FatuousTwat]

I'm going to postulate that the S3 modding community won't get into full swing until after release.

Also, not that I know much about it, but modding the previous two was barely supported.  I mean that it was possible but there are not too many tools available from EA to make the process easy.  In particular, Sims 1 was mostly a hackjob and it was apparently very difficult to get your perspective right so your chair did not look like a deflated marshmallow.  S2 used 3D models, which had another host of problems if you did not have a 3D rendering app, but they added much better support for community content.  I'm hoping EA provides even more support for the mod community in S3, if only for my own sanity and that of my wife, but I am also very sure we will not have full enlightenment on how to mod properly for a few months.

Since they are going to be selling in game items for real money, I doubt they are going to encourage 3rd party modding.

[Merusk]

There's a big bug in the game and I think it's one of the office chairs or the home computer.  Both my sims are completly buggered and gone invis/ unable to move now and the game takes 5 mins to unload information so I can get to an older save.  It happened after they both sat in the task chair and played around on the computer.  Bah!

So, your sims log onto the internet, start messing around and never move again? Just seem to sit there forever fading away? Seems reasonable.

Heh, funny, but yeah they sit in the chair and lock-up.  I had to trash that save entirely, which irritates me because I'd finally hit career level 10, "work whenever the fuck you want to."

[Numtini]

*laughs* mine booted up this morning and bitched at me for running an unauthorized copy. Still runs though--I think it's just a browser link in the launcher.

Overall, it seems to run slower. It seems like I spend a load of time fast forwarding as compared to Sims 2.I'm guessing I'm supposed to be managing a bunch of sims and not just my one family.

[NiX]

No, that's a bug with the speed controls. Level 4 speed is slower than 3 sometimes and the most it'll ever do is go as fast as 3. As for the unauthorized copy, just block Sims with a firewall. I just disconnect from the internet.

[Sheepherder]

Boy / Girl Debate / Gay Man:

Boys would love the Sims if you could build your own shopping centres to gun down.  Alternatively, they would enjoy it if the AI easily took care of everything and they could just sit back and watch Lord of the Flies unfold dynamically in a way that was a little more intense than watching a man piss himself and then pass out in the puddle in a bathroom after he's done weeping.

Case in point: my sister had fun managing her little family.  I had fun seducing her daughter in my Quagmire-styled basement room with a camera prop set up in a closet with a window adjoining the room/secret closet.  I think I even ran a screen recorder so I could hear (my sister's) indignant reaction.  Building stuff was pretty cool as well, to be entirely honest I think that's one of the main attractions of the series, is that it lets you build shit without being as obtuse as a level editor and while maintaining a sort of dialogue as you progress through building shit.

I'm actually sort of curious as to why they don't have a bunch of different character-specific AI types ("Strong" vs. "Weak" with variants and objectives for different flavours of behaviour modifiable per character) because you could probably make a passable Meta-game out of letting a strong AI manage the characters and play it like an actual simulator rather than a glorified dolls.

[Azazel]

I think I would play that.

What puts me off from the sims is the excessive (to me) levels of micromanagement. If there was a setting so that the little fuckers would, say, go to the toilet when they needed to. Or you could give them bladder control for a period of time when doing something else (hey, just like I have to manage when I go to work). Similar if you could just select "dinner" and have the little bastards then cook, eat (at a table) then clean up their crap without micromanagent.

Or even another toggle to make them do it all independantly, so then I have the choice of watching my ant farm run about by itself and then just reach down with the hand of god when I want to intervene, then sit back again.

[rk47]

There's a fail-safe now in Sims 3. They will automatically take appropriate action when certain bars hit dangerous levels.There are less cases of floor wetting and fainting from exhaustion since Sims with critical energy levels would definitely head for bed and restricted from doing any work activities. When most bars are at safe levels they would automatically have their own fun according to their own personalities i.e, athletic sims would work out, some flick on TV, artistic ones paint a picture, social types would chat online or dial their pals for a chat. Despite this improvement, I have not noticed them going out of their homes to other venues except when heading to work, but it is generally safe to leave them on their own devices when outside. They will automatically queue a trip home when their energy bar is down to 3 hours left and will eat, have a drink at appropirate lots when they like it.

Perhaps I should observe a house of 2 sims who are polar opposites of each other. Find them a job and just let them go by themselves.

[Tale]

So basically the lack of good new MMORPGs is turning straight nerds gay. We're playing Sims 3 and Free Realms. Soon we'll be fawning over Bruno. We're fabulous.

[Tarami]

Not one of my Sims have ever wet themselves, starved to death, passed out or gone around being smelly for hours. -I- have made sure all those things have happened, of course, but it doesn't happen spontaneously.

Also, you can click the debuff icons to command them to do it earlier than they would do it automatically. Saves you having to find the exact item they need to interact with.

I would like to be able to set a weekly allowance for my Sims, so they would hit town a bit more. Would make raising Charisma even with a Charismatic sim less of a grind.

[tmp]

I'm actually sort of curious as to why they don't have a bunch of different character-specific AI types ("Strong" vs. "Weak" with variants and objectives for different flavours of behaviour modifiable per character) because you could probably make a passable Meta-game out of letting a strong AI manage the characters and play it like an actual simulator rather than a glorified dolls.

That's how the character traits are supposed to work in Sims 3 if i get it right. It's also how i played the Sims actually -- the AI was competent enough (in Sims 2 at least) to take care of their basic needs most of the time as long as you didn't interfere with your own instructions. So just left them to their things and only made them carry out actions if that'd lead to granting them specific wishes/goals they "desired" in the wish panel. It's like handling a role-playing session with completely retarded group, and the resulting stories and twists are often much funnier than anything you'd come up with actively on your own.