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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Warhammer Online (Moderator: tazelbain)  |  Topic: Paul Barnett speaks on being "Dazed and Confused" 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Paul Barnett speaks on being "Dazed and Confused"  (Read 164628 times)
tkinnun0
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Reply #245 on: May 21, 2009, 06:57:37 AM

Because defeating Thorzaniloch, fire elemental lord #1179436, is a lot more immersive and entertaining than being the 1179436th group to defeat Fire Lord Rochnar.

I was going to post that, but let's make it more concrete with real data from http://www.worldoflogs.com/stats/ulduar/:

Congratulations, you just beat Yogg-Saron the 1039th!

or

Too bad, you just wiped to Yogg-Saron the 38077th!

I can just taste the immersion.
tmp
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POW! Right in the Kisser!


Reply #246 on: May 21, 2009, 08:33:25 AM

I can just taste the immersion.
Mace the 1039th is just like Mace the 1038th and the other 1037 that came before, amirite?

(they're of the same item level. And ultimately they work in the same way. But quite amazing what changes to name, item mesh/skin and stats can do)
tkinnun0
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Reply #247 on: May 21, 2009, 08:52:31 AM

Mace the 1039th is just like Mace the 1038th and the other 1037 that came before, amirite?

Those don't drop from the same boss. What you are looking for is Adamant Mallet of <Random enchantment>. There's 23 different flavors!
tmp
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POW! Right in the Kisser!


Reply #248 on: May 21, 2009, 09:09:16 AM

Those don't drop from the same boss.
So?

Mind you though, i do buy the argument from earlier in this thread, that players go into these games with mindset/preference that it should provide them with as much predictability as possible. I.e. killing the same boss 1039 times in choreographed dance figured out through number of wipes ... is ultimately preferred over never knowing 100% how the boss will behave. No matter how much the same players will bitch about boredom of always getting the same boss fight, in their spare time.
Ashamanchill
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Reply #249 on: May 21, 2009, 05:51:52 PM

Because defeating Thorzaniloch, fire elemental lord #1179436, is a lot more immersive and entertaining than being the 1179436th group to defeat Fire Lord Rochnar.

I was going to post that, but let's make it more concrete with real data from http://www.worldoflogs.com/stats/ulduar/:

Congratulations, you just beat Yogg-Saron the 1039th!

or

Too bad, you just wiped to Yogg-Saron the 38077th!

I can just taste the immersion.

You know what the funny thing about this thread is?  No one is playing Warhammer enough to have A Yogg-Saron the 38077th.  It seems to me, we beat the king, well that's it.  End game done.

A poster signed by Richard Garriot, Brad McQuaid, Marc Jacobs and SmerricK Dart.  Of course it would arrive a couple years late, missing letters and a picture but it would be epic none the less. -Tmon
waylander
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Reply #250 on: May 24, 2009, 07:25:32 PM


You know what the funny thing about this thread is?  No one is playing Warhammer enough to have A Yogg-Saron the 38077th.  It seems to me, we beat the king, well that's it.  End game done.

Oddly enough, AION threads are popping up all across the warhammer fan site forums. It might be an Asian MMO, but more and more people are talking about it because it supposedly gives you the Warhammer RVR experience without the lag. 

I don't have time to start over in a new MMO right now, but if everything people are saying about AION is true then its a sleeper that could steal away a lot of Mythic's more moderate and hardcore players who are fed up with them.  Patch 1.3 looks to be another disaster, class balance will be out of whack still, and whoever the dominant realm is on each server will be living in Land of the Dead while the other side sits on their butts.

Mythic's approach has been like the old SOE "the players are never right" of pre-WoW days, and I don't think it can overhaul itself fast enough or expand to new territories fast enough to stay above 300k.  The 1.3 patch with Land of the Dead is make or break for a lot of players it seems.

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WindupAtheist
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Reply #251 on: May 25, 2009, 09:13:41 AM

Mind you though, i do buy the argument from earlier in this thread, that players go into these games with mindset/preference that it should provide them with as much predictability as possible. I.e. killing the same boss 1039 times in choreographed dance figured out through number of wipes ... is ultimately preferred over never knowing 100% how the boss will behave. No matter how much the same players will bitch about boredom of always getting the same boss fight, in their spare time.

What exactly establishes this? Has any serious game really tried adding any randomness? I mean yeah, the boss has to have set abilities, but I don't know why everything should have to be so scripted that a group of bots could run it with utter clockwork precision and certainty.

I don't want Diablo to become Eiablo and then Fiablo on subsequent runs, but occasionally stumbling over a Puke Grumble the Unholy is fun.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
fuser
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Reply #252 on: May 25, 2009, 09:27:13 AM

http://www.mmogamer.com/05/24/2009/paul-barnett-speaks-part-two

More talking, wish the feet were put to the fire about why the heck scenarios were even the best place to get xp.


Nebu
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Reply #253 on: May 25, 2009, 09:53:24 AM

http://www.mmogamer.com/05/24/2009/paul-barnett-speaks-part-two

More talking, wish the feet were put to the fire about why the heck scenarios were even the best place to get xp.

Head-in-sand.

All this interview did was confirm just how disconnected the devs are from the playerbase. 

They think that they fixed the problems with the system.  They should play the game for a while and see hwo long it keeps them entertained.  I bet that not a single person at Mythic would stay with the game beyond two weeks. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
waylander
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Reply #254 on: May 25, 2009, 06:31:34 PM

http://www.mmogamer.com/05/24/2009/paul-barnett-speaks-part-two

More talking, wish the feet were put to the fire about why the heck scenarios were even the best place to get xp.




What is sad is that people still manually queue those specific scenarios that were mentioned, and they are still good exp per hour if you are on a server with decent population. The problem with PQ's are that there are too many per zone, and too many of them require balanced premade groups to complete for the best exp yield per hour.  The ones that require 2-3 players give crappy loot, bad exp, and take too long to do so they yield terrible exp per hour.

The problem with War is that T4 is their end game, and they just make you put up with too much crap and too much of a wait to get there. Then when you do get there you have a massive gear grind facing you, and in the meantime you get facerolled because the base loot that is accessible in that tier is not competitive at all.  Most players wonder why they bothered to get to T4, and then quit the game in disgust.

I think games can cater to the Hardcore and the Casuals and be successful.  Guild Wars did it, WoW did it, CoH did it, but too many other people design their games to where you have to spend a minimum of a 3-4 hour time investment to notice any significant progress.  If a game is fun people will play it a long time, but increasingly less of the audience can sit there for 3-4 hours in one sitting.  IMHO games should be developed to where you can see noticeable improvement with an hour's worth of play. 

But when you design a game where a level 50 always beats a level 49, then people are going to grind their asses off to get level 50.  The grind and the minimum time investment to notice improvement , 3 to 4 hours per sitting,  is what turns off most US players IMHO.

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Arthur_Parker
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Reply #255 on: May 26, 2009, 02:19:40 AM

http://www.mmogamer.com/05/05/2008/paul-barnett-hates-you-the-warhammer-online-conference-call/3

Quote from: Paul Barnett
My boy, Callum, he’s dead clever. He’s a finger ninja, which means that when he plays his little computer games, all he does is annihilate his dad, relentlessly, and laughs, and won’t ever let me live it down. As a result I have a complete aversion to doing player vs. player. I don’t want to do it. And I don’t want to do it because my ten year old boy will just kill me, a lot.

What I like doing is player vs. environment. I like going off and being heroic on my own, and not having ten year old kids pummel me into the dirt. So, what I like about our game, is that when I go off to do that I’m left alone, I have a complete game experience. I am one of the malcontents who just wants to do PvE on my own and wants to be left alone.

I can level all the way through the game, I can kill giants, I can take on dragons, I can help with the war effort, I can help with the siege equipment, and then when I start burning the city to the ground, I can wander over and I can go, “You know what? I’m going to go into the city and do all sorts of crazy quests, and be very happy killing, murdering, and pillaging, on my own without having to worry about anyone else. I’m really happy with the PvE experience because it means I don’t have to fight anyone else.

Whereas my boy hasn’t done any PvE at all, all he does is kill other people, all day, forever, and he’s deliriously happy, too, because he doesn’t have to read any quest text.

Didn't see that quoted before.
Tannhauser
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Reply #256 on: May 26, 2009, 03:09:03 AM

I don't have a problem with WAR wanting to integrate PVE and RVR, I have a problem with their execution.


Shatter
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Reply #257 on: May 26, 2009, 04:43:56 AM

http://www.mmogamer.com/05/24/2009/paul-barnett-speaks-part-two

More talking, wish the feet were put to the fire about why the heck scenarios were even the best place to get xp.




The problem with War is that T4 is their end game, and they just make you put up with too much crap and too much of a wait to get there. Then when you do get there you have a massive gear grind facing you, and in the meantime you get facerolled because the base loot that is accessible in that tier is not competitive at all.  Most players wonder why they bothered to get to T4, and then quit the game in disgust.



There is no gear grind anymore, at least not with Annihilator and Conq.  Conq gear is out there now like greens practically.  Invader and up is where the well dries up
Modern Angel
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Reply #258 on: May 26, 2009, 08:51:17 AM

I don't have a problem with WAR wanting to integrate PVE and RVR, I have a problem with their execution.




I don't think anyone does. But the execution may be partially reliant on the fact that their creative director has a complete aversion to the cornerstone of the game. Fucking amazing.
waylander
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Reply #259 on: May 26, 2009, 09:18:49 AM

I don't think anyone does. But the execution may be partially reliant on the fact that their creative director has a complete aversion to the cornerstone of the game. Fucking amazing.

Its sort of like hiring a postal clerk for a rocket scientist's job eh?

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Modern Angel
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Reply #260 on: May 26, 2009, 09:24:36 AM

I'm thinking more hiring a vegetarian to be head chef at a steakhouse.

Which begs the question: why the fuck didn't you make WHFRP the MMO then? Because maybe that would've been good... not 1mil boxes sold at release good but the quality naturally goes up when it's not something you hate. So maybe you sell 500k at the start and keep 400k or something. Whatever. I always think this chucklefuck can't say anything to make my jaw drop but then he does. He is the doughy gift that keeps on giving.
Special J
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Reply #261 on: May 26, 2009, 11:02:38 AM

I'm thinking more hiring a vegetarian to be head chef at a steakhouse.

Which begs the question: why the fuck didn't you make WHFRP the MMO then? Because maybe that would've been good... not 1mil boxes sold at release good but the quality naturally goes up when it's not something you hate. So maybe you sell 500k at the start and keep 400k or something. Whatever. I always think this chucklefuck can't say anything to make my jaw drop but then he does. He is the doughy gift that keeps on giving.

I think he puts more thought into saying something that he thinks is clever rather than what he's actually saying.

Ha! Ha! I'm edgy! I don't like any of you! That makes me so cool everyone invites me to groups.
Ingmar
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Reply #262 on: May 26, 2009, 02:43:34 PM

What does "Creative Director" even mean? Is it more "Lore and Story and Look" or more "Game Systems Crunchy Rules Stuff"?

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Fordel
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Reply #263 on: May 26, 2009, 04:29:59 PM

I was always under the impression it was more towards the Lore/Story/Theme side of things.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Modern Angel
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Reply #264 on: May 26, 2009, 05:41:31 PM

It's probably a little more than the handwavey type stuff. Not much crunch but I imagine he has a ton of say in how things unfold, quest approval, PQ design, etc. So while he's probably not spreadsheeting all day I imagine his job bleeds over into that sort of thing, albeit indirectly.
UnSub
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WWW
Reply #265 on: May 26, 2009, 06:53:15 PM

I don't have a problem with WAR wanting to integrate PVE and RVR, I have a problem with their execution.


I don't think anyone does. But the execution may be partially reliant on the fact that their creative director has a complete aversion to the cornerstone of the game. Fucking amazing.

Plus his disinterest in Order is also evident. He's a Greenskin man.

But I think he's suffering the Jade Raymond Effect: he's probably not responsible for a lot of the issues with the title, but since he is its most visible face, he cops the flak.

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Reply #266 on: May 27, 2009, 12:16:19 AM

Perhaps if he'd shut the fuck up and stop being a huge cockmunch. ...that reminds me, is Jacobs still being a fucking forum troll's wet dream? Do they have their magical special forums yet?


http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Nebu
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Reply #267 on: May 27, 2009, 05:17:40 AM

Do they have their magical special forums yet?

They do.  It's straight out of the Stalin era.  As soon as someone posts a negative comment about the game, the thread is locked and removed with an unmatched efficiency.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Special J
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Reply #268 on: May 27, 2009, 05:38:28 AM

But I think he's suffering the Jade Raymond Effect: he's probably not responsible for a lot of the issues with the title, but since he is its most visible face, he cops the flak.

Perhaps. But he just keeps sticking his chin out for more.
Segoris
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Reply #269 on: May 27, 2009, 06:31:24 AM

Do they have their magical special forums yet?

They do.  It's straight out of the Stalin era.  As soon as someone posts a negative comment about the game, the thread is locked and removed with an unmatched efficiency.

Oh, that's great, they reopened the beta forums!  Ohhhhh, I see.
Delmania
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Reply #270 on: May 27, 2009, 07:09:53 AM

I'm thinking more hiring a vegetarian to be head chef at a steakhouse.

I think he puts more thought into saying something that he thinks is clever rather than what he's actually saying.

Ha! Ha! I'm edgy! I don't like any of you! That makes me so cool everyone invites me to groups.

Given those exact quotes, it's more the opposite: putting a steakhouse chef in charge of a vegetarian restaurant.  His attempts to come off edgy and against the grain are mollified because the whole solo PvE concept is one of WoW is so wildly popular.  His view is the mainstream, and yet, he's tasked to work on a niche game.   It's ridiculous.  I get the sense that Paul is very unhappy with the direction of Warhammer and is not satisfied at all working for Mythic, and these interviews and videos are veiled attempts to lash out at both Mythic and the playerbase.  I think Mythic needs to do itself a favor and reevaluate Paul's work and the effect he's had on the companies image.

Lantyssa
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Reply #271 on: May 27, 2009, 07:51:14 AM

Given the few video blogs of his I've seen which had nothing to do with his work, I'd say he's just an idiot.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Simond
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Reply #272 on: May 27, 2009, 12:51:44 PM


You know what the funny thing about this thread is?  No one is playing Warhammer enough to have A Yogg-Saron the 38077th.  It seems to me, we beat the king, well that's it.  End game done.

Oddly enough, AION threads are popping up all across the warhammer fan site forums. It might be an Asian MMO, but more and more people are talking about it because it supposedly gives you the Warhammer RVR experience without the lag. 
No, it's popping up on the WAR sites for the same reason that Warhammer popped up on the Age of Conan site, the same reason AoC popped up on the Vanguard site - it's a hell of a lot easier to hype up "The Next Big Thing" for a certain type of MMO player than to evaluate everything out there and say "Well, game X does most of what I'm looking for without being offensively bad so I'll go play that".

( And also because 'game X' is typically WoW but most of them quit WoW decrying how much Blizzard sux and how Vanguard AoC WAR Aion is gonna kill it, so going back to WoW would mean admitting they were wrong and making a good MMOG is actually quite difficult after all. )

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Soln
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the opportunity for evil is just delicious


Reply #273 on: May 27, 2009, 01:03:45 PM

you guys are crazy to feel sympathy for Mr.Paul in any way
Tannhauser
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Reply #274 on: May 27, 2009, 02:34:19 PM

I agree.  They took a great IP and drove it into the ground. 
Delmania
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Reply #275 on: May 27, 2009, 05:15:18 PM

Who's sympathizing with Paul?  He's out of his element, and his videos make him look like an asshat.   He needs to get out or shut up and actually do some work. 

fuser
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Reply #276 on: May 27, 2009, 06:18:26 PM

Mythic's approach has been like the old SOE "the players are never right" of pre-WoW days, and I don't think it can overhaul itself fast enough or expand to new territories fast enough to stay above 300k. 

Paul Barnett vblog Taiwan WAR launch

Altho from poking around their site they allow full download of the client..

The 9.68gb full install Today:674  Week:3427  Total:38579
Torrent: 35 seeds, 889 peers (total in the swarm)
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 06:32:46 PM by fuser »
Triforcer
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Reply #277 on: May 27, 2009, 10:43:15 PM

I think Mr. Barnett should make Youtube videos often, provided they are of him selling cigarettes at the Greyhound station.  I'd watch that in a heartbeat. 

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Chockonuts
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Reply #278 on: May 28, 2009, 12:19:12 AM

Paul Barnett: What? You think everything is horrible?


The MMO Gamer: Well, not everything, but I can find cause to gripe about many things.

Take your game, for example.

Paul Barnett: Right?


The MMO Gamer: One of the reasons for that burnout I mentioned to you earlier was the queue system, for instanced PvP combat…

Paul Barnett: Where you can join a scenario from anywhere in the world?


The MMO Gamer: Correct.

Paul Barnett: The one that was so good it’s been added to other games? That one? 

 Ohhhhh, I see.

Delmania
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Reply #279 on: May 28, 2009, 04:35:52 AM

The MMO Gamer: Well, Paul, the fact that Blizzard adopted the idea means it's a good idea.  It doesn't mitigate the fact that your implementation of a queue system is bug ridden and en exercise in frustration to use.

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