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Author Topic: War is everywhere... cut that out  (Read 22879 times)
Tarami
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Posts: 1979


Reply #35 on: April 28, 2009, 02:07:44 PM

They might still have had portal storms in AC2, I can't remember.  I was just commenting that Turbine have a massive advantage in using their own engine, when the servers are crashing in WAR I wonder if Mythic log a support call with a third party.

I thought it was their own engine, hence the window dragging shenanigans, etc?
I don't know to what extent, but it's based on the Gamebryo line of middleware.

As a sidenote, LotRO's engine isn't all their own either. They're atleast using Kynapse for A.I.

- I'm giving you this one for free.
- Nothing's free in the waterworld.
HaemishM
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Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


WWW
Reply #36 on: April 28, 2009, 02:15:16 PM

wow.

Yeah, that about sums it up. Let's not instance ORVR areas into manageable chunks, let's just toss fuckers out of the zone at random (dead guys first) until our server stops shitting itself. I picture their servers as some digital Corky eating cheese until his pants are full then flinging said results all over the room while chanting LALALALALALAL.

Fordel
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Reply #37 on: April 28, 2009, 02:35:54 PM

WAR is just one big development trolling attempt, isn't it?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Hindenburg
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Itto


Reply #38 on: April 28, 2009, 02:56:43 PM

WAR is just one big development trolling attempt success, isn't it?

"Who uses Outlook anyway?  People who get what they deserve, that's who." - Ard.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #39 on: April 28, 2009, 03:25:02 PM

I didn't know about the AI, I seem remember Turbine trying to push the Turbine engine when AC2 was released.  AC2 had a functional basic chat system as part of the engine at release, the broken chat system was a MS one, added later.

http://www.turbine.com/technology.html

Quote
Turbine has developed a state-of-the-art technology platform that enables the rapid creation and efficient operation of world-class online entertainment. The Turbine Engine is at the core of some of the most immersive and compelling online worlds available today. This technology provides an end-to-end solution that integrates the tools required to build rich and immersive online worlds with the infrastructure needed to support large scale operations.

Our scalable client and server architecture supports the rapid pace of change in the online market allowing our worlds to grow and transform over time. The Turbine Engine provides the flexibility to localize and deploy our products around the globe regardless of billing system, content updating method and varied community needs.

The Turbine Engine is an unmatched platform for innovation that provides a significant competitive advantage in the growing market for online entertainment.

http://www.emergent.net/en/Clients--Titles/MMOG/Dark-Age-of-Camelot/

Quote
Mythic Entertainment first licensed Gamebryo in 1999, and has used it in many of their titles, including the upcoming Warhammer Online™, a Massively Multiplayer Online Role-playing Game, one based on Games Workshop's internationally popular Warhammer fantasy world.

Quote from: Rob Denton (Creative Director/Co-founder Mythic)
"It's certainly a wise investment. For the money we invest in Gamebryo the return is 10-fold. We don't have to worry about hiring people, we don't have to worry about integrating code, we don't have to worry about support, we don't have to worry about bugs - Gamebryo provides us with everything."
 
"Also, Emergent provides great support. We rarely actually need support from them because their code is very clean, and they have great actual comments inside the code.

Note, the above quote is about DAoC, it looks like a similar setup for WAR, link.  So yeah, I think when the WAR servers started crashing they probably had to open a support call about it.
Tarami
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Posts: 1979


Reply #40 on: April 28, 2009, 03:28:05 PM

I didn't know about the AI, I seem remember Turbine trying to push the Turbine engine when AC2 was released.  AC2 had a functional basic chat system as part of the engine at release, the broken chat system was a MS one, added later.
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=11661385&linkID=11654889 (sixth from the bottom)

Just FYI. smiley

Edit:
Might be worth noting that WAR is also using Kynapse. awesome, for real That wasn't there last time I checked, which was admittedly long ago.

- I'm giving you this one for free.
- Nothing's free in the waterworld.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #41 on: April 28, 2009, 03:33:16 PM

Been a while since I played LOTRO at high level but I'm surprised, I thought WAR had the blandest mob AI ever.
Hayduke
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Reply #42 on: April 28, 2009, 03:34:46 PM

The time for EA to step in was months ago.  Why would they do it now?  High risk and little reward, plus all the revisionist trolls will absolve Mythic of any wrongdoing and start blaming EA for this entire fiasco.
Ingmar
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Reply #43 on: April 28, 2009, 03:35:07 PM

Ah, ok, so it is both the same engine used for DAOC *and* not proprietary. WOW.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Tarami
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Posts: 1979


Reply #44 on: April 28, 2009, 03:40:28 PM

To be honest, an A.I. middleware needs to be implemented properly aswell as just working well in theory. I imagine that's why LotRO's AI is quite alright and WAR's is atrocious. Someone somewhere in the company still needs to know how to design the A.I., even if they don't have to think about exactly how the algorithms work.

- I'm giving you this one for free.
- Nothing's free in the waterworld.
Chockonuts
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Reply #45 on: April 28, 2009, 03:49:52 PM


 Rest assured when our internal polling indicates a majority with a lack of a desire to play we will pull the plug.

On a joking note, you haven't been drinking the Koolaid over there, have you Way?  Heart

Reason I ask is your above statement sounds... slightly familiar.

Quote from:  Mark Jacobs
When we looked into doing Origins we gathered player feedback about the idea and I was told that it wasn't overwhelmingly something the players supported or seemed to want. Nobody wants to see DAoC abandoned less than I do but right now we need to be rather careful and smart with our resources and make sure we do the right thing. If either current or former DAoC players want Origins, I'd love to see a real groundswell of demand to back that up.

Just out of curiousity, when was your last guild poll?  ACK!






Hindenburg
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Itto


Reply #46 on: April 28, 2009, 03:54:51 PM

The time for EA to step in was months ago.  Why would they do it now?

Oh, I don't know, to try and recoup their losses to some degree? AoC started walking in the right direction after Gaute lost his head, don't see why the same can't happen to WAR.

"Who uses Outlook anyway?  People who get what they deserve, that's who." - Ard.
tmp
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Reply #47 on: April 28, 2009, 04:04:20 PM

Been a while since I played LOTRO at high level but I'm surprised, I thought WAR had the blandest mob AI ever.
It seems to be mainly used for pathfinding and such. It's interesting info, the pathfinding is one part of LotRO that recently tends to fuck up quite often with mobs getting stuck in 'exploit' mode...
Nebu
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Reply #48 on: April 28, 2009, 04:36:53 PM

I thought WAR had the blandest mob AI ever.

You are correct.  It does. 

Mobs attack until they are low on health, then they run.  Ranged mobs stay at range until you break LoS.  That's about the extent of it. 

WAR PvE is terrible... in the DAoC tradition. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Mavor
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Reply #49 on: April 28, 2009, 08:26:31 PM

 Are you guys completely blind?

 This system is "supposedly" only supposed to come into effect when the server is in imminent danger of CRASHING. IMMINENT DANGER.

Read again


IMMINENT DANGER OF CRASHING.

So from all the "Failsauce"-centered postings in this thread, I take it you would rather have the server crash then randomly move dead people out of the battle? Sure, it's not a perfect solution, but this thread feels like simple Mythic bashing. Jump off the bandwagon and think for yourself instead of just saying in every thread "OMG MYTHIC FAILS EVERYTHING THEY DO IS FAILSAUCE".

You might as well just compress this entire thread into one post saying:

"OMG Mythic implimented a solution to server crashing that doesn't affect the balance of my game 99% of the time, but 1% of the time I get moved by THE MAN! Failsauce!"
Nebu
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Reply #50 on: April 28, 2009, 08:49:15 PM

Question for you Mavor:  How many other major mmo's had to create contingency plans for the imminent crashing of their servers? 

Doesn't this strike you the least bit odd or do the rose-colored glasses you're wearing prevent you from taking an objective look at the state of WAR? 

WAR is broken on so many fronts, this thread is just another way to point and laugh.  It's not just f13 that thinks WAR is a failure... their own customers are jumping ship at an alarming rate.  Well... maybe it's only alarming to outsiders. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Azuredream
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Reply #51 on: April 28, 2009, 08:52:51 PM

The problem is the server is always in imminent danger of crashing.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
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Reply #52 on: April 28, 2009, 09:26:16 PM

Are you guys completely blind?

This system is "supposedly" only supposed to come into effect when the server is in imminent danger of CRASHING. IMMINENT DANGER.


I've highlighted the key word in your own statement.

Also: this appears to be an extension to the lvl-based teleporting away and population caps implemented by Mythic for Tier 4 RvR content.

The key point is that Mythic promoted WAR as a PvP title with RvR as its core. They haven't delivered. Randomly teleporting injured characters away is a bottom of the barrel idea (which is probably easy to implement) that actually promotes zerging as a way for victory. If you can get a large enough force you've got a chance that the smaller side (usually the defenders) are going to get teleported away, which will hurt them more (because losing 5 out of 20 hurts a lot more than losing 10 out of 40 due to the loss in absolute numbers). Provided you can do the damage to them, you'll see them teleported away.

It's failsauce because Mythic should have seen this coming. I mean, just imagine if this title had been popular. Then what would have happened?

Modern Angel
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Reply #53 on: April 28, 2009, 09:38:13 PM

Motherfucker, when has a SINGLE FUCKING THING in this game worked as it's supposed to? They can't get people to stop shooting through castle walls. This is the company that dreamed up making new seconds because old seconds didn't work for their lag problems You think this is going to work? Guy, this is more complex than they can handle. It's already fucking up and here you come, King Dumbfuck of Shitstain Mountain, insisting that things will be just peachy. It fucking won't and I'll have to listen to Barnett spewing his hairy asshole horseshit all over the place FOR YET ANOTHER FUCKING MONTH while people like you, who are convinced that Naruto is fine art and that 40K is something more than genre fiction for 12 year olds, will proclaim the turnaround is just around the corner. Gee, swell.
KallDrexx
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Reply #54 on: April 28, 2009, 10:43:09 PM

This system is "supposedly" only supposed to come into effect when the server is in imminent danger of CRASHING. IMMINENT DANGER.

Read again


IMMINENT DANGER OF CRASHING.

I'd love to buy any of these magical algorithms that tell me that any software I write is in imminent danger of crashing.  With those algorithms I could do cool things like, I don't know, FIX THE FUCKING CRASH instead of spending months coding horrible workarounds to just avoid the crash.

The only possible excuse for knowing when the software will crash but not fix the actual crash is if i'ts running out of memory, and even then there are things you can do and your programming effort is better spent fixing the cause.

fuser
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Reply #55 on: April 29, 2009, 12:04:28 AM

So from all the "Failsauce"-centered postings in this thread, I take it you would rather have the server crash then randomly move dead people out of the battle? Sure, it's not a perfect solution, but this thread feels like simple Mythic bashing. Jump off the bandwagon and think for yourself instead of just saying in every thread "OMG MYTHIC FAILS EVERYTHING THEY DO IS FAILSAUCE".

http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=767
Quote
Today, 4/29/09, all North American and Oceanic servers will be brought offline at 9AM EDT for an update. We anticipate all servers to be online by 1PM EDT. This update will improve City Instances and server stability; in addition the Winds of Change feature will be removed from Dark Crag during this downtime.

Looks like they didn't need the solution because everything is fixed!

Clown shoes, seriously...
Chockonuts
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Posts: 68


Reply #56 on: April 29, 2009, 12:33:33 AM

Are you guys completely blind?

 This system is "supposedly" only supposed to come into effect when the server is in imminent danger of CRASHING. IMMINENT DANGER.

Read again


IMMINENT DANGER OF CRASHING.

So from all the "Failsauce"-centered postings in this thread, I take it you would rather have the server crash then randomly move dead people out of the battle? Sure, it's not a perfect solution, but this thread feels like simple Mythic bashing. Jump off the bandwagon and think for yourself instead of just saying in every thread "OMG MYTHIC FAILS EVERYTHING THEY DO IS FAILSAUCE".

You might as well just compress this entire thread into one post saying:

"OMG Mythic implimented a solution to server crashing that doesn't affect the balance of my game 99% of the time, but 1% of the time I get moved by THE MAN! Failsauce!"


Guys, he's not a programmer... But he DID sleep at a Holiday Inn last night. why so serious?   Remember your first MUD?

C'mon.. what's a forum without a little blind fanboism once in a while?  God knows Mythic is running out of them like Germans at Stalingrad.


Arthur_Parker
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Reply #57 on: April 29, 2009, 02:14:35 AM

Sure, it's not a perfect solution

Mythic company motto?
Bismallah
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Reply #58 on: April 29, 2009, 05:35:00 AM

So they are removing Winds of Change from Dark Crag, so who's bright idea was it to come up with that fucking idiocy in the first place? Hasnt nearly every single patch said that canned response "improved server stability"?

I wonder if you can do a pull through all the patch notes and count how many times they "fixed" this...
Shatter
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Reply #59 on: April 29, 2009, 07:08:53 AM

"Question for you Mavor:  How many other major mmo's had to create contingency plans for the imminent crashing of their servers? "

Uhhh most dont do anything and just let them crash
waylander
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Reply #60 on: April 29, 2009, 07:21:27 AM

I am glad they removed that stupid feature.  Dark Crag was in danger of having a massive guild exodus if that shit had stayed in place, and DC is one of the highest population servers left.

I just wonder who the hell over there comes up with these ideas, and why they would put them on live servers before telling anyone.  People were upset when hours of zone locking were destroyed because half of people's warbands began mysteriously vanishing.

If RVR is so dam laggy then Mythic needs to just make RVR a bunch of 48 man instances, and then let the winners of those battles push the victory bar towards a lock. I could live with that a lot better than dealing with a slideshow, or stupid ideas like Winds of Change.

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Arthur_Parker
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Reply #61 on: April 29, 2009, 07:37:22 AM

Winds of Change was something that Climax Studios had planned for their version of Warhammer online years ago, although they intended to use it as a feature of the magic system.  I wonder if Mythic have plans for the other Climax idea of insanity points.
Delmania
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Reply #62 on: April 29, 2009, 07:44:45 AM

"Question for you Mavor:  How many other major mmo's had to create contingency plans for the imminent crashing of their servers? "

Uhhh most dont do anything and just let them crash

That's the point.  Server crashes are generally exceptions, not the norm.  You don't plan for a server crash, and when one occurs, you generally try to fix it and not implement a work around.

UnSub
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Reply #63 on: April 29, 2009, 08:19:26 AM

... and again, this isn't the kind of thing you test on a live server.

Live server testing: what could possibly go wrong?


Nebu
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Posts: 17170


Reply #64 on: April 29, 2009, 08:28:13 AM

This is nearly as brilliant as giving players a faster mount for recruiting new people to the game.  For those that don't know, Mythic gave players... in a pvp game... faster mounts for recruiting new people.  I think it's 70% speed vs 50%. 

It just keeps getting better. 

Quote from: Mythic Staff
Folks,

I understand some people may find giving out slightly faster mounts causes some huge shift in power to those people but the fact is there are very few of them out there. This will cause very little to no advantage for those players overall.

We want to reward those people who work hard infusing the game with new players, which benefits us all who play. In the end, one person having a slightly faster mount versus bringing 6 more people into WAR, it's not a stretch to think that the trade off is worth it.

Is it possible some people will pay that kind of money for something like this? I'm sure it's possible but certainly won't be a majority or even a significant minority.

The bottom line is we want to reward those who do a good job in helping us all; recruiting more players. To the poster's example above; mommy may have bought him the car, but when using our system, he worked his ass off to get it too - it wasn't for given to him for the heck of it.

Also remember, the game is always evolving and it's not out of the question for additional mounts to make their entry into the game in further patches/expansions.

Thanks and locking.
 
Max Morrison
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Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Segoris
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Reply #65 on: April 29, 2009, 08:32:56 AM

King Dumbfuck of Shitstain Mountain

 awesome, for real

What a great title for the fanboi it was aimed at Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

I missed that mount reward, wow. That was obviously well thought out

Bismallah
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Reply #66 on: April 29, 2009, 08:33:21 AM

Hahaha. Awesome.
Shatter
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Reply #67 on: April 29, 2009, 08:41:22 AM

"Question for you Mavor:  How many other major mmo's had to create contingency plans for the imminent crashing of their servers? "

Uhhh most dont do anything and just let them crash

That's the point.  Server crashes are generally exceptions, not the norm.  You don't plan for a server crash, and when one occurs, you generally try to fix it and not implement a work around.

MMO's Ive played that have server issues had them for a period of time, they didnt just randomly crash.  But I do agree that this "fix" is like pissing on a forest fire, its both stupid and useless. 
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Reply #68 on: April 29, 2009, 09:00:32 AM

Having looked at the Recruit-A-Friend deal, you get 30 free days of play time for each new player you recruit. You need to recruit six players to get the mount. The player has to start a trial, then buy a full version of the game. Looks like somewhere around $40 a copy, so that would be $240, minus $90 (6 x $15) for the play time you'd get for your main account, so $150 for a 70% speed mount.

... unless (it seems) you went to somewhere like Amazon where dealers appear to be selling new copies cheap. 6 copies plus shipping at the cheap end comes in at $84, so your main would actually be $6 better off over six months (those 30 days per recruited player going to your main account, the 6 x $15 = $90 you'd otherwise pay for those six months) plus get the faster mount. Seems like a good deal for hardcore PvPers to go through that hassle.

Or am I wrong?


Azuredream
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Reply #69 on: April 29, 2009, 09:04:36 AM

If you can recruit six people to play this game I'd say that mount is pretty well-deserved and you should also consider a career as a salesman.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
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