Aion (Open Beta, Launch Day Info too!)

[Draegan]

Abyss Point loss is another penalty.

[waylander]

I don't care about the PVP death penalty, but the PVE one is ridiculous. Sure you can buy some of it back, but you also permanently lose some xp each time you die as well.

[Threash]

I don't really see a problem with current leveling speed.  Its been exactly one month and i'm 34, this seems to be about average for my guild for those who didn't switch chars.  If i can make it to 50 at around the three month mark that would be faster than my first char in most other games.  Increasing the leveling speed is not going to make the game feel any less grindy because it has nothing to do with that, it IS a grindy game and it would take a complete redesign to change that.  Lowering the time people spend leveling by 10-15% isn't going to make anyone happier about playnig a grindy game.

[Nebu]

Lowering the time people spend leveling by 10-15% isn't going to make anyone happier about playnig a grindy game.

I disagree.  Reducing the grind will help IF AND ONLY IF the endgame pvp is worth the grind.  Reducing the grind allows faster entry into teh fun and allows players to experience it with alts sooner.

[waylander]

I disagree.  Reducing the grind will help IF AND ONLY IF the endgame pvp is worth the grind.  Reducing the grind allows faster entry into teh fun and allows players to experience it with alts sooner.

I've got to say that right now the end game RVR isn't any better than AOC or War's from a performance or rewards perspective. It is more tactical though and that makes it more fun, provided you don't lock up and crash 10x.  But at the end of the day all you get is an email with 2 to 10k Kinah, and a thanks for your participation.  At least in Warhammer you got renown for capturing keeps, and in AION I could care less about a 10k kinah reward.

[DLRiley]

hmm so the pvp is fun but your not getting spiked helmets for winning? I think that's a problem with you and not the system. Unless by fun you mean blowing up the randoms in a timely fashion. cause that gets old...

[Threash]

The pvp is fun, rewards for fortress takes seem a little off.

[Gunzwei]

If they don't fix those things in short order, then I see AION USA taking a similar path that Warhammer and AOC had with a good initial launch while bleeding subs over the first six months. All three games basically cater to the same population, and that population has twice said that RVR/Siege games can't have a bad grind to level, RVR/Sieges need to have good performance, and the PVP end game needs to feel rewarding.

When you run out of quests as you get higher in levels the thought of grinding mobs that give 17k exp isn't too appealing when you need 15, 25, etc MILLION to level.

They really should have moved the XP bonus of the abyss to the PVE zones, and made the abyss mobs/goals give additional PVP related rewards (AP, Gear, Medals). PVE instances/mobs could have their loot drop rates raised from 3-5% (which is what I'm guessing they're at) to 10-15%. Abyss mobs for example could drop PVP itemized greens but restrict blues/golds to higher end PVP objectives.

I'd probably also suggest experimenting with making every abyss island have some flippable objective and all the abyss mobs turned into elites. This would ideally promote grouping right off the bat in the abyss and encourage group skirmishes. All these changes are what I consider "westernizing" the game but YMMV.

Right now as someone on AIONsource pointed out Aion is not all that different than most cookie-cutter Asian PVP mmo's. It just has an artistic overhaul that those games don't.

[caladein]

Right now as someone on AIONsource pointed out Aion is not all that different than most cookie-cutter Asian PVP mmo's. It just have an artistic overhaul that those games don't.

All the issues (and good stuff to be honest) you guys are describing are the same ones I had with Lineage II five+ years ago.

In that time: it still looks good relative to its competitors, they took out items-dropping-when-you-die, and you can fly... sometimes.  Progress!?

[Lantyssa]

The industry has to grind to reach the level where they can craft a Good Game.

[Falconeer]

Fortress taking grants access to a specific Fortress Dungeon. Assuming you are in the winning guild.

[Ard]

Fortress taking grants access to a specific Fortress Dungeon. Assuming you are in the winning guild.

Taking the fort opens it up to your whole side, not just the guild that did it.

[01101010]

The industry has to grind to reach the level where they can craft a Good Game.

Must be of the Eastern grind variety... 

[Falconeer]

Fortress taking grants access to a specific Fortress Dungeon. Assuming you are in the winning guild.

Taking the fort opens it up to your whole side, not just the guild that did it.

Well, there you go. That is the reward for fortress taking, other than the money, the fun, the AP and the medals. I thought it was guild only, and it was a cool reward but admittedly too limited. If it's faction-wide, then I can't see anything wrong with it.

[ghost]

While obviously well done, this game makes me hate MMOs even more.  Shelving this one also.

[Gorky]

Just spent 2 hours grinding mobs to hit 24 on my ranger, then made 150 healing potions which have a base difficulty of 105, went from 108 to 115 

Quit the game, and unsubscribed.

Wish I had spent my money on Fallen Earth instead.

The three thing main things which made me quit? The Bots, The Grind, The Boring World.

[Falconeer]

24 is one level short of PvP, which starts at 25. Why did you get Aion in the first place, if not for PvP?

[Ashamanchill]

Because when this game stops feeling like fun, and the grind becomes clear, even one more level seems unattainable. I completely agree with the folks saying they should speed levelling up, and by a huge margin. It may not change the nature of the game being grindy, but it would alter the perception of it being grindy, which is what matters.

[Venkman]

Exactly. Grind for fun? What year is it? I'm not going to grind for diku PvP with Borderlands coming next week and MW2 right around the corner. I figured if I wasn't enjoying PvP by the time the $10 upgrade offer expired, I wasn't going to renew anyway. There simply isn't enough omgawesome that won't be trumped by games specifically designed to do fewer things better.

They really should have moved the XP bonus of the abyss to the PVE zones, and made the abyss mobs/goals give additional PVP related rewards (AP, Gear, Medals). PVE instances/mobs could have their loot drop rates raised from 3-5% (which is what I'm guessing they're at) to 10-15%. Abyss mobs for example could drop PVP itemized greens but restrict blues/golds to higher end PVP objectives.

No. Because then it's even more like WoW, which makes how it's not like WoW all the more glaring to those who merely get chased back to WoW as a result. This game needs to: start PvP right away in bracketed level-appropriate ways; and, b) enable flying everywhere one can PvP.

[ghost]

24 is one level short of PvP, which starts at 25. Why did you get Aion in the first place, if not for PvP?

This begs the question:  if this game is for PvP why doesn't it start at level 1?  I don't want to play for the 10-12 hours needed to get to level 25 just to PvP.

[DLRiley]

By level 25 you have proven that your good enough to enjoy this games awesome pvp! Can't let the scrubs try from day one because their all 13 and will kick and scream about going back to WoW. Great business model.

[Hoax]

All the issues (and good stuff to be honest) you guys are describing are the same ones I had with Lineage II five+ years ago.

In that time: it still looks good relative to its competitors, they took out items-dropping-when-you-die, and you can fly... sometimes.  Progress!?

Yeah no shit.

Wish I had spent my money on Fallen Earth instead.

I do too man, I do too.

[Falconeer]

I think PvP should start at level 1. Definitely. You should all know me by now, I hate safezones AND I am not a wolf. I hated Warhammer battlegrounds but I loved Age of Conan lev 5 undertunnels. Yes, PvP should start at level 1. Above, I was only asking if the guy was tricked into believing Aion was a PvE game, cause quitting at 24 when the main reason of the game is just round the corner felt depressing. Even though I honestly see his points.

That said, yes leveling should be faster, this has been said countless times now. And on that note, please all have a laugh:

From aiononline.com

Level 50? Check!
10-21-09 23:31:22views 2419
How fast players decide to level their characters is  a very personal thing. Some prefer to take it slow, to log in once in a while, soak up the world, and read every storyline there is from beginning to end. Others rely on fervent research, practice, and teamwork to reach the highest level not only quickly, but first.
 
On October 7, 2009 at 11:32 p.m. BST (more), Drno and Almisaela were the first two players to reach level 50. Both are members of the known “For the Harmony” Legion. You read it right—the first two! They happened to both reach it at the exact same time!
 
Amboss quickly put on his Sherlock Holmes deerstalker hat and got hold of them for an interview.
 
Amboss: Congratulations to the two of you! We verified that you two definitely were the first level 50 characters on the Western Aion servers. How are you doing? Are you exhausted? Some people are surprised that you managed to get to level 50 as quickly as you did. What is your secret?
 
Drno: The last couple levels were strenuous, but we are not exhausted. We are just happy about reaching level 50. Our “secret.” if you want to call it that, is just extensive knowledge of Aion and teamwork. The teamwork especially helped us over a couple dry spells. We also had the advantage of playing as a close combat/healer Chanter and ranged damage-dealing Ranger. This played a big role when fighting elite monsters. In our oinion, it is the most effective way to level quickly.
 
Almisaela: Honestly, the evening we reached level 50, I was a bit exhausted and would not have wanted to fight through another level. The mental stress of doing similar actions over many hours is pretty heavy.
 
Amboss: Was it more difficult to play the high-level content since there are not many players who could keep up with you guys? Were you able to play in groups?
 
Drno: Certainly we couldn’t experience everything during our leveling, but overall we had a rather powerful consistent group of four people until the mid 40s that we did almost everything with except the world bosses.
 
Almisaela: We played from level 1 through about level 46 in one existing group, and we did almost everything together. We planned from the beginning to play together, and because of this, we could do almost every campaign quest with them.
 
Amboss: Did you do any instances, raids, or similar quests, and were you able to follow the campaign’s storyline?
 
Drno: We did take our time to play through the campaign since there were always very good rewards from campaign quests. We were able to follow the story pretty well. The same is true for the instances. Raids were really not possible. The level difference between our Legion members and us was just too big.
 
Almisaela: We visited the instance Firetemple with our group of four very often and managed to get a unique weapon. We also went on a raid in Sulfur Fortress and tried out a couple outdoor raid bosses and won. About the Aion lore—I have to admit, I read every single quest, You must take the time to read it, and the campaign history is very exciting and much more interesting than most other MMORPG’s. The reason is probably because of the excellent cut scenes.
 
Amboss: What is next on your list? Now that you have conquered maximum level, do you have new goals, or do you want to just lean back and relax?
 
Drno: We certainly have to reduce the pace, but we plan to help our other Legion members with leveling up in any way we can so we can enjoy the endgame content together, especially the Abyss group PvP, Dark Poeta, Dreadgeon, and the Theobomos Secret Laboratory.

Almisaela: Our main goal is to support our Legion members with quests, leveling, and crafting skills; to send some Asmodians home; and to free Dark Poeta from the Balaur as soon as possible.

Amboss: What can you tell us about yourselves?
 
Drno: I am 26 years old, and I am finishing my degree in actuarial math, which is why I had plenty of time to invest in Aion. Aside from my computer hobby, I am a passionate body-builder, a pastime that provides its own rewards J.

Almisaela: I am Almi. I am 25 years old. I am studying nutrition science at the university in Wien, and I am a proud Austrian.

If anybody needs any tips or advice how to level quickly or needs help with something else, just contact Almisaela or Dorno at Votan Elyos-Page, or visit www.for-the-harmony.com to send a forum PM to Dorno or Amisael. We are really not Chinese bots, just very normal nice people.

[Koyasha]

I think PvP should start at level 1 - when devs in general figure out that limiting a character to 1-2 abilities and autoattack at low level is a dumbass thing to do, period.  Give me 5-10 of my abilities right off the bat and then let me pvp with them and that's great, but don't give me 1 or 2 abilities and tell me to go fight another player.

Frankly?  Don't give me just 1-2 abilities, period, for PvE or PvP.  What the hell makes this seem like a good idea?  Just to make people thankful that they finally reached Level X where they actually get enough abilities to not completely suck?

[01101010]

This begs the question:  if this game is for PvP why doesn't it start at level 1?  I don't want to play for the 10-12 hours needed to get to level 25 just to PvP.

If you actually get to 25, you only end up starting out as fodder anyway. Hit 25, get to the Abyss, get curb stomped by opposition sitting with 5-7 levels on you. Respawn and grind levels hoping for revenge only to be dosed with the cold reality that it will be a week before you attain the level your opponent is at currently (which means they will, barring a break, still be 5-7 levels above you). Hence the reason PvP based games should have a low leveling curve so people can reach the peak as to cut out the level difference. When everyone is the same level, then it becomes a game - until then its just a matter of who is the bigger fish. Unfortunately this game here draws that part out way too long. Its kinda like being catholic... take you punishment now and like it because the promise of heaven is somewhere out there... 

[Falconeer]

If you actually get to 25, you only end up starting out as fodder anyway. Hit 25, get to the Abyss, get curb stomped by opposition sitting with 5-7 levels on you. Respawn and grind levels hoping for revenge

That's inaccurate, or simply playing Aion wrong. Yes, it sucks that this game requires a Guild and some social skills so badly. But that's the case with almost any open world PvP game, isn't it?

Simply put, being the attacker instead of the defender pays off in Aion, so get a full group of lev 25 friends (better than a PUG with inept morons) and go rip some enemy asses in Abyss, go out there and actively look for fights, chase opponents in their faction zones. Eventually put up a kisk somewhere, keep moving and know your shit. It works. You'll keep dying but the killcount will go up faster, and you'll rack up APs and, if PvP is your thing, fun.
If on the other hand you are sitting on your bottom grinding mobs (grouped or not doesn't change much) and you get jumped and keep dying, it's not a matter of levels it's just playing the Abyss wrong.

[Gunzwei]

If you actually get to 25, you only end up starting out as fodder anyway. Hit 25, get to the Abyss, get curb stomped by opposition sitting with 5-7 levels on you. Respawn and grind levels hoping for revenge

That's inaccurate, or simply playing Aion wrong. Yes, it sucks that this game requires a Guild and some social skills so badly. But that's the case with almost any open world PvP game, isn't it?

Simply put, being the attacker instead of the defender pays off in Aion, so get a full group of lev 25 friends (better than a PUG with inept morons) and go rip some enemy asses in Abyss, go out there and actively look for fights, chase opponents in their faction zones.

I found this pretty close to what it was like when the lower abyss was mostly inhabited with 25+ but on my server it got fairly common to see people in their 30's roaming the lower abyss. Upper Abyss was just all over the place with levels ranging from 28-40's of various group sizes. I've also noticed it really depends on how active your side is in open-abyss-pvp when fortress sieges aren't happening (I'm sure it varies from server to server).

[Chimpy]

God this closing the application anytime there is a communication error with the servers is stupid.

"Can't connect to authorization server" at login screen? WELCOME TO THE WINDOWS DESKTOP AND 4 MORE MINUTES OF WAITING FOR THE LOGIN SCREEN TO LOAD.

All I wanted to do was check my auctions/put more up (yay for 10 auction limit) before I left for work. :/

[tmp]

All I wanted to do was check my auctions/put more up (yay for 10 auction limit) before I left for work. :/

You can check the auctions from the game homepage if you login there. Won't help with adding more obviously but just being able to check them is an excellent feature.

[Shatter]

This begs the question:  if this game is for PvP why doesn't it start at level 1?  I don't want to play for the 10-12 hours needed to get to level 25 just to PvP.

If you actually get to 25, you only end up starting out as fodder anyway. Hit 25, get to the Abyss, get curb stomped by opposition sitting with 5-7 levels on you. Respawn and grind levels hoping for revenge only to be dosed with the cold reality that it will be a week before you attain the level your opponent is at currently (which means they will, barring a break, still be 5-7 levels above you). Hence the reason PvP based games should have a low leveling curve so people can reach the peak as to cut out the level difference. When everyone is the same level, then it becomes a game - until then its just a matter of who is the bigger fish. Unfortunately this game here draws that part out way too long. Its kinda like being catholic... take you punishment now and like it because the promise of heaven is somewhere out there... 

You know there are many places to go into the Abyss at any level where you can farm with minimal ganking right?  I suggest you spend time looking around more.  Most enemy players will go to the congested areas to gank, they dont go to the lesser populated spots.  I spent 3 hours last night farming a spot and saw 1 enemy the whole time and he didnt bother to attack me.  Im level 38 now and since level 25 I have found at least 5 spots that were decent grinding areas with minimal interruption but I spent time looking around to find them

[Draegan]

If you actually get to 25, you only end up starting out as fodder anyway. Hit 25, get to the Abyss, get curb stomped by opposition sitting with 5-7 levels on you. Respawn and grind levels hoping for revenge

That's inaccurate, or simply playing Aion wrong. Yes, it sucks that this game requires a Guild and some social skills so badly. But that's the case with almost any open world PvP game, isn't it?

Simply put, being the attacker instead of the defender pays off in Aion, so get a full group of lev 25 friends (better than a PUG with inept morons) and go rip some enemy asses in Abyss, go out there and actively look for fights, chase opponents in their faction zones. Eventually put up a kisk somewhere, keep moving and know your shit. It works. You'll keep dying but the killcount will go up faster, and you'll rack up APs and, if PvP is your thing, fun.
If on the other hand you are sitting on your bottom grinding mobs (grouped or not doesn't change much) and you get jumped and keep dying, it's not a matter of levels it's just playing the Abyss wrong.

Dude, levels mean a big thing in this game with PVP.  A mere 5 levels makes you a god vs a host of other players.  It's really no competition.  Sure getting the jump is big, but it's still within limits.

[Falconeer]

You can't see your enemy level, but if you jump them on the lev27 mob areas, you can easily guess what they are doing there. If you attack, you can choose the battlefield. That gave us me and my friends many fun nights. YMMV, as usual.

[Ashamanchill]

If you actually get to 25, you only end up starting out as fodder anyway. Hit 25, get to the Abyss, get curb stomped by opposition sitting with 5-7 levels on you. Respawn and grind levels hoping for revenge

That's inaccurate, or simply playing Aion wrong. Yes, it sucks that this game requires a Guild and some social skills so badly. But that's the case with almost any open world PvP game, isn't it?

Simply put, being the attacker instead of the defender pays off in Aion, so get a full group of lev 25 friends (better than a PUG with inept morons) and go rip some enemy asses in Abyss, go out there and actively look for fights, chase opponents in their faction zones. Eventually put up a kisk somewhere, keep moving and know your shit. It works. You'll keep dying but the killcount will go up faster, and you'll rack up APs and, if PvP is your thing, fun.
If on the other hand you are sitting on your bottom grinding mobs (grouped or not doesn't change much) and you get jumped and keep dying, it's not a matter of levels it's just playing the Abyss wrong.

Dude, levels mean a big thing in this game with PVP.  A mere 5 levels makes you a god vs a host of other players.  It's really no competition.  Sure getting the jump is big, but it's still within limits.

Quoted for fucking truth.

It's hitting them that is the goddamn problem. Unlike other people, I can stomach the levels in a pvp game, but for fucks sake don't jam the nuisance of hit rating into it. In all likelyhood, theyre already going to walk all over us by virtue of their greater hp, dps, def et al, do does the game have to make it that much more frustrating by not letting me even touch them?

This is an area where they could have learned from AoC, and not WoW. If I recall, in the former you could actually hit your opponent if they were a higher level. You might not do much, but at least the game wouldn't rub your face in what a noob piece of shit you were.

[Nebu]

These game mechanics all seem to encourage the strong to prey on the weak.  This, in and of itself, is terrible pvp design. 

[Venkman]

This.

Also, anyone know if there's a soft-cap on abilities working such that the level disparity doesn't matter so much? Like, after level 35, everyone has an equal chance to hit with the difference being he power of that hit or something?