Bad Groups

[Morat20]

I can't sell khorium for shit on my server.

It's damn expensive on mine. (Also, Rowan's Rifle is going for 1800, which means I'm stuck in hPoS until the xbow drops). Too expensive for me to buy all of it -- and I need tons of it. 8 Khorium cores for the epic flying machine. I think it's TEN (one per bot) for the 10 advanced repair bots for Jeeves.

I'd also like to build the motorcycle, so I'm trying not to spend all my money -- and I had just dropped the 5k for the 300 flying. So selling stacks of Outland ore for people's alts is refilling my coffers, and at least handling some of my khorium needs.

I've got like 2.5k gold to my name, on my main. My alt's are doing well these days, but that long break means I didn't have ages with one or more level 80s to farm gold.

[Shrike]

You know, my 20ish pally is looking more and more likely to be turned into a tank. It seems a forgiving time to learn how to tank, at least. And a forgiving class.

Might wait until I get the BoA stuff for it, though.

This. Do it. I spent a lot of time xp locked in normal dungeons at 78-79 (only leveling I did was in BGs). The experience--and the triumph--were worth it. Very good practice. From 70 to 79 is a great learning experience.  

The BoA stuff is OK, particularly early on (say, to TBC levels). Once you hit Northrend, though, it's all about the blacksmithing armors and quest rewards. Get a cobalt set, and get a tempered saronite set. Enchant and gem. Upgrades will come steadily from dungeon runs. My paladin was def-capped (or close to it) from 71 on, and had 16k hps at 71. She had 31k hps the moment she hit 80 and regeared with titansteel (and had 4pc T9 waiting for her). You probably don't want to spend that kind of time xp locked, but the potential is there.

[WindupAtheist]

I decided I was done gearing once I had all of the current/final crop of battleground shit, and with no gems/enchants or alt characters to spend on, the cash has been piling up. I broke myself buying a motorcycle for 15.5k and I'm back up to 2k or so already.

[Morat20]

I decided I was done gearing once I had all of the current/final crop of battleground shit, and with no gems/enchants or alt characters to spend on, the cash has been piling up. I broke myself buying a motorcycle for 15.5k and I'm back up to 2k or so already.

I can build the motorcycle. I have a habit of never selling currentl-level engineering or mining stuff, so I've got a lot of what I need. However, the rest is going to break me. :)

[Azazel]

Yeah, with the soon-to-come drop in dual-speccing on it's way, I've decided that the mages need to save up for motorcycles.

 

[Morat20]

Yeah, with the soon-to-come drop in dual-speccing on it's way, I've decided that the mages need to save up for motorcycles.

 

They're dropping the price? Good to know -- I was about to buy it on my main. Fuck that then, I'll wait.

[Rendakor]

It's going from 1k to 100.

[Azazel]

Yeah, I already did it on the 2 mages, and was about to drop another 1k for my rogue the very day that someone here mentioned it. Then the lock, and the pally, and so on.... So glad I saw that.

[Morat20]

When does the price drop?

Speaking of groups, though -- I had a GOOD one last night. Fucking perfect tank and healer, and the other two DPS guys were solid. The tank and healer were from the same guild, so I assume they work together a lot. Smoothest damn run I've been on in awhile.

[Rendakor]

Either the patch before Cata, or when Cata ships.

[WoopeeTuralyon]

I saved the day in HHoR yesterday.  . I was loldpsing in my elem spec and the healer got raped by a footman. I managed to finish out the wave healing as elem, then I switched to my resto spec in between waves (barely made it before combat began) and healing through the next two waves and Falric starting with 0 mana. Falric was awful though with only 2 dps. Still, nobody died through the whole series of waves. Of course, it was nice barely having to heal the 6k GS tank.

[Der Helm]

Is it just bad luck or are people in random BC dungeon queues more retarded than in the classic dungeons ? I queue as a tank (ProtPally) and I am pretty sure it is not my fault. 

[Merusk]

It's not just you.  BC dungeons are less forgiving than vanilla dungeons because the Heirloom items, while being more powerful, aren't so on the order of magnitude that they are when compared to vanilla.  Since the BC dungeons weren't a "round 'em up, nuke 'em down" fest you wind up with a lot of wipes due to idiots.

Hell, even with a good group you can get your ass handed to you with heirlooms.  My wife and 3 guildies ran a dungeon last night and the L17 PUG tank thought he could round up all the mobs in the Shadowfang keep's entrance rooms without a problem. 

[Der Helm]

BC dungeons also seem to take much longer than vanilla ones. I might have to quest my way out of Outland after all. I don't like Hellfire Peninsula or that swamp zone the name of which escapes me here at work.

[Rendakor]

Zangarmarsh. I didn't like that zone either, but I love Hellfire.

[Morat20]

Oh, this random had it all. Moronic tank who can't tell the difference between "upper city" and "prison", who liked to pull a lot more than he could handle after the healer goes AFK....and drama over the Bloodrazor drop between two warriors who 'needed it' with the loser demanding the winner give it to him because, and I qupte, "I need it"

[dd0029]

BC dungeons also seem to take much longer than vanilla ones. I might have to quest my way out of Outland after all. I don't like Hellfire Peninsula or that swamp zone the name of which escapes me here at work.

This is AV weekend.  Otherwise known as AV your way out of BC.  Total time played from half way through 59 to 63?  Two hours.  I was 60 for 27 minutes.

[Merusk]

I assume your side wins AV regularly in your BG, yes?

[Soulflame]

Yeah, it's possible to get just about 0 rewards from AV if your side can't accomplish anything.

BC dungeons are long, miserable, trash-filled hellholes that only became easy with T6 gear.  Otherwise, you needed a sharp tank, and cc that could be reapplied at will.  Which pretty much meant mage, sometimes warlock, and that's about it.

[WoopeeTuralyon]

Yeah, it's possible to get just about 0 rewards from AV if your side can't accomplish anything.

BC dungeons are long, miserable, trash-filled hellholes that only became easy with T6 gear.  Otherwise, you needed a sharp tank, and cc that could be reapplied at will.  Which pretty much meant mage, sometimes warlock, and that's about it.

You seem to have confused normal dungeons with heroic ones. With a few exceptions, BC dungeons are not that bad for leveling. And not all heroics were that hard (hello Slave Pens, Ramps, Mech).

[DraconianOne]

BC dungeons also seem to take much longer than vanilla ones. I might have to quest my way out of Outland after all. I don't like Hellfire Peninsula or that swamp zone the name of which escapes me here at work.

I've recently levelled a prot warrior through Outland and from about 62 - 67 I pretty much did dungeons solidly. They didn't strike me as taking that long overall - half an hour tops? I don't know which vanilla ones you're thinking of though - I seem to remember 3 hour WC, ST and Mara runs amongst others. Then again, haven't done them properly for a few years.

[Rendakor]

The Auchindoun (sp?) zones are all pretty unpleasant, even on regular. Not long, but unforgiving if you have a bad tank or healer.

[Zetor]

<insert requisite froth about first Crypts boss vs. healers with not many instant casts here>

Though cataclysm is giving pallies more instant heals, so who knows 

[Morat20]

We had a fucking moron tank last night. First off, me and two guildies decide to run a few heroics before bed because -- for fucking once --Alliance won Wintergrasp. (Technically, I won it. Well, me and another guy. Story below, and counts as a 'moron Horde' moment. We didn't win through skill). All three of us wanted badges and shards, since all three of us have WG stuff we want to buy and we're working on getting the heirloom sets.

So three of us (all three DPS -- hunter, 'lock, boomkin) from the same guild queue up. We get a group, blast through one of the Spider-ones (the one with that burrowing beetle at the end). Requeue, get a group for...fuck, it's the one where you have to shoot the dude out of the sky with the harpoon. Tank and healer pair we get is good, and first thing we mention is "We don't want to skip bosses, because we're here for shards. WG doesn't stay Alliance very long on this server". We get a kk, and then the fucking tank decides to skip the boss that floats around and has a long conversation where you can just, you know, leave the room before she's been told to "kill everyone".

So he tries to continue on, trying to stay in combat so we can't kick his ass out. The healer follows along. They finally drop dead on the flying guy, wherein we manage to kick them once they get back in the instance. The entire fucking time the tank's screaming at us for being assholes because we're back waiting to do the skipped boss, yet he's the one who won't do a three minute boss, won't quit the group, won't let himself get kicked.....

Fucker.

As for Wintergrasp -- it was close to even for once (we had one stack of tenacity that would come and go), and the Horde was less organized than normal. There was the usual stupidity around Sunken Ring, with the Alliance repeatedly trying to send out three or four tanks at a time from Sunken Ring only to run into about 90% of the Horde. Since, for once, the Horde didn't have the numbers edge to both frustrate the Sunken Ring attacks (even in dribbles and drabs) AND roam around repeatedly taking every garage and such and generally being unstoppable on defense, we actually retained the ability to make 8 vehicles at a time. (No, not twelve. Alliance wasn't THAT organized).

I get killed retaking Westpark, and when I'm waiting to rez I notice....someone's bashed through the Broken Temple side. Taken out the outside SW tower, the wall, and is working on the inside. Horde apparently hasn't noticed or hasn't cared. So I move to BT, grab a seige engine and head in there. He's blowing up a tower, so we team up and blow through the wall, drive into the inner courtyard to see...two Horde. The rest are sitting to the east, waiting on the next set of tanks and escorts. We blow through, bash down the door, and I jump out and click the orb. (Do you need to be out of the tank to do that?). Of course, once we hit the keep door the Horde comes running, but they didn't even have time to burn down either of the vehicles.

Seriously. Wintergrasp was one by two people because the Horde didn't fucking notice or didn't care that some guy in a seige tank had systemically demolished the west half of the fortress.

[Lantyssa]

They're probably not used to looking for more than three guys.

[Paelos]

It's the same tactics they used in LOTR to take down Sauron. Who's gonna notice two Hobbits? 

[Dren]

That's how the horde do it on our server.  They don't have near the numbers alliance does, so they just continously hit every surface of the keep they can over and over.  At some point you'll get too much hive mind and EVERYONE will go to one side or the other.  Meanwhile, 2-3 engines blast through the walls uncontested.  We'll literally be obliterating the horde at an outer wall and all of sudden it is over and we lost.  I even look for this tactic so I can call out and I still can't seem to catch it.

If you don't have 10-15 people tearing down engines as they approach the inner wall, game over.  Hot knife through butter comes to mind...

[Morat20]

I swear the best part was right after the "ALLIANCE WINS" message flashes across the screen there was a brief pause, and someone in raid chat says "Wait. Really?"

That's how seldom Alliance wins outside of the 3:00 AM weekday time-span, that the first response is that Blizzard is playing a practical joke.

[Fordel]

Clearly your horde lacks a dedicated cat herder.

[Morat20]

Clearly your horde lacks a dedicated cat herder.

Apparently, the story on WG is pretty simple: Alliance used to own it, 90% of the time. The guy that wrangled them all switched sides, went Horde, and wrangled them. Now Alliance loses 90% of the time because -- and this is very simple -- they keep doing the same thing that always had them winning.

Except that one guy wrangled the Horde into a counter-strategy that works reliably, and involves "beating the crap out of the Alliance at Sunken Ring, because that's where the Alliance goes. Because all they know is "stack tanks at Sunken Ring, attack east wall". Which works poorly when there's no cat wrangler to keep them from lumbering off with less than six tanks, gunners, and escorts. And when there's twice as many horde waiting RIGHT THERE while the rest of the Horde create a rolling zerg moving between eastpark and BT and back.

[Rendakor]

Clearly your horde lacks a dedicated cat herder.

This. All it takes to hold off tactics like that is someone watching both sides and yelling in raid chat "EAST EAST EAST YOU RETARDS EAST".

[Morat20]

Clearly your horde lacks a dedicated cat herder.

This. All it takes to hold off tactics like that is someone watching both sides and yelling in raid chat "EAST EAST EAST YOU RETARDS EAST".

In their defense, they rarely have to. Alliance is predictable as fuck. They'll fight for Sunken Ring. They'll attack from Sunken Ring. If it's 'coordinated' it'll be 6 seiges, mostly with gunners and people riding in them for no fucking reason, and like 10 escorts. 20 horde will ensure that, at best, they lose a single wall before wiping ALliance. After that, it'll be tanks coming in twos while the rest of the Horde keeping blowing shit up so the Alliance is limited to 8 tanks, then 4, then none and everyone's fighting at the landing zone while 24 Catapults try to hit the GY there, as if that toxin does any real damage.

I swear, 90% of the Alliance doesn't seem to know you can ask the spirit healer to move your ass to another Alliance-controlled spot.

Not that it matters. In the end, the problem on Argent Dawn is pretty simple -- 5 stacks of tenacity is the 'norm'. I've seen it go as high as 8, and only rarely do we have parity. Tenacity is a fucking shit solution to the problem. Might work a letter better if it added some CC resist to it.

[Fordel]

I swear, 90% of the Alliance doesn't seem to know you can ask the spirit healer to move your ass to another Alliance-controlled spot.

Most players don't realize that, even ones that have done hundreds of WG games. I have people that I've known in WG since wotlk came out that have been surprised by that fact when I told them.



On my server, everyone 'buys in' on the alliance side, so we won a lot, which attracted even more people to our side that also wanted to win, who were willing to also 'buy in' into our system, which let us win more which made the horde side even more depressing and undermanned and etc..

Circle of Life or whatever.

It isn't just one guy cat-herding anymore, everyone knows the possibilities and situations, people keep tabs on everything, respond to information promptly. It's easy to get to that point when you win all the time. At the start of WotLk, I would have to spend most of a WG typing just to keep everyone informed of who/what/where/how things were going on. Now I don't even have to say a single word, the entire WG scene is self sufficient, one big group think hive mind thing now.

It warms my heart to see people rezzing in the keep automatically check the east walls before reinforcing the west ones. 

[Lantyssa]

I never knew that.  It's not like there's anything that tell you.

[Azazel]

Nor did I. But then again, I don't really bother with WG.

Yeah, it's possible to get just about 0 rewards from AV if your side can't accomplish anything.

I ran an AV with my 65 Pally tonight. Essentially a total waste of 20 minutes. I could have fedexed about 5x the xp I got in that time. I think I'll just continue to run him through Ramparts and Blood Furnace using my wife's Mage. I wonder what else she can solo?