kindle2 - some thoughts on ebook reading

[Numtini]

I found the ipad to be too heavy as a reader. I also by far prefer the eink, but with the Fire you've already gone away from that. In terms of getting books, you can just buy them on amazon and read them in the amazon reader app or you can use Ibooks and the Ibooks app.

[Engels]

You may find this interesting:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2012/04/why-the-new-ipads-retina-display-loses-the-battle-in-the-e-reader-wars.ars

To answer one of your questions, however, you read Amazon kindle books on the iPad, or you use the iTunes e-book store.

Also, the fire has the same display type as the ipad (ipad original and ipad2 that is) so its not really an e-reader. Its an IPS display.

It still does my head in that you can't use wireless without one-click enabled. Have others found this?

[Numtini]

Amazon wants the one click enabled to make buying books seamless and easy. For a regular kindle that kind of makes sense and isn't a big deal, but for a tablet, particularly a cheap tablet than can be a child's first tablet, it is a real issue.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Nook.

Seriously, I haven't run into anything with needing one-click purchases in order to have wifi enabled.  It's comfortable, you can get the Color which is essentially the Tablet with slightly lower hardware.  It's far more affordable than the iPad and is probably a better size for a kid to handle than an iPad.  IMO.  I've had a very enjoyable experience so far with buying from B&N.  You don't have access to the full Android app store, but I don't think you do with the Fire either.  As a plus, if you're really into that sort of thing, you can root the Nook and put whatever flavor of Android on it you like.

[MahrinSkel]

We let our 3 year old play on our Nook.  It's cheap, she can't buy anything on it without our permission, and the only other use it gets put to is as an e-reader when we fly.  I sometimes use it for websurfing, but I have found 7 inches isn't quite big enough and I want to get a 10-inch for that purpose (not to mention that typing a forum response on the soft keyboard is an exercise in frustration).

Combined with a VTech InnoTab as a media player, traveling with her (or waiting for the doctor) is a lot easier.

--Dave

[CmdrSlack]

I just bought my wife the original Kindle for her birthday. We also own an iPad2 (law conference swag > other conference swag), and I could not imagine reading on that beast for as long as I do on her Kindle.

She's actually suggested that she get me my own Kindle for my birthday . . . at $80, it's not a bad idea. Since I already own a tablet, buying a Kindle Fire makes very little sense, even if I got the iPad2 for free. Yeah sure, that conference cost money, but more importantly, it cost my boss money.

[Morat20]

My kid's pretty fond of his Kindle Touch (I think the Touch is a bit of a waste -- I prefer the classic one), but the iPod touch beats it hands down because of text apps.

Of course, that's because he's 15, has a girlfriend, and burned through his phone minutes and messages in nothing flat.

I want an iPad, but even if I get one -- I'd still read on the Kindle. I love books, I love reading, I can see something like four overloaded bookshelves from where I'm sitting. Shoving that all into a light Kindle is the greatest thing since sliced bread. An iPad, to me, is a table tablet, dammit. A thing I can read on, if I can't find my Kindle.

Sorta like my smartphone, to be honest. I prefer the display and feel of a Kindle for reading. I think it's pretty much individual tastes, though.

[Chimpy]

I really like my kindle touch. A lot.

It really is like reading a regular book text wise and as someone that spends about 11 hours a day staring at LCD computer screens for work, it is definitely easy on the eyes.

Still have not bought a book yet. I am all about the free classics.

[CmdrSlack]

Doesn't that involve an Amazon Prime subscription? Or is there some source of public domain works of which I am unaware?

[Morat20]

Doesn't that involve an Amazon Prime subscription? Or is there some source of public domain works of which I am unaware?

If you're a sci-fi and fantasy fan, Baen has a giant library of free stuff. I mean it's very clearly "Read the first book or three of a prolific author, then plunk down tons for their newer ten books" stuff -- but there's a LOT there.

Plus Baen's pricing is a lot cheaper than the shit other publishers are charging. The only books they charge 15 bucks for (collections aside) are advanced reader copies -- you can get some books a month or so ahead of their actual publish date that way. (They're final author proofs or something -- right before the final edit and print stage).

[Chimpy]

Doesn't that involve an Amazon Prime subscription? Or is there some source of public domain works of which I am unaware?

Project Gutenberg, you have to hook the kindle up to your computer to get the files on the kindle but there is tons of stuff on there.

Also, I think anyone can get the $0 books on the kindle store but I have prime so I can't confirm.

[caladein]

Yes, the $0 books on Amazon are free regardless of Prime.  Prime is for the lending library stuff.

[Chimpy]

Yes, the $0 books on Amazon are free regardless of Prime.  Prime is for the lending library stuff.

Which is fucking BALLS. You have to wait 30 days between items. I checked out a book, by the time the month was over, the sequel(s) were no longer available.

[Hawkbit]

We ultimately boxed the kindle fire and shipped it back.  For the time being, we'll just buy her paper books and when I build my next PC this summer I'll give her my old. 

I think we'll revisit the idea in a year or two, when she's got a better grasp on technology and there are more options available to us.  However, in the meantime a free month of Prime is handy. 

[Tmon]

Don't own an ipad, but they sell books in the app store, and there are free kindle, nook and other e-reader apps for it.  I own an android tablet and it works fine as an e-reader using the kindle, nook, and overdrive e-reader apps.  The only real problem with it is that since it's not e-ink it doesn't work very well outside.

[Merusk]

E-ink is awesome and I can't fathom trying to read an LCD device outdoors after having used one for a bit.  I keep hoping they'll find a way to do it in color.

Oh, and count me as one of the folks who only reads free books.  Fuck paying hardcover price for a book available in softcover for $9.99 but not needing the infrastructure to support the physical copy.

[naum]

E-ink is awesome and I can't fathom trying to read an LCD device outdoors after having used one for a bit.  I keep hoping they'll find a way to do it in color.

Oh, and count me as one of the folks who only reads free books.  Fuck paying hardcover price for a book available in softcover for $9.99 but not needing the infrastructure to support the physical copy.

Cut back greatly on Amazon purchases as new release prices are now in $12.99 - $15.99 range for most titles… …even at $9.99, after initial splurging (mostly due to a stockpile of Amazon gift cards), found it hard to justify, especially when a paperback version (of which you actually OWN and can GIVE away to another) is usually available for just a few dollars more (or often enough, for even less than the e-book).

[HaemishM]

This blog post is a good article on WHY the big 6 publishers are charging so damn much for an eBook.

[naum]

This blog post is a good article on WHY the big 6 publishers are charging so damn much for an eBook.

Read that before and that's a great summation post on the state of ebook publishing.

[MahrinSkel]

Amazon is about "disintermediation", they cut out the links between producers and consumers.  In most cases, they are the entire chain and for a lot of physical goods they even cut themselves down to nothing but a payment and listing gateway (producer ships directly to consumer).

They don't try to make their sellers produce cheaper (as, for example, Walmart routinely does) other than by making them compete with other producers of equivalent goods.  And in the case of authors, many of those pressures don't apply (there are equivalencies of genre, but no one other than the author can really produce sequels to earlier works).  And Amazon does not produce anything, they don't capture their suppliers to squeeze out that last margin of profit (as many other retailers both brick and mortar and virtual so).  So why would they do it with authors?

--Dave

[HaemishM]

I don't want to make it seem like Amazon is a white knight in this. Their Kindle Select program for authors rubs me the wrong way. Basically, in exchange for only publishing your eBook on Amazon/Kindle, you get your normal royalties, plus Kindle users can borrow your book for free. You get a payment for the borrowed book, but it's a percentage of the total "borrowed book fund" that Amazon sets aside each month, and the fund varies in size from month to month, so you're never quite sure how much you'll get from each loan. That kind of weird black box accounting doesn't sit well with me, but the program is completely optional so I just haven't joined it.

[Numtini]

The big advantage of Kindle Select is being able to do the free promotions that in theory should get your other non-free items more exposure. One of the best options here being to take an older book that's done its early sales or using a short story or novella. Once the free promos are done, get out of Select.

I don't really have a dog in the agency/wholesale-retail conflict. Amazon is a big scary dog in the room and if anyone thinks we're going to have cheaper books and 70% royalties after they are a complete monopoly, they're crazy. On the other side, how Apple and the publishers thought they were going to get away with walking into a room and setting up a cartel in such an obvious fashion is beyond me.

On the third hand, the number one selling book in the country is completely unedited, barely literate, Twilight fanfic. We're all damned.

[HaemishM]

Yeah, that's what's so funny about this whole thing. Amazon is absolutely kicking EVERYONE'S asses on the whole eBook market. They are the Steam of eBooks, an absolute screaming success because their policies have so far been fairly beneficial to consumers and content producers (unless of course you happen to have been making a killing under the old model). Unfortunately, no one can seem to cut into their growing monopoly because they are too concerned with not pissing off the entrenched industry or cannibalizing their current business model.

And I hate to tell indie bookstores, but their life is about to get INFINITELY WORSE. They are so fucked it's not even funny. Their appeals to the "great tradition of curling up with a book by the fire" are about to go the way of the record (as in vinyl LP) store. Indie stores think they are a niche NOW? When the ereader install base reaches about 10 million or more, fucking forget about it. Indies that want to stay in business better start thinking about some way to leverage in-store Print-on-demand or suck up to Amazon because they are super fucked.

[Numtini]

I've never lamented the end of indie bookstores. I'm middle aged and can think of only two that could compete with a Borders or B&N even in their own genre (and then primarily because of out of print new-old-stock), nevermind Amazon or B&N.com

[Salamok]

The only indie bookstores I ever frequented more than once or twice were the used bookstores.  Unfortunately they are about to be as screwed as everyone else.

Someone needs to come up with a book recycling model where I can take a print book to a local location and pay $1 to have it shredded in exchange for the same book in digital form.

[MuffinMan]

The only indie bookstores I ever frequented more than once or twice were the used bookstores.

You're never in BookPeople? Every couple weeks I do my circle of lunch at Whole Foods, coffee at BookPeople and then I bum around at Waterloo.

[Sky]

Someone needs to come up with a book recycling model where I can take a print book to a local location and pay $1 to have it shredded donate it to the local library in exchange for the same book in digital form.

[Morat20]

The big advantage of Kindle Select is being able to do the free promotions that in theory should get your other non-free items more exposure. One of the best options here being to take an older book that's done its early sales or using a short story or novella. Once the free promos are done, get out of Select.

I don't really have a dog in the agency/wholesale-retail conflict. Amazon is a big scary dog in the room and if anyone thinks we're going to have cheaper books and 70% royalties after they are a complete monopoly, they're crazy. On the other side, how Apple and the publishers thought they were going to get away with walking into a room and setting up a cartel in such an obvious fashion is beyond me.

On the third hand, the number one selling book in the country is completely unedited, barely literate, Twilight fanfic. We're all damned.

Actually, it'll be awhile before Amazon tries to eat it's seed corn like that -- at least until the current CEO is gone. They don't need to raise prices -- they basically get a rake off of every purchase.

Not the stuff they buy from publishers directly -- but independent authors, which are quickly going to become "all authors". Why should Amazon give a crap what you charge for the book you wrote, when they get 30% merely for answering a database query and storing your book on the Cloud -- the Cloud that more than pays for itself?

[HaemishM]

They get 30% PLUS a bandwidth fee (which is minimal really, but still .06 cents a book or something for transferring less than a MB of data ain't bad for paying the bills). Although, if you sell your book for under $2.99, they get 65% plus the bandwidth fee, and if you haven't checked, there's a shitton of .99 cent ebooks out there like my first one, and they are selling an absolute asston of those. I sell easily 3x-5x as many of the .99 cent book as the other one just to get people's beaks wet, and Amazon gets .65 cents off every one.

I literally cannot fathom why an author with any sort of following hasn't dropped traditional publishers and gone eBook/Print-on-demand exclusively. They might sell half as many books and still make more money with a bit more effort.

[dd0029]

Charlie Stross had an interesting post on the topic of Amazon and ebooks. One of the better take aways here was that both sides are businesses in it for the money and authors and readers are there to funnel the money in.

[Numtini]

Good article analysis up until the DRM is dead bit. I just don't think they'll go for that until it's too late. If anything they're retreating on that one, Penguin just pulled out of library distribution because they're afraid of piracy.

[Morat20]

Charlie Stross had an interesting post on the topic of Amazon and ebooks. One of the better take aways here was that both sides are businesses in it for the money and authors and readers are there to funnel the money in.

It's a business. Of course they're in it for the money.

The publisher's problem is that even if they felt Amazon was acting as an effectively monopoly, the fix to that is not to indulge in wide-scale price fixing to break the monopoly -- it'd be to, you know, use all that fucking money to get the DoJ on Amazon's ass.

Amazon isn't Walmart -- they're not squeezing the fuck out of the supply chain and driving other companies out of business by sheer throw weight. They're basically taking a tiny rake from introducing customers to producers  (For their non-cloud stuff) -- which is what they're trying to do to books. Basically be the google of "You like that book? Here's an author you might also like. Feel free to buy his book. We'll take 30% for recommending him".

The DoJ might, if they go after Amazon, break the DRM format to the extent of forcing Amazon to allow other readers and app to view the books. Basically a Microsoft/IE situation.

[Quinton]

Good article analysis up until the DRM is dead bit. I just don't think they'll go for that until it's too late. If anything they're retreating on that one, Penguin just pulled out of library distribution because they're afraid of piracy.

At some point they may not have any choice.  Similar thing happened with music -- the publishers insisted on DRM and gave Apple a massive lock-in for iTunes/iPod.  They ended up having to allow non-DRM options to allow smaller competitors to enter the space (Amazon and other device vendors, for instance).

[HaemishM]

I think he's right about losing the DRM being the only option the pubs have left. The Kindle's walled garden is what has allowed it to be such a fast-growing platform so quickly. And the publishers thinking that piracy was so important has, just like the music industry, hurt their ability to be all things to all consumers. DRM was a honey trap for Amazon to sell people on the Kindle.

[Quinton]

Kindle Paperwhite Quick Review - no-ads, wifi version

The frontlight is definitely nice in low light situations, but there is some shadow effect near the bezel at certain angles and a sort of ghosty blur along the bottom.  Better light distribution than many frontlight solutions I've seen, but not perfect.

I miss the physical next/prev page buttons.  Touch works okay for page turning, but feel especially laggy for paging through your book list and I think the physical buttons were nicer for that.  The touch based keyboard is a big improvement over the dpad driven keypad from the third generation Kindle, though.

Basic navigation feels a little slower without dedicated home, back, and menu buttons -- I have to tap the top edge of the page, wait for the menu bar to draw, then tap an icon to navigate, and while the e-ink display refreshes faster than the previous generation it is still not instant and still flashes a bit when drawing.

The higher density display and additional font options are nice.

Build quality may be slightly better than third generation Kindle.  Still very solid, and just slightly heavier.  I think the matte black looks a little nicer to me than the two-tone gray/silver, and especially appreciate that all the various consumer electronics logos are very very subdued on the back.  The back seems to pick up fingerprints much more easily than the previous generation.