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Author Topic: This game needs more PvE  (Read 10580 times)
Modern Angel
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on: May 11, 2009, 05:43:12 PM

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/67820

It also needs a trailer with a script that is eerily similar to Arthas' crap from the WLK trailer.
Ingmar
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Reply #1 on: May 11, 2009, 06:01:00 PM

That speech isn't ripping off Arthas, it's ripping off Illidan (and Shelley).  why so serious?

EDIT: Glad to see Mythic is sticking to their pattern of fucking things up with Egyptian-themed PVE expansions.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #2 on: May 11, 2009, 10:38:01 PM

That's coming out fall 2004 right?

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #3 on: May 12, 2009, 01:40:11 AM

Voice over guy sounded ill.

Nerfs incoming.

Quote
At Baltimore Games Day we had a chance to sit down with Nate Levy to talk about careers, RvR, and class balance, which is a very touchy subject in Warhammer Online. Players have been crying “foul!” on Bright Wizard and Sorcerer area of effect attacks and the lack of survivability for tanks and DPS classes in the game.
...
The largest issues right now players seem to be facing are the Bright Wizard and Sorcerer AOE groups in RvR. They are made up of a tank for protection, healers, and a Bright Wizard/Sorcerer who is spamming damage all around. Nate explained that these groups are a bit too effective and some changes are in the works. The Bright Wizard is the only career really doing anything active in the fight. Nate had this to say on the topic:
“Right now Bright Wizard and Sorcerer PBAOE bomb groups. People realize that these characters can do a lot of area damage, so they stack a group of a tank to guard, three healers, and a Bright Wizard and they do nothing but concentrate all these five people’s output through one person and they do very well at it,” he said. “Especially against uncoordinated groups who don’t realize you just take out the healers and the Bright Wizard is toast.”
Trippy
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Reply #4 on: May 12, 2009, 01:46:17 AM

Hey, they are finally getting around to fixing the problems from early Beta. Good for them!
FatuousTwat
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Reply #5 on: May 12, 2009, 01:46:42 AM

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/67820

It also needs a trailer with a script that is eerily similar to Arthas' crap from the WLK trailer.

Mark Jacobs to WAR subscribers: "Look upon my works... And despair."

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #6 on: May 12, 2009, 01:47:32 AM

Stolen from Warhammer Alliance.

Quote from: PhoenixRed
Those of you who are looking for a summary of all the great points and footage from Land of the Dead for this weekend's Games Day Baltimore can look no further than this thread!

  • The Land of the Dead's access is controlled by competing resource gathering. Resources are gotten through ORvR kills or Zone Control in Tier 4. it is meant for ranks 25 - 40, and the bolster buff will put players to rank 36 in the zone.

  • When one faction achieves the required resources, they are allowed to travel to the area and access the content unrestricted for 30 minutes (subject to change). After this, the resource collection begins again, with the winning faction starting from zero and the losing faction starting from where they left off.
  • A handicap system, awarding more resource value per resource item, will be in place to assist realms on servers that are struggling to gain resources or are constantly on the defensive.

  • The Land of the Dead's main area has 18 different Public Quests, each with their own unique dynamic. For example, one PQ carries you into Carrion Nests to destroy eggs, while another features an Obelisk that buffs or debuffs you.

  • The Land of the Dead's zone is roughly the size of Reikland, but entirely RvR-enabled (except for warcamps of course)

  • Land of the Dead's PQ's give out glyphs to all contributors. The glyphs determine access to the four different lairs within the main area.

  • Land of the Dead PQ's are meant to be solo-friendly, which means Champion mobs won't suddenly force you from the area. You can still farm a PQ if you want.

  • The Tomb of the Vulture King is the main dungeon in Land of the Dead. The loot within is roughly on par with/slightly above Lost Vale gear.

  • The dungeon itself contains traps which must be disarmed by some of your party members to move forward.

  • The Land of the Dead's inspiration was gleaned from action RPGs and Indiana Jones-style encounters.

  • When zone control flips to the other side, the invading realm gaining control receives quests and the opportunity to purge the defenders within. Because you cannot get rewards from or otherwise do the PQ's in the main area while enemies are around, players will have incentive to attack enemy players.

  • When going to an instance, you may choose to start a new one or invade an enemy one. Invading an enemy instance and participating in those tasks gives out rewards and other benefits exclusive to purging enemy invaders.

  • Defenders will have to make conscious choices - they can hold the line outdoors, or if in an instance, they can re-arm the traps and re-direct invaders to trash mobs in an attempt to delay their progress. Because defenders, if they cannot be raised, will respawn in their capital cities, there is a certain element of risk involved.

  • Defenders can also choose to log out or use other methods of preserving progress such as pushing ahead as far as possible into the encounters.

  • The Land of the Dead's zone control is meant to flip at least twice a night, though again, this is a working number and could change.

  • As part of this implementation, the ward system is being overhauled into a sigil system. Wards will no longer be attached to actual armor but instead tied to achievements in the Tome of Knowledge, such as killing the boss that dropped that armor. Wards can then be combined into sigils which have the same effects wards do now. This allows players to mix and match set pieces, and retain wards/sigils even if they don't have the armor pieces.
  • The implementation will also revise the lockout system, allowing players with partial or no progression to be able to join up with those that have further progression.

If you think of any more you see from the videos or other coverage about the event, please let me know and I can add them!
FatuousTwat
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Reply #7 on: May 12, 2009, 01:51:17 AM

Hey, they are finally getting around to fixing the problems from early Beta. Good for them!

They have been trying to balance tanks vs casters since DAoC's beta.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
UnSub
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Reply #8 on: May 12, 2009, 02:26:42 AM

  • As part of this implementation, the ward system is being overhauled into a sigil system. Wards will no longer be attached to actual armor but instead tied to achievements in the Tome of Knowledge, such as killing the boss that dropped that armor. Wards can then be combined into sigils which have the same effects wards do now. This allows players to mix and match set pieces, and retain wards/sigils even if they don't have the armor pieces.

Are these achievements already tracked in the ToK?

Bismallah
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Reply #9 on: May 12, 2009, 03:41:04 AM

It will hold folk's attention for a couple months max. Sounds like a mix of Darkness Falls, Catacombs, the Labyrinth from the Minotaur expansion and Champion Levels from DAOC. So someone is trying to go back and build upon what seemed to work with DAOC, I guess I can't sling a lot of poo for that. I still don't see how they are going to grow with this, just hold onto who they have and pray nothing else comes out soon to pull their subs away.

Edit: This seems really early to have such a large piece of the game to come in, wouldn't this have been planned for the fall/winter AFTER they made the class changes?

Jherad
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Reply #10 on: May 12, 2009, 04:56:59 AM

Quote
  • Defenders can also choose to log out or use other methods of preserving progress such as pushing ahead as far as possible into the encounters.

Mmm. Logging out becomes an intended game mechanic. Sounds like a winner.
Xuri
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몇살이세욬ㅋ 몇살이 몇살 몇살이세욬ㅋ!!!!!1!


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Reply #11 on: May 12, 2009, 05:40:05 AM

Will Ozymandias be a raid boss in this expansion?

-= Ho Eyo He Hum =-
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #12 on: May 12, 2009, 06:26:10 AM

Games Day Baltimore - Interview with Josh Drescher and Paul Barnett

Interview Part 1

Interview Part 2

Edit, they originally planned for 256 different careers?  That version of Warhammer online might have been interesting.

http://www.amazon.com/Warhammer-Fantasy-Roleplay-Career-Compendium/dp/1589944801

Quote
The Career Compendium features more than 220 official careers spanning the entire breadth of the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay line
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 07:24:53 AM by Arthur_Parker »
Nevermore
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Reply #13 on: May 12, 2009, 08:07:19 AM

The Tomb Kings sounds like what happens to the Gypsy Kings after they die.

Over and out.
raydeen
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Reply #14 on: May 12, 2009, 09:09:56 AM

Damn. Now I want to go play Serious Sam.

I was drinking when I wrote this, so sue me if it goes astray.
schild
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Reply #15 on: May 12, 2009, 09:38:42 AM

Will Ozymandias be a raid boss in this expansion?

This is the best post in the thread, by far.
Nija
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Reply #16 on: May 12, 2009, 11:03:45 AM

All of these artificial bullshit limits are what keep pushing me further and further away from this game.

Anyone that bothers to resub will have to read a fucking encyclopedia worth of information to know "the rules".

It's like they're trying to duct tape Falcon 4 rules on to additional levels of the game, when the prior levels of the game have the complexity of Afterburner.

In other words. TRAIN WRECK. Expect to lose more subs. Expect Paul B to not understand why.
Special J
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Reply #17 on: May 12, 2009, 11:51:54 AM

Quote
When one faction achieves the required resources, they are allowed to travel to the area and access the content unrestricted for 30 minutes (subject to change). After this, the resource collection begins again, with the winning faction starting from zero and the losing faction starting from where they left off.

Am i reading this right?  They've got this mini expansion and Mythic can't tell you enough how awesome it is. In fact it is so awesome  they can only let you play it for 30 minutes at a time because you may injure yourself from the continuous raging hardon?

 swamp poop

Please tell me this is just some sort of 'head start' period for an event or something.  Or is that a way to lock the other faction out for a while? I don't get it.

Goodbye Keep Trading, hello Zone Trading!

Hey, they are finally getting around to fixing the problems from early Beta. Good for them!

Hey, how many months did it take them to catch up to Everquest circa 2002 and add item linking?
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #18 on: May 12, 2009, 11:53:06 AM

Was I the only one who thought the in game footage looked like crap? Not to mention the generic egyptian-esque setting that seems to be used in every fucking rpg ever.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Hindenburg
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Reply #19 on: May 12, 2009, 11:58:39 AM

I can't wait for the volcano raid zone.

"Who uses Outlook anyway?  People who get what they deserve, that's who." - Ard.
Special J
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Reply #20 on: May 12, 2009, 12:23:52 PM

Was I the only one who thought the in game footage looked like crap? Not to mention the generic egyptian-esque setting that seems to be used in every fucking rpg ever.

Sure but I guess you can blame the original IP for that.
Sjofn
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Reply #21 on: May 12, 2009, 12:30:49 PM

Quote
  • Defenders can also choose to log out or use other methods of preserving progress such as pushing ahead as far as possible into the encounters.

Mmm. Logging out becomes an intended game mechanic. Sounds like a winner.

Ha, I had a similar thought. Logging out! Hooray! This game RULES!

God Save the Horn Players
pxib
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Reply #22 on: May 12, 2009, 12:36:38 PM

Was I the only one who thought the in game footage looked like crap? Not to mention the generic egyptian-esque setting that seems to be used in every fucking rpg ever.
They've had that problem all along. Just like in more recent DAoC expansions, they have a wide variety of levels of  detail. Good looking models and textures wind up standing next to blocky crap. As J points out, Warhammer is designed to make thousands of tiny unarticulated figures look immediately distinct rather than to capture a particular aesthetic. Those skeletons, for example, are in that ridiculous pose while patrolling because that's how they're identified by fans... but it's a fighting stance. They wouldn't just stroll around like that, even if the figures do.

Shoddy art direction.

Logging out was a good method of preserving progress in Darkness Falls. It let you hide until the gank group got bored. I imagine that's all they mean here. Why should stealth classes have all the fun? Immersive realism? Please.
March
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Reply #23 on: May 12, 2009, 12:46:21 PM

Quote
The Land of the Dead's main area has 18 different Public Quests, each with their own unique dynamic. For example, one PQ carries you into Carrion Nests to destroy eggs, while another features an Obelisk that buffs or debuffs you.

Has it not been stated rather emphatically across the various interweb talkie places that one of the major failings of the Public Quest system was the uncontrolled proliferation of fragmented and (ultimately) under-populated PQ's?

Tier I newbie PQ = joy
Tier III, Chapter 14, Dwarf PQ number 2 of 3 = despair

If I'm reading the updated Release 11 of the Compendium of WaR Fun correctly, 18 new PQ's that do not work with enemies in the area... with a 30 min timer allowing more enemies in the area... seems to almost certainly guarantee some sort of PQ Blue Ball-ism?  Endless PQ frustration baked right in to the pie?

Logging out as a Zone Mechanic?

Admittedly critiquing a second-hand report of a design spec is iffy... but nothing is screaming: RETURN TO BASICS.

.... I played this game once, it was pretty cool, there was this dungeon that had good PvE spots that you could claim for your side for a while, then the other side could gain control and flood in and fight you.  I had fun there.
ghost
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Reply #24 on: May 12, 2009, 01:15:14 PM

PQs should scale in difficulty for the number of people that are involved.  If there is just one doing the PQ it should be a 1 person difficulty PQ.  If there are fifty it should scale appropriately.
Hindenburg
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Itto


Reply #25 on: May 12, 2009, 01:23:19 PM

PQs should scale in difficulty for the number of people that are involved.  If there is just one doing the PQ it should be a 1 person difficulty PQ.  If there are fifty it should scale appropriately.

As is, they scale in loot only. You can't get purple or gold bags unless there are enough people present, even if you do all of the work by yourself.
Yes, brilliant idea, I know.

"Who uses Outlook anyway?  People who get what they deserve, that's who." - Ard.
Segoris
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Reply #26 on: May 12, 2009, 01:31:27 PM

PQs should scale in difficulty for the number of people that are involved.  If there is just one doing the PQ it should be a 1 person difficulty PQ.  If there are fifty it should scale appropriately.

As is, they scale in loot only. You can't get purple or gold bags unless there are enough people present, even if you do all of the work by yourself.
Yes, brilliant idea, I know.

Does this change per chapter? I did a trial recently, to see the Choppa, and with two other people in a pq I won a purple in ch2. Or is it possible with solo/duo/trio groups but just more unlikely?
Hindenburg
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Itto


Reply #27 on: May 12, 2009, 01:36:31 PM

Depends also on PQ difficulty.

"Who uses Outlook anyway?  People who get what they deserve, that's who." - Ard.
Votan
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Reply #28 on: May 12, 2009, 04:04:00 PM

Originally I thought the idea of public quest was a good one, till I actually played.  They are boring and mindless, mostly just a tweaked grinding session.  Kill this many of bunnies, next kill this many rabbits, then kill the Easter Bunny with his henchman.  A few are somewhat different both mostly just the mob skins change per chapter.   

I can not believe with all the issues, bugs, and general horrible design that they actually wasted time with an "expansion" when the core game still sucks.  Mythic does not have a clue.  Keep designing the same failed crap Paul!!  Sort of like watching a monkey trying to fit a square peg in a round circle over and over again thinking eventually it will fit......I wish I could fuck up this bad a work and keep my job.
pxib
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Reply #29 on: May 12, 2009, 04:36:40 PM

The idea of a public quest is a good one. Instead of wandering to the various stages of a quest, those stages come to you. Repetition can dull the shine, of course, but it spoils instanced dungeons too. WAR screwed it up the same way it screwed up everything else:
- Crappy PvE class abilities
- Boring, identical mobs with boring, mindless AIs
- Idiotic bag drop reward scheme

WAR's public quests suck because the grind sucks no matter what you're doing. If the rewards were doled out sensibly, the killing had a little variety, and the character classes were fun to play, then public quests wouldn't be any worse than any other sort of grindy gameplay.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #30 on: May 12, 2009, 04:49:25 PM

I can not believe with all the issues, bugs, and general horrible design that they actually wasted time with an "expansion" when the core game still sucks. 

As mentioned in the interview, the artists and pve quest guys can't actually fix any of that.  I'm not defending them, it just makes sense, I'd imagine all this content was somewhere in the pipeline before release.  Thread title says it all really.
Modern Angel
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Reply #31 on: May 12, 2009, 05:04:13 PM

Yeah, this wasn't thrown together in the past three weeks. All the same it's MORE FUCKING PVE which is just what?

The Sigil idea is fair, by the way. Not that the PvE gateway should have ever been added but at least you can just run the shitty dungeons once each this way.
Azuredream
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Reply #32 on: May 12, 2009, 06:18:16 PM

Quote from: PhoenixRed
  • When zone control flips to the other side, the invading realm gaining control receives quests and the opportunity to purge the defenders within. Because you cannot get rewards from or otherwise do the PQ's in the main area while enemies are around, players will have incentive to attack enemy players.

  • When going to an instance, you may choose to start a new one or invade an enemy one. Invading an enemy instance and participating in those tasks gives out rewards and other benefits exclusive to purging enemy invaders.

This probably wasn't done by Turbine first, but this still seems awfully familiar..

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Ard
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Reply #33 on: May 12, 2009, 06:26:40 PM

Yeah, it was done by Mythic before Turbine did it.  It's why Darkness Falls keeps getting referenced.  So to be fair, Turbine stole it from Mythic.
Brogarn
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Reply #34 on: May 13, 2009, 07:09:20 AM

Darkness Falls... the best idea Mythic ever had.
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